How to Communicate with Confidence and Impact, with Chris Marr

Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting that you've mentioned that, Bob. Nice to hear that. You know, it can be very encouraging for people. I don't think we tell people enough these things, so nice to hear. Yeah, my name is Chris Maher. I'm based in Scotland, like you said, we're neighbors. I'm in Dundee, and I'm at home in my cabin right now, which is where I do all my work from, all my coaching work. I work with leaders, coaches, consultants to help them, you know, overcome people-pleasing behaviors, tendencies, which can be everything from saying yes to too many things and being overwhelmed at their work, to feeling stuck, to not really knowing what they want or how to get what they want, to developing their own programs and their own, you know, authoritative version of their work. You know, I go to everything ultimately to help them feel confident to thrive in their work and to be an authority in their space. And so it's leaders, entrepreneurs, coaches, consultants, and I coach them through all of that. So, you know, that's my work these days. I love it, there's so much to it, and I love working with my clients. And that's what I do. And of course, there's all the other things on the side of that, which I love creating content, I love writing and producing my book, of course, 'Become an Authoritative Coach', which was published about a year ago. And I love sharing that sort of wisdom and the things I'm learning with the world. So, you know, you'll see a lot of content from me as well. I just want to help as many people as I can. That's like the mission. As I've got older, in my 40s now, you know, how can I help as many people as I can with the problem that I'm uniquely sort of positioned to help with? And so I just think about that every day. I turn up and I'm just like, who can I help today? What does that look like? And, you know, fortunately I have a handful of clients I'm working with that allows the business to operate well and allows to pay the salaries and things like that. But at the same time, I get time to speculate helping as many people as possible, whether that's people on Instagram or LinkedIn or through a podcast like this. So yeah, it gives you a snapshot into, I don't know, what I get up to, I guess.

Yeah, there's a few things there. Most people are, so a lot of people don't think they want to be coaches, but what they probably don't realize is there's a large element of their work that requires them to be coach-like. And that is a big part of my book. It's not about becoming a coach, it's really about integrating coaching skills into your work, whether you're a leader or a coach, consultant, whatever it might be. Everybody needs to have these skills in, especially when you're working with people, generally speaking. So there's that. And then I think there's the whole idea of like saying what you see is interesting to me because the more feedback I get from my clients, the more I recognize that this is exactly my, like, my job is to do that. Nobody else in their life does what I do. That's the job I do for them. And the reason I know that is because I've asked them. I was like, what is the job that I do that you can't do for yourself and that nobody else is doing for you? And it's like, every time I come into a session with you, Chris, it's like the intense eyes, it's the Scottish accent, and it's like I'm not going to get away with it with you. You're going to call me out on the contradictions, you're going to tell me where I'm getting distracted, and you're just going to raise it, right? I might be wrong about it, but you aren't going to get away with it. And that's why people work with me and continue to work with me, is because I'm able to do these things. And what's interesting about his final point, I think, is this inverse relationship with it. A lot of people think that if they say what needs to be said, if they challenge their clients, if they point out the mistakes they're making, if they shine a light on the behaviors that are holding them back from being successful, if they invite difficult conversations, if they're proactive about having those difficult conversations with clients, they think that risks the relationship. But actually, the opposite is true. If you don't have those difficult conversations, if you don't point out the mistakes, if you don't point out the behaviors that are holding them back from being successful, you become less valuable over time. And so what we have to get good at is recognizing that actually having these difficult conversations is exactly what will galvanize the relationship between you and the client. It's actually what brings you together, it doesn't push them away. And so like the big hump, the big bit, the big gap for most people is them accepting this, right? Number one, this is my job, I have to do it, and overcoming their own difficult feelings about having difficult conversations. And just knowing that, hey, it is not about you, it's about the client. And that is the sort of the number one thing to keep in mind is that, Bob, if you were a client of mine, I would want you to be successful. I want you to win. And therefore, I can't actually sit here silently and watch you make this mistake. I can't sit back and sweep under the carpet and watch you getting in your own way. Like, I have to say something if I truly believe in your potential to be successful at your highest potential. I have to say something. And I think that's the mental model for a coach or for anybody really that's in a position that has a responsibility for the success of other people.

