CEOInterviews.AIHope, Healing, and Second Chances | Here We Go w/ Chris Cox

H

Host0:00

All right, Rhonda Sachuk, thank you for coming on to Here We Go.

R

Rhonda Sachuk0:05

Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks for having me on.

H

Host0:07

So, you're five years sober, right? You have a story of running drugs, getting in trouble, going to prison in Canada, and now your mission and your purpose is you help men that have really torn their lives up get back on track.

R

Rhonda Sachuk0:24

Correct. Yes. It takes one to know one. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

H

Host0:29

So, let's kind of start at the beginning. Where did you grow up?

R

Rhonda Sachuk0:33

My hometown is northern BC, kind of like that farming oil boom community. I had a pretty regular childhood. My dad was a blue-collar worker, worked in the oil fields in the pipeline. My mom was a farm girl, went to the Air Force. But I think like your regular teenager, I got into drugs and alcohol at a really young age.

H

Host1:03

So, tell me the first time you ever picked up. How old were you?

R

Rhonda Sachuk1:08

I bet you I was probably about 12.

H

Host1:13

Is there a story behind that or do you remember that?

R

Rhonda Sachuk1:15

You know what? I just think it's the norm for a lot of people to be honest with you. Like all the guys that I have in my facility where I work, generally the age is around 12 to 15 where people start really experimenting with all the drugs, binge drinking, right? But if you don't have anybody to help you navigate those challenges, then the ruptures happen, right?

H

Host1:41

So 12 years old, you started drinking. Go ahead. I interrupted you a minute ago to ask you about that first time.

R

Rhonda Sachuk1:50

That's fine. Yeah, no, I started drinking and obviously cannabis was around. Experimenting with mushrooms and LSD and then I probably started getting into cocaine about around 15. Because I always hung around with older people and that was the popular thing to do. You know, the people that had cocaine had money and cars and the best parties in Canada.

H

Host2:21

You're in high school. Is it 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th grade like it is here?

R

Rhonda Sachuk2:25

Yes.

H

Host2:26

Okay. So, you're in high school. 15. Like my son's 15. He's a freshman in high school. So, I think about that. That's about how old I was when I first started with a little bit harder stuff. What was that like? Were you in school? Like, were you a good kid on the outside? Were you able to hide it?

R

Rhonda Sachuk2:49

Yeah, I mean I was in sports. I had horses. Everything was good right up until about 12 or 13. And then I started getting into a lot of trouble at school. I actually got expelled. So I didn't graduate. And my mom and dad never really enforced that I get back into school. They basically said, 'Well, if you're not going to go to school, then you got to go to work.' So, I found construction and then I was just, you know, peas in a pod, right?

H

Host3:19

So, you got expelled. How old were you when you got expelled?

R

Rhonda Sachuk3:23

I don't think I finished grade nine. I definitely did not do grade 10 or 11 or 12.

H

Host3:27

Okay. So, what did you get expelled for?

R

Rhonda Sachuk3:30

Getting caught smoking weed.

H

Host3:32

Okay. Was it like fourth or fifth time or the first time?

R

Rhonda Sachuk3:35

I think, you know, yeah, it was the first time, but I mean, we were just bad kids. We were always skipping out. That was probably just the catalyst.

H

Host3:44

Okay. Got it. Yeah. Got it. So, you got expelled and then your parents told you had to go to work and then you went to work where?

R

Rhonda Sachuk3:54

Out in the oil field, out in construction. And then, you know, and it's no secret that pipeliners and construction when people are on the road and traveling to remote locations that we're a little rough around the edges. It's wild. It's wild, wild west out there. So, you know, you get into a group of people now where it's drinking and drugs are plentiful and like I always say, if the consequences aren't celebrated, then they're tolerated. So, it was just a lifestyle.

H

Host4:24

Yeah. So, you're a teenage girl in the oil field in the pipelines. I'm trying to like imagine what that's like and what that looked like.

R

Rhonda Sachuk4:31

Yeah. I mean, it was there's a lot of money to be made out there. Like a lot. So you kind of get into a lifestyle, you know, it's like they always say, it's a rockstar kind of lifestyle.

H

Host4:43

Yeah. And so you're going to work, traveling, and your parents are okay with that. This is what the 80s or the 90s?

R

Rhonda Sachuk4:50

The 80s. 90s. That would have been in the late mid to late 80s. But then when I moved to Vancouver, Vancouver, BC, then that's when the trouble really started. Because that's where I ended up getting into organized crime. It was just so easy to transition into that because I was already hanging around with kind of a rough crowd, you know, no rules, law outlaws, right? Rule breakers, right?

H

Host5:20

Okay. So, you're in the oil fields, you're working. Tell me how that happened. How you got into like organized crime and started doing what you were doing.

R

Rhonda Sachuk5:31

Yeah. Well, just moving to Vancouver, the transition was, you know, economically, it's hard to make money in the city, especially if you don't have an education. So, my roommate at the time had a family that was pretty high-level organized crime. And we started grow-ops, and this is during the time in the 90s when BC Bud was going straight across the border for straight exchange, pound-for-pound, for cocaine. So it was like a pretty big deal. The grow-op was very sophisticated. And then we got busted.

H

Host6:08

So, what's a grow-op? Tell for people that don't know what is a grow-op.

