An interview with Dr. Habil Khorakiwala.
Especially after what's happened in the last 48 hours, or maybe I can say over the last two years, would essentially be now trying to figure out how is it that he, who's gone through this whole journey, thinks of Wockhardt if I can call it Wockhardt 2.0, and matching up the short-term benefits with the long-term goals that might have come up. And Dr. Khorakiwala, thank you so much for joining in. My colleagues were telling me, 'Nidhi, do you want to go and interview him?' And I'm like, I absolutely will go and talk to him. I don't want anybody else to do this. I'm wanting to ask you, are you a relieved man today or are you now an even more ambitious man today?
In the sense that actually I'm 83 years old today, right? And you see the energy, both mental and physically, I'm very fit, God's grace. But personally, I feel I have to build a new organization in the next three or four years. It is that important because a business organization is very different for new drugs than what we used to do, you know, generic drugs, biosimilar drugs. In terms of business, it is more commercial. Whereas a new drug is all science and medical approach fundamentally. And now that kind of skill sets to manage, collect, and do it is a very different order. And the method and approach you use is of a different order and different dimension. Because when a new drug is there, a doctor is reluctant to use any new drug, however scientifically you can try to tell him, especially our drug which is an antibiotic which is used in critical cases.
And he has a critical patient. So whatever he has used, he knows the side effect. He knows it damages kidney, liver, but he has used it for five years, 10 years. So he's comfortable.
So it takes time for him to adopt a new drug, and unless the medical and scientific part is communicated properly and effectively through various means.
Okay. I can imagine. Okay. Wow. So, well, in 15 minutes I have to club all of that. So I'm going to try and make it quick because I have a lot of questions for you, sir. First, now that you've got both US FDA and DCGI approval, what are the tentative launch timelines? Both US and India both.
About six months. Both about six to seven months. Yeah. A few months here and there.
Okay. And what's your expectation about the approvals from some of the other regions? Europe we have already filed in Jan.
Which was about three months later than USA, three to four months. So we'll get in three to four months. Because this is fast track everywhere in the world. USA gave a date, 31st May, six months back, and they stuck to the date. Similarly, European authority has given some date, but the method of calculating is different, so I don't know exactly. So that is what there. And Europe we will be introducing a little later because it requires a price approval at every country.
So generally, if you market in USA, it will take one year more to go into Europe.
Okay. What do you expect the initial sales traction to be like in the first six to 12 months? And what would Zaynith's contribution be, for example, for Wockhardt as a company, let's say in FY27, FY28, as the case may be?
See, '27 there would not be very much because hardly two, three months are there initially. '28 certainly we will have some contribution coming. But the peak comes, not peak comes, it really takes off after about 12 to 18 months. Because initial time, as I mentioned, everywhere it takes to enter the hospital, get the doctor convinced, they will use it, they will experience it. Our advantage, unlike other molecules, is we have compassionate patient use, which means there's a lot of real-life data. Clinical trial is not real-life data, but this is very real-life data. And they are used in extreme cases. So we are going to have case studies of each case. So we believe that is one way to overcome the initial fear. And the very fact 80 patients means at least 60, 80 doctors have used it.
And six of them are American patients.
Got it. Okay. Well, in which case, sir, could you tell us how is it that you are going about the distribution or licensing conversations at all? Because you've spoken about lab to market. Would you do this entirely in-house? Would you want to pursue some other methodology or routes?
We explored the licensing route for the US. We explored, but we also simultaneously created an alternative to do it ourselves.
So both were running parallel.
Because I said if I don't have a choice, I won't get the value in licensing. But if I have a real choice, so we chose to go ourselves.
For two reasons. One is, okay, it's not a one-molecule company. We are going to have over the years a number of drugs coming in. So we are building up a business. From the beginning, I had a concept of a business, not a research organization, of course. So unless I complete that... Second is, we saw for research, we thought new drugs will not come, that's why we were there. Similarly, if large pharmaceutical companies worldwide don't have the research molecules of their own, where is their business? So there is a white space we see.
And that is what we want to capture.
For how long, for how long do you think, sir, this white space exists for?
Our idea is we don't give up our white space, okay? Because we are the most successful antibiotic research organization in the world. We've got six drugs US FDA has given. No company has got more than one or two.
And these are research boutique companies. And we have 360 degrees, everything. We do about 15 different disciplines you require. And I have, tomorrow I build a business organization.
Sure, you have the entire space for yourself, but it will take... it's another... that's why it's a very challenging situation.
And you're driven for it. Okay, so let me try and piece this together, sir.
Second, I have got talent available. Okay? Because if big guys are not going to do, we experienced this in US. I got the best people available in US. Collectively, what I have, even a large multinational may not have. Because all new Zenic in US would be surprised in the industry.
Got it. Okay. Okay. So then piecing this together, sir, you want to do 2.0, build it out as you said in the next three, four years as the case may be. You are going to do this in-house and not in partnership, because the market was rife with this belief that you, for the US geography for example, you will partner or sell the Zenic rights to a US entity instead of trying to build it out in the US. You are saying you're not going to do that, you'll do everything in-house. How does the roadmap look like over the next, let's say, six to 18 and 12, 30 months? Let's say if I look 30 months, what does it look like? Revenues, margins, etc.
See, the question is, it is first 12 to 18 months, we hope that we either will break even with our own cost of business or make a small profit.
Okay. But after that, top line is my bottom line, right?
And what's the peak sales visibility you reckon, sir? Let's say, let's say FY29, FY30.
That is a tough question, but I know my peak is 1.5 to 2 billion for the life of the product.
That starts, you reckon, FY30?
No, peak won't come as early as '30, but it may take another one or two years more.
Okay. Okay. But the trajectory will start from FY...
Trajectory starts from FY29.
