CEOInterviews.AILeadership Live With David Rubenstein: Qualcomm CEO Steven Mollenkopf

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David Rubenstein0:01

Hello, this is David Rubenstein. Leadership Live is a show where I talk to CEOs about how it is to manage their companies through the COVID-19 crisis. Many of the people are CEOs who have led their company through many crises, but this is different than almost anything any of them have experienced. So we thought it'd be interesting to hear from these CEOs how they're dealing with this crisis. And today my special guest is Steve Mollenkopf. Steve, thank you very much for joining us. Steve is the CEO of Qualcomm, which is a leading provider of technology for cell phones and particularly smartphones. Steve has the advantage of coming from my hometown of Baltimore, but he now lives on the West Coast where the company is based in San Diego. He's a graduate of Virginia Tech and the University of Michigan. He went to Qualcomm initially right out of the University of Michigan in 1994, and he's been the CEO for six years now, became CEO in 2014. Previously, he served for three years as the President and Chief Operating Officer. Steve, thank you very much for joining us.

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Steven Mollenkopf1:02

David, thank you very much for having me.

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David Rubenstein1:04

So Steve, many people say that technology companies haven't been as hard-hit as, let's say, tourism companies, hotel companies, restaurants. Is that true? Your company's a technology company. Has it been hard-hit or not hard-hit?

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Steven Mollenkopf1:21

Well, I think everybody's been hit at a human level, of course, but I think we've been lucky. We're definitely more toward the category of being hit less compared to others. I would say our operations, the way in which we've been able to do things, we've been able to maintain. Our end markets are still sensitive to people being out and being able to go to stores and buy phones, with one exception, which is a lot of people buy their phones online. So we straddle the line a little bit, probably closer toward not being hit, and certainly been very lucky in the way in which the company's been able to operate underneath of this pandemic.

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David Rubenstein1:56

Now let's talk about what Qualcomm is for those people that might not be tech aficionados or don't really know what's in their cell phone. So what does Qualcomm actually do? Tell us what it does.

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Steven Mollenkopf2:07

Sure. So we consider ourselves the number one wireless innovator in the world. What that really means is somebody has to go through and figure out how all these cell phone networks are going to work. You need to figure out how to align the entire industry so you can make a phone call anywhere you want. We do that through the standards bodies, but more importantly, we invent the fundamental technologies that are underneath of all those cellular networks, and then we figure out a way so that everybody can get access to it. And it creates kind of the ecosystem of cellular. And we've done that for 3G, we've done that for 4G, and now we're in the process of doing that for 5G. And you know, it's a really interesting company in the sense that we have the ability to touch many different industries. First the cell phone industry, but now almost every industry is going to be impacted in some way by being connected.

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David Rubenstein2:58

So you have how many employees total?

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Steven Mollenkopf3:00

About 37,000.

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David Rubenstein3:02

37,000. And your headquarters in San Diego, but are most of your employees elsewhere or are they based in San Diego?

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Steven Mollenkopf3:08

We have about 14,000 in San Diego. We have some in the Bay Area, some in India and other places, but very highly concentrated in engineering. And I think we have kind of large development centers that we use.

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David Rubenstein3:23

So I have here my smartphone that I use and now find indispensable. It's hard to believe that I lived most of my life without a smartphone. Now I can't live anything at all without my smartphone. So how many smartphones are there in the world today, would you say?

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Steven Mollenkopf3:37

I think the number I always refer to, but it's about 1.6 billion is sort of a way to think about it per year are sold. So it's a tremendous number.

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David Rubenstein3:46

All right. If you have a smartphone, you have some piece of Qualcomm technology in it, more or less, correct?

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Steven Mollenkopf3:54

And in fact, every smartphone that's sold, in fact every phone that's sold, every cell phone that's sold uses Qualcomm technology in some way. And probably more so, all of the technologies that were required to figure out fundamentally kind of how do you get a smartphone to work, how do you even get streaming video to work over a cell phone channel, a company had to figure out ahead how to do that invention. Well, Qualcomm did a lot of that. So a lot of people don't realize this, but in addition to cell phones, we have a very strong IP position because we're one of the early inventors of streaming video codecs. So the fact that we're watching each other today is actually due to Qualcomm in addition to the cell phone fees.

