CRUISE 5 WITH DR LAZARUS CHAKWERA - MCP PRESIDENT AND LEADER OF OPPOSITION IN MALAWI

Thank you. What a joy. Thank you.

I was born in a little village, my lambo cassia area, yes, along with district.

That's where I grew up basically, and attended primary school at Malinois. There was a stint of two to three years that I was with my brother-in-law who was a teacher, and then I attended part of primary school at Nambu ma caning a primary school.

We were like, oh no, no, I don't want to go in there. But I can tell you this, I can tell you that we were a third generation believer. My grandfather, which I never saw, had died before I was born. Even though he had his own prophecies about me when he was dying, and then he's the one who really did their bad things including killing people and fighting and so forth. But when he came to Christ, he told his children that I have done all the evil that needs to be done. I don't want you to follow any info to follow after me. And so my dad, he was a preacher and he established many of the churches where we come from as an evangelist and a church planter. And so we were third generation and we were shielded from that kind of traditional setup. We would see, you know, but they were always passed by our village in the distance and stuff like that.

I was privileged to go to dinner a secondary school. It was a very popular segment. After I did my primary school standard 8, first time I was selected go to India. It was one of the best. Wow, yes, because these Catholic institutions, I tell you something, they got something going amazing. That's good. So amazing. It was one of the best, it still is. And it was a joy. At that time there were a few of these national English yes, and so when you got selected to was a big thing, it was a big thing.

Yes, I did. Yes, I did. And from there, you know, they give us choices where do you want to go. So my first choice was I want to go do A-levels, go to high school. Because at that time I was thinking I want to be a medical doctor. Oh, you wanted to be a medical doctor. Yeah, and all right. And then the second choice was I want to go to Jassa College. So after the results came out, I went to Blantyre again, first time to go south. I went to Blantyre, started my A-levels, and they began to teach us bedside manners and stuff like that. But there was restlessness in my spirit, like something is not adding up. And so what happened was, I think a month or two if not three later, the university selection list came out and my name had also been put on Chancellor College. Wow. So then I said that's what I wanted. I left all the sciences and went to Chancellor College, did arts. As soon as I graduated, three things happened: graduation, I got married, I went to Bible College immediately after graduation.

Well, I don't know. What about flower? Fantastic. Lucious panda far out. That the first choice from our guest today in Cruise Five, Doctor Lazarus Chakwera.

Yes, and because you are always wise by hindsight, when the things happen you don't know what's going on, but hour after hour stint in South Africa yes and we came back and we got questioned about several doctrinal issues. I and you know said no, no, no, that's not what we preach and teach and stuff like that, but it's all history now and most of them now embrace and teach what was not acceptable then.

Yeah, you're not being raised. Born and raised in a Christian home, knowing about Christ, and we memorize Scripture, we want competitions as little a little boy because of Scripture memorization and so forth. I didn't know Christ personally yet until I was in secondary school, form two. And then I said no, I would committed my life to Christ. That is when things began to change. Even though by my uncle in gjo we say father yes who was the younger father to my dad, he was presiding officer at a local court, and so a judge. So at one stage I says no, I want to be a lawyer, I want to be a judge. And then I change a little bit that says I want to be a medical doctor. And then I get saved. And the reason that I wanted to be a medical doctor was yes, I never was able to speak to a crowd of people. I've been self-conscious and I think I can deal with one individual at a time. I need to hide behind this more so, so examine people myself. Yes, that's it. But when I got saved, something began to work in me and we were able to face crowd. Well, it didn't happen just like that, but it was a gradual process. Yes, because I remember my first testimony. I went to my headmaster, was brother Adrian, and I says would you let me share my testimony? He says what are you thinking about? He says to use your noticeboard. So I wrote my testimony and pasted it on the school noticeboard. Wow, because I couldn't face. But anyway, in the process of time I began to, I still shake whenever there's crowds, but I've been able to speak to thousands, if in exactly youth stadiums, yes, yes, throughout my career and filled arenas even in the United States. Yes, but you think back to the village and you said this is not possible. Only God can do this.

Well, church has its own politics, but I was just as surprised. Yes, because I had push this aside all the time. Every time some of that far would be brought to my attention.

I had been to some extent, but you know, our family has always been not just politicians and preachers, they've always been involved in active politics. Because they were even in prison during the 1959 state of emergency. And so family members have been involved all the time.

