Michelle Sutter Interview with Arnold Donald

Glad to be with you, Michelle. Thank you for the opportunity.

Well, first of all, if you allow me, I don't quite think that was my quote. I always said we always knew there was a light at the end of the tunnel, we just didn't know how long the tunnel was. And now that tunnel has gotten a lot shorter because here we are in Seattle for this interview. We have two ships about to set sail this weekend: the ship we're sitting on, Holland America's New Amsterdam, Majestic Princess for Princess Cruises, and then on Tuesday, the Carnival Miracle. So we'll have almost 6,000 guests embarking this weekend, finally getting guest operations back up and running. We couldn't be more excited. And of course, we have three ships currently sailing our Carnival brand, one out of Miami and two out of Galveston. And then we have a fourth, Carnival Mardi Gras, the new icon for Carnival, about to set sail out of Port Canaveral. So we're very excited. We're right at the light. The light won't be fully on us until we have the full fleet globally sailing, filled with guests having joyous vacations.

Oh wow, what brings me joy is people. You know, I love people, and that's why I love this business. This business is all about human spirit. We have beautiful ships, and they are great vessels and phenomenal feats of engineering and aesthetic beauty and so on, but what really makes it all work is the crew and the people that support the crew, and all the folks in the places we go in the destinations, and all the people that support the cruise industry. And it's the human spirit level, and of course the guests, that really is the drive. So I enjoy being with people. So when you're in a pandemic and you're on lockdown, that's a little more difficult than normal. Now fortunately for me, I spent a lot of time in Miami, and Miami was a little more open than a lot of places. But I was very careful, I respected all the protocols, but also, you know, we were able to stay connected a little bit through Zoom and whatnot. So now is the time, this is just fantastic.

Yeah, you guys are applauding. I know it's not just for me, it's for the thrill of being back at work and you're ready to just bring joyous vacation experiences to everyone. And I want you to know that in my heart, I am applauding you like crazy because you have made everything possible.

Then people would also often ask me what else do I do. So I do watch Netflix, and right now I'm watching a series for those that might be interested called Ertugrul. And it's about a mid-1200s figure given kind of credit for catalyzing the formation of the Ottoman Empire. The only problem with this series is it's five seasons. In the first season, each episode is about 42 to 45 minutes. The first season is 76 episodes, so it may take me a while to get through it.

Wow, these are good questions. Look, I'll say what probably most people would say is a tie between my mom and my dad. And so they were hard-working people. They grew up in rural Louisiana. My dad grew up at a time when, you know, segregation was really the state of affairs. I mean, he grew up, he was born in 1914, and so he lived a challenging life for a long time. But he and my mom, who also had a lot of challenges, made sure that they took care of us. And additionally, there's five of us, and I'm the baby, you gotta love me. But they also had 27 foster kids over time that they took care of. I think they had the biggest influence on me. Outside of family, I read a lot, and I used to, now I just read business stuff, but I read a lot as a young child. And so historical figures, or other people's interpretations of those historical figures, had a big influence on me. You know, people like Frederick Douglass, Booker T. Washington, but also people like John F. Kennedy and Robert Kennedy and so on. So those were big influences in my life.

On leadership, I don't read a lot on leadership. You know, I had a, you know, kind of standby mantra which says, if you can read it in a book, it's probably too late already, that has moved on. And my biggest example of that was Dress for Success. Now you're too young to know about this book, but back in the 1980s there was a book that came out called Dress for Success, and it told you how to dress to be successful in any industry and so on. And by the time it was written, fashions had changed and people were not, you know, doing it anymore. But I think on leadership books overall, if you want to think more broadly on leadership, anything that gives you the following perspectives: one, listen. So right now I'm doing a lot of talking because you're asking me questions, but the reality is if you listen to the universe, it will reveal itself to you and it will guide you and tell you what you need to do. The second thing is to pursue your passion. If you, whatever your passion is, if you don't know what it is, you know, keep exploring until you identify, because if you're pursuing your passion, you're going to run into a lot of obstacles, but those obstacles will just be obstacles. If you're doing things you don't have a passion for, those obstacles will shut you down because you won't have the energy or the passion, you know, to overcome them. And then the third thing is enjoy the journey. You know, everybody thinks about the end goal or the end game, and you should have a target and something you want to achieve, but enjoy it along the way and learn to celebrate all the little victories. So anything that guides you to that, because if you listen, the people you want to follow you, you will understand what their needs are, what their goals and aspirations are, and if you connect with that and you're serving their needs and their aspirations, then you have an opportunity to be a good leader.

Honestly, during this particular pandemic, there were a couple of things that happened in our industry. One, in the very beginning when people were very afraid of the virus, there were some quarters that said you should not have anyone who is Chinese on your ship. And I thought that that was an unthinkable thing to say. That is wrong to paint with a broad brush anyone, anytime. And so to say you shouldn't have people from, you know, the province that is shut down, and some of that makes sense, okay, because of the risk of health and safety, but to do a broad brush thing like that is absurd. So that was one. A second one was people wanted to just try to find a way to compromise with regulatory bodies. And in the end, we have to compromise, and I'm very willing to compromise, but I think it's very important you stand for what you believe is right based on sound advice from experts. I'm not a medical expert, but we have medical experts from around the world that have given us advice. And so, you know, we stand for safe crew, similar to what you do, the rest of the travel and leisure sector. And there are times where people would say, well, let's not worry about that. But no, if you ignore that, then it leads to unintended consequences. It restricts opportunity for people to have jobs, it restricts opportunities for people to engage in the spirit of travel. And so those are two little examples, but there are many, many others that I could give you.

The best advice I was ever given, I guess, is the listen advice. It came at a very early age where my mama would say, 'So you better listen,' or, you know, but it also came later in more professional environments where they said, 'Look, even the person that you think has the least, you're going to get the least support from, who least has your best interests at heart, if you meet with that person and genuinely try to understand what is it that's triggering those feelings in that person about you, you can learn from that.' And what you may learn is you don't want to change what you're doing, but you may learn that there are some things you want to change. And so I think the best advice I've been given is to learn to listen.

Wow. Well, look, in the context of this, I want to be remembered for helping Carnival be viewed by its employees as a great place to work, where they feel that they had every opportunity to achieve their dreams, every opportunity to accumulate wealth for themselves and their family, that their contributions were recognized and rewarded, and that they feel it's absolutely the best company on the face of the planet. If employees feel that way, the following things would have happened: we would have honored our commitment for compliance, environmental protection, health, safety, and well-being of everyone, the guests who we serve on our ships, the people in the communities that we touch who we also serve, and our shoreside and shipboard personnel. We would have honored our aspiration to provide joyful vacations, that we exceed guest expectations all the time. We would have honored our commitment to deliver extraordinary shareholder returns and to be a tremendous global corporate citizen, you know, elevating the standards of social justice and contributing in a broader way to the world at large, including sustainability and addressing the challenges of climate change, etc. Because if our employees feel that way about our company, all those things would be accomplished. And if I, in some small way, have contributed to that, then I feel like I've accomplished something. And on a personal level, that my grandkids love me.

Thank you. Thank you, Michelle. Thank you.