R

Rhonda Sachuk6:13

We're growing cannabis, but obviously illegally because, you know, now it's legal, but however, back then it was not. And during the 90s when it was going across the border, it was kind of connected to the cartel and whatnot. So it was pretty serious consequences.

H

Host6:30

So tell me like the first time you were introduced to that you got into that like how tell me that story.

R

Rhonda Sachuk6:38

Yeah. Well like my roommate at the time in Vancouver she had family that was involved and we were kind of down on our luck. We weren't making any money. I had just got laid off from my work. I was angry. I was mad at the system. I was on the verge of taking the steps of being an addict and the money just sounded a little bit too easy, you know, and yeah, so they set us up in a grow-op and it was a pretty large one, sophisticated system, and we were also stealing the hydro. We were bypassing the meter. So that's where the federal offense started. That's where that came in.

H

Host7:22

Okay. So what did you do? Like you're how old like they brought you in. What is that like what was your role in it at first?

R

Rhonda Sachuk7:30

Well we helped with the entire setup, right? So just getting the lights all set up, the trays, the tables, the plants, like it was a lot of work actually. You know we had to get up every day and make sure that everything was running correctly. There was climate control, the lights, watering, there was, you know, you got to put vitamins and fertilizer and stuff like that. Yeah. It was a lot of work actually, but so they don't know. I loved it. I loved it because I loved having that green thumb.

H

Host8:18

And then so it gets you get finished growing it and then how did that progress like what was your role in the whole thing moving forward?

R

Rhonda Sachuk8:28

Well, we were the growers. So it was like a third and a third and a third. There's obviously somebody that's got the money, the funding to back all of this up and then there was another guy that had all of the equipment that came in and hooked up all the hydro and all of that. And then there was two of us, me and my roommate, my friend, who stayed at the house 24/7 and actually did the growing part, you know, watering and clipping and trimming and all of the things.

H

Host8:58

Got it. So, we're basically taking care of it at a gigantic greenhouse. Yeah. Okay. And is it illegal in Canada at that time? I'm sure it was the night.

R

Rhonda Sachuk9:08

Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Very illegal at that time. Yeah.

H

Host9:14

Was this in the city or was it outside of the city or?

R

Rhonda Sachuk9:18

It was somewhat in the rural area. And it was really interesting because when it all started to kind of go downhill, I noticed all of the signs that was happening that I knew that we were under surveillance. I just my intuition was going off and everybody was like just stop being so paranoid. Stop being so paranoid. And I'm like no. Like something is not right. And sure enough, they waited though because we were in on surveillance. So they waited until we were cut. We had already done our cuttings and the guy with the money was coming to do the exchange and that's when SWAT hit the emergency response team. So they got me and my friend in the ferry lineup. We were leaving the area and so they busted the house but then they also took us down the ones that were leaving the house in the ferry lineup.

H

Host10:16

Ferry lineup meaning get on the to get on the boat like ferry. Yeah. Got it. Yes. Yeah. Got it. And so they got How old were you when that happened?

R

Rhonda Sachuk10:25

I think that would have been in my mid-20s. Yeah. Like early 20s. But during that time, like I said earlier, because it was such a huge operation and it was going across the border and it was directly related to organized crime groups, when I got charged, the judge pointed right at me in court and said, 'Young lady, I'm going to set an example out of you.' And I was looking at doing five years.

H

Host10:53

Okay. So, you're like in your early 20s, right? Is that the first major consequence you had from Yeah. Yeah. So when that judge said that to you, do you remember what was going through your head? Like what?

R

Rhonda Sachuk11:05

Oh, time stood still. Yeah. Time stood still. And my roommate, my partner in crime at that time, she worked at this really bougie golf and country club. So, she had access to a lawyer, a very high-profile uptown lawyer who took my case. And basically, if I plead guilty to all of the charges minus the theft of hydro, I would have that particular charge dropped and then I would serve provincial, which is what happened. And I ended up serving 18 months.

H

Host11:44

Okay. So, in your early 20s, what is it like going to prison in Canada? I mean, I know I've heard a lot of stories of people in California and Texas and different places in the United States. What's that like being a young

R

Rhonda Sachuk11:59

It's an experience that I'll never forget. You know, being over on the federal side was a lot different. You know, over there there was women that were doing a long time obviously. Some of them were murderers, armed robbery, violent home invasions, kidnapping. But it was more structured, believe it or not. There was more structure, there was more programs, there was a hierarchy. So everybody kind of just stayed in their lane, you know, and if you didn't, then there was obviously consequences. But I just minded my own business, did my own thing, and I didn't have any problems, thank God. But then when my charge got dropped and I had to serve provincial time, that's where the show was because it's more of a revolving door. You went somewhere first and then you had other charges you had to serve.

H

Host12:55

So you did how long in the first federal? Is it federal prison? Is that what it was you went to first?

R

Rhonda Sachuk13:02

Yeah. Well, while the whole thing was going to trial, I was over on the federal part and then when those charges got dropped, then I served the rest of my time out in provincial. But that was worse. It was like a revolving door, there was a lot of drugs, lots of fights. It was chaos. And then when it got really cold outside or if it had snowed, it would start filling up because, you know, sometimes people are using it like a holiday inn or something. They want to go to jail to get out of the cold.