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David Rubenstein4:36

So when the COVID-19 crisis happened first in China, the Chinese economy shut down a bit. And since a lot of people in China are buying smartphones and also they are producing things that you might use for cell phones that are bought in the United States, did that hurt your company, the fact that China was sort of shut down a bit?

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Steven Mollenkopf4:57

It did in the first quarter. For the March quarter, we saw a pretty substantial drop in the China market. It dropped, you know, in the month of February it really dropped pretty significantly. But what was surprising, and I think a lot of people when I tell them about it they forget this, it actually rebounded pretty quickly as well. It took about five weeks for it to correct itself and get back to a level of selling that's not too different from what it was a year ago. And in the process of doing that, it actually transitioned more of the phones as a percentage to 5G. So you know, that's really the only data that we have in terms of how the consumer, at least in the cell phone space, looks at this whole crisis. Now the China market's a little bit different because the way it sells, it has a lot of online sales, but that was reasonably good data.

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David Rubenstein5:53

So your business, your company manufactures, designs new chips for cell phones like this, but you also, even if you don't design the chip that's used, you get some kind of royalty for something you've intellectually decided or developed years ago. Is that right?

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Steven Mollenkopf6:06

That's correct. For really the patents that embody all the fundamental technology that it takes just to even have a cell phone.

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David Rubenstein6:14

Right. So Apple was disputing with you whether they should be paying this royalty. Ultimately it got resolved on the courthouse steps, is that right?

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Steven Mollenkopf6:21

More or less correct, yeah.

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David Rubenstein6:26

Okay. So now you and Apple are good partners and everything, all right?

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Steven Mollenkopf6:28

You know, the discussion is really about products and how do we launch products as fast as possible. It's much more natural.

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David Rubenstein6:35

Of all the people that are producing smartphones in the world now, is there anybody that's not using your technology?

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Steven Mollenkopf6:41

Oh yeah, Huawei doesn't use it. There are certain phones from certain companies. It's a very competitive market in terms of others.

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David Rubenstein6:48

They use your technology and don't pay you for it, or they have some other technology?

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Steven Mollenkopf6:52

Well, there's really two. Anybody who uses a cell phone uses our technology and they're supposed to pay a license, and almost all of them do. We actually have that done except for one big licensee, which is Huawei. And then we sell chips as well, but not to everyone.

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David Rubenstein7:13

So tell me, what is 2G? What was 3G? What was 4G?

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Steven Mollenkopf7:17

2G was really about analog cellular and just being able to make a phone call in the first place.

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David Rubenstein7:24

All right. 3G?

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Steven Mollenkopf7:25

3G is about getting much more capacity, meaning the ability to make many, many phone calls, so much so that you can actually economically give a cell phone to everyone for voice and a little bit of data, let's say.

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David Rubenstein7:38

And 4G?

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Steven Mollenkopf7:40

4G is a computer in your pocket. That's the smartphone. A lot of technology to enable that.

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David Rubenstein7:46

All right. So I'm very happy with my 4G phone. It took me a while to figure out how to do it. I'm a last adopter. I usually take a long time to learn how to get these. Now I know how to use this. Why do I need to learn how to use a 5G? Why is my life going to be better if I have 5G?

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Steven Mollenkopf7:59

Well, from a cell phone perspective, you'll see the ability to have more of what you already like, which is you'll have higher speeds, you'll have more capacity. But 5G, the new piece about 5G that is very exciting is it's for a lot of other industries now can take advantage of cellular technology. And one of the ironies of the whole pandemic is that we all now know the importance of having, you know, my enterprise, the business is now connected. It has to be extended to where you live at home. Telemedicine, telehealth, these are all technologies or use cases that now everybody knows are important, and 5G enables almost all of them.

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David Rubenstein8:46

Okay. Let's suppose you've convinced me that I should be happy if I had 5G rather than 4G. But I read that the United States, we don't have the infrastructure for 5G, and that people in China or in Europe are ahead of us. How can that be, that they are so far ahead of us that we don't really have 5G right now in the United States?

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Steven Mollenkopf9:02

Well, we do have deployments. When people talk about that, what they're really saying is that there is no domestic infrastructure provider of the equipment, you know, a manufacturer of the equipment that produces the network side of 5G to the equivalent of a Nokia or an Ericsson. There's no domestic company that's on that side in the United States. But that's different from saying Verizon, T-Mobile, or AT&T. They definitely have the ability to deploy 5G and are doing it very aggressively.