Most people, I think, would benefit from really believing that they are coaches, whether they have the title or not. And because that's so important to me, because as soon as you accept that you have got a responsibility for other people, part of that is about coaching. And so that's step one. Because step two is then realizing that actually I need to learn how to get better at all of this stuff, right? There's a whole set of mental models, mindset, and even heart and soul in it that requires, like, you got to shine a light on all of this stuff, right? So I've been working with some people for years and they still come to me with, help me with this client challenge, help me as a leader to have this difficult conversation with my team. And I'm teaching them the frameworks, I'm teaching them how to have these conversations, we're role-playing them, they're sending me recordings of their team meetings and their one-on-ones so I can, like, right, that section was really good, but over here, look, you need to, next time you have this conversation, it needs to look like this. Let's role-play this. Let's talk about the communication principle that exists here. And so there's so much to it, Bob. Like, this whole set of principles and frameworks and models to help people to communicate at their highest level so that they can actually bring out the best in the people around them. And so, like, and I think this is, I know that not everybody does this, but I do believe that everybody should have a coach. And if you are a coach and you don't have a coach, then to me that's like, it's like a hypocrisy in there, right? It's like you do and you should have a coach. And a lot of successful people have coaches for different elements of their life, right? Where you've got, like, a speaking coach, you've got a physical training coach in the gym, right? You could have, you know, there's coaches for everything. And the reason that, like, a coach is so important is because that person can fast-track you through learning all of this stuff, right? You don't have to guess anymore. You don't have to just work really hard at it. Hire somebody that can show you the path, how to go from where you are to where you want to be, and get there a lot faster. And I think that's the knack of the coach. The coach is there to, in my, like, for me, a unique set of skills, very specific to help you overcome people-pleasing in your work, right? So I think that's what's important is first of all recognizing that as you get older and you become more experienced and you become more valuable in your work, it's less about being on the tools and being a technician, and actually what becomes the number one skill to hone and craft is communication. Because that's how you rally people, that's how you get people bought into ideas, that's how you get people to do things that you need them to do that they don't necessarily want to do, etc., etc. That's how you have really breakthrough conversations with your team members and your clients. That's all communication. So we need to think differently, we need to act differently, we need to behave differently if we want to get different results. And a lot of people, almost everybody, has never had any level of communication training that helps them to do that. They're sort of thrown in the deep end and it's expected to learn. So as soon as you become responsible for other people, communication should be your number one skill to hone and craft. And you're going to need a coach, you're going to need training, you're going to need the books, the podcasts, and everything like that as well. And so I think that really, that's what I'm hearing you asking me really is like, what does that look like?