And it was. And the mistake I made was I said okay, let me pray about it. You don't want to do that. That's what I'm saying. I mean, you don't want to do that because you may be surprised. And then so I fought with God. And one day I was struggling with him in prayer in my office. I was reading my scriptures, I was praying, I'm seriously praying like I had been because I said okay, I'll give this my attention. I got tired and I was walking out of the office to go to the restroom and I passed by my other workers, secretary, we were outside where I could pass by them to go to that. And when I put my hand to the door, I heard God speak to me. And I don't know how else to explain it.

And I stopped and I went right back to my office, didn't even enter that restroom. Went back to my office, I turned my Bible open and because I knew exactly where that was coming from, yes, and I went back to Exodus and I read through and through in the third chapter. But this is a woman who made up. That was the moment I made up my mind and my peace came over me, the Lord's peace I should say, and I said I need to talk to my wife.

They would say that, but you see what it is. People who are dirt and the dirt in people's hearts is what manifests itself most particularly in politics. It's time to wake up. That's why I like, if you want another musical kilometer to come ready to go, let's do that. The others, it's a time to get up. Let's that's we are. We already woke up. You said quite a 50-second girl and woke up. Yeah, but then what happened? We went back to sleep. So it's moving again. We slept on the job. First of all, we slept on the job with regard to human rights. And people woke up and says no, no more of this. And I say yeah, no more of that. But now we're sleeping on the job and there's so much stealing, so much wastage, and so much mismanagement of resources, and so much corruption. It's time to wake up again. That's the message. Zuka from Galloway.

Okay, so this is where the leader becomes extremely important because the leader is not just a leader, he is also a teacher of the nation. So it will come from the leader. Yes, sir. And this is a principle that you find even in these scriptures. It has to come from the leader. You have to lead by example. You have to demonstrate that. And because of the position you're given, you will see that when leaders say something, it will be coded, but the same thing said by someone on the street will mean nothing. Yes, because they are given that platform. And so when you are a leader, you have that platform. Use it to empower others, to educate others, use it to make sure that those potential things in people get realized.

If you can't change the people, change the people. That is something that I learned in leadership studies. What does that mean? If you continue to change the people, all right, because there are levels of change. Yes, we need a mind revolution, not just changing a leader because there is a new face, when actually everything else remains the same. Yes, if you notice, when we went out of the one-party system, every government or administration that has come in, despite the fact that we are in a multi-party dispensation, has behaved like there is just a one-party system. You can get out of Egypt but find it very difficult to get Egypt out of you. That was a problem with the tomb of Israel when they were taken out of Egypt. And it takes time, I know, but it takes a will to say let's break this jinx. I am positive that Malawians now know no amount of handouts, no amount of government resources wasted and used in campaigns will change their mind when they want things changed.

Not much. Not much.

Oh gosh, I think we should be talking to each other a lot more. But if you made like a family that's other than no with your flow, when we meet him formally, you know, in those formal things, but sometimes a little handshake there. Sometimes, you know, when was the last handshake meeting? Maybe too long now, can't even remember. Because it was our wedding or somebody. But I can tell you what, can I tell you? Please don't, just don't make it. No, no, don't tell nobody else. But when I called him one of the days and wished him well and so forth, we did. To meet, we need to meet. It never happened. How does it so? I can't force myself on them. And so what I do then is respond in Parliament whenever there are issues to be responded.

This is see, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But personally, I have no issues with him at all. I believe he's a very good man. I believe that because the few times we have interacted, you say hey, we should be having this more. This is you which is I'm gonna be we know. But I am, I guess the political aura that sometimes surrounds us makes it know. We need to interact more as people, as persons. That was it's, it's, it should be a cause of concern to me that the leader of the country is not talking quite regularly to the leader of the biggest opposition political party. But we are not developing this country together. I guess but listen to me, it is almost like somebody taking the initiative. And when the stronger one takes the initiative, it becomes a little easier. This is how I have sensed in my own life growing up, that when God reached out to me even while I was running away from him, it became easier because I knew then that he is not out to get me but he wants me to be his friend and child. And so sometimes it's a hard lesson even for us to reach out to those that need to be reached out to and then make them feel like okay, it's alright. You smile a smile out of a child.

