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Michael Murray
Chief Executive Officer, President & Chairman, KOPIN CORP

$KOPN Earnings Call Live

🎥 May 12, 2026 📺 HGR Investing ⏱ 83m 👁 16 views
A recording from Hidden Gems Research LLC's live video https://hiddengemsresearchllc.com/p/k...
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About Michael Murray

Michael Murray, CEO of Kopin Corporation, has been discussing the company's progress in defense, AI infrastructure, and microdisplay technologies. In a July 2026 interview, Murray stated that Kopin surpassed three milestones in its IBASS award with the U.S. Army, exceeding brightness and other technical specifications. He described the company's microLED production line as a key asset, noting that it would support programs such as Soldier Borne Mission Command, which he said could represent a $350 million to $500 million contract for Kopin if the company is selected. Murray also highlighted the company's first-person viewer, Sentinel FPV, and said he was "staggeringly surprised by the speed that the Pentagon is moving" on drone supply. In separate interviews, Murray said Kopin expects to be profitable by the end of 2026 and that the U.S. government is investing in the company. He projected that the AI infrastructure market could account for 25% to 50% of Kopin's revenue in the next year and potentially match its defense revenue by 2028. Murray described Kopin as the only U.S. company with LCD, OLED, microLED, and LCoS manufacturing under one roof, and he characterized the AI interconnect market as a $23 billion opportunity where Kopin is "the only ones in that lane."

Source: AI-verified profile updated from Michael Murray's recent appearances. Browse all interviews →

Transcript (103 segments)
O
Operator0:00
During today's presentation, all parties will be in a listen-only mode. Following the presentation, the conference will be open for questions. This conference is being recorded today and the earnings press release accompanying this conference call was issued earlier today. Before we get started, I'd like to remind everyone that during today's call, we will be making forward-looking statements as defined in the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These statements are based on the company's current expectation, projection, beliefs, and estimates and are subject to a number of risks and uncertainties that cause actual results to differ materially from those forward-looking statements. Potential risks include but are not limited to demand for our products, operating results of our subsidiaries, market conditions and other factors discussed in our most recent annual report on Form 10-K and other documents filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Although the company believes that the assumptions underlying these statements can be proven inaccurate, your own assurances. But yeah, it looked like the numbers were right in line. The stock price, at least I took a few minutes ago, hadn't reacted. The Chief Executive Officer, Michael Murray, will begin today's call. It looked good. I mean, it was great. So it's okay that much. Yeah. And the period that has followed. Following Michael, Kopin CFO Eric Man will review the company's first quarter 2026 financial results. I would now like to turn the conference over to Michael Murray. Michael, the floor is yours.
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Michael Murray1:50
Thank you very much, operator, and good morning to everyone and welcome to our first quarter 2026 earnings call. The first quarter and subsequent weeks marks one of the most exciting stretches in Kopin's history. We continue to grow our defense order book across the United States and Europe. We also advanced our microLED technology platforms and announced a strategic collaboration with Fabric AI that we believe meaningfully expands the long-term opportunity set and sustainable acceleration of revenue growth for Kopin. Today I'll walk you through three areas. First, the Fabric AI collaboration and the launch of our jointly developed Neural IO optical interconnect technology for AI infrastructure. Second, our continued momentum across all global defense markets, including new orders, our entry into first-person viewer drone technologies, and the major thermal imaging follow-on contract awarded subsequent to quarter end. And third, our strategic investments, including bringing OLED micro display manufacturing in-house at our Westboro headquarters facility here in Massachusetts, and how we're positioning the defense business for the long-term exponential and sustainable revenue growth at higher profit margins.
First, let me start with the most consequential announcement we've made this year. Recently, we announced a strategic collaboration with Fabric AI, an AI infrastructure development company building the advanced core capabilities for AI factories that power large-scale artificial intelligence workloads. Together, Kopin and Fabric AI are joint in development of a new product family we call Neural IO that is designed to dramatically increase bandwidth speeds, decrease power consumption, and importantly lower overall operational costs of currently operating data centers and new data centers alike. Neural IO is built on Kopin's proprietary microLED technology and our patented bidirectional neural display architecture. What we've done is repurpose programmable microLED pixels as ultra-high-speed optical transceivers. Devices that move data at extremely high bandwidth using photons of light instead of electrons traveling through copper wires. This matters for one simple reason. Today, data center equipment and GPUs relies on dense copper interconnections to talk to each other. And those copper interconnections are now the binding constraint on AI data center performance and power consumption. AI factories are running into the limits of what copper can do both in terms of bandwidth and in terms of the energy required to push data and cool the systems. Neural IO is designed to break through those limits by using each microLED pixel as a high-speed optical transmitter. We are designing chip-to-chip, board-to-board, and rack-to-rack communications that target the same functional outcome as copper while consuming a fraction of the power. To use the words of Matt Kimell, principal analyst at Moore Insights and Strategy, quote, 'The ability to enable connectivity that delivers the full throughput of an accelerator without taxing the power budget has been a persistent challenge in the industry. Kopin's LED technology presents a unique and compelling value proposition. Moreover, this marks a completely new era in data transmission, bandwidth, and designing of electronic systems.' End quote.