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David Rubenstein9:36

Well, why is it that no domestic company filled the void of producing this infrastructure equipment? Why was that?

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Steven Mollenkopf9:45

Well, I think if you look over the last ten years, a lot of the infrastructure providers that would classically have been part of the Western ecosystem really consolidated into a small number. In fact, many of them sold or merged into each other. And so now you really just have Ericsson and Nokia. Now there will be a change in that market when things go virtualized, which essentially means the IT technology that you have in your, you know, your chief information officer, that ecosystem of providers will be able to produce equipment as well. But it'll take a little bit of time. So that market will change a bit, but it really has to do with some of the moves that happened over the last 10 years.

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David Rubenstein10:25

I see. So the U.S.-China relationship is always complicated. Any time in the history of the world when you've had two major economies, they always spar a bit. And now we thought for a while we had resolved a lot of that with our trade agreement, but now some people are blaming China for the COVID-19 problems around the world. In the United States, do you expect that the problems that will probably arise in the political campaign and so forth between the United States and China will impact your business?

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Steven Mollenkopf10:53

Well, I would say it's too early to tell, but we have not seen that so far. If you look at our history with China, and we have a lot of history with China, me in particular over the last seven years or so, essentially what's happened is although there's a lot of rhetoric and political rhetoric, on the ground you see a lot of cooperation at the kind of technology ecosystem that we play in. So essentially, Chinese partners, a lot of big Chinese partners for us that are handset vendors, they have international businesses that we're helpful in establishing. We, along with Huawei, even though there's a lot of rhetoric east-west, we actually participate in the international standards bodies to make sure that 5G happens and it happens across the world in a big way. So essentially, underneath all of the rhetoric, there's still a tremendous amount of cooperation and stability in the business.

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David Rubenstein11:50

So you have said at one point you thought there'd be 200 million, I think, 5G telephones sold in the United States this year. You still believe that will be possible now with the COVID-19 crisis?

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Steven Mollenkopf12:00

We do. In fact, we reaffirmed that on our earnings recently.

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David Rubenstein12:06

Okay. So let's suppose Apple is producing, I believe, a 5G phone. You must have technology in it. It's supposed to cost, I don't know, $1,000 or maybe a little bit more. You think after COVID-19, with the economy going down a bit, people will spend more than a thousand dollars for a new 5G smartphone?

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Steven Mollenkopf12:27

Well, I tell you what, what you tend to see is really two things. At the beginning of a ramp of technology, like when we saw this at 4G, we'll see this again with 5G. You see at the beginning a fairly big uptick at the higher prices, which tend to be a little bit less price-sensitive. You tend to see subsidies from the carriers to make sure that they can deploy it because there's an advantage for them to deploy it. But probably more importantly, you're seeing a big, obviously, growth in the scale of the handsets worldwide with 5G, even more so than you saw with 4G. For example, the first year of 4G, you didn't see as many phones launched and you didn't see them launch across so many price tiers. You actually see a faster penetration through the lower price tiers with 5G. And you know, that's a good thing and it always happens and it's happening quickly with 5G, and we're happy to be part of it.

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David Rubenstein13:22

Okay. Let me ask you, I assume since you have your technology in everybody's smartphones, you have to carry around lots of different smartphones so you can show that you like all of your customers. So one day you use an Apple, another day a Samsung, or how do you tell people which one you use?

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Steven Mollenkopf13:36

I do that, and I often times get in trouble for being in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong phone.

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David Rubenstein13:46

So with respect to the Apple's 5G phone, is that now available or it's not yet available?

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Steven Mollenkopf13:51

Well, it's not yet available. And I'll be honest, I never talk about a customer's product plans, even if I knew about them.

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David Rubenstein13:58

Okay. So let's talk about your own company's plans. When the COVID-19 crisis hit, you had 14,000 people in San Diego and, you know, another 23,000 elsewhere. Did you tell them all to work from home? And where are they working from?

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Steven Mollenkopf14:15

Well, we had them really spread across the world. We have about five to seven percent of the company comes in at any given day, so the rest of them are working from home. We made that decision in early March. And you may know in China we actually made that decision earlier, in fact, a decision was made for us earlier. And it's gone reasonably well. I mean, we've been pleased with the way it went. Now, it went that way because we planned for it well and we also got lucky a little bit on the timing, quite frankly. But you know, we've been pleased with how it's worked so far.

