Hello everybody. Welcome to this very special Rest is History bonus episode with the head of Disney, Bob Iger. Now Tom, normally our bonus episodes are only for members of our much-loved Rest is History Club, but this one is a little bit different, isn't it?
Yeah. So this week we've done two episodes on Disney. We looked at the man himself and we looked at Disneyland. And also, of course, if you're a member of the club, you would have got to listen to the coda to our epic series on Nelson where we talked about what happened to Lady Emma Hamilton after Nelson's death. But in this special bonus episode, we are with Bob Iger and we are discussing with him Walt Disney's legacy with the man who now runs Disney. So, a very unusual bonus episode for us, a bonus bonus episode. In fact, hope you enjoy it.
So, Bob, here we are. Amazing setting, stage one, here at Burbank. And we've just come from Walt's office, which you showed us. And you're one of, I guess really three people in the majority of Disney's history who've run the company. And I mean, no offense, but you're not going to be running it forever.
No offense, take it. Okay, that's good.
So, so what do you think, you know, we've talked a lot about Walt's legacy, but what do you think your legacy will be when you look back on your time as the kind of custodian of this amazing, well the captain of this fantastic ship?
Yes, I think about this often actually. I think because of the company's place in the world, I think the person running the company has a special responsibility of sorts to maintain Disney's position in the world as a beloved company, as an admired company, as a company that entertains really the world, everyone of all ages and, you know, from all different walks of life. And I think more than anything else, I would want to be known as someone who was given the keys to this kingdom, so to speak. And quite a kingdom it is. And that I brought it to a place that even Walt would be proud of. And what that means is more great storytelling to a larger audience, more innovation, more risk-taking, more really creation of happiness. It's really that simple. I know at one point I thought, well okay you're now running Disney, what's the mostly you want to avoid? Not screw it up. But it's much more than that. I really have been mindful of the duty that I feel has been handed to me to make it even better than it's ever been.
And what do you think the years ahead hold for Disney because you've been at the forefront of so much technological change going back to Walt effectively inventing animation as we were talking about earlier but also you're a company rooted in history. So, how are you going to, how do you think Disney and your successors will navigate that?
As I think you would both probably agree, it's hard to project 50 years ahead about anything really because the world is changing so rapidly and in such profound ways. And you know as I think about the future, one, I would hope that my successors would be respectful of our past and well aware of the values that really created the value of the company in the first place and carry them forward but not let anything that's been done in the past get in the way of bringing the company into the future. And that's really constant innovation, constant exploration, you know, constant essentially desire to reinvent and or to invent even more than anything else. That's what I'd want. But I think we do occupy a place in the world as great storytellers, perhaps maybe the greatest. And I would hope that that position would continue for years and years, decades ahead.
And talking of great storytellers, obviously it would be very out of character, Tom, for us not to talk about ourselves in this context. So, how did you get into The Rest Is History? Can I ask?
Well, actually a colleague of mine here at Disney, Christina Shaki, who was our chief communications officer and is a history buff, I think, recommended it initially. We share an interest in non-fiction, particularly books about history, and she was the first that suggested I listen to it. And I think during COVID it served a great purpose. I went for many walks and like to listen to a variety of different things, podcasts and music, and it was just a wonderful way to occupy time in what was obviously a pretty tricky time of our lives.
And are there particular subjects from history that have really fired your imagination?
This is a commercial for The Rest Is History. I guess we're all in favor of that. What I love about it is that one, it gives me the ability to tap into things that I've already been interested in and that I know a little bit about and you teach me more, but you also introduce me to subjects that I wouldn't have been even curious about. Right. The recent one about Marie Antoinette comes to mind. On the other hand, I was always fascinated with the Titanic and your multi-parter on the Titanic filled in so many blanks for me and created so much more context. I also am an aficionado of certainly American history particularly American presidents. So the assassination of Lincoln comes to mind as one that I was particularly interested in. One that I recently listened to about Reagan and the attempt on his life. I also found interesting looking back I think at 1968 and Nixon and the anti-Vietnam movement and the siege of course of Khe Sanh which was one of the all-time greats.
Is that over yet? I don't know.
133 parts. Yeah. Still going strong.
He eventually died fortunately I guess.
Yeah. But then we still carried on after he died.
So to give you a sense of how The Rest Is History worked. This is not a production process that I would recommend at Disney. We were originally scheduled to do one episode which would be 55 minutes. And there was a point at which we'd reached we'd done about eight or nine and Theo and Tabby, our producers, left their mics on and they were I could hear them bitterly complaining that the series had now swollen to about 10 hours because I think originally we were going to do the entire history of Native Americans in four episodes. And that just proved impossible. It did prove impossible.
So yeah, not a model for Disney planners. Would you have any areas of history or themes that you would particularly like us to explore?
I've studied and read a lot about Churchill and I know you've touched on Churchill here and there, but I don't think you've ever done a full birth to death of Churchill.
We've done young Churchill, but we have been talking about carrying his life forward, haven't we?
And our competing impressions of Churchill. I think that's what the public really wants.
