Former Chairman & Chief Executive Officer, Wynn Resorts
Steve Wynn at The Golden Nugget interviewed by West57 - TheLasVegasBook
Meredith Viera, on behalf of West57, in an exclusive sit-down with the rising star in the Las Vegas of the 1970s, Steve Wynn. A wonderful documentary (footage reproduced by us, rights owned by Wazee Digital) that really deserves your attention. Also featuring in the spectacle is the Nevada Banker, Parry Thomas, who not only mentored Wynn, but moreover is behind the financial rescuing of Las Vegas in the 1960s.
About Stephen Wynn
Steve Wynn, the former chairman and CEO of Wynn Resorts, has spoken extensively about his creative process in developing Las Vegas resorts, emphasizing that a strong idea must precede any physical construction. In a 2005 Milken Institute talk, he described how he and his team spent 30 months working six days a week on the design of a new hotel, stating that "first an idea and then a building" is essential for any institution with lasting vitality. He also discussed the importance of execution, noting that while ideas can be perfect, "execution is another story" where compromise sets in. Wynn has been outspoken on political and economic issues. In 2016, he described himself as a registered Democrat who has supported both parties, and said he would "tend to vote based upon the Supreme Court possibilities." He criticized the Obama administration's regulatory approach, stating in a 2011 earnings call that "the Democratic agenda of spend and bribed the public, has bankrupt this country." He also expressed concern about the impact of national politics on business, saying in a 2016 interview that he could not predict future health care costs or regulatory burdens, which he said prevented him from committing to new projects.
Transcript (56 segments)
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Meredith Vieira0:03
Hi, welcome to West 57th. I'm Meredith Vieira. It all started with a drive through the Nevada desert. The sun was hot and the car kept conking out, but Bugsy Siegel and Meyer Lansky knew they were on the verge of something big. It would become Las Vegas, the greatest money-making machine the mob had ever known. Gambling has changed over the years, especially with the entrance of Wall Street into the game. It's still a money-making machine worth $7 billion, but the industry says it's gone legit, and no one says it louder than Steve Wynn.
Wynn is the new symbol of success in Vegas. He turned a $10,000 grubstake into a multi-million dollar empire. As chairman of the Golden Nugget, he's a 46-year-old businessman looking for respect amidst the glitz.
Good evening, everybody. Welcome to the Golden Nugget. Here we go. In a town full of losers, just his name says it all. Steve Wynn is on a hot streak. His casinos take for last year alone, $100 million. Some call him a brilliant businessman, others say he's an egomaniac who uses his muscle to push people around. The nicest, the barbs seem to bounce off this perfectly coiffed, pearly-toothed mogul. He draws celebrities the way his casino does high rollers. A normal day in the life of Wynn.
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Stephen Wynn1:49
It's nice to have magic, but it's very expensive.
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Meredith Vieira1:51
Although slowly losing his sight to a degenerative eye disease, Wynn's vision for Las Vegas is perfectly clear. He is risking half a billion dollars to build the world's largest hotel casino on 86 acres of Nevada desert. Wynn calls Walt Disney his hero, and this will be his version of an adult Disneyland, complete with waterfalls, lagoons, and an erupting volcano.
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Stephen Wynn2:16
I think probably deep down inside, I'm a developer. Developers love to create space. They're romantic people.
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Meredith Vieira2:23
What you're developing isn't romance, Steve. You're developing decadence.
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Stephen Wynn2:27
You know, the Golden Nugget's decadence? No, romance. Control. Decadence? You mean people drinking, laughing, dancing, sex, food, gambling, all that stuff? Is that what you're referring to? Well, I don't know what they do. Commercial for Las Vegas. If you think I'm going to take a position against it, you're certainly interviewing the wrong guy.
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Meredith Vieira2:49
Hi, Mr. Sinatra. I'm Steve Wynn. I run this place. You see, I get enough towels.
These commercials, mugging with Frank Sinatra, established Wynn as a public personality, the man Vegas holds up as proof the place has changed. Instead of hiding in the shadows, he sells himself as one of a new breed who cuts his deals with Wall Street, not the mob.
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Stephen Wynn3:15
This is a legitimate business in America. The men who are running it are fellas who are very comfortable going to lunch with chairmen of the board of automobile manufacturing companies or major banking chairmen. That first group that built and pioneered this place, they did not have access to the kind of men. They weren't part of a fraternity of businessmen.
