Co-Founder, Palantir Technologies
Joe Lonsdale on SpaceX: A critical company in the middle of the biggest industrial revolution ever
Joe Lonsdale, 8VC founding partner and Palantir co-founder, joins 'Squawk Box' to discuss the upcoming SpaceX IPO, Nasdaq rule changes, state of the AI IPO race, FDA overhaul, and more.
About Joseph Lonsdale
Joe Lonsdale, the 8VC founding partner and Palantir co-founder, has been a frequent commentator on the ongoing AI and industrial revolution, which he has described as compressing decades of progress into a few years. He has expressed strong support for the upcoming SpaceX IPO, arguing that the company is a critical part of the AI wave and that making shares available to retail investors is a smart move. Lonsdale has also discussed his investments in SpaceX and Anthropic, and has stated that he believes the government should not take direct positions in AI companies, though he supports including such companies in broad market indices. He has been critical of proposed AI regulations, warning that a government review process could become politicized, and has advocated for a limited, targeted national approach to AI rules. Lonsdale has also been active in discussing government fraud and defense technology. He stated that Palantir is working with the Small Business Administration and other agencies to identify fraud, and he has called for replacing leadership in some federal departments. In the defense sector, he highlighted his firm's investment in Terra Industries, a Nigerian defense startup founded by two young Nigerian men, which he described as building a defense prime for Africa to help protect persecuted Christian communities. Lonsdale has also promoted the work of Saronic, a company building weaponized vessels in Austin, Texas, and has argued that the U.S. needs to take the best and brightest to improve its manufacturing and defense capabilities.
Transcript (16 segments)
✨ AI-enhanced transcript with speaker attribution
A
Andrew Ross Sorkin0:07
Welcome back to Squawk Box this morning. Joining us right now with more on the upcoming SpaceX IPO and the AI race, 8VC founding partner Joe Lonsdale. He is a Palantir co-founder. Good morning to you, Joe. We're all, I think, there's a lot of excitement about what's going to happen on Friday. There's also questions, though, about the structure of it, the valuation of it, the way it's being distributed in terms of more retail, the NASDAQ of it all. What is your expectation for what we're going to see come Friday and come the next coming weeks?
J
Joseph Lonsdale0:41
Well, listen, it's an exciting week, Andrew. And I think it's really smart that they're giving it to a bunch of retail as well. I think this is an industrial revolution that everyone in our country is a part of. And I think you've seen, obviously coming from Palantir and the retail support there and what Elon has done before, this is going to be a strong IPO.
A
Andrew Ross Sorkin1:00
Is your sense that we're going to see like a massive pop out of the gate? Oh gosh. Do you think that we're going to... I mean, it feels like everything. No, no. But the reason I'm asking is it feels like so many of the other IPOs that could come this fall or even later this summer are so dependent on whatever happens in the immediate aftermath of this.
J
Joseph Lonsdale1:25
You know, it's interesting. There probably is some effect where crypto, probably some of the liquidity probably is going into SpaceX and Anthropic and all these other things coming up. Right. So I guess there's in some sense, in the short term, there's probably some money shifting around and people are really excited. I think the key thing here, I mean, this is a critical company in the middle of the biggest industrial revolution we've ever had. Elon set really clear goals for himself where he gets extra upside if he achieves those goals financially. He's the kind of guy who doesn't miss his goals. So I think you look at those. I think you make your bets over a 3 to 5 year period. I'm not a short-term trader. I can't tell you what happens in the near term.
A
Andrew Ross Sorkin2:03
Well, we had Steve Eisman on the show earlier this week. He is not a buyer of this stock. He believes the valuation doesn't make sense. Looks at the TAM, thinks so much of it relates to AI and doesn't think that Elon is not... that Elon is not in the game, but for whatever reason, doesn't believe that Elon is going to win that AI game. Do you have a different view?
