Former Chairman, President & Chief Executive Officer, Lockheed Martin
David Rubenstein Show: Phỏng vấn CEO Marillyn Hewson tập đoàn Quốc Phòng lớn nhất nước Mỹ
David Rubenstein: Nhà sáng lập và điều hành quỹ Carlyle Group - quỹ đầu tư tư nhân. Ông đã phỏng vấn các nhà lãnh đạo hàng đầu của Mỹ và các quốc gia khác để khám phá hành trình dài và rất thành công của họ.
CEO Lockheed Martin là Ms. Marillyn Hewson nói về con đường vào đại học và trở thành giám đốc điều hành của một trong những nhà thầu quốc phòng lớn nhất nước Mỹ và trên thế giới trong chương trình "The David Rubenstein Show: Peer-to-Peer Conversations.
Hightlight các đoạn chính trong bài phỏng vấn
1. Artificial Intelligence: 13:23
2. Sikorsky Helicopter: 14:45
3. The biggest challe...
About Marillyn Hewson
Marillyn Hewson, former chairman, president, and CEO of Lockheed Martin, announced during a May 2020 investor conference that Jim Taiclet would succeed her as president and CEO on June 15, 2020, with Hewson moving into an executive chairman role. She described the company as "very strong and stable" with a record backlog of approximately $144 billion, and stated that Taiclet, who had served on Lockheed Martin's board for over two years and had a military background, was a good fit for the company's culture. During the same call, Hewson noted that the company had reduced its sales outlook for the F-35 program by about $375 million due to COVID-19-related supply chain disruptions, and that it had accelerated payments to suppliers. In earlier public remarks, Hewson discussed her personal background, including growing up in a family led by a widowed mother and funding her own education at the University of Alabama, where she earned undergraduate and graduate degrees. She frequently spoke about the importance of innovation, citing Lockheed Martin's Skunk Works legacy and programs such as the F-35 and hypersonic technologies. Hewson also emphasized the need for STEM education and diversity in the workforce, stating that "bringing together people with different backgrounds, experiences, and perspectives drives innovation and delivers business results." She described Lockheed Martin as a "national asset" and said she was "humbled" to serve as its first female CEO.
Transcript (91 segments)
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David Rubenstein0:03
Do you think that women can run defense companies better than men, or they can run all companies better than that?
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Marillyn Hewson0:11
I'd say, David, it's a team sport, isn't it? It isn't all about me.
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David Rubenstein0:14
Donald Trump sent out a tweet saying that your biggest product, the F-35, was too expensive.
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Marillyn Hewson0:22
I personally engaged, my team engaged, to have a chance to have a dialogue with him.
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David Rubenstein0:25
What's so unique about the F-35?
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Marillyn Hewson0:27
It is the most advanced fighter in the world.
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David Rubenstein0:29
You were recently voted the 22nd most powerful woman in the entire world.
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Marillyn Hewson0:33
I get a note from my brother that said, 'Well, why was Oprah higher than you?' or something like that.
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David Rubenstein0:40
Would you fix your tie, please?
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Marillyn Hewson0:42
Well, people wouldn't recognize me if my tie was fixed, but okay, just leave it this way.
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David Rubenstein0:55
I don't consider myself a journalist. Nobody else would consider myself a journalist. I began to take on the life of being an interviewer, even though I have a day job of running a private equity firm. How do you define leadership? What is it that makes somebody tick? Since you've been the CEO, the stock has gone up roughly 330 percent. The market capitalization is up roughly 280 percent. Another company that you compete with, General Dynamics, has a female CEO as well, and their stock is up about 250 since she became... let's see, how that's Phoebe Novakovic. Do you think that women can run defense companies better than men, or they can run all companies better than that?
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Marillyn Hewson2:02
I would just say, David, it's a team sport, isn't it? It isn't all about me on the performance of our company, but I'm really proud about what our team has been able to accomplish over the last five, six years. I mean, my sixth year as CEO.