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Meredith Vieira3:39
Also, a lot of them were gangsters. I mean, they were going after something a little different.
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Stephen Wynn3:42
Actually, what happened, Meredith, is the guys who came out here weren't gangsters. They were friends of gangsters. So actually, the hoods themselves didn't come except to visit once in a while.
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Meredith Vieira3:53
Wynn's first memory of a mob-dominated Vegas was as an awestruck 10-year-old. He came on a family visit with his father, a Maryland bingo operator and a compulsive gambler. Wynn says his dad's sickness only made him regard the place with more awe.
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Stephen Wynn4:12
People come to Las Vegas in the heyday of the underworld involvement here, the 50s, and they would love to sit in the hotels controlled by the underworld because it was like part of the show.
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Meredith Vieira4:23
When Wynn returned in 1967, the mob had adopted a lower profile. Las Vegas seemed ready for the Ivy League graduate eager to launch his career. Wynn invested in the Golden Nugget, staged a successful takeover, and at the age of 31, became the youngest casino owner in town. But he couldn't have done it without his extraordinary relationship with the most powerful man in Nevada, Perry Thomas of the Valley Bank. At every turn, Wynn's mentor was there with millions of dollars in loans.
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Stephen Wynn4:58
He saw the gaming industry becoming something a lot different than what it had been in the 50s. You know, a collection of hoity-toity, 200-room wise-guy joints on the Strip.
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Meredith Vieira5:08
But the money Thomas's bank used to finance Vegas was not without taint. Much of it came from the Teamsters Central States Pension Fund, which the mafia ran. So how did that make you feel, though, when you realized that so much of that money was controlled by the mob?
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Stephen Wynn5:26
I didn't think of it in that terms. Money is money. Loans are loans. Credit is credit.
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Meredith Vieira5:33
But when you look back now, Mr. Thomas, do you wish the money had come from somewhere else? Would it even be an issue?
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Perry Thomas5:39
Knowing the transition through the years, as a very small bank trying to service a rapidly growing, enormous industry, yes, I would take their money again. The corruption was never with the bank. Corruption was with the hotels.
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Meredith Vieira5:57
But if the bank was a conduit, did you ever...
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Stephen Wynn6:00
Again, that's a bad choice of words. I'm going to have to stop you on this, Meredith, because you're way off base on this sort of thing. Funding a loan from the Teamsters never had anything to do with Mr. Thomas's integrity.
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Meredith Vieira6:12
Either way, Wynn's own reputation in Vegas has always been first-rate. But when he ventures beyond the desert, people tend to ask questions. In 1981, he tried to expand his gambling empire to England. Wynn bought a London hotel, but he failed to receive a gaming license.
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Stephen Wynn6:30
The British turned you down? Well, they don't exactly turn you down. What they do is they don't hear you calling. You apply for a certificate of consent, and it does not issue.
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Meredith Vieira6:41
So you pulled out.
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Stephen Wynn6:42
There's nothing left to do. You can't argue with them. They don't want American control. If you get into bed with the American gambling industry, you're getting into bed with the mob, whether you know it or not. That's what's going to occur.
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Meredith Vieira6:55
Frank Pulley was one of the Scotland Yard detectives who investigated casino applicants like Wynn.
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Frank Pulley7:00
The man has made an untold fortune in an industry which historically has been proved to be replete with organized crime. It was invented by the mob, it was modernized by the mob, the mob have put money into it, and they've taken vast amounts of money out of it.
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Meredith Vieira7:18
Do you think the British made up their minds about you before you even walked in there?
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Stephen Wynn7:25
Oh, I don't know why I would think a thing like that. I mean, the fact that when the Scotland Yard guy came to investigate us in my office, he did everything but ask me to put my hands against the side of the wall and frisk me.
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Meredith Vieira7:37
Can you blame people for that prejudice?
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Stephen Wynn7:39
Well, sure. They're complete idiots for that kind of lack of professionalism. I could blame him in a second.
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Meredith Vieira7:48
When Atlantic City opened for gambling in 1978 and became an instant success, suspicions like those of Scotland Yard took a back seat to the lure of profits. Wynn seized the opportunity and single-handedly convinced Wall Street that together they could strike it rich. He got John Kissick and other investment bankers at Drexel Burnham to finance his Atlantic City casino. Since then, Wall Street has gone bullish on gambling, but Kissick admits not every gray suit was confident at first.