J
Joseph Lonsdale2:25
Yeah. I mean, listen, there are trillions of dollars in our economy being invested in the infrastructure for AI right now, right? Literally, literally like $5 trillion over the next five years. Like the tiny thing Elon spent, I think I'm not allowed to say exactly what he spent money on. I was just talking to him about it. But basically it's like, the payback is well under a year is what I'll tell you for the $26 billion he's getting paid on the part he spent that money on. I mean, he's the kind of guy who's the best at hardware in the world at a time when trillions of dollars are going into this area. And by the way, every single time that there's more dumb regulations, that there's more data centers that China is spending money to convince us, along with the far left, not to do that, just helps Elon, because he is going to do it in space, in massive scale, and he's shown how it's going to work. So, I mean, he's really set this up in a way where he's just right in the key part of the AI wave. It's crazy to think he's not going to win.
A
Andrew Ross Sorkin3:20
Okay. So if you're right, and maybe you'll agree or disagree with this, I've been betting that he will relatively, I think quickly. But maybe you think differently. Try to buy Tesla with SpaceX and SpaceX stock.
J
Joseph Lonsdale3:35
That's above my pay grade, Andrew. I think that SpaceX is set up to be key AI infrastructure. It's absolutely the best in the world at what he does, both on the hardware he built at X. I mean, it's amazing what people are paying for that. And here's the other intuition on that. That's crazy. Like they wanted longer contracts, right? So they're willing to pay way more than what it costs them per year, given his ability to build these things. And he's keeping it shorter because he thinks it's going to be worth more to him for what he's going to do. So, I mean, I think, listen, betting against this guy is not very smart to me.
A
Andrew Ross Sorkin4:08
It has not been very smart. What do you make of the NASDAQ changing its rules? There's been lots of questions about whether this is good for price discovery, bad for price discovery. Obviously it creates an opportunity for the NASDAQ, creates an opportunity to get into the index for people who want to buy SpaceX as part of an index, as opposed to buying it directly, but also creates all sorts of questions about creating sort of an automatic buyer, at least for a period of time.
J
Joseph Lonsdale4:35
Listen, I don't think the government should be buying into these things, which is a separate topic, but I do think the indices should be buying into these things. I think everyone who's long America should be long SpaceX, they should be long Anthropic as soon as they can be. They should be long these companies. I think it's going to be a really good thing to get a lot more of these things into the index. I still think we're very early in what this company is going to be worth. So the market, whether or not it's expensive now, it's going to look really cheap in 5 or 10 years. And I think that's what matters here.
A
Andrew Ross Sorkin5:07
OpenAI, if you could buy SpaceX, Anthropic, or OpenAI, which would you buy?
J
Joseph Lonsdale5:14
I have bought SpaceX and Anthropic actually, I'll tell you that. I think those are the two strongest right now by far. And you know, listen, we're rooting for OpenAI not to implode. So I think hopefully it stays strong too.
A
Andrew Ross Sorkin5:29
Well, do you have fear it's going to implode?
J
Joseph Lonsdale5:32
I shouldn't... I don't want to spread fears. I think that the other two are the strongest position by far. OpenAI was probably doing too much and lost some talent, but it's still a very impressive company and I think the coding stuff is quite strong and I think they're going to figure it out. But, you know, I think Anthropic clearly has the momentum behind it. And it's the strongest in terms of some of those things. And I think the infrastructure SpaceX represents is just betting on Elon is obviously the thing to do. So I think those are the strongest companies by far.
A
Andrew Ross Sorkin6:01
You mentioned the idea of the government taking stakes in these businesses. There has been a lot of chatter recently and potentially even that. Sam Altman has been talking about this idea in Washington. We've also heard it from people like Bernie Sanders and others. What do you make of that, and how do you think it would work or wouldn't work?
J
Joseph Lonsdale6:19
Yeah, I think Sam talking about that coming from a position of weakness, I definitely don't think the government should do this, Andrew. I think it comes from a good place for some people. I think some people want the American people to be part of the AI boom and to feel it. And listen, I think they are going to be part of it in so many different ways. I don't think the right way is to directly take a position in OpenAI. Helping build more power, which is what we need in this country, helping accelerate permitting, you know, if we want to build 1,000 nuclear power plants and do something really big there, if we want to, you know, basically get rid of all these barriers still, which I think the...