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David Rubenstein2:15
So when you walk into the shareholders meeting, so they give you a standing ovation, it must be pretty happy.
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Marillyn Hewson2:18
We have some happy shareholders, yes, but they always, you know, they always keep a beat on us to make sure that we're constantly creating value. So it's what have you done for me lately.
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David Rubenstein2:28
Okay, during the transition of the president of the United States, Donald Trump sent out a tweet saying that your biggest product, the F-35, was too expensive. And I think you were out of the country at the time.
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Marillyn Hewson2:42
I was. I was in Israel where we were delivering their first two F-35s.
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David Rubenstein2:46
So what was your reaction to the president of the United States tweeting that you were charging the US government too much?
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Marillyn Hewson2:52
Well, first of all, we needed to get those aircraft delivered. And you know, one of the most interesting things was that Prime Minister Netanyahu, he was at that event, and he asked me about the fact that our new president was going to get a better price on those aircraft, and you know, maybe he should get a rebate on the ones that we were delivering. So that presented a bit of a challenge. But you know, what was important was to recognize what our president-elect was communicating. I mean, he was trying to communicate to the American people that he was going to get good deals on the equipment that he purchased, and that he was going to increase defense spending, but he's going to make sure that he spent the taxpayers' dollar wisely. And so I personally engaged, my team engaged, to have a chance to have a dialogue with him.
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David Rubenstein3:41
So you did give him a little discount.
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Marillyn Hewson3:44
We drove the price down, yes. We got the deal done, and we did it in an accelerated fashion, and he definitely had an influence on that.
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David Rubenstein3:52
Now, since he's been president, the defense budget is now higher than it's ever been. I think over, when you count everything, over 700 billion dollars annually. So is this a great time to be a defense company CEO?
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Marillyn Hewson4:00
Well, let me just put it in perspective for you. We're certainly encouraged by the fact that our country is now spending more on defense, but if you just sort of look back over the last few years, we're playing catch-up in a large way. I mean, certainly want to maintain our technological superiority over our adversaries or over the potential adversaries. What it's meant for industry is that we managed through that downturn just like any well-managed company, but we didn't invest at the level that we would have in terms of innovation, in terms of other areas of the business because we were in a down cycle. Now with the upcycle, it's time for us to really bring forth the innovations and continue to spend the efforts that we had to align with the priorities of our customers.
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David Rubenstein4:46
So do you need a security clearance, and how long does it take to get one of those?
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Marillyn Hewson4:53
Well, you know, 6,000 of our employees have security clearances, so it's a very important element of our business. I personally have to have certain... we have some sensitive and classified information that I need to be briefed on, so I have the appropriate clearance associated with that.
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David Rubenstein5:08
So let me talk about your background. You grew up in Kansas, and your father died when you were nine years old, and you had four siblings, and with your mother's support, five children.
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Marillyn Hewson5:22
Well, it was tough, frankly. I mean, my father was with the Department of the Army, and my mother was the at-home mom with five children, and it knocked the props out of... you know, we were an average family, but it set us back a lot. But I give great credit to my mother who raised five children on her own, and she just passed away a couple years ago at 97. So I mean, an incredible life that she had. And she was from Alabama. She taught us the value of a dollar. You know, we had to learn how to economize at a very young age. She'd send us in to pay the power bill, the electric bill. She just got her kids out, said, 'You've got to learn how to do these things because you've got to be...' It taught me to be very self-reliant, I would say.
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David Rubenstein6:10
Well, I was told that she used to say to you, 'Go to the grocery store, here's five dollars, and bring back seven dollars of groceries.'
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Marillyn Hewson6:15
Yes, true. Learn how to economize. So I learned early how to economize, yes.
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David Rubenstein6:22
Okay, so you went to University of Alabama, and did you get a scholarship, and you didn't have to work?