H

Host13:36

Yeah. Yeah. And I heard that from other inmates, too, that they would have rather have served federal time because it's just more structured.

R

Rhonda Sachuk13:43

Mhm. And even the men that I work with now, they'll say the same thing. Yeah. Yeah, that federal has way more structure and programs and whatnot.

H

Host13:56

Is provincial that's a word for like that's like our state prisons in the United States. Is that correct?

R

Rhonda Sachuk14:03

Yeah. Yes. Okay. Yes. Got it. Got it. Yeah. There's provincial and federal and provincial is a little bit it'll be more like less or two years less a day is what they kind of say.

H

Host14:15

Yeah. So, your mindset, you're in prison. You're in your early 20s, right? Mhm. Were you using drugs in there?

R

Rhonda Sachuk14:22

I did. Yes, I did. I actually got drugs brought in there. It was so easy. I hate to say that, but it really was. Visitors just bringing them to you and so Yeah. And they cut tennis balls open. They paint them black and they cut a tennis ball open and they shove them full of drugs and they whip them over the fence at night. Got it. And then when you're out on the track doing your daily walk or whatever, you'll see people run off the track and you're like, 'What the hell? Where are they going?' And that's what's happening is they're getting drugs in.

H

Host14:59

So, do you remember your mindset while you were in there? Were you thinking maybe I need to get it together or you just going to go back to what you were doing? What were you thinking while you were in there?

R

Rhonda Sachuk15:08

Yeah, that's a really good question, Chris, because I look back on that and I actually get I used to get a little bit angry about it, but I just found that there was no support. I don't ever remember seeing a counselor. I don't ever remember anybody coming in to ask you like, 'What the hell do you think you're doing with your life?' You know, speech. And when I left there, it progressively got worse because then basically what happened after that is it just put me on the radar for higher levels of crime because now people know that I'm not a rat. I can serve time. I've got that stoic persona, I guess, whatever you want to call it. But yeah, so I just ended up meeting more people that were doing bigger things. So it was almost like going to crime school and having something on your resume where you got in trouble and you didn't tell and that's kind of advanced your career.

H

Host16:02

Okay. So you get out and Yes, it did. What are you on any kind of like here it's parole or are you on any like that when you get out or how does that work there?

R

Rhonda Sachuk16:14

Yes, I definitely was on probation and then I ended up meeting my ex now obviously, but my fiance I ended up meeting my fiance who was part of an organized crime group. We were engaged for four years and then I got to see the business end of things.

H

Host16:37

Okay. What does that look like? The business end of things as much as you just creating.

R

Rhonda Sachuk16:43

Yeah. Well, just creating networks, you know, because then I got into cocaine. Okay. It was a lot of cocaine. So then you start building networks and clientele and whatnot. And there's no shortage of people that will fill that list.

H

Host17:00

Yeah. And are you using cocaine at the time? Are you drinking? Like what was your like drug of choice during that time?

R

Rhonda Sachuk17:05

Yes. Yes, I was absolutely drinking, smoking cannabis and doing cocaine, but a very high functioning addict. I could definitely hold it together and whatnot, but it was a really high-paced lifestyle that was like I got I still to this day do have PTSD from all of that.

H

Host17:32

You're engaged, someone that's kind of high up. You've learned a lot of tricks of the trade. You're out of prison. Yes. Your mindset is just this is who I am and this is what I do. Or did you ever have the thought, man, maybe there's a different way or at that point or no?

R

Rhonda Sachuk17:48

No. I was completely blinded by the lifestyle, you know. There was just nothing that you couldn't do, nothing you couldn't buy, you know. And that sounds terrible. I know because I'm completely the opposite now. But the materialistic gain, you know, the cars, the bikes, the lifestyle, like, it's exciting. It's exhilarating. Anybody that's an adrenaline junkie, you know, it's Yeah. I just fit right in.

H

Host18:21

So, your addiction was just as much the lifestyle as it was the actual chemicals.

R

Rhonda Sachuk18:25

Absolutely. Okay. Yes.

H

Host18:28

All right. So, then what happened? Take me through that whole story and that part of your life where you're out of prison, went right back to it. Yeah. Tell me about that.

R

Rhonda Sachuk18:37

Yeah. So, my ex, he was a very violent individual. Not to me at first, but he was I guess you could say he was a bit of an enforcer. So there was a lot of aggression things and he started to spiral big time. He started getting addicted to his own supply and obviously as we know when you're in addiction things start falling apart at the seams. So I had to leave. It was getting way too volatile. Like way too volatile. And he did become violent one night where I'm like okay this is it. Like I got to get out of here. Unfortunately it's not that easy to leave. I did have people to answer to, you know, because on their end of things, a scorned girlfriend can really mess up, right? And it has happened in the past, you know, where a scorned girlfriend, all the undercovers got to do is pull her over in a traffic stop and, you know, the tears come and then, you know, the stories will start to come, too. And I wasn't that. They didn't have anything to worry about, but I had to prove that. Yeah. So those calls that were coming in, I had to answer them and it was scary. I was terrified.

H

Host20:00

You mean those calls that were coming in for people that wanted to meet with you and make sure you were Yes. And so did you keep working for them or how did that work?