Several recent articles estimate that the AI infrastructure optical transceiver market is expected to reach between 69 to 90 billion by 2030. Of that total spending, the United States Department of Defense and Government Systems is the second largest consumer of this technology behind the traditional hyperscaler markets. This is why Kopin and Fabric AI decided to focus on each of these individual markets separately. This relationship was forged with a clear intent of relentless focus on addressing this massive market in the right ways with the right people to promote exponential and profitable growth with the proper resources required. Kopin will support the absolute and clear requirements of the United States government and Department of War for US production of AI chips and chipsets with our US-based microLED production line we are installing as part of our Industrial Base Analysis and Sustainment Act award or IBAS award. This custom-designed production line will support the Neural IO family of chipsets for the United States Department of War and government customers. Fabric AI chipsets and our new color microLED products for programs like Soldier Born Mission Command and many others will also be produced on this production line and I will expand on that more later. Under our agreement with Fabric AI and in addition to the 15 million initial purchase order to fund the demonstrable chipset, which we expect to be completed by the end of 2026, Kopin owns 19.9% of Fabric AI and Kopin is their exclusive manufacturer of Neural IO chipsets. The collaboration combines our deep expertise in microLED material process development, yield optimization and manufacturing with Fabric AI's system-level design and go-to-market focus on hyperscaler AI infrastructure. We believe this is a true technology partnership. Kopin brings the enabling hardware and together we are building an infrastructure layer that AI data centers will require to scale for years to come. In addition to our 19.9% equity stake in Fabric AI, Kopin's shareholders have direct exposure to the upside of this opportunity beyond the manufacturing economics. Fabric AI has raised the required capital to fund this development and staff the business appropriately as Kopin completes the Neural IO prototypes. We will share more on the development roadmap and customer engagements as it advances in later calls. Infrastructure is being deployed at an unprecedented pace and the bottlenecks created by traditional copper interconnects are precisely the kind of problem our technology is well suited to solving. We believe this collaboration dramatically expands Kopin's market opportunity and positions us as a strategic enabler in the next wave of AI acceleration. And it fits very well within our core skill sets and capabilities leading microLED development and manufacturing here in the United States. While there are competitors attempting to develop their own solutions like Kopin's, most are startups and have never produced this technology previously. Others are established firms in the copper or fiber optic transceiver markets which have not produced this technology previously either, which provides Kopin a significant market advantage from a timing, yield, and quality perspective since we are actively producing this technology today.
Now, turning to defense, our first quarter and the period defense reflects continued strong order momentum across our core programs and meaningful expansion into new ones. Let me walk through the highlights chronologically. In January, our strategic partnership with Theon International produced its first order on Darkwave platform, a $1 million development order to bring the 960P OLED Darkwave module to production readiness. This is a significant opportunity and milestone because Darkwave enables users of traditional monochrome night vision goggles to upgrade them as a retrofit with full color augmented reality enabled symbology and full motion digital interface and interlacing feeds including drone imagery. Our Darkwave module is the foundation of Theon's upcoming Dark Eye product with more than 2 million estimated NVGs in use globally and a global NVG market projected to grow from 8.6 billion in 2025 to 12.9 billion in 2030. Darkwave targets a very large aftermarket opportunity. And because the system is ITAR free, it opens up a new global market for both companies. In February, we announced two new European helmet mounted display orders. First, a $2 million micro display production order from a tier 1 European defense contractor for a rotary wing helmet mounted display system. And second, a $3.6 million purchase order from an advanced avionic helmet mounted display system to be integrated into a rotary wing military aircraft from yet another European defense customer. Together, these awards bring our pilot helmet mounted display order book above $10 million and underscore the strength of our display solutions across both US and European defense aviation. Indeed, our European business plan and focus is starting to provide new customers and applications, which will only increase our order book, provide more global business independence and stability while increasing our European facility absorption rates. In March, we were awarded a phase one SBIR contract from the United States government to advance new full color yet smaller form factor microLED display technology purpose designed for soldier born and weapons sight application. This is the second microLED focused US Army award we've received in the past six months and it builds directly on the existing $15.4 million IBAS contract awarded in September of 2025 which is focused on developing domestic production capabilities for our microLED displays. The microLED architecture under development is engineered to deliver the brightness, ruggedness and power efficiency required for next generation weapon sights, helmet mounted visual information systems and other precise targeting devices. The kind of capability that scales across multiple defense programs. In April, we announced our entry into the first-person viewer drone market with the launch of our Sentinel FPV product. Drone pilots need high resolution headsets connected to the cameras on the drones to control it as if they were in quote unquote the pilot seat of the drone. We received an initial $3.2 million order with potential delivery of up to 40,000 goggles by the end of 2028. What makes Sentinel unique is something we call dual situational awareness or dual SA. Unlike traditional FPV goggles that fully block out the operator's peripheral view, Sentinel is engineered to deliver high-definition drone imagery while preserving the user's peripheral awareness of their surroundings. No other FPV goggle on the market provides this level of hands-free integration awareness. In field trials, drone pilots love the demonstrated dramatic improvements in survivability, mission effectiveness, pilot dexterity, and safety that Sentinel provides. We believe this technology has potential to redefine what a tactical FPV system looks like. And we're actively engaged with additional drone and FPV companies to integrate Sentinel into their platforms. Further, this technology is built in the United States which is mandated by the FMS and the Department of War. Also subsequent to quarter end, we announced a $21.5 million follow-on production contract from a major US prime to manufacture custom thermal imaging eyepieces and assemblies for a man-portable thermal weapon system. This award expands our growing backlog and reinforces Kopin's role as a trusted US-based supplier of mission-critical vision systems for the warfighter. With more than 400,000 mission-critical solutions delivered across multiple generations of defense programs, this contract is a strong vote of confidence in our manufacturing capability and our ability to deliver American-made technology that performs in the harshest of environments. Taken together, the orders we've announced over the last several months, Darkwave with the European HMD awards, the SBIR for soldier-born microLEDs, Sentinel FPV, and the 21 million thermal imaging follow-on award reflect both the durability of recurring order rates of our existing defense business and the confidence of our government, North American, and new European prime contractor customers have in the new product lines we're bringing to market. As a reminder, many of our defense programs have congressional budget demands through 2030 and several of our contracts are sole sourced indefinite demand and indefinite delivery or IDIQ which provides additional upside flexibility above what is currently on order, recurring revenue and forecastability and sustainability for several years.