Yeah, he was, you know, he was maybe a larger than life figure to Americans, too. At least Americans born when I was born. I was born in 1951. And so he was not only very much alive, but very much active in politics still. And I still remember him coming to the United States for the funeral of John F. Kennedy and thinking, here's a man that was born, I believe, in Victorian England, attending the funeral of a man who was one of the youngest presidents ever elected. I just remember thinking about that span of history.
But I was struck. We did a series on the assassination of JFK and kind of looking at his early life and I hadn't properly appreciated the way in which he was knitted in to, you know, the world of high society in Britain. So he would, I mean he knew Churchill before the war. His sister married someone who then married a Mitford.
Is that right? I can't remember exactly. His father was ambassador then to the Court of St. James's. And also had a thing or two to say about the rise of Nazism, which is now I know that's something that you've also covered.
Yeah, that's right. Now, something we're always asked by our Rest Is History Club members, our beloved members of the Rest Is History Club. They always ask us, Tom, who would you like to have dinner with from history? And Bob, it would be remiss of us not to ask you. So, if you could have anybody from history for dinner, you could take them to Disneyland and have dinner with them. Who would it be?
Well, it would have to be Walt Disney. Yes. And I think about it often. People always ask me, 'What would Walt think, right?' You know, it's interesting, too, because one of the things that was problematic for the company after Walt died so suddenly in 1966 is the company spent so much time asking that question, what would Walt do or what would he think? So, I'm not really interested in turning to him for advice, per se, but I would be more interested in showing him what's become of the great company that he founded. And I wouldn't mind a bit of a report card. Perhaps it's cocky of me to think that he would give me all A's.
Which of the rides do you think he'd be most impressed by?
Well, you know, he is, I know because you've done a little studying of Walt. He never even considered them rides. They were all stories to him. They were experiences. He wasn't building rides. And many of the not just traditions but values that he created and essentially built, we followed basically through on essentially either his instructions or his vision. So when we create attractions we try to tell stories, when we create attractions, even when we create restaurants and hotels there's a story behind it. And in particular, I'd love to show him what we built that's derived from Star Wars mythology. We call the lands Galaxy's Edge. There's one in Florida and one in his beloved Disneyland. By the way, they're billion-dollar lands. And they not only tell great stories, but as he really demonstrated back when he built Disneyland in the 50s into the 60s, he used technology to make those stories as compelling as possible in physical form, which is not easy. And these attractions in Galaxy's Edge, there are two main attractions, are an unbelievably perfect example of the blend of great technology with great storytelling in the physical world. And I'd love for him to see that.
And very expensive and he loved spending enormous amounts of money on achieving his films.
Well, you know, yes, I guess he spent loads of money in what he did. I'm not sure that he ever thought it was always to him in my opinion about how can I tell this story better or how can I tell a great story and I don't think he even asked what it will cost.
No. And that's why poor Roy was, 'Oh no, you've done what? You bought what?'
Yeah. Well, by the way, I not that I should admit this too publicly, but often when we dream up ideas here, the first question we ask ourselves is not how much will it cost. It's can we make it great? And then eventually you get to the well, what is this going to cost? And does it make sense because we're trying to serve shareholders as well as customers.
But that is a Walt Disney inheritance, isn't it? I mean, that was very much his approach.
It is. And I think actually if you ask what everything is going to cost before you make everything or even think about making something, then you end up not making a lot that you should have made.
Yeah. So that's the same with Chatham High Street.
Very very much the Chatham High Street vibe. So, on the storytelling front, are there stories that you would have loved to have been able to tell during your tenure at Disney, but weren't able to? Are there any that got away or stories that you would like Disney to tell in the future?
That's an interesting question. I've really not thought about what it is we haven't done. We're always dreaming about what it is we can do. And like if you look at, you know, my tenure in this role, I'm very proud of the array of great stories that we've been able to tell some through acquisition of companies starting with Pixar in 2006 and I think about the wonderful stories those artists and storytellers have told over the years from Inside Out and up to Coco and I could go on and on and then of course there was Marvel and the stories we've told there. Obviously, Black Panther and Avengers stand out and then ultimately buying Lucasfilm from George Lucas in 2012 and continuing basically the mythology that he created, which I think should be considered among the greatest mythology created at least in our lifetime and telling more Star Wars tales and then buying 20th Century Fox and working with Jim Cameron on Pandora and Avatar films for instance. So, and as we look ahead, there are so many stories that we're planning to tell that it's really not about what we're missing. It's how do we get all of these right? We have an unbelievable luxury of, you know, just great riches.
You missed out the Muppets.
Yes, we I guess we do own the Muppets along the way. We're actually working on something for the Muppets.
Oh, that's good news. That's good to know.
That's good news. I do like the Muppets.
It's an interesting one, isn't it? The role that you've had and the role that Walt Disney had. There are not many analogies in history. There are people who've led empires and nation states and whatnot, but effectively, I mean, this is a strange thing to say to somebody sitting just a few feet away from you, but you have more power than a lot of elected prime ministers, not necessarily over the day-to-day lives of people, but over people's heads, people's imaginations. Do you ever think about that? Does that ever play on your mind?