R

Rhonda Sachuk20:08

No. No. All I did is I just said, 'Hey, you know, like it's not personal.' I had utmost respect for them and that if at any given time I would be allowed in their establishments. Yeah. You know, and I think that might have been the saving grace because he basically said, 'You know what, sweetheart? You have a good day. Click.' And that was the end of it. I never heard from them again. And then I moved provinces. I moved to Alberta and then I found a whole another lifestyle that I didn't see coming. But now I had the business skills and all of the things that I'd learned in that relationship and now I kind of went on my own path and created networks and wow my life was never the same after that.

H

Host21:04

So, who did you meet in Alberta and what happened and you changed directions?

R

Rhonda Sachuk21:09

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I got introduced to raves. Okay. So, from there And I got introduced to raves and of course like the drugs and the ecstasy and the parties and all of the people in it. It was so easy to navigate that lifestyle, that world. Didn't take long. Got it. Yeah, it didn't take long.

H

Host21:41

And then it was your deal now. It wasn't your fiance's and you're helping out. It was like you were the one.

R

Rhonda Sachuk21:48

Yes. Yes, that's correct. Okay. Yes. And I had a clientele list that was very unique that nobody else and I well I shouldn't say nobody else but a lot of people wouldn't be able to kind of navigate through because they were millionaires elite people that had professional positions jobs businesses right so I mean in the middle of the day I was able to go into establishments where there's like security at the doors you know, and the thing is the guy with the backwards hat, with the gold chains, with the gold teeth, you know, they're not going to get through those doors, right, as easily as I could. So, yeah, I had a lot of clientele that were really rich. Yeah. And even some Hollywood.

H

Host22:41

Got it. And then where did it go from there?

R

Rhonda Sachuk22:43

Well, that was a good probably five, six, seven years. Definitely lived quite a fast lifestyle and you know I hate to admit it but damn it was fun too you know we had a lot of fun during those years and but you know what it doesn't matter you cannot get high on your own supply it does not work.

H

Host23:03

And did that finally catch up to you?

R

Rhonda Sachuk23:06

Yes it sure did yeah so I just I hit rock bottom yeah I hit rock bottom I was a full-fledged addict I there was a period where I smoking crack cocaine. You know, and I was still functioning out in the world, but nobody knew that, you know, at the end of the day, I was locking myself behind closed doors and, you know, and just going on these, you know, two, three day benders and it was terrible. I mean, I'm surprised I'm even still alive. Yeah.

H

Host23:36

And then what tell me about that moment where you knew you hit rock bottom and you were just like, this is it.

R

Rhonda Sachuk23:43

Yeah. I just got tired. Like you just have to wake up one day and look at yourself in the mirror. But actually I think one of the there was several catalysts. I mean the addiction part was definitely one part of it. But there had been a couple home invasions and that's when I really started thinking like holy crap like this is getting serious man. Like I escaped a very potentially violent home invasion and then that started and anytime I got high after that I mean what do you think everybody's coming for you you're looking out the windows you're like it was like torture you know and I just looked at my life and went what am I doing like this is not fun anymore.

H

Host24:32

Yeah so people actually invaded your house armed to money and drugs.

R

Rhonda Sachuk24:42

Money and drugs and the enemy comes smiling sometimes, you know, and actually I kind of evaded three home invasions and you just never know like and that's the part is like your enemies do come smiling.

H

Host24:59

Yeah. Okay. So, was there like a moment in that time where you got in trouble again or did you just decide to get Oh, yes. Okay. So, tell me about that.

R

Rhonda Sachuk25:09

Yeah. Yeah. No, I definitely got arrested selling cocaine as well. Like I have a pretty lengthy arrest record. A very lengthy arrest record and then I did eventually get convicted three times, but I only did jail time once. Okay. But yeah, that was quite a feat getting that. Like I do have a pardon now finally, but it took years.

H

Host25:37

Mhm. How long did you go to jail for that last time?

R

Rhonda Sachuk25:42

18 months.

H

Host25:44

Okay. And was that in provincial as well?

R

Rhonda Sachuk25:47

Yes. Yes.

H

Host25:48

And how old were you when that happened?

R

Rhonda Sachuk25:50

It was all 20s and 30s.

H

Host25:54

Okay. Okay. So, you found the oil fields, right? And you quit doing illegal things as far as like dealing and selling drugs. So tell me about that journey.

R

Rhonda Sachuk26:08

Yeah. So the oil field was actually probably my saving grace honestly. Like even though I was still relapsing and in the addiction, I was still able to have some purpose and have a life that actually paid well. I was able to move up the ladder and I got myself into a position of health and safety, you know, like I started as a laborer, and then I kind of worked my way up and I really did well. Like I progressed there. I was on some really big projects, some very notable projects. And I love the oil field. I don't have anything bad to say about it. other than it does kind of support a lifestyle in addiction, right? Like I said earlier that if the consequences aren't celebrated, they're tolerated. And that's very much my experience, right? So you get those big paychecks and then it was like, all right, what are we going to do? Let's go to this city and have a cocaine infused party, you know, and party and go to concerts and, you know, it was a lot of fun, but again, just relapse, relapse, relapse.

H

Host27:21

Had you ever tried to get sober before then where you're like, I'm going to go to like a 12-step program, treatment, anything like that?