Now I want to spend a few minutes in the third area as I mentioned at the top of the call on our strategic investments and what they tell you about how we are deploying our cash. After quarter end, we announced the purchase of a state-of-the-art OLED deposition system and related equipment to establish full-scale OLED micro display production at our Westboro headquartered facility. For the past several years, Kopin has operated under a fabless OLED production model, leveraging external partners. The reason we are bringing this capability in-house now is straightforward. We are experiencing a substantial, quantifiable and qualified surge in customer demand for fully US-built OLED micro displays, particularly for systems like Sentinel, thermal weapon sights and other soldier born mission critical defense applications. Bringing OLED manufacturing capability in-house gives us greater speed, flexibility, and cost efficiency to respond to that demand. We will continue to leverage our established Asian manufacturing partners for consumer and medical applications that do not have a domestic production requirement. And we will continue to use our European OLED deposition partner for NATO aligned defense programs as well. The US OLED capability is additive, designed specifically to support the US defense market. I want to be very clear about the message this investment is intended to send which is that we are comfortable with our cash position and our facility footprint to deliver this increased demand. The capital we raised in 2025 was raised with this level of growth and investment in mind. The OLED deposition decision is exactly the kind of investment that strengthens our defense business going forward. It expands sovereign supply chain options for our defense customers. It improves our control over quality, lead times, and pricing. And it complements our existing US manufacturing capabilities for AMLCD, FLOS, microLED and now OLED. Kopin remains the only company in the United States manufacturing four types of micro displays, optics and soon photonics for the US defense customers who are increasingly demanding and in some cases must by law purchase from trusted domestic producers for critical components. Clearly Kopin is answering that call. Turning to the operational side, our investments in automation continue to deliver meaningful improvements in throughput, quality, consistency, and cost efficiencies. Both phases of our optical automation program are now operational, and we expect these investments to deliver about $1 million in annual operating expense savings and add to overall production capacity as they reach full utilization. From an advanced technology perspective, our neural display technology continues to advance and as noted earlier has now extended beyond defense and industrial display applications into AI infrastructure through our collaboration with Fabric AI and our Neural IO initiatives. The neural display platform leverages advanced processing and AI enabled backplane and offers display optimization to enhance image quality, reduce power consumption and improve overall user experience across the markets we serve. This display technology has several of the largest consumer companies interested in it for AI enabled smart glasses and we are now working to create a partnership to deliver neural display as a microLED device rather than an OLED device which is the current demonstrable device as it stands today. Furthermore, as I mentioned earlier, Neural IO transceiver is not just a single chip strategy. It will be a family of devices focused on application specific solutions within the AI GPU, CPU and memory architecture of an existing data center and new data centers alike. These new chipsets will be developed with several of the largest semiconductor and AI infrastructure companies in the world. Several of whom are actively engaged with Kopin to work on these solutions. And one of the only manufacturers in the world capable of producing four types of micro displays and now AI interconnection chipset solutions within the United States, Kopin maintains a unique competitive advantage that enables us to deliver the right technology for the customer specific application in defense, industrial, medical and now AI infrastructure applications.
So to summarize, the first quarter of 2026 together with the events we've announced subsequent to quarter end represent a meaningful inflection point for Kopin. We extended our microLED and neural display platforms into AI infrastructure through our Fabric AI collaboration. We have launched several new products and received initial orders with Darkwave to bring full color to the enormous monochrome night vision goggle market and with Sentinel FPV for the massively expanding global drone goggle market as well. These new activities speak to the disciplined productivity of our internal research and development spending as these new technologies are attracting new customers and new market segments for Kopin. These new platforms enable Kopin to sell these products to multiple customers globally and are not just a custom product for just a single customer, making our forward-looking recurring revenue more balanced and forecastable. Within the quarter, we grew our defense backlog with a $21.5 million thermal imaging follow-on order, a $3.2 million initial Sentinel FPV order, over $5 million of new European HMD awards, a phase one SBIR for soldier-born microLEDs, and the first Darkwave order from Theon. We invested in our strategic priorities by committing to bringing full-scale OLED micro display manufacturing in-house in Westboro. And we did all of this while maintaining a strong balance sheet. Consequently, we reiterate our 2026 revenue guidance range of 52 million to 60 million, which we believe remains appropriate and conservative given the order momentum we are seeing across both our existing defense business and our newer growth programs. As more programs and awards are converted into shippable orders and as our newer programs ramp, we expect to provide further updates throughout the year. I'll now turn the call over to our CFO Eric Mans to review our first quarter 2026 financial results in further detail. Eric,
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Eric Mans31:34
Thank you, Michael, and good morning everyone. As Michael outlined, the first quarter and subsequent events represent a meaningful shift in Kopin's trajectory. From my perspective as CFO, what is particularly compelling is how clearly we're seeing our strategic investments begin to translate into tangible commercial momentum across both our core defense programs and our emerging opportunities in AI infrastructure. The combination of expanding defense orders, entry into new product categories like Sentinel FPV, and the strategic collaboration with Fabric AI gives us increasing confidence that we are building a more durable, diversified, and scalable revenue base. Just as importantly, we are doing so while maintaining a disciplined approach to capital deployment and a strong balance sheet. An important financial implication of this momentum is how it positions us to better utilize our existing manufacturing footprint. As volumes increase across multiple programs, we expect to more effectively absorb fixed costs with our facilities that have historically weighed on our cost structures. In other words, improved factory utilization and a broader mix of production programs should translate into better overhead absorption expansion and a more efficient operating model over time. The investments we've made, whether in microLED innovation, automation, or bringing OLED manufacturing in-house, are not theoretical. They are directly aligned with identifiable demand signals for our customers and are designed to enhance throughput, improve cost efficiency, strengthen our control over both quality and delivery and minimize risk. In short, we believe the progress you are seeing is new, not just incremental. It reflects a fundamental step forward in the company's growth profile, cost structure, and operating leverage. With that context, I'll now walk through the first quarter 2026 financial results in more detail. Total revenue for the first quarter ended March 28, 2026, was 10.6 million as compared to 10.5 million for the first quarter ended March 29, 2025. The slight year-over-year increase reflects new award and collaboration revenue contributions from the company's $15.4 million government microLED award and strategic thermal clip-on partnership which more than offset the declines in product revenues. Product revenues for the first quarter were 5.4 million as compared to 9.2 million in the year ago period. The year-over-year decrease was primarily due to lower period shipments of products for thermal weapon sight applications and liquid crystal displays. Non-product revenues were 5.1 million in the first quarter of 2026 as compared to 1.3 million in the first quarter of 2025. The increase was primarily driven by award revenue recognized in connection with the company's government award for the development of ultra bright full color microLED displays optimized for ground soldier augmented reality applications together with collaboration revenue from a strategic partnership to develop a next generation with augmented reality and thermal integration capabilities. Cost of product revenues for the first quarter of 2026 were 5.6 million or 103% of net product revenues as compared to 7.6 million or 83% of net product revenues for the first quarter of 2025. The increase as a percentage of net product revenues was primarily attributable to reduced production efficiency on a lower revenue base. Research and development expenses for the first quarter of 2026 were 4.9 million as compared to 2.1 million for the first quarter of 2025. The R&D expense increase was primarily due to the aforementioned government award for the development of ultra bright full color microLED display optimized for ground soldier augmented reality applications offset by increases in process improvements. Selling, general and administrative expenses were 6 million for the first quarter of 2026 as compared to 4.7 million in the first quarter of 2025. The increase was primarily due to increases in professional fees and accrued performance-based compensation. As of March 28, 2026, the company had cash and cash equivalents of $34 million. Total cash, restricted and marketable securities of 59.5 million inclusive of 25.3 million of restricted cash bonded against the Blue Media's litigation appeal. Following the deconsolidation of Kopin Europe in October of 2025, the company's reported cash position is wholly domestic and the company's analysis supports that its current liquidity is sufficient to fund operations through at least the end of the second quarter of 2027 and beyond. On a final note, there will be another filing of more administrative nature today unrelated to earnings. This is to move from an S-1 registration to a Form S-3 registration. To be clear to the investors, there is no offering with this. It's technically re-registering shares from the filing last fall. I'll turn the call back over to Michael for closing remarks.