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Marillyn Hewson6:28
Oh no, I didn't have a scholarship. I worked nights. I worked on what was called the graveyard shift, so to speak, from 11 to 7 in the morning, and then I went to class from eight to one or two, and then I'd sleep, unless I had a date, and then I'd go right back to work without sleeping, because you can do that when you're 18 or 19 years old. But yes, I worked full-time, paid my own way through school, finished in three and a half years, and you know, you do what you had to do.
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David Rubenstein6:59
So after you graduated, did you say, 'I want to be the CEO of Lockheed Martin,' or what did you say?
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Marillyn Hewson7:07
I looked for a job, and I took a job as an economist here in Washington with the Bureau of Labor Statistics out of college. They were in the midst of redoing the producer price index. It was a good job for a grad student to come in, and so I actually started my career here. Four years later, we looked for the next position, and I interviewed at several companies, one of which was Lockheed in Marietta, Georgia, and started there as a senior industrial engineer.
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David Rubenstein7:32
So when you went to Marietta, Georgia, you worked your way up. You had, I think, 22 different leadership positions, so you must have been moving around a lot.
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Marillyn Hewson7:39
I was in Marietta for about 13 years. 18 months in, I was promoted to supervisor in industrial engineering, and then about the two-year mark, I was put on a general management development program. And great credit to a sponsor that put me forward for the program. So I spent two years rotating around the company, and at the end of the two years, I was a manager over all of our production estimating and budgets.
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David Rubenstein8:05
Now, at one point, your husband was unemployed, and he got a job interview with a company, and what company was that?
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Marillyn Hewson8:13
Surprised me a bit. His company went out of business, and so he was out looking for a job. We had a five-month-old baby, so we were very much hoping he'd find a job. And it was a tough labor market at the time, but he came home one day and he said, 'Okay, I got a job.' And I said, 'Where?' And he said, 'Lockheed.' And I went, 'I think I'm sorry,' I said, 'What? Why my company?' You know, but it just turned out he went to work in the finance department. We didn't really cross paths. I was running industrial engineering by that time. But it's interesting, for about five years, he retired from Lockheed after five years.
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David Rubenstein8:47
So you have given him a lot of credit for what you've been able to achieve, because you might describe, if he retired, he took on the role that, you know, many people would say a woman might have normally taken, the wife, and he took on that traditional role. Is that fair to say?
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Marillyn Hewson9:00
Yes. I say he retired. I mean, our kids were three and six, two boys, and we moved from Marietta, Georgia, to Fort Worth, Texas, because my job moved. And so at that time, you know how stressful it is to have a couple of young children at home, and so I said, 'Well, why don't we try you working from home for a year?' And we just never changed the model. So he became the at-home dad. He was the coach, he was the scout leader, he went on the field trips, and he managed that because I traveled a lot in my job. And we were maybe a new-age family back then in the way that we worked, but it worked for us. And today our kids are in their 20s and they're off doing their thing. But when I said he retired, he basically, at that five-year mark, he got a retirement check from Lockheed Martin not long ago. So yeah, he's five years, right?
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David Rubenstein9:54
So I guess he's happy with the shareholder performance as well.
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Marillyn Hewson9:58
Yes, he is.
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David Rubenstein10:00
It costs a lot of money to make the Marine One because you've got to have all kinds of security things in there.
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Marillyn Hewson10:04
That's right. You know, it's based on the S-92, which is a great commercial helicopter. If you're interested in a helicopter, David, I'd suggest you look at maybe... maybe get something good and a good deal, get a discount if you buy two or something else. We can do a deal.
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David Rubenstein10:36
Now let's talk a moment about the product I mentioned earlier, the fighter jets. Now, I've known for a long time there's an F-14, F-15, F-18, there was an F-22, and then you'd come up with something called the F-35. What happened between 22 and 35?