R

Rhonda Sachuk27:29

No, I didn't go to any programs. However, I saw counselors or therapists, but never really committed to anything. And to be honest, I was able to kind of beat it myself. Maybe if I had jumped into a program earlier, like when all of that trouble was happening, I might have had a better chance at sobriety a lot faster and sooner because I definitely support the programs now that I'm facilitating them. Yeah. And but I was able to white knuckle it. And then eventually I just got into like life coaching and then I realized with life coaching that I wanted to get further into more therapy stuff. So when I took my counseling program to be a counselor, that's when the real work started.

H

Host28:25

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you start cleaning up, right? And did you work in the oil fields during that time or did you start looking at becoming a counselor?

R

Rhonda Sachuk28:34

It's why I had to quit. Yeah. No, it's why I had to quit the oil field because even though I was maintaining a

H

Host28:48

Pretty successful lifestyle, it was every month or three months or whatever, there was a relapse. Okay. So, you were trying to quit and then like you couldn't because of the rhythm and the routine of that timeline and getting paid and getting time off and all that. Okay. Got it. Got it. All right. So, how did you start looking at becoming a counselor? Like how did what interested you in that? Like where did you go? Where did you start?

R

Rhonda Sachuk29:18

Well, I started life coaching first, but then what I realized with life coaching is because you don't really look at trauma in life coaching. It's more about setting a goal and the action steps in order to execute that goal. And what I found in a lot of the clients and myself was that there was always these blockages. There was always something standing in your way where you would procrastinate or you wouldn't finish what you started. And I'm like, it's a little bit more deeply rooted than just creating a goal and executing it. So then that's when I started looking into more counseling. And then I realized that it's not about what the addiction, it's why.

H

Host30:01

Mhm. So for you, what were those blockages? Like what did you find out early on in your sobriety besides being in the oil field? What else was there for you?

R

Rhonda Sachuk30:13

Yeah, good question. Deeply rooted trauma. Yeah, deeply rooted trauma that was overlooked and very much unresolved.

H

Host30:28

Do you think some of that was childhood or was it more when you started doing what you were doing?

R

Rhonda Sachuk30:34

It was definitely childhood and then during my adolescent years it was just compounding. You know what I mean? Because once those events happen, it just seems like that it ripples out and they continue to happen. And if there's no one there to help you repair those ruptures, then the next stage of your life, you're just taking that baggage with you and compounding the interest.

H

Host30:58

Yeah. Yeah. And it's crazy to think like as a kid you can go through things and you don't know how to deal with it and carries on into your teenage years and your early years and your wondering everybody looks at you and goes, "Why aren't they a good kid? Why are they this? Why are they that?" And yeah, it's so true.

R

Rhonda Sachuk31:20

Cuz like even when I was incarcerated, I remember talking to and I don't think it was a counselor. I think it was a correctional officer. They were kind of doing an intake and definitely not trauma-informed at all. They actually shamed me and said that, you know, you have good parents and you know, why are you like this? And I'm like, whoa, what the hell? Okay. You don't know anything about me.

H

Host31:49

Yeah. Right. But, but I mean, during that time though, I didn't even know what was wrong with me. So, yeah. You come from a good family. I come from a good family and I can remember being in my later teens and people just like what is wrong with you? You know, you come from a good family. What's going on? And honestly, I didn't know. I just knew that yeah, the way drugs and alcohol made me feel gave me a sense of relief of comfort that I just didn't have because my normal day-to-day feelings were rooted in a lot of trauma and things that occurred when I was younger that I may not even like ever thought about like in my frontal lobe, you know? So, yes.

R

Rhonda Sachuk32:36

Yeah. And I really like what you said, Chris, just right now about how like your day-to-day feelings were deeply rooted in trauma, you know, because one thing that I hear a lot is people say, well, you know, you knew better. You knew right from wrong. You had a decision. You had a choice. And even though that is somewhat true, people don't really understand, you know, when you have those deeply rooted behaviors and beliefs in the trauma that, you know, that shapes you and all of your developmental years, right? When your brain, like when your cognitive processing skills quite haven't gone online yet.

H

Host33:18

Sure. Absolutely. Yeah. So, so you started life coaching, right? And was that just an idea you had? Did somebody teach you how to do that? Like how did that how does that begin for someone?

R

Rhonda Sachuk33:38

Um, I actually took the Jack Canfield success principles course. And I don't know if you're are you familiar with Jack Canfield? No. He's the co-creator of Chicken Soup for the Soul. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Like he's a great I love that man. He's so amazing. And actually, I kind of did my research on what program that I wanted to take. And because he had actually designed programs for juvenile delinquents and the prison system, I'm like, that's my guy. I want to take his course. And I did that and I absolutely loved it. So, I am a certified Jack Canfield train the trainer. But then I jumped on board with a gentleman by the name of Kaylor Betts and he has a pretty strong following on social media and he's got a fairly decent program as well. So I actually started life coaching under his umbrella. But I just knew that I wasn't really in alignment with his mission because he primarily worked with women and I just I had this calling to call on the brotherhood because I had been around the brotherhood my whole life and I just I naturally gravitate towards the brotherhood. The brotherhood of oil field workers and just men in general is that yeah the brotherhood and organized crime, oil field, all of it.

H

Host35:04

Yeah. Okay. So you felt that calling and then you started getting into counseling. Tell me about that.