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John Kissick8:21
We went in with our eyes open. We don't normally have twice as many lawyers looking. We don't usually have the same amount of background checks we had, but we had a lot of people looking at a lot of things.
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Meredith Vieira8:35
Did you have any problems with anything that you found out in that investigation about either Wynn or his associates?
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John Kissick8:41
I've never felt less uncomfortable with the integrity of Steve Wynn and the management of the Nugget. Sometimes I felt less comfortable about some of the things that have come up, but I think Steve Wynn's felt less comfortable about some of the things that have come up, too.
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Meredith Vieira8:56
What Drexel Burnham was sure of is that the Golden Nugget couldn't have any involvement with nefarious people.
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Stephen Wynn9:02
Unless I was in on it, it couldn't happen around me. It couldn't happen in spite of me. It would have to happen with my consent or my approval or my allowing it to happen.
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Meredith Vieira9:10
You mean if it was happening at the Golden Nugget, you would know it?
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Stephen Wynn9:13
I'd have to know it.
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Meredith Vieira9:15
But you didn't know about Mel Harris. You said you didn't know about Mel Harris.
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Stephen Wynn9:19
Mel Harris never... Mel Harris never got involved with the Golden Nugget longer than 20 seconds after it was brought to our attention.
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Meredith Vieira9:30
Mel Harris was a vice president of the Nugget. In 1984, federal agents secretly videotaped him entering the New York headquarters of Fat Tony Salerno, head of the Genovese crime family. In wiretapped conversations, the mob referred to Harris as, quote, 'our guy at the Golden Nugget.'
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Stephen Wynn9:49
All of a sudden, Mel Harris, we find out that Mel's talking to the wrong kind of people, and we throw him out on the street. You know, goodbye, Mel.
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Meredith Vieira9:58
It's that sort of association, direct links to the Genovese family, which give grave cause for concern to investigators in both America and Britain when it comes to consideration of licenses.
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Stephen Wynn10:09
That's sort of guilt by association, right? Well, that's the way that the mob operates. How can you trust anyone around you? You trusted Mel Harris. The question is, how can you be sure? How can you be positive? How can anybody? Well, you can't in this world. What you can be sure of is that in the end, honest people will do the right thing. That's why we all survived Mel Harris, and we kept our gambling licenses, and the state of New Jersey recommended our licensing after they investigated this. And if I don't see that sentence in this edited version of this tape, I will choke both of you.
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Meredith Vieira10:46
After this question and answer, Wynn's anger may stem from having to defend himself every time he turns around. In New Jersey, it became a yearly ritual. Whenever his casino license came up for renewal, there would be a highly publicized investigation. Wynn was always proven absolutely innocent, but the constant questions have taken their toll. Any reminder of past investigations is enough to set him off.
Anthony 'Tony' Cakes Castellano, remember him? Came into the Golden Nugget Atlantic City with suitcases full of money in small denominations. You guys thought he was okay, and it turns out that he was involved with heroin trafficking and may have laundered money through casinos. Were you duped? Is that a case of being duped?
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Stephen Wynn11:47
It's just too long a story to answer that way. It's too long a story.
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Meredith Vieira12:02
Wynn refused to answer any more questions, though he has made it clear in the past that his innocence in this matter is undisputed. For the next hour, he would vent his anger off-camera, along with the frustration of a man who demands respect in a business that's never had much. Finally, he agreed to return to the interview.
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Stephen Wynn12:22
The difference between us and other people is that we are constantly investigated, that we are constantly examined and held up and X-rayed. And so everything about the Golden Nugget, every judgment that I make, good and bad, becomes an item in the newspaper.
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Meredith Vieira12:42
But they're going to be right. And there are people who say, you know, why you people are always investigated? Because you should be investigated. Because organized crime is part of casinos and gambling. It always will be to some extent. And maybe Mel Harris would be an example.
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Stephen Wynn12:58
People who say that, they are people who have an ignorant and uninformed point of view.
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Meredith Vieira13:04
Last year, when Wynn received an offer to sell his Atlantic City casino, he grabbed it. He flew home to Las Vegas, where casino owners are held in higher regard. Here, he can shoot crap, but he doesn't have to take any.
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Stephen Wynn13:21
I don't think that it would be very much fun and very pleasant in life to achieve the symbols of success if you couldn't really enjoy the substance of success. And the substance of success, I think, in the end, in its simplest terms, would be to have the respect of your peers.