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Michael Murray38:26
Before we open up for questions, I want to leave you with this. Our progress in 2026 here today represents a meaningful step forward in Kopin's strategic evolution, the second phase of our transformation plan. We extended our core microLED and neural display platform into AI infrastructure through our collaboration with Fabric AI. We grew our defense order book across the US and Europe and entered into the high growth FPV drone market. We grew our defense order book and clearly have differentiated products like Sentinel FPV. We invested behind our defense business with a major commitment to US OLED micro display manufacturing and we did so while maintaining a strong balance sheet. What sets Kopin apart is very straightforward. We are the only company in the world manufacturing four types of micro displays, the inventors of the bidirectional AI enabled micro display, and we are the sole source provider on several Department of War programs of record that have many years of sustained production ahead of us. And our technology platform is now being deployed across some of the fastest growing market segments in defense and soon AI infrastructure. We believe 2026 is the year this company begins to demonstrate the full potential of everything we have built and we are just getting started. And with that, operator, I'll open the call for some questions.
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Operator39:49
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star and one on your telephone keypad. A confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You may press star and two if you'd like to remove your question from the queue. For participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the star keys. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while we poll for questions. We take the first question from the line of Jason Schmidt from Lake Street Capital Markets. Please go ahead.
J
Jason Schmidt40:28
Hey guys, thanks for taking my questions. Michael, just a clarification on the guidance. I know you reiterated the full year outlook. Does that include the Fabric AI order?
M
Michael Murray40:41
It does. Yes, we're being very conservative on the forecast, Jason. We want to make sure that we're able to support the current order book as well as the new AI infrastructure chipset. So that's a very conservative forecast for this year.
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Eric Mans41:01
Love to hear it.
J
Jason Schmidt41:02
Gotcha. And then just as a follow-up, going off your comments on the surge in OLED demand, just curious if you could update us what you're seeing from the F-35 pilot helmet segment.
M
Michael Murray41:15
Sure. So, I can't go into too much detail. As folks are aware, Kopin has a customer in a fixed-wing application that we've been supporting with our LCD technology. Our LCD business this year is increasing somewhat marginally. However, our OLED development, we expect to be in low-rate initial production by the end of this year, maybe into Q1 or the first half of next year in OLED specifically, Jason. So, we're expecting to see new OLED orders for that platform I'd say by the end of this year. The forecast that we've seen is larger than expected and I can't go into too much more detail than that.
J
Jason Schmidt42:11
Okay, that's helpful. Thanks a lot, guys.
M
Michael Murray42:16
Thank you.
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Operator42:17
We take the next question from the line of John Figman from Stifel. Please go ahead.
J
John Figman42:23
Hey, good morning. Thanks for taking the question. Really appreciated all the great news. A lot of positive developments. Just a follow-up on the guidance to make sure we understand it correctly. It seemed like all the defense developments really covered what you had in mind when you previously spoke to us.
M
Michael Murray42:45
JT, first two questions are about guidance.
J
John Figman42:47
Yes, sir.
M
Michael Murray42:48
And then Fabric AI.
J
John Figman42:52
Just is there any, are you anticipating any delays this year on any...
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Eric Mans43:01
It's like, please tell us something good. Please tell us something good. We need just a little something bad to write about to throw in there. But please tell us something good.
J
Jason Schmidt43:10
Yeah. I mean this has been probably one of the better earnings calls we've heard recently in terms of I can't really find any holes in it to poke. Like, you know, I won't mention the company yesterday but we did, you know, that one I was like, oh, I'm not really loving what I'm hearing. But this, I mean, we got structured developments, we have a growing backlog, everything's on track. They're giving very conservative guidance to give room for potential beats later, kind of like what AS is doing.
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Eric Mans43:38
Right, a no new dilution, growing pipeline like I said. Good strategic investments, but not too many. I mean, this, I'm very much considering like grabbing some stuff before this keeps running. I got to just fight FOMO and just get on right per my rules. But yeah, man, this is, and pre-market's showing it, too. Like market's impressed right now. I'm impressed. I think this is an undervalued company right now and probably is going to be one of those hidden gems that we see, you know, that is crossing the double digits at some point, I think, in 2026 if they keep this up, especially with how much AI infrastructure is ripping right now. I mean, this is going to be a good one, I think.
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Jason Schmidt44:22
Yeah. Yeah, they've been slugging it out for five years, too. I see a wide open, you know, right to eight here is where my optimistic, you know, angel over here is telling me, yeah, it's running to eight here in the next, this week, you know, but...
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Eric Mans44:41
Yours are happy. We're up 15% pre-market, I think, to what are we up to 52-week highs right now? I haven't looked at the full chart, but I think we might be.
J
Jason Schmidt44:49
Yeah. Oh, yeah. 5.76 if it holds this. It just hit 5.80 as we're talking, you know. Goodness.
E
Eric Mans44:57
Start over here.
J
Jason Schmidt44:58
Yeah, strong volume, you know, a lot of buying volume pressure coming in. You know, RSI is rising. Yeah. Yeah.
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Eric Mans45:09
Yeah. So, you know, I'm going to watch the tape to see if we get an institutional order flow on Trader Daddy and then if I'm seeing anything, you know, that's like, wow, there's some unusual flow coming in. Someone's betting big on this going like, yeah, I'm gonna get in. And if not, then I'll wait for a little bit of a pullback and then write some cash-secured puts probably.