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Marillyn Hewson10:53
Well, the fact is that aircraft are not numbered by Lockheed Martin. I mean, the US government determines what the number is. So an F standing for a fighter, a B for a bomber, you know, the terminology is kind of general, and usually it is sequential. We won the contract with our X-35, which was the experimental... you know, you name them with an X or a Y if they were experimental or a prototype. So we had named our offering in this competition, but when they announced the winner, Lockheed was the winner, and the Secretary of the Air Force said, 'The F-35,' and we were all shocked because we thought it was going to be the F-23. So once he named it, that's what number it became.
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David Rubenstein11:43
You didn't want to tell him he made a mistake, I guess. He's the word of the contract. But so in the history of our country, this is the biggest defense contract ever, tens of billions of dollars, I assume. Why does it cost that much to make these planes, and what's so great about this plane? What's so unique about the F-35?
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Marillyn Hewson11:59
The F-35A, which is your conventional variant of the aircraft, was priced at 94.3 million dollars, and we're on a path to drive that down to 80 million dollars by 2020. Think about that. You know, you think about if you fly maybe a Gulfstream or something, think about what you can do for that, and think about the most sophisticated jet fighter in the world that might cost 80 million dollars. I mean, that's pretty remarkable in my mind. It is the most advanced fighter in the world. So it is basically a force multiplier. It's a fabulous aircraft, and I don't have to tell you that. Talk to some of the pilots that fly it.
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David Rubenstein12:42
The SR-71 was a very famous plane that I think now is in the Air and Space Museum of the Smithsonian. It went at, I think, six times the speed of sound or something like that.
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Marillyn Hewson12:53
Three times, yeah, very high. There was a rumor in the defense press somewhere that you're making an SR-72. So can you tell us right now, is that true?
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David Rubenstein13:06
We are working on hypersonics, and hypersonics would be something over Mach 5. We're doing work in that technology, and it's important technology. So that's probably all I'm going to say about it.
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Marillyn Hewson13:20
Okay. All right. Okay, let's talk a moment about artificial intelligence. Presumably, that's going to be very important for defense contractors, as it is for other companies.
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David Rubenstein13:29
Well, it's a very important area that we're investing in. We think our customers are looking for solutions and to use that technology. But in artificial intelligence, you can think about... we're working on a helicopter that will be unmanned, so that's an opportunity.
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Marillyn Hewson13:42
Unmanned helicopter?
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David Rubenstein13:44
An unmanned helicopter. We have other unmanned vehicles that we have, but that autonomy and using the artificial intelligence for actually flying... what's the price for the unmannedness? All right, so unmanned helicopter, that sounds pretty novel. But even in the cockpit of our aircraft, you know, it's very... using the artificial intelligence by fusing information in such a way that the pilot doesn't have to... you can't, the human mind just can't move at the same speed as what you can get through that computing power, and so they can make the right decisions to deal with the situation. And we have such things as collision avoidance. So even on our F-16s, and we'll be putting this on our F-35, we have technology there through artificial intelligence that if a pilot doesn't realize that they're about ready to hit the ground, this aircraft will take control and avoid. We've already saved six pilots' lives with that type of technology. So that's just a few examples of how we apply the artificial intelligence.
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Marillyn Hewson14:42
Now, one of your other products is a helicopter. You bought Sikorsky helicopter from United Technologies. Why did you buy it, and are they making the Marine One, which is the president's helicopter, and how much does that cost? But you're into the prices, aren't you?
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David Rubenstein14:58
Today, okay, is trying to get... you know, I'm always negotiating for a good deal, okay.
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Marillyn Hewson15:04
Okay. Well, first of all, yes, we bought Sikorsky. We've worked with them for over 40 years, and so when the opportunity came up, we took the opportunity to buy the company. Great integration into our company. It brings a Black Hawk helicopter, it brings a CH-53K helicopter for the Marine Corps, and as you mentioned, the Marine One. I'm happy to say that that program is on schedule and on cost in producing that. It costs a lot of money to make Marine One because you've got to have all kinds of security things in there, so it's not something you can sell to any other country, I assume.