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David Rubenstein14:55

Well, there is a theory that technology companies should be able to adapt to this COVID-19 environment better than non-technology companies do. You think that's true?

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Steven Mollenkopf15:04

I do. Particularly for some of us who, I would say, we eat our own dog food, essentially, which is we use the technology that we produce earlier than perhaps the rest of the economy. And so therefore you might be more prepared for a situation like we saw. So for example, when we went to work from home, the biggest concern was not that we... it was really would the network hold up instead of I wonder if we have everything we need. And you know, the IT team did a great job and we benefited.

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David Rubenstein15:39

So now you have your 14,000 people in San Diego. Some of them might live near the beach, some of them might be in really attractive areas. So they really want to come back to an office when you can come back, or do you think they're just kind of more work from home and you actually need all the office space you now have?

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Steven Mollenkopf15:54

Yeah, you know, here's how we're thinking about that, which is there'll probably be kind of a bimodal distribution. For example, you'll have people that we need to come in and they're going to want us to bring the smallest number of people we need back at any given time so they feel as safe as possible. That's really our top priority. Obviously, there'll be a second group that really could be very successful for a long time at home that I think want to know how do they plan for childcare, how do they figure out how to go through the entire summer, and we'll give them that certainty. And then I think at the end of all this, people are going to look and say what did we learn? And I think they're going to learn that not everyone needs to come into the office. And I think it will have an impact on how people plan facilities, the way that people work. The irony will be we will use more of the technology that we create and we'll probably have less people on site any given day. But you know, we're going to all learn as we go through this summer really what we need.

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David Rubenstein16:58

So when people do come back to the office, will you have them wear masks if you have enough masks? And it's hard to get masks.

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Steven Mollenkopf17:04

We do. In fact, I would say everybody, we're in pretty good shape for things like that. I mean, when we talk to the employee base, most of what they want to see is they want to make sure things are cleaned properly and that we bring back just the right amount of people. And so I would say testing, things like masks and all that, we are not tripping on that as the big issue right now. What we're really doing is we're saying we're productive, we can come back very gradually, which I think is the right thing for our company, part of the right thing for the communities that we live in as well.

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David Rubenstein17:43

Oh, have you thought of building any smart masks using your technology for smart... you haven't done that yet, right?

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Steven Mollenkopf17:49

We haven't, but we take it... smart thermometers, smart doors, no-touch locks, all of that stuff is going to be the way that people are going to feel comfortable about coming back.

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David Rubenstein18:00

And do you think that you actually will bring back everybody eventually? In other words, some companies are thinking they don't have to need as many employees as they now have. You have any thoughts on that?

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Steven Mollenkopf18:08

Well, we think we're going to continue to grow in the amount of employees that we need because the technologies, we still have a lot of confidence in that they're going to be meaningful in the market. But the way we work, we may have more people out of the office but still productive remotely. But I think that's going to be the way a lot of the tech companies work.

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David Rubenstein18:29

How do you manage your team now? You have presumably a number of people report directly to you. You talk to them every day. You used to meet with them every day, maybe, or regularly. How do you deal with running the company now?

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Steven Mollenkopf18:40

I would say by and large, we communicated electronically in the past just because we've been spread around the globe, either talking, we spent a lot of time traveling and being separate from each other. So we had already built the culture that we didn't need to be in the same place. So we had the tools in case. What we did do is we've all used videoconference more. We're probably more efficient at meetings. We have less meetings. It's one of the reasons productivity is probably going up a little bit, quite frankly. And you know, we tend to use cell phones a lot and it's gone reasonably smoothly. I mean, it's been amazing.

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David Rubenstein19:18

So what would you say has been the biggest surprise to you from this whole crisis, the way you've had to manage your company?

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Steven Mollenkopf19:25

Really the psyche of the employee base. So how do you keep people... there's not a lot of uncertainty as to what you need to do. You need to make sure you have financial stability, your balance sheet, and everybody did a stress test. And you know, those of us who are in a position where they don't have to worry about that, then the next one is, hey, you know, are we working on the right things when we get out of this situation? Check. And then the question is, okay, let's make sure everyone understands that in the employment. So it's about communication, it's about being visible. But how do you do that when you can't physically see people? So we've really focused on that piece of it. It's my biggest concern was and continues to be how do you keep the culture, how do you keep the psyche of people, how do you make sure they're kind of mentally able to get through this crisis. Because a lot of the fundamentals are known and we know what to do, we just need to get through it.