J
Jason Schmidt45:29
Yeah. Yeah. You know, I got to fess up. I decided last minute yesterday, I jumped off the tractor, ran in here, you know, said, you know, you need to sell a few of these contracts, you know, and at least get your principal back and all that. But yeah, I don't know. The devil on this shoulder here was like, maybe wait till the last minute. So, but what stopped me was, you know, pulled up Thinkorswim, was looking at the options list and quite a bit of volume yesterday relative to the open interest. Yeah, with the rise in price, I just, you know, I just couldn't pull the trigger, you know. I didn't want to rush it there in the last two minutes of trading and sort of a panic sell to lock it in because I tell you, as much as I've been paying attention to Kopin here since February when I really bought in when they got that NATO order, you know, that sort of opened up to me like wow because I already knew they sort of had locked in or not locked in but focused in with the NDAA and the domestic production supply chain that's being built right now. But realized that they were open up to that, then this Fabric AI collaboration has hit, you know, the timing just couldn't be better and you like what you're hearing. I like the conservative guidance. I like that they're just not shilling or bragging or just facts here and letting their reaction take hold, you know, just a sort of a natural reaction here, you know, and there'd be plenty of time to really pump it when they got some exploding numbers here, or surging numbers anyway.
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Eric Mans47:20
No grandstanding is key. They're just, very good way to put it.
J
Jason Schmidt47:25
The results speak for themselves without being, we have all these amazing things happening, some smoke screen, snake oil. It's just straight, these are the facts. This is what's going on. Here are your updates. Good. I mean previously right now, up like 17%. How the market opens. This is crazy. So, very happy on those leaks.
E
Eric Mans47:50
Right on, man. Right on. And hey, you know, we paused it for me to comment that the first two questions was guidance, you know, tell me something good. And obviously while we've had it paused, you know, he's obliged and told him something good. Let's check it out and see what it is.
J
John Figman48:04
Let's keep going. Anything that you previously expected or just any kind of negative things that's now embedded in the guide. Thank you.
M
Michael Murray48:14
Yeah. No, I think we're being uber conservative. We want to make sure that we're able to achieve our forecast and overcome the forecast that we've given. And I think there's definite upside in the forecast that we've given. But nothing negative. We don't see any pullbacks. I think we're probably a little gun-shy from the government shutdowns in Q3 and Q4 of last year. So, we want to make sure that we overcome the forecast that we put out this year.
J
John Figman48:49
Okay. Appreciate that. And then on the capex, excited to see you deploying some of that. Your comments, you're confident that you have the capacity to support that. Can you talk a little bit about just what we can expect this year in terms of total capex and any kind of timing for these investments?
M
Michael Murray49:10
Great question. So, the OLED deposition line that we're going to install in Westboro has the benefit of being able to use the backend processing machinery that we already have or will be installing as part of our IBAS award. So the overall capex is far less than I would say most people think for this OLED deposition line, but we think the capex that we're going to spend this year is roughly around $5 million over the course of the year and about the same roughly for next year.
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Eric Mans49:46
Hey, hey, we got our answer right there, you know. Yeah. Moderate, conservative, yeah, just what we need on the capex, you know, not shooting for the moon. Don't need to, right? We'll be able to meet the demand with what we're planning on spending. I think that's what the market liked hearing right there.
J
Jason Schmidt50:04
Yeah. Like I was saying, market likes certainty. So, if we get certainty, if we get clear forecast, clear guidance, clear growth objectives, that's great. That's something people want to invest in because they know where their money's going and what is likely to happen. If it's a bunch of we don't know when this is happening, this might happen here, here, here, here. No, we want to hear certainty. We want dates. We want assurances and if we hear that the market likes that, valued it's in a good field with the defense and infrastructure. I mean, lots of winning confluences with it which is reflecting in this call and current pre-market moves especially when the market's red today, futures are opening red and this is going crazy. So very cool inverse right now we're seeing, nice.
J
John Figman50:47
Okay. Thank you for the time.
O
Operator50:51
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Christian Schwab from Craig-Hallum Capital Group. Please go ahead.
C
Christian Schwab50:59
Michael, on the first-person view, the opportunity there, you know, seems in particular quite massive here in the United States. I think the government has already approved a million, I think these are the rough numbers, a million drone units with roughly a third of them supposed to be first-person view. And the next potential budget from the government takes that to 3 million with roughly the same type of percentage of units for first-person view. So, given your strength there with peripheral awareness, and the complexity of the goggles that were under the assumption that you made for that kind of suggest that the price of something like that would probably approach roughly $1,000, you know, is that in the ballpark, meaning that if you ship 40,000 of them, you know, the order you have in hand with the Drone Dominance Awards already approved is a massive tailwind for the company. Am I thinking about that correctly?
M
Michael Murray52:27
Indeed you are. Christian, I would not have spent the money to put in an OLED deposition line if we didn't see tremendous demand from very real customers that we vetted and are participating in these conversations with the Department of War and I think your assumptions are correct. The numbers that we're seeing as congressional line items of record are 1 million drones in the budget this year and a third of those will be first-person view. 3 million in 2027-28 time frame. A third of those will be first-person viewers and out of the drone dominance competition, we can confidently say that we're in several of them with our Sentinel product. Either selling displays or selling a display with an optic or selling a full Sentinel device. So we have three different ways that we can claim revenue in first-person view drones. But for the audience, I think I was corrected by one of our teammates here in how I was thinking about drones. And the words are very sharp, so I apologize for that, but the words are this. Drones are the new bullets and first-person viewers are the gun. And that stuck with me and that shaped my thinking around the volume potential here in the United States for first-person viewer goggles, for the displays and optics that are required with them and the fact that they have to be by law built here in the United States and they cannot use Chinese materials even glass or OLED materials itself. So that provides Kopin with a very unique opportunity for growth and our customers that know now that we have our own OLED deposition machine coming and will be operational around this time next year producing panels for them are very excited that Kopin will be in this market and definitely driving efficiencies and price and full integrated application-specific solutions for them. So very exciting times for us.
C
Christian Schwab54:40
Thank you for asking why you should point on that clarity. My second question comes back to microLEDs for short-range data center links to replace copper. Obviously massive efficiency and higher speeds and copper cooling needs, energy costs, etc. Some of the competitors who are also engaging in this technology have significantly greater scale. Can you kind of walk us through, I think you kind of hinted at it with quality, yield, and technology and expertise of manufacturing, but can you kind of walk us through your history of producing microLEDs for critical technology and very complex cases that they're used currently in the defense industry that gives you confidence that you'll be able to ramp this successfully and kind of show, I think you hinted to that, working with a couple large USA semiconductor companies already and engaged with you, your confidence of proving this out?