R

Rhonda Sachuk35:12

Yeah. Well the program that I took was very extensive. It was 50% academic and then also 50% experiential. So all the modalities of therapy that we learned we also had to try on. So we would be in a like my cohort was like say 22 students and then we would go into breakout rooms. So you know you would be the counselor, I'd be the client and then switch, right? And this was like for months and months and months. So, it was like having therapy on steroids. Oh my god. And you know, I always compare mine next to an exorcism because that's what it felt like.

H

Host35:55

Wow. And so that really helped you grow and probably helped you eventually with your sobriety. Okay. So, yeah, immensely. Okay. So, then what was your first counseling job?

R

Rhonda Sachuk36:10

Uh, well, I took on some private clients for a little while. Okay. But you know, the thing is though, I'm not quite registered yet so that I can take insurance benefits, but I will be. That is on my goal list. You just have to write an exam and then get registered. However, I think I want to further my education though. I do want to get into more criminal psychology. Yeah. Or even criminal justice. But my first counseling job, like legit now, is at the treatment center, treatment recovery center for men. It's a 60 bed facility and it's 80% of our clients are all coming out of the judicial system. Like they've been in prison for a minimum on an average of six years and then 70% of those are all violent offenders.

H

Host36:56

Oh wow. So I'm right at home. You're right at home. Those are your people. I'm right at home. I love it. I love it. So, let's talk a little bit. I want I want to know a little bit a little bit about your experience and you know you you felt called to the brotherhood which I I really resonate with and understand that because of all the worlds I've been in with coaching football and friends that are in different organizations or motorcycle clubs and I see that world and I know that world and you know just the brotherhood of the guys I'm around in AA you know, we're tight. So tell me what what kind of called you to that as a female. I mean, that's that's pretty neat. Number one. Number two, like was there an experience? Was there an event? Was there something that happened that just made you think, okay, this is the direction I want to go?

R

Rhonda Sachuk37:58

Yeah. Well, there's two parts to that actually cuz even when I was in the thick of it and I was in that lifestyle, there was a lot of men that always came to me for like to be seen and heard and to tell their story and get things off their chest. They would come to me for advice. It was really bizarre, but they just gravitated towards me in that sense. And there was actually like, no joke, there was times where I would stick my finger in my ear and start to hum and go, "No, no, no, no, no. Like, you can't tell me that. Like, please don't." Right? Like, that's between you and the creator, but if you need to get that off your chest, like please. Right. Because it just put me into some very dangerous situations. And then the second part of that which you might find a little bit bizarre is actually the plant medicine space. Okay. I've sat with Ayahuasca a handful of times and I've also done a psilocybin journey that is very you know like sacred and indigenous medicine carriers you know very safe and sacred space. And that has been my message every single time is to call on the brotherhood. And actually after a ceremony without even sharing my experience with the shaman, he came up to me the next day and said, "Rhonda, I want you to start calling on the brotherhood." I was like, "What?" Like, "How did you know that?" But he obviously had seen that in the journey. And then every single journey after that it was the same thing.

H

Host39:42

Right. Right. It was the same thing. So an Ayahuasca ceremony is a Native American ceremony. Correct. Am I right about that?

R

Rhonda Sachuk39:52

Uh well the the Shipibo Yeah. The Shipibo lineage from Peru. Okay. It's from Peru. Okay. Yes. Yeah.

H

Host40:00

And so you the first time you did an Ayahuasca had that experience and you and I talked about that a little bit on offline when we originally met. Tell me about that experience. I think you briefly just touched on it with a shaman telling you that, but tell me about that experience.

R

Rhonda Sachuk40:17

Yeah, it was probably one of the most incredibly challenging situations I've ever been in. It was so dark, so demonic. It was yeah, it was scary. I just felt like I was fighting for my life the entire time. However, what I found was that I still had like a residual, like a sticky, greasy fingerprint of that lifestyle on my energy body, if that makes sense for all the spiritual people out there. Yeah. So, I just knew that I needed to clear that. Got it. Right. And the shaman even came up to me the next day too and said, "We're going to clear that energy tonight." And I was like, "Oh my god, here we go. Here we go." And then just all the journeys after that, it all pointed into facilitating or going behind the brick and mortar and actually doing this work. And it actually gave me a number too of 15 years.

H

Host41:16

Oh wow. Okay. I know. Yeah.

R

Rhonda Sachuk41:21

Because I spent 15 years in organized crime and being a hooligan now, you know, so it only makes sense that I'm supposed to do 15 years of this work now.

H

Host41:31

Yeah. Okay. So, tell me about tell me about like your experience working with men that are broken. They're coming out of prison. Like I've got a lot of friends that have gone through that experience. And yes, at least here in the United States, it's a very hard road. The deck stacked against you. The likelihood of you going back is very great. There's not a lot of things on your side because people don't want to employ you. A lot of you're almost you almost have like the scarlet letter. That's so true. So is that the same in Canada?