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David Rubenstein15:37
So you only make, what, 23 of them you're going to make, or something like that?
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Marillyn Hewson15:41
That's right.
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David Rubenstein15:43
And when are they going to be available?
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Marillyn Hewson15:46
I think it's 2019 or so that it'll be cool. So, but I was going to mention to you, you know, it's based on this S-92, which is a great commercial helicopter. If you're interested in a helicopter, David, I'd suggest you look. I mean, you know, I think they're only around, you know, some 35, 40 million dollars. I mean, I'm sure you could do that, negotiate, maybe get something good, get a good deal, get a discount if you buy two or something. We can do a deal.
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David Rubenstein16:10
When you started out, were you often the only woman in the room at Lockheed?
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Marillyn Hewson16:15
I was, but after that, once you're contributing and you're part of the team, it was no longer a factor.
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David Rubenstein16:20
You were recently voted the 22nd most powerful woman in the entire world. Did you say, 'I should be higher,' or did you say...?
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Marillyn Hewson16:27
Um, I should be... that's pretty high. I get a note from my brother that said, 'Well, why was Oprah higher than you?' or something like that. But you know, okay, thank you.
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David Rubenstein16:44
What's it like to be the CEO of our nation's largest defense contractor? You get about 70 percent of your revenue, I think, from the US government. You know, how much of your time do you have to spend with the US government? How do you spend your time, let's say, in a typical week, percentage time?
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Marillyn Hewson17:00
I would say somewhere between 60 to 70 percent of my time is with the strategy of the business, the customers, and engagement around the world, the traveling around the world on the customer side of the business. Because it's important in my role to be out meeting with not only our congressional leaders and our government leaders to make sure we're aligned with what their needs are and their priorities, but I travel a lot outside of the United States. 30 of our businesses are outside of the United States with governments around the world.
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David Rubenstein17:30
You were recently voted the 22nd most powerful woman in the entire world, not just business but everything. So when you saw that, did you say, 'I should be higher,' or did you say...?
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Marillyn Hewson17:42
Um, I should be... that's pretty high. I mean, and how does it feel to be the 22nd most powerful female in the entire planet of 3.6 billion women? You know, I don't focus on it that much, David. I mean, I get a note from my brother that said, 'Well, why was Oprah higher than you?' or something like that. But you know, okay, but you know, that's not something I focus on. There's lots of lists. I mean, it really comes down to having the privilege of leading a national asset and a company that's doing some of the most important and interesting work in the world.
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David Rubenstein18:11
When you started out, were you often the only woman in the room at Lockheed?
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Marillyn Hewson18:14
I was, yes.
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David Rubenstein18:18
And so was that intimidating, or was it a kind of thing where you said, 'I can show them I'm better than them, the men'?
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Marillyn Hewson18:24
You know, I think it's like any team you come into, you have to establish your credibility, recognizing that I was a different gender, so maybe the first moment I was different in that sense. But after that, once you're contributing and you're part of the team, it was no longer a factor for me, at least through my career. But what I'll tell you is really positive is that today, 22 percent of our leaders are women, 24, 25 percent of our workforce are women. So the pipeline of women, it's no longer the 'only one woman in the room.' We have many women leaders in the room, and it's, you know, we've come a long way on the pipeline. Back 35 years ago, there weren't as many women coming out of engineering and other professions to come into the workforce, just as the case was for a customer. But you look at our customer today, look at our military services, how many women are involved, how many men and women, but women are in uniform and in leadership positions. It's just the pipeline issue, and we're always working on that pipeline to get more women.
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David Rubenstein19:24
Okay. And what do you do for relaxation? Are you an exercise person, are you a traveler, or sports, or whatever?