M
Michael Murray56:06
Yes, so I'll start with Kopin has microLEDs in production today and they're very difficult, Christian, to manufacture. I think if you were to ask the companies that have either acquired startups or have tried to build microLEDs before that aren't focused on it or specializing in it, it is very difficult technology to make. As an example, in our 2K monochrome device, there are 16 million individual sub-pixels that we have to get perfect to be able to deliver that device. That is a tremendous amount of engineering and capability and to be able to manufacture that at scale is something that Kopin has worked very diligently on for years and I think our competitors are figuring out that it's not just throwing a bunch of LEDs onto a backplane. It is very difficult technology to build and they're struggling with it and we see them struggling with it. Many of them have approached Kopin to help. So we know how to build this technology. We build it today. It is in production flying in an aircraft today and we invented the bi-directional micro display two years ago. In fact, we demonstrate it actively. We can demonstrate Neural Display which is a bi-directional display today. We demonstrate our microLED that has 1.8 million foot-lamberts of brightness which is about 6-8 million nits of brightness which is basically the level of a laser. And we produce that and demonstrate it today. So, we have all the pieces and more importantly, the Department of War is funding Kopin to build a high-rate microLED production line right here in the United States. And that production line will be capable of millions of units. So, we're in a very good position to be early in this market to lead this market. And we have great relationships and funding now to deliver that technology very early and I think it's going to be a huge revenue driver for us this year of at least $15 million. Next year at least $25 million is what we're seeing right now. Potentially up to $50 million of revenue and the year after that I think this chipset could be larger than our entire defense business. That's my personal opinion. So very large opportunity set for us. We have unique skill set to deliver it and we're here in the United States focused on the number two consumer of AI infrastructure which is the Department of War and the US government.
C
Christian Schwab58:51
Great. Thanks for that clarity. I'll let somebody else ask some questions. Thanks.
M
Michael Murray58:57
Thanks Christian.
O
Operator58:59
Thank you. We take the next question from the line of Josh Sullivan from Jones Trading. Please go ahead.
J
Josh Sullivan59:06
Hey, good morning. Just a follow-up on the commercial interconnect opportunity here. You know, what do you see as the big gating factors for large-scale adoption or what are we going to see publicly over the next 12 to 18 months? You just gave out some guidance figures there or some target figures we'll call them. But curious, you know, what we're going to see publicly kind of from a technology front that shows us that the market is indeed walking towards large-scale adoption.
M
Michael Murray59:34
Great question Josh and welcome to the call and the team. Firstly, you're seeing significant investment from the largest GPU manufacturers in the world. I think it's fair to say Nvidia spent over $6 billion in this space over the last few months.
E
Eric Mans59:53
It's moving too.
J
Jason Schmidt59:55
I was just, I mean I was literally going ahead and pausing this because I was just trying to ask myself have they stopped the trading and I'm actually looking at the option spread and I'm like, wow I've never seen this but the option I'm holding is the $5 call for January. And it immediately jumped up 34%. And then the spread went from at $2.48 a share. And then the spread went from the opening around that mark to a bid of zero and an ask of $4. And I'm like, what? I was trying to process this, listening to that last bit and then I started looking up at the price action and noticed that the volume number was not changing and yeah, sure enough. So, it's halted on the Schwab too, Addie. Good catch there. But, I was struggling with processing that. I always do, man. When that happens, there needs to be something that jumps up on this Thinkorswim that just tells you, 'Hey, trading stopped for a little bit, you know, so you don't have to sit there and wonder like is the app locked up or is my internet connection gone or something?'
E
Eric Mans1:01:16
Yeah, absolutely.
M
Michael Murray1:01:18
We're seeing other GPU...
E
Eric Mans1:01:20
Oh, something else.
J
Jason Schmidt1:01:22
No, no, no. All right. Yeah. Well, he was just talking about Nvidia and $6 billion. I mean that's what I remember.
M
Michael Murray1:01:30
CPU memory companies invest in the same into many startup companies that are out there. And M&A is prevalent right now in this space. I think what we're going to see is demonstrable systems this year at least from Kopin and Fabric AI that will demonstrate the capability of moving photons faster, quicker, cheaper at lower power consumption and lower overall cost than that of copper or fiber optics. And for us more specifically, where we fit isn't everywhere. It is very much focused on chip-to-chip, board-to-board, and rack-to-rack. That's where microLEDs, I think, will find their home because of our ability to transmit data over certain lengths. So, I think you're going to see the market start to segment between those areas of chip-to-chip, board-to-board, and rack-to-rack. I think the differentiating factor is rack-to-rack and then rack-to-external racks or floors where fiber optics are going to be used more predominantly. And then from a copper interconnect perspective, I think that market is going to start to shrink very rapidly as these new technologies get adopted next year and certainly into 2028.
J
Josh Sullivan1:02:56
Got it.
J
Jason Schmidt1:02:57
Okay, so literally right just now all the numbers repopulated. I guess they started trading again. We're down to $5.91 on the share price, but we got a spread of $1.85 to five bucks on the ask for those $5 calls for January. So, and 11 have traded hands, but we are up probably 20% open interest over yesterday's open interest number was in the 5,000s. We're 6,292 now. So, yeah, man. This is our best call, I think. In terms of just what's going on during the call, you know, with the market. Hey, pretty good lead-in for Andis. Yeah. This got me totally distracted. I hadn't even checked on this price this morning.
E
Eric Mans1:03:48
I think it's down right now. I was looking AMPX was up, but yeah, we'll see what happens on the earnings call for it. It's been quiet, so I think it's ready to go for a ripper about Dell. We'll see.
J
Jason Schmidt1:04:00
Yeah. Yeah. Well, we had a strong day yesterday. You know, a good start to the week. We can see if they can keep up the momentum here. Kopin definitely has some momentum rolling and I like how they're setting up to under-promise and over-deliver going into this year. This gives me a lot of, this is adding to conviction on top of conviction.
E
Eric Mans1:04:24
Absolutely.
J
Josh Sullivan1:04:25
And just given DoD's investment in your high-rate production line, how quickly does defense and intelligence market move and are there any funding line items that we can point to in the budget or elsewhere that might show that we're seeing some advancement as well?