Yeah, it's a really good, great question. So let's go back a bit. I'll tell you a short story, I guess. So I started learning about all these different communication principles and techniques in order to help me be a great, a really strong, world-class communicator. This goes back about 10 years, maybe 2013, thereabouts, somewhere around about there. I was learning all these principles. I was really just into communication from a very young age. I was actually thrust into being a leader when I was like 18 years old. Suit, tie, here's a hundred people, teach them health and safety, teach them manual, like, I was just thrust into this from a very young age. And so over the years, I've just sort of learned stuff on the job. But there was a time where I was like, right, actually, what does it take to be world-class at this? And so I went to learn all of this stuff from some people. You know, Marcus Sheridan, who is a good friend of mine now, but he was my teacher. He still is the person that teaches me this stuff, and he's my coach, my mentor, and we're business partners now too. And so we started this work together. But to cut a long story short, what happened was I thought I was learning all this stuff and then I was really put on the spot. And this is a big part of anybody's learning is you've got to be put into like a stretch zone, outside of your comfort zone, into a position where you're actually tested. Do you really know this as well as you think you know this? And so I'm in a theater, Marcus is coaching people on the stage, we organized this event, and Marcus asks me to come up to the stage and coach. So he's sort of had as his understudy, asked me to coach somebody on the stage while he's sort of coaching me coach them, if that makes sense. And I absolutely make an ass of myself. It's just the most embarrassing moment. I can just remember this being like, I am way out of my depth here. And so in the break, Marcus and I are backstage, I'm comparing my notes because I'm trying to use understudy, so I'm watching what he's doing on the stage, I'm writing all these notes down, what would I have done, how did he do it, and I'm just looking at my notes, I'm like, how, I can't see what you can see. Like, it's just not there at all. And so I found myself just sort of like going into the shadows of the theater for the next day and just being like, really questioning, like, have I got what it takes? Can I do this? What's going on? And what I realized, Bob, was that Marcus didn't learn any of this in a classroom, right? It wasn't a training session, it wasn't a workbook, it wasn't a book. It was literally reps and reps and reps and reps of putting himself in difficult situations that he had to figure out over decades, like literally 20, 25 years of work from when he was a very young age. And so what I started to realize is that, okay, well, if that's what it's going to take, I'm going to have to go out there and actually do more of the work, the actual work. The other lesson I learned was that what was really getting in my way, Bob, was that I thought I needed to have all the answers. Like, so if I'm coaching someone back then, 10 years ago, I'm turning up and like, God, I need to know all the answers. I'm frantically working in the background how to solve problems. I'm doing all the thinking, thinking it's about me, like I'm the smartest person in the room, they're hiring me, I need to be smart, and all of those things were holding me back from being a great communicator, from being a great coach. So I had to be like, well, it's not about me anymore. I don't have to be the smartest person in the room. I don't have to know all the answers. In fact, having the answers is holding me back from having great questions. And what we've learned is that great questions are actually what great coaches need more than answers. And so I had to kind of like figure, I had to go like within and figure out like, who am I and who I want to be? And that became the journey. It was like, actually, that's what unlocked the coach. And then I literally got thousands of hours of coaching with seven, eight, nine-figure businesses all over the world. And then I was able to kind of make all the mistakes, put myself into difficult situations where clients were coming in saying, Chris, this isn't working, we're not getting the results, we're putting all this time and money, and I had to handle situations like that, you know, and being able to kind of just like cut my teeth around it all. And so it was basically, number one was figuring out that my ego was in my way. The second step was getting over myself. And then the third step was getting the reps in. And maybe that isn't the story that people want to hear, but that's my story certainly. And I was able to, and I guess the fourth part of this, Bob, was just my ability to like document everything as I was going, which has produced a book. There's another book going to be coming out next year. But like, it's, I was able to document everything I was learning as I was going, all the stories, all the situations, the mistakes I made, how I was able to learn from those mistakes and correct them, and then I was able to teach people. So I went from learning, like, about myself was a big journey within, lots of journaling, lots of philosophy, lots of figuring that stuff out, and then being able to, and I think that's really important, I think it probably gets overlooked because the ability for me to be 100% me at all times allows me to be the coach that I need to be for my clients. And I think it's so important.

Yeah, I think there's a lot to be said about the work that happened behind the scenes that nobody else saw, right? Like the stacks of journals and just figuring out like how to get over myself and why I act and behave in certain ways. There's a lot of therapy in there and there's a lot of me hiring my own coaches as well to help me through things too. So like, there's a lot of humbling experiences took place in order to allow me to be a more humble person. And I think a lot of it is like, you're right, it's like, it's not about me. It really isn't about me. It's about my ability to help somebody else to bring out the best in them, right? And that does mean a lot of questions and a lot of curiosity. A lot of people just jump in too quickly with solutions and it's like, that's not it. It's really, nobody really wants to be told what to do. People want to figure out what to do. Can you help them figure that out? And that's to me, that sort of embodies the idea of coaching.

Thanks, Bob. That's great. If you don't have a coaching, if you don't have a coaching-shaped aspect to your business, tell a friend and share it with them.