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Marillyn Hewson19:30
I like to play golf. My husband and I like to get out and play some golf as relaxation. Like to travel. I mean, our family gets together and travels. I travel a lot for the job, probably 40, 50 percent of my time I travel on business travel. But one of the things we really enjoy is getting together as a family to travel, and always try to create some fun travel that our kids will find, as long as mom and dad pays for it and it's fun, they'll come.
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David Rubenstein19:55
Some people say that the higher the handicap of a CEO, the better the stock will perform. If it's a low handicap, that means the CEO is spending too much time playing golf. So you're not going to ask me my handicap. Why are you, David? I assume you're... what your handicap is? You're not a scratch golfer?
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Marillyn Hewson20:12
No way, no. I don't play enough for that.
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David Rubenstein20:15
Okay. And today, but it sounds must be pretty low. So you can beat your husband, or is he better than you, or...?
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Marillyn Hewson20:22
No, well, he's better than me, but you know, I always remind him that there's the average for women and there's the average for men. And so as long as I can end up... he has a close putt, you just give it to him, or just let him putt it out now.
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David Rubenstein20:38
So today, what is the biggest challenge the US defense industry has?
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Marillyn Hewson20:42
Well, the challenge that we have is really the challenge our customers have. I mean, we have an environment where the threats today are so difficult around the world, the global security environment is so unpredictable and is changing so rapidly. So you have the need for solutions to address that and to stay ahead of the threat and stay ahead of the adversaries. At the same time, we have constrained budgets and the budget pressures that we faced over the last several years, and maybe we're having to spend money on near-term getting things back up to readiness instead of investing in what we need to address the power competitions that we have out there with our adversaries. So that then in turn is a challenge for industry, because if you haven't been investing along the way, we've got to move with speed while at the same time driving costs down.
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David Rubenstein21:33
And what about cyber warfare? That must be an important part of your business now. How do you make certain that our enemies around the world aren't trying to get your secrets?
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Marillyn Hewson21:43
Well, I can't... I mean, they are trying to get our secrets. I mean, this is a constant threat that a company like ours, and many companies have in the US, of other countries trying to get at our secrets. And we take it very seriously because we know that we are a target, and government customers are a target. So we've invested a lot in the technologies to protect that. But I think it's a constant... you know, these threats are advanced and they're asymmetric and they're constantly changing, and it's really important for us to stay on top of that and keep investing in it.
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David Rubenstein22:16
I mentioned earlier, since you became the CEO, your stock is up. If I bought some stock tomorrow, would I also see a very significant gain in four or five years, or you think the prices are already so high for the defense stocks?
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Marillyn Hewson22:34
I don't comment on stock price today. I think you're really good at that. But I would tell you this: for our company, we are always focused on creating shareholder value. So just know that's our commitment, and we're going to drive the company for growth and for innovation and for shareholder value.
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David Rubenstein22:52
Well, as long as you're the CEO, I'd probably be happy to be an investor. But how long might you be the CEO? Do you have any plans? If the president of the United States called you and said, 'I'd like you to be Secretary of Defense' or something like that, would you entertain that, or you're going to stay where you are for a while?
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Marillyn Hewson23:06
Well, in our company, I mean, I feel very privileged. I love the work that we do. I have a team of remarkable people that I work with that, you know, have the highest integrity, they are so dedicated and so talented. I love working at Lockheed Martin, and I serve at the pleasure of the board of directors. So how long I work will be up to them, but today I'm really enjoying the work that I'm doing, and I have no intention of stepping down from my role.
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David Rubenstein23:33
Whenever you do step down at some point, you might step down at some point, 10 years, 15, 20 years, would you consider the higher calling of private equity?
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Marillyn Hewson23:46
I might very well consider that, David.
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David Rubenstein23:48
Well, whenever you do step down, please let me know.
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Marillyn Hewson23:52
Okay, happy to talk to you. Thank you very much.
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David Rubenstein23:54
Thank you.