M
Michael Murray1:04:41
You bet. So, right now, Kopin is actively working with multiple four-letter agencies to align funding. As an example, NIST has a BAA funding line with multiple billions of dollars listed on it. Also, the CHIPS Act also has many billions of dollars available for AI infrastructure available and we are actively working with those funding agencies and funding lines as we sit here today.
J
Josh Sullivan1:05:18
And then just one last one, you know, on the retrofit opportunity, how do you clear on that? And then just, you know, how does that maybe play out?
M
Michael Murray1:05:29
Great question. So either by luck or by intelligence, I'm not sure which one. Kopin's microLED product is programmable. So one of the things that I started when I joined Kopin is software-defined everything. And if we're able to use a programmable microLED to interface to the brownfield, meaning already existing AI infrastructure, meaning an H100 or an older CPU as an example, and we're able to interface to those CPUs or GPU boards, either in a board-to-board configuration, as an example, or rack-to-rack configuration, we can program our chip to talk to the brownfield, the existing equipment and then our receiver side will be talking through programmability to the new chip potentially an H200 or B300 or whatever it might be. And that programmability sets us apart as well and we're doing so because a lot of the customers that we talk to do not want to rip and replace their entire system. A, it works, B, it's very difficult to change and C, it's already paid for. So we want to be very flexible but we can always move to more of an ASIC platform to remove the cost of programmability but I don't think that's the right thing to do right now. I think getting programmable microLEDs called Neural IO to our customers and in our customers' hands will further the adoption rate and allow that adoption rate to increase more exponentially if it's programmable.
J
Josh Sullivan1:07:10
Great. Thank you for the time.
M
Michael Murray1:07:12
Great question.
E
Eric Mans1:07:14
That was a good question.
O
Operator1:07:15
Thank you. That's the big market question. Please start and...
E
Eric Mans1:07:21
That whole market of converting the next question from...
A
Analyst1:07:29
Hi, good morning. So just my first question here, if we think about the market opportunity for Neural IO optical transceivers and data centers, do you expect to yield the highest margins within the US domestic market particularly for DoD or intelligence community data centers or are you also looking overseas to data centers in like Europe and the Middle East where you could potentially enter those markets and do you think you'd have favorable margins there?
M
Michael Murray1:08:00
Great question. So, yes, in the United States, I think Kopin is very unique in our focus. And going back to a question that I get asked all the time, why Fabric AI? And often, Fabric is there to focus on the hyperscaler markets and staff appropriately with the people that know that market and understand that market. While Kopin understands the defense, Department of War, and the government market specific to four-letter agencies, etc., we know how to talk to those folks. We sell to those folks today and we're actively engaged in that market. And I think we're a very unique supplier in this case. Since the Department of War is paying for this production line in the first place, they get the benefit of not only paying for that production line, but as we utilize it with Neural IO, it brings down our costs and increases our absorption rate of that production line for our color microLED program, which, you know, the government wins twice in that case. So yes, I think there's better margins in the United States government and defense industry for this technology. In terms of European and Southeast Asia and NATO, quite frankly, we haven't reached a partnership yet. We're not engaged in those conversations yet. And we are working to have some partnership discussions with folks that are in that market and can support us in those areas, but we're not there yet.
A
Analyst1:09:34
Okay. And if I shift over to talk about Sentinel FPV, if we think about the opportunity within like drone dominance, the $54.6 billion for drone autonomous working group and then US domestic headsets for like commercial drone applications. Are there any drones that the headsets would not be compatible with like fiber optic drones versus ones that are wireless and use computer vision?
M
Michael Murray1:10:09
If it has a camera on it and is controlled, we can use Sentinel FPV. The question becomes is do you need to use a headset versus a panel? And if it's for the smaller drone sets, the individual strikers as an example, what we're seeing is that the warfighter wants to be able to have that first-person viewer on their helmet and be able to remove it or at least look through it and have that dual situational awareness that we talked about and the ability to flip up that headset so they can fight. So in terms of the soldier-worn, soldier-borne type of system, I think we have a great product in Sentinel and it would be used for the vast majority of those drones. Specific to the 1 million to 3 million drones, we think a third of those will be using first-person viewers that are either helmet-mounted or glass-mounted on the face.
A
Analyst1:11:12
Awesome. Thanks for the call. I'll pass.
E
Eric Mans1:11:14
The inflation stuff data.
O
Operator1:11:17
Thank you.
E
Eric Mans1:11:18
Say again.
J
Jason Schmidt1:11:19
I was just going to say it looks like the market's shaking off some of the inflation data as well. We opened up pretty red, but we're seeing some real rallying on this, the mega-cap positions and small caps alike. So, that's pretty cool. And Kopin is moving. Hopefully we don't get halted again. We'll see what happens.
E
Eric Mans1:11:38
Right? Yeah, man. Halt it, man. Yeah. Keep them wanting more.
O
Operator1:11:43
I mean, if there are no further questions, I will now hand the conference over to Michael for disclosing comments.
M
Michael Murray1:11:52
Wonderful operator. Thank you very much. And thank you to everyone joining us today. We appreciate your continued support and look forward to updating you on our progress in the months to come. If you have any further questions, please feel free to reach out to our IR firm MZ Group who would be happy to answer them and or set a call with management for a follow-up. Thank you all very much. Have a great day.
E
Eric Mans1:12:14
All right.
J
Jason Schmidt1:12:15
Thank you.
E
Eric Mans1:12:17
Yeah. So, that was it. No, nice wrap up. Let's get back to work. Thank you very much for your time.
J
Jason Schmidt1:12:24
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this is, I'm loving what I'm hearing, man. They're just getting things done. They're making good on promises. That's everything you want to see in a stock that you're bullish on on an earnings call. I mean, I think that's probably one of the better earnings calls that we've listened to in recent memory in terms of updates, but also giving us, you know, clear guidelines without giving away too much. I think they just handled that very well. I like the CEO a lot and, yeah, really excited to watch this one very closely moving forward and start getting some content pumped out on it. So, it sounds like it's definitely deserving of that. So yeah, very excited to allocate a larger Kopin position here soon and hopefully go to that conference at the end of May would be cool as well.