Well, there's so many, so I'll just put on the spot, but I'll think of, I think the first one is very much about my coaching practice, and I think this is, you've probably had this a million times, which is action cures fear. And this is the difference, I think, between coaching and like therapy or counseling, right? Coaching is all about movement. Can we move this person forward? And I'd say in my more recent coaching experiences, the key is speed. Speed to action. So in terms of a mental model, right, action cures fear. It's like, if you're worried about something, you're ruminating about something, you're losing sleep over something, whatever it might be, the best thing you can do, the best thing you can do is step into it and deal with it. And the reason this is so important is not just for you, but this is your calling. This is what I say to people all the time is like, it's not just action cures fear, it's action leads to growth, right? And so one of the other phrases that comes to mind is, don't wish it was easier, wish you were better, right? Or work harder on yourself than you do your job. And so when I think about that, I think it's not about reading books and going to more courses or listening to more podcasts. It's actually like, what's the difficult thing that you're avoiding in your life that you know if you stepped into it, it would lead to personal growth and professional growth, right? So I think that's number one, is like looking at the things, what's the difficult conversation you're avoiding? What's the difficult decision you're avoiding making? What's something you've got some sort of limiting belief around that's holding you back? What if you just did, what if you built momentum around that thing and actually just stepped into it? What kind of growth would that lead you to? How does that make you better for all the people around you? And how does that reduce your fear around it, give you more confidence? So in other words, there's a gap between where you are and where you want to be. Step into it. Like, that's telling you the obstacle is the way. Do the thing. So that's number one. That's the first mental model that is a major theme in the work that I do. It's usually about how can I get, in this next hour, how can I get this person to take action on the thing that they're avoiding, right?

Yeah, momentum and speed is underrated and wasn't talked about enough. Literally had a coaching call just before this today and that was it. I was like, look, most people drag their heels around this. Go and do like very quick work to get 80% of it done, you know, just like get into it, right? Couple of tactical things I could share with you, right? So AI is a hot topic right now. Like, if you're not using ChatGPT and Fathom to record your calls, and like, if you're not using these tools, you are absolutely without a shadow of a doubt not doing your best work because you're doing work that you do not need to be doing. And so just to give you a couple of examples of how I'm using AI in my business, I think this is really key, is like, I will record, I use Fathom, AI tool, for all my coaching calls, all my client calls. I then use ChatGPT to interpret all the transcripts from those calls to give me emails to send back out to clients in terms of what we covered. I also use ChatGPT to kind of take those transcripts and actually write out, hey, a client asked me like, how do I tackle this, Chris? And I was able to lay out 10 steps. Now I've got a guide, a blog, a framework, a repeatable, teachable thing. So I use it to gather up insights. And I also use the transcripts for my calls to send emails out in advance to the next coaching session I'm having, like, last time we spoke, we talked about these things, come prepared to talk about these things, right? Whatever that might be. And so just give you this idea that like, there's probably a lot of admin work that you're doing, like, it's not a strong point for most entrepreneurs, are not strong on the admin side of things, and therefore they either take too much time doing it or they end up just actually not doing it at all. But what I found is AI, these AI tools, have actually helped me to deliver a much higher level of client service because I wouldn't have done this stuff anyway, right? So I'm using these tools. The other tool that's a hot one for us is Opus Clip, AI tool, which is basically, I'll sit here and record a long-form video about a specific topic, it goes, somebody else does this now, but I will chuck this into Opus Clip, it clips it up into 9-second clips and I've got a week's worth of Instagram videos to go out. And that's driving all our followers on our Instagram account and helping us to build an audience there as well. So Opus Clip, then the introduction of recording tools that have AI, things like ChatGPT and language models, plus Opus Clip, I mean, two years ago this was not possible, right? Or it was somewhat possible, but now it's like you can operate at such a rate that actually can get so much done in a short space of time at a higher quality than you would and more consistently than you would have been doing anyway because of all these tools. Of course, it levels the marketplace, like, the playing field gets leveled because of this, but most people aren't taking advantage of it, not really. And so I find that my ability to ship content and serve my clients and also still have, you know, a third of my calendar free for business development activities is based on my ability to make maximum use of what were like $20 a month tools essentially for AI. So from a business perspective, this stuff, like, again, if you're not using these tools, you are not doing your best work. You just aren't. You should be using these tools so you can replace the time on your calendar with more valuable activities to build your business or whatever it is you want to do. So yeah, that's my second one.