R

Rhonda Sachuk42:05

100%. Yeah. You know, and because I do the initial in like it's called a RCAP. It's a personal plan like a reintegration plan, you know. So, I collect a bunch of data, you know, like the first time that they've used, if they've got any grief, grief and loss, how old they were, any trauma, you know, and the common thread with all of this is abuse, particularly sexual abuse. I can't count on two hands how many men that have been in my office that have been sexually abused. And the thing is what happens then is it sends a shock wave through that young person's life. They lose all sense of stability and safety because a lot of it was from the very people that were supposed to keep them safe. You know, and that common thread now is that these young men go into adolescence and they find crime and violence as a way to regain that power that they've lost and also to like regain their masculinity as well because that's a very confusing experience for a young man to be sexually abused. Yeah. So they're angry, you know, and the thing is a lot of them don't have family to go back to. They don't have sober living to go back to. They don't have a driver's license. They've generally don't have bank accounts because they have completely blew up their life. You know, they don't have resumes. They don't have housing. So, when they complete our program now, it's like a lot of them lose their shit right towards the end. They actually fall apart because of the uncertainty of what now they have to go back into. Yeah. You know, and that's what I want to advocate too is like we need more programs. We need more companies to step up and say, "Hey, we'll hire a crew of 20." Sure. It's okay if they got a criminal record, you know, and just give them job experience, work experience.

H

Host44:14

Yeah. So, how hard is that to find a job after in Canada?

R

Rhonda Sachuk44:20

Yeah. Well, I mean that's I mean I found the oil field and that's what was good about the oil field because there's no criminal record checks going into the oil field and for most construction. However, a lot of these guys you know think about maybe going out there to find work, but then I always tell them like you got to be careful man because now you've got a huge pocket full of money. You know there's drugs everywhere. So are you going to be able to maintain sobriety? Yeah. So it is an uphill battle you know really it's a tough it's a tough road.

H

Host45:00

Yeah. Are you seeing many success stories like what's the compared to failures or Yeah I have definitely witnessed a success story like a lot of success stories. However, they really have to be committed, right? They really have to continue therapy on the outside. Mhm. And therapy is not cheap, right? So, like cuz even if you look at housing, like if they find low-income housing through BC housing, chances are now they're going to be surrounded by other addicts, right, that are also in low-income housing. So, it's tough even if you're trying to do the right thing and coming up. In order to do the right thing and come up, you have to be around things that you're trying to get away from. Yeah, it's it's really difficult. We do have some programs that we work with that help them build like a resume and there is one or two companies out there that will hire only our clients. Not only our clients but they will definitely hire our clients. So there's a little bit of flexibility there right because the thing is we always have to remember it's not about what the addiction it's why. So there's a lot of deeply rooted behavioral problems and a lot of it is anger management. Mhm. So if they have a boss that you know raises his voice now we got a guy that's gonna flip a switch right? They have a different code than the code that Yeah. It's tough. It's tough to reintegrate.

So, what kind of So, do you do groups there? Do you do one-on-ones there? Do you do you have uh most of it is um Yeah.

R

Rhonda Sachuk46:49

Well, there is a curriculum like we have everything from newcomers to leadership skills, anger management, healthy relationships, even a parenting course. I don't facilitate any of those. However, I do facilitate grief and loss. Okay. Because with grief and loss, it's a very heavy heavy topic. And there's a lot of things that we go over like suicide, overdose, murder, homicide, you know. So they kind of want like a more of a counselor or a therapist to facilitate that because there's a lot of group processing. But we have a facilitator that does have those courses. She teaches those courses. And then we have like indigenous sweats. There's a cultural healing circle. There's guys that can sign up to church and go out of the facility after 3 months of good behavior. They can go out into the community. And then there's NA and AA the 12 steps and personal 12 steps. So there's a lot going on there.

H

Host47:57

How long is the program?

R

Rhonda Sachuk47:59

And that's where the six months. Yeah. And that was exactly what I was going to say next is that we just did a three-year study. And clients that stay 3 months or less have a very low percentage rate of success. Those who stay 6 months or longer and go into our second stage and then they've got like up to a year or two years there, I do believe. Then the success rate goes up to 89 to 93%.

H

Host48:27

Yeah, there's studies here. The longer people are in treatment, the better chances they have of success. The unfortunate things with the way that treatment is down here is the funding is tough. If it stays funded and then if it's private insurance funded they sometimes shorten the amount of time that really gives them the exactly it's it's like that here too like yeah the treatment recovery center that I work with is a nonprofit you know so again we have to justify our funds you know and at any time we could lose that you know and I just I cannot wrap my head around that Like I think that these should be mandated programs that there's always a fund there, you know, and then like you said, the private ones are really expensive.

Yeah. You think about like that a political sense at least here. If there was more money invested in recovery and reintegration and helping people, we'd probably save a lot of money on law enforcement and crime and things of that nature. I mean, it's never going away, but it's like, you know, these guys I see down at AA that are getting out of prison sometimes, they just Yeah, it's tough, man. and they've got a parole officer that's that's not their friend and, you know, tearing apart their room maybe every couple weeks and, you know, looking to put them back in jail. You know, you got a society that, you know, doesn't want much to do with you as far as employment goes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

R

Rhonda Sachuk50:12

You know, it's it's so true because I just recently did an interview with a former correctional officer. I've done two now with a correctional officer and she said the same thing. She's like, "It's such a joke because you've got a guy that's in jail for say drinking related offenses, you know, and now he's out and he's on probation and now you expect him to stay away from alcohol is like telling a diabetic not to eat the doughnut." You know what I mean? Like it's everywhere and there's no support for him when he's on the out, you know, except for group, but it needs to be more than that.

H

Host50:47

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, you started a podcast. How long ago did you start your podcast?