E
Eric Mans1:13:13
Right. Right. And you know, if that doesn't work out they've got another one in Boston in a few months. I can't remember exactly when. I think it's in about 3 months. But that might coincide with not only maybe the next earnings call or getting some face time with management because their headquarters is there. But the new manufacturing facility, I think it's in Massachusetts, Westboro. I don't know the geography that well but it's probably fairly close to where their headquarters is. So we've got that as a backup for sure. And yeah, I'm pleased as punch with this one. This is a great, great call.
J
Jason Schmidt1:14:00
Yes, sir.
E
Eric Mans1:14:01
Yeah, great call. Great move. You know, hey, I would say too with especially these last several weeks, Kopin has had a tendency to have some 10% or so intraday swings, you know. So, the higher we get now, the bigger those swings get in terms of a dollar. So, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to see it come all the way down into fives and push back up. It's been a lot of, I can't wait to dig in and see what the institutional ownership situation is looking like and then follow it and see if it increases from here. I believe as of now it's about 50% give or take has been accumulated on these and those were some pretty big names asking questions in there as well following this company. So, cost basis on my shares, they're up so up 70% just on shares. So it's pretty cool. Yeah, if you call these small caps early, how much they can actually rise without the use of any leverage or options. As long as you just get in early and you figure out the company's good. I mean, hey, a 70% return, it's just as good as a great options play and the hold wasn't that long. So, it's very cool to see.
J
Jason Schmidt1:15:18
Yeah. You know, that's the beauty of the whole market and living in America, man. You know, it's kind of, I was thinking the other day, it's kind of like golf, you know, they don't ask how, just how many. You know, it doesn't matter if it's Chewy or Kopin or ARM or Nvidia or some stock you've never heard of. You know, I'm constantly amazed at coming across companies I never heard of that are billion-dollar companies, you know. So, I think a lot of people are not going to hear about Kopin moving forward. I think they kind of proved that. So, it's going to be an exciting one to watch.
E
Eric Mans1:15:54
You know, it's going to show up when it gets trading stopped in the first few minutes, you know, during an earnings call. I imagine it was during, they might have wrapped that up before the open actually happened. I kind of lose track when we're pausing and doing the commentary. You know, there was something else too I wanted to mention about Kopin. And one of the reasons I bought into them is that, and it didn't really come up a whole lot. I didn't jot down Anduril anywhere, did I? So, I'm not even sure if Anduril came up, but you know, Palmer Luckey is the guy that started up Anduril and, you know, with the whole trying to change the whole approach to defense procurement, you know, in addition to and at the same time the design and infusing all of this new technology that's coming at us so fast here in these last 5-10 and over the next five for sure. But Palmer Luckey made his nut with the FPV virtual reality glasses, you know, sold it to Facebook, right? Yeah. Or something. Yeah. So for him to be, rather than designing his own technology for his own FPV stuff and own micro displays and whatnot with the things he's coming up with over there at Anduril, which is quite a lot, says a lot to me because Kopin is the one that's tied in with that helmet that they're making, you know, so that's tied in with Palmer Luckey. So yeah, these, the guys with game know who else has game, you know, and so that said a lot to me once I realized that and that would be my response to the competition question coming on board with these optical transceivers which is what they're using rack-to-rack, chip-to-chip, you know, stack-to-stack, whatever. You know, and them already producing these things and manufacturing them at scale. So, they're ahead of the game. Palmer Luckey is the one that could have went with his own technology that he sold to Facebook. Instead, he's going with these guys. I'm sure he, but, you know, and so he really knows that. He knows a lot but he definitely knows that angle and that technology space so yeah, very exciting stuff man, no doubt about it. You know, we might can wrap it here. We didn't get a chance to put out an announcement but you still want to do some Trader Daddy stuff here live, maybe take a break and get on that, I don't know. I just don't know, well there actually could be some plays today we'll see with the CPI that, I mean, I haven't actually looked this morning at the live flow, but I guess when if it is a red day and the market's going to shake it off and we might see some neutral activity of people layering in some calls for a correction. Let's see. Market sentiment, I'm assuming, is going to be bearish just based on what I'm seeing. Yeah, QQQ bearish for order flow. Pretty. Yeah, we have some large puts coming in on TSM. Yeah, maybe later today. Yeah, we could definitely look at some stuff for sure. Otherwise...
J
Jason Schmidt1:19:57
Yeah, if there's not a great day for it, you know, unless things are really sliding and there's some action on the put side. There's always some action with it either way, puts or calls. It's just like I want to wait till more data flows in on the daily just to see if there are any like high conviction plays going in, a lot of money going into something and just at open right now it's, you know, a bunch of mega caps but there's a really, really big TSM put, $20 million for one-month puts which actually is interesting me a lot. I want to check on that. Otherwise right now usually I'm looking for some smaller companies where there was a large amount of premium on like a short-dated option without much news making me think, you know, someone knows something, that's my favorite thing to trade. I gave that call on like Oxy yesterday and that went like 3%, was going like 2% after hours because it was petroleum, looks like it jumped down a bit pre-market but yeah, absolutely was cooking overnight a couple other ones. But yeah, either later today or tomorrow we can link up and then we'll do some live Trader Daddy stuff just to go over it because I know a lot of people are curious on the platform how it works and how to use it. And we did do the hour-long demo, but we have some more demos coming too. So yeah, a lot of stuff on that front.
E
Eric Mans1:21:26
Yeah. Yeah. Maybe we get some guest-submitted tickers to look up and evaluate on the platform as well.
J
Jason Schmidt1:21:34
Oh, that'd be fun.
E
Eric Mans1:21:35
Yeah. Yeah, that'd be fun. Okay. Yeah, I'll schedule something. Then we should, yeah, we'll do a Trader Day today and have people come on, bring tickers they want to look at and we can analyze and that'd be fun. See if there's any flow on there.
J
Jason Schmidt1:21:50
All right. All right. Well, good luck. Let us know if you guys still like Kopin. If you're looking at it and want to join in on investing with it, just let us know. We'd like to know if folks are following us on this or at least following the plays, you know. Might be a good play for starting to sell some cash-secured puts or moving into it with puts, with sold puts, you know. So yeah, we'll see. All right.
E
Eric Mans1:22:22
All right. Well, thank you everyone. Thank you Benny. We will see you guys later. That was Kopin. Very, very good. I think...
J
Jason Schmidt1:22:29
Absolutely. All right. Thanks everybody. Appreciate you coming in.
E
Eric Mans1:22:32
Thanks everyone.