Yeah, there's tons in there. And I'll give you the third one, and the third one's dead easy. It's more of a marketing and sales tactic, I would say. So what we've got so far is like, you know, a mental model, some tools to help your business, and then a marketing model, which is, there's this mental model I have in my head which is close the gap. I think for a long time, for maybe the last 15 years or so, a lot of people in content marketing or any inbound marketing, people or businesses thinking in inbound marketing ways would be like, if I produce all of this content, people are going to come to me. And so what I've recognized is in the last six months after starting this new brand is that I'm not going to wait to be picked by the team captain or whatever. I'm not going to sit here and wait to be picked. So what we do is, and forget email marketing, forget funnels, forget all of that. This is me. If you follow me on Instagram, like, go test it. If you follow me on Instagram @theauthoritativecoach, you will get a message from me saying hi. And it'll say, hi Bob, was there a particular video that you liked on my page? Or are you looking to overcome some sort of people-pleasing habit or behavior that you have right now? And I have a conversation with every single person that follows my account on Instagram. Every single person. It's a very manual activity. You say, can't scale it. I don't care. I can't scale it. You aren't having enough conversations with prospects right now. I can guarantee that. And you're all sitting there wondering like, where all these people are. They're not signing up to your email, they're not subscribing to your blog, they're not doing any of that anymore. And they're just sitting there waiting to have a conversation with you. And so what we did was, or one of the ways that we're strategically attacking this is, close the gap. We're going to go to you. We're not going to wait for you to come to us. And that has been like, just the ability to help more people has just dramatically changed for our business. And so that would be my third tactic, I would say.

Yeah, sales is all about the harvest, and this is where most businesses let themselves down. Yeah, their marketing is great, but just because you market well doesn't mean people are going to come and knock on your door. But it does mean perhaps they're just waiting for an invitation. Yeah, I mean, what's interesting to me, Bob, is like, I don't have a website. I don't know what to say, I don't know if this will age well, but I don't have a website. And it's not a priority. Like, every time I go to work on that project, it's not a priority because the customer, that's not where the clients are coming from. The clients are seeing my videos on Instagram, they're following my account, and we're having conversations right there where they are at. I don't need them to sign up for an email, I don't need them to like book a call or whatever. I'm going to talk to every single one of them. And it's just, I know it sounds so simple, but that is like, that's you joining marketing and sales together right in this hub, this where it's hot, right? It's like, you've just seen a video, you've just followed my account, and now you're having a conversation with me. It's like possible for everybody. Anybody can do this.

Yes. So the way I figured this out is, so I don't get ChatGPT or Claude or anything like that to write anything for me. I basically, I will either take it from a video that I've already done, like a training that I've taught, or I'll actually record it. Like one of my favorite apps is VoicePal, right, which is essentially a ghostwriting app. So I'll speak into my phone everything I know about a topic, and the app will give me very pointed questions like a ghostwriter would, and I reply. So, what's a story? Where did you learn that from? What's a particular challenge that helped? How did you overcome that? Like, it follows up and you get, you know, you're just putting more and more into it. And you can copy that whole thing out and you can put it into Claude, and Claude will help you craft an article around it. And the great thing is, Claude's not, it's me, but Claude's helped me format it in a way, and that's why all my content tends to look and sound like me. But what I've recognized as well, Bob, I think this is important, is there's a lot of stuff, a lot of content that people, like professionals, produce that doesn't actually need to be like 100% awesome. It just needs to be 80% great. And that's things like the stuff we talked about, client communication emails. But I use it massively, like, this is where it really makes a difference for me, is like, I use it for insights and packaging my expertise. So there's not a week that goes by where I've had a conversation with a client that's something that I've never really unpacked with anyone before that I can go back and say, here's a seven-step framework for designing your sales presentation, here's a six-step framework for, you know, and it's all like, I am using ChatGPT specifically, Fathom with transcripts and GPT to gather insights and package expertise. And if you're in the business of expertise, which I guess a lot of people that are probably listening to this podcast are, even though they might not know it, you're in knowledge work, is that one of the most valuable things that you can create for your business is your IP, right? Which is all your frameworks. And so that to me was a game changer, Bob, was the ability to very quickly create like an 80% version of some type of framework or guide or whatever it might be. And that is just, it's stuff that would take me hours to do in the past is done in minutes, literally.

Oh, happy to be. I may make this the whole podcast next time.

Well, thank you to you as well, Bob. It's nice to hear you talk about your perception of me and my brand. I think that's nice to hear, so thank you for that.