R

Rhonda Sachuk50:54

Uh, it's only been a couple of years, I think. I think I'm only up to maybe interview 24 or 25.

H

Host50:58

Oh, wow. What's the name of it?

R

Rhonda Sachuk51:05

Yeah, it's been fun. What's the name of it? Trouble to transformation. Trouble to transformation. Trouble to Yes. Yeah.

H

Host51:12

Yeah. I've been doing this one a couple years now. I did it through another platform or company I worked with before this one and then I started this one up about eight months ago and just started just release recently releasing all my episodes and I really have fun with it but the first one I did I was so nervous and it was like you know nerve-wracking I have a lot of fun with it. So tell me about your first your first interview. Who was it with? What was the idea? How'd it go?

R

Rhonda Sachuk51:44

Oh man. The first like I knew right away who I wanted my interviewees to be, you know, the Brotherhood obviously. And the first one was a friend of mine who's a young guy up on a bunch of charges, you know, addiction and whatnot. And then I started interviewing former law enforcement. And actually one of them, Sebisa, we kind of laughed a bit because he would have been part of the Vancouver ERT during that time. And I just reached out to him and said, "Hey, like you know, what's ERT?" That's a SWAT team. SWAT that that came and got you the with your farm. Okay. Yeah. Well, a couple of times I've had three SWAT experiences. Oh, okay. And yeah, so anyways, we kind of laughed and I said, "Hey, you know, like did you ever take down organized crime and drug dealers down in the lower mainland?" And he was like, "Yep, for 16 years." Oh wow. And I was like, "Oh my god, you've been through my doors." And not Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, anyways, we had a good laugh about it and I ended up interviewing him and then a couple more ex-law enforcement or former law enforcement and then some ex-convicts. Okay. And I loved it so much. I'm like, "Yeah, I really enjoy this, but it's a lot of work. I need a co-host." Yeah. Yeah. Cole's great. So, absolutely.

H

Host53:14

So, okay. So, people can find your podcast where?

R

Rhonda Sachuk53:20

Uh, well, my Instagram handle is rhonda.live. Okay. And the podcast is the same thing, Rhonda Lindlive. Trouble to transformation. And yeah, it's been great. Yeah. If anybody's ever actually I'm going to have you on, Chris. I would love to have like hear your story.

H

Host53:39

Love to do it anytime. So, yeah. So, a couple more things I want to talk about like purpose and now that you found your purpose and how that feels and you know what life looks like for you today.

R

Rhonda Sachuk53:55

Well, it's interesting because when people ask like how do you know that that's your purpose when you're in a true alignment with your purpose? It's just so easy to get out of bed in the morning and go do your thing, you know, like and I'll be honest, I'll just be completely transparent, you know, working for a nonprofit, not being in the oil field, like financially, it has been such a huge, huge transition for me. You know, I went from driving, you know, $120,000 vehicle to a jalopy, you know, and my bank account isn't bursting at the seams anymore. And the thing is is like you have to really want to do it. And somebody asked me that too. They said, "Rhonda, what would you do for free that you absolutely love to do, but you didn't get paid for?" And this is it.

H

Host54:44

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, cuz I mean the podcast is not monetized either. I mean, it's something I would maybe like to do. We'll see. I just not sure yet where my path is next. But that's awesome. Okay, last question. What is your message for I think I want to speak to your audience for that guy that's maybe getting out of trouble, prison, maybe just in the middle of it and just doesn't know where to do is confused, angry, frustrated, embarrassed, all the above. What's your message for that person?

R

Rhonda Sachuk55:27

My message would be that it's never too late and that it's going to be a hard journey, but if you're going to do the work and put just as much effort into being a better person than with the effort that you are getting into trouble, you know, the dysfunctional relationships, the addictions, and that hustle, right? If you put that equal amount of work into the other side, you know, you can make it happen. Like you just have to believe in yourself and let go of some of these deeply rooted behaviors and beliefs, those limiting beliefs. Absolutely. No. Love it. Yeah. And step into therapy, you know, and have a look at those ugly ugly parts of yourself that you think that by not looking at them that they're just going to go away because they don't. Yeah. Yeah. Then as men, we all have secrets and we got to tell them to Oh, yes. And therapy is the secret. I've heard a lot. So, yeah. Yeah. And not to be afraid of being judged, right? Because when you go see a therapist, that's why they're there. They want to help people. So regardless if a therapist has lived experience or not, just be willing to look at those parts of yourself, like peeling back the onion and getting to the real stinky parts, right? That's where the work is.

H

Host56:53

Love it. Well, thank you so much for coming on. Let's catch up next week. I appreciate you. Yeah. All right, Rhonda.

R

Rhonda Sachuk57:01

Thank you, Chris. I you know, one thing I have to say, though. Go ahead. Um with Yeah. This is like one of the first times I've actually told more detailed parts of my story. And yesterday when I texted you and I said I was feeling a bit nervous. I so appreciate that you picked up the phone and you called me like just like nothing. Yeah. I really appreciated that cuz I felt in that moment I was like I'm in good hands. This guy he cares. He actually cares.

H

Host57:33

Well, you did a great job and it was fascinating. So, thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah.

Hope, Healing, and Second Chances | Here We Go w/ Chris Cox

About Christopher Cox