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David Rubenstein20:19

So what lessons would you say you've learned that you think are valuable? If you were going to teach a course at a business school tomorrow and say here's the lessons you've learned, what would the two or three most important lessons be so far?

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Steven Mollenkopf20:31

First one is the one I think everyone says, which is you have to communicate more, which is obvious. And for some of us, it's not the most natural approach, but you need to do it more. The other thing that I would say that I've learned is in a lot of cases, it's the support structure or the administrative functions that you don't celebrate every day. In our company, we celebrate engineering or we celebrate patents being issued and we spend a lot of time with that. But you know what made us successful here was HR and the IT group and all of the time that you've invested in that was really for the two or three days when you had to make sure the network worked or the culture that you've created for 30 years and built on the back of a lot of people. That's what shines in an environment like this, and it's too late to make it when you have to get it.

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David Rubenstein21:25

So some companies have said in light of the terrible problems that some people are facing, they're out of work and so forth, there's a need for food. That some companies have either made donations in their various local areas or charitable things they've asked their employees to do. What has Qualcomm done in this area?

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Steven Mollenkopf21:40

We've done similar things as well. And in fact, we've done it all around the world. We have operations in Italy, of course, hit very, very hard. We did things in China, we've done things in India, we've done things here in San Diego. And I'd say focused on really two areas: one, how to help the healthcare providers on the frontline. Also, many small companies, as everyone knows, have been impacted, trying to help them out just on basic how do you get through the next month or two months in terms of just food and just small business assistance. We've also given in-kind donations. So big issue in San Diego, how does everyone get access to the internet for education at home when not everyone has a laptop? So we donated many, many laptops and did the same thing to senior places as well as universities, but excuse me, as hospitals. But the issue, as you know, is so great. I mean, the stimulus and the assistance that's required, it really has to be a government-led issue.

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David Rubenstein22:42

So in your own case, right now you're in your office in San Diego for this interview, but are you working out of your home a fair bit or are you going back and forth? How are you working?

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Steven Mollenkopf22:50

I'm working almost entirely out of my home. And everyone comments about how exhausting it is because everyone's available all the time. And you know, everyone's available all the time, so I think we all seem to be working longer and certainly spending more time talking to each other on video than we've ever done before. But by and large, it's been a good experience underneath of a very, you know, very difficult human situation.

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David Rubenstein23:16

So you have two college-age daughters. Are they happy to be home with their family?

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Steven Mollenkopf23:21

Quite frankly, I doubt it. I think they were enjoying the path to independence and we, like everyone else, picked them up and put them back in their high school experience. And you know, I look forward to them getting back to that. But to be honest, it was for mom and dad, the people that owned and run the dorm, now they're pretty happy to have the new students in town.

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David Rubenstein23:50

So you've managed through a lot of crises in your days at Qualcomm. So let's say 9/11, what happened? How did Qualcomm get affected by 9/11?

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Steven Mollenkopf23:58

Well, I mean, for us as a company, it was less impactful. Actually, I was traveling to Europe at the time. And it was really about the shock of getting everyone to understand how we're going to operate. But it was really for us was not a huge issue.

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David Rubenstein24:17

What about the financial crisis of 2007 and '08? How did that impact you?

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Steven Mollenkopf24:21

It impacted our financials, but quite frankly, what we did was we invested in a lot of technologies that were the foundation for the company for ten years, for the decade after that. So what we decided to do was how do we make sure that we are prepared to come out of this financial crisis strong. And so we invested in LTE, we invested in a lot of smartphone technologies which we've relied on ever since.

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David Rubenstein24:49

So this crisis, you would compare this crisis as being more significant than the other ones, but you had come through in pretty good shape, right?

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Steven Mollenkopf24:57

Yes. And I would say this is an unusual one from our perspective, which is the financial crisis did not prove to the world that the technologies that we're working on are going to be very meaningful. Whereas this crisis, although terrible for the health of the planet, really everyone is now over the last eight weeks received, you know, they've all said, okay, I'll tell you what, I do believe I'm going to be on video calls, I do believe the internet's very important, and I know that I need more connected healthcare and the ability to educate from home. So essentially, you now have the proof point for all the technologies that 5G enables. And so for us, we look at it and we say once again, we have to be prepared for the rebound. And that's what the stress is.

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David Rubenstein25:45

You had almost one existential crisis in effect, somebody tried to take you over a while ago, Broadcom. That went away. And I assume you don't expect anybody to try to take you over again anytime soon?

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Steven Mollenkopf25:58

That's not what we're thinking about now.

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David Rubenstein26:03

But you were also trying to make an acquisition of NXP, another company based in Europe. Are you looking at other big acquisitions now, or you're happy with where you are now generally?

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Steven Mollenkopf26:11

Well, I think we're pleased to have the balance sheet that gives us strategic flexibility, including the ability to take advantage of some opportunities. And I think like anyone, you know, we look at the world and we're saying, well, we have a great roadmap of technologies. Is there a way to accelerate that? So I think everyone's first priority is get through this, make sure the company gets through it. But I think there's going to be some opportunity on the other side. And if you have the balance sheet to do that, like we do, that's a good thing.

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David Rubenstein26:44

So is there anything you wish you had done during this crisis you haven't yet done or are planning to do?

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Steven Mollenkopf26:51

You know, this crisis to me has really been more about managing the psyche of the organization versus figuring out what to do. And I think, you know, fingers crossed, I feel like we've been in a pretty good situation so far. Now we're all in the adrenaline phase where it feels like we can do anything for as long as we want and be okay. But I think that's going to wear off. And so now the question is sort of how do we work long-term when we still have to do the right things for the pandemic, but the adrenaline's not there.

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David Rubenstein27:31

Let me ask you, as a person who knows a lot about cell phones, you ever find you can't get something done that you want on your cell phone and you have to go to tech support? I mean, if you're the CEO of Qualcomm, is that embarrassing to go to tech support to get your phone fixed, or you can fix it yourself?

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Steven Mollenkopf27:46

Typically I can fix it myself. But I also, because I have so many phones, if one isn't doing what I want it to do, I kind of go to the other one.

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David Rubenstein27:59

Sort of like having a pack of dogs or something, you can even rotate it around. I assume you would recommend that everybody have several cell phones that are smartphones, right?

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Steven Mollenkopf28:07

I do. I think as many as you can carry.

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David Rubenstein28:12

So if I had some extra money and I wanted to buy stock in a telecommunications technology sector, why should I buy Qualcomm stock? Why is it not overpriced right now?

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Steven Mollenkopf28:22

Well, I think for us, we're really on the front end of the 5G opportunity. And one of the things that we saw right before the COVID situation was some validation in the long-term model for the company. So if you looked at the type of devices that we're able to sell in there, which really have shown up in terms of the pricing that we get for our chips and also the stability that we've been able to provide to our licensing business, we feel like we're on the front end of what is going to be, you know, pretty interesting opportunity as everything goes to 5G and is connected. So we feel like we're in a good spot and hopefully we can compete for that investment dollar.

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David Rubenstein29:04

So I'm going to go out and try to buy a 5G phone as soon as I can. And what do you think is going to make me the happiest that I went owning it? What can I do, the one thing that I can do? I'm not a big tech person, so is there one thing that somebody that's not that technologically proficient can get out of a 5G phone that I can't get out of this phone?

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Steven Mollenkopf29:25

You know what you're going to see is you're going to be able to do more of the things that you like about it. So you know, it's a constant drumbeat, more and more features get added in there. And on the phone space, you're not going to see this massive before-after. You're going to see more and more of what you need. But what's interesting is underneath of that, the operator can provide you that at a lower price point and they can provide more people that experience. And that's the capacity benefits and the speed and all of that is already proven in the market as being attractive. So that'll be a great thing for phones, but it's the new industries that really grow the funnel.

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David Rubenstein30:03

All right. I'm going to get a 5G phone and see if I like it. And if I don't, I'll call you up.

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Steven Mollenkopf30:07

Okay, sounds good.

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David Rubenstein30:10

Thanks very much, Steve, for giving us such insights. And congratulations on what you've done at Qualcomm.

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Steven Mollenkopf30:14

Great. Thank you very much.

Leadership Live With David Rubenstein: Qualcomm CEO Steven Mollenkopf

About Steven Mollenkopf