What gives me confidence, yes, so I'm able to stand even when some people feel like I need to be down, it's my faith in Jesus.

Wow, you good good stuff girl. You're pulling in nothing. How do you have a party in total chaos? You know they wouldn't violate you have to want you pulling in the other direction. I tell you what, people that speak their mind on anything, I encourage them to do that. I would be the first to defend their right to criticize, their right to speak, even if I may not agree with their opinion. I'll be the first to defend their right to do that.

I am very okay with all of that. In fact, some of the things that's been going on in MCP are nothing but organizational challenges of a movement that is wanting to truly make a difference and serve Malawians by providing the servant leadership that's desperately needed.

No, it doesn't. I can assure you. I can assure you we could not have won five to one if that is a true premise that needs to actually be pushed as reality.

Well, which election doesn't take advantage of anything that's going on as part of the context within which that election takes place? There were other candidates, so we feel that candidates that people have faith in, they trusted not just because people wanted change for the sake of change, to spite DPP for example, they could have chosen the others because there are others that also run the race. So it could be all of the above, but I'm telling you, no party in this country has done what MCP has done and is doing. What's that? That is in holding elections across the whole nation at all levels. We are not quite finished yet because last season, last election, they didn't field candidates in other parts of the country. I'm telling you, and so you should now appreciate at least you are to the fact that we have an MP in the SAP. Why didn't we field candidates last time? We didn't have credible people that would stand on MCP. And that in itself was a big minus because even those that voted for MCP's president to be President of the nation, that vote had no one to protect, to look after, to guard or safeguard. And so we made lots of mistakes that we're learning from and we don't want to do that. That's why we say it in accordance with the MCP's Constitution as to the reason for MCP's being. This Constitution was ratified in 2003. It says our reason for being is threefold: we are there to help with the development of the nation, we are there to help with the consolidation of democracy in the nation, we are there to ensure that every Malawian has dignity. So it's the three Ds on the ground. And we have structures everywhere, not just names on paper. Strategists have been elections at a convention level way to elect a president, but everyone stays intact. Structure everywhere. From the southern region, northern region, we have structures. That is precisely why you are mentioned in the fact that we have a ward councillor in D&D and MP in Scientology. They have people where people were quite surprised when the Malawi Congress Party accepted Honourable Sadiq Nia into its fold. They were surprised. They were surprised on why were this. They were surprised that this is what you have been calling the all-new MCP, the rebranded MCP, and you accepting a man who has been in every almost every political party.

You know, you have to create a critical mass in any organization. You have to have a core, a core of people who have a shared vision and like mind. And when you do, even in a nation, even an organization, when you are able to get that important 20%, you can create a movement that reverberates. These are studies that social people will talk about. And what I'm creating is a movement, young and old, as well as interested women and interested men, that say we want to have buy-in into what you're standing for and we want to support it. And on that basis, we say come join the band. It's a movement of Malawians who said this country has been divided too long. And that's why I'm preaching one Malawi, one nation, one vision. Those that say nobody will come and develop this country for us, we must do it ourselves. That's why I say nothing for us without us. We must take charge of the future we want. And we want to do it with the integrity that is demanded. And I'm saying integrity is integral to unite. I've been everywhere. Come on over. 2019, much as we have a new identity, we want to go with that identity. MCP is a movement. And I have documents that we renew. This is how we walk. You must walk. You know, after what leadership is demanded for Malawi, we recommend approval. Nobody becomes a sovereign. And you trying to teach a very, very old dog some new tricks. It's something that doesn't always work. No, it doesn't always work. Probably I should say that. Maybe my secret is this: why they hope is in you younger folks. That's why I picked my whole hope that younger people, those not those that are being abused and used, but those that are saying this country belongs to us. I want to empower those younger people to steer this ship in the right direction. If I can show them it can be done.

MCP gets its funding from members of MCP. I have told you about nothing for us without us. How do they handle any cars and because many times we raise these funds because there's some activity. It has become extremely hard to raise funds for projects. When we have elections or projects when we have something going on, people fund these things, everyone contributing. We also have a fund that comes from Parliament because every party that has a certain percentage in Parliament gets funding. Yes, and that helps run the day-to-day affairs. It's not, it's a measly amount. I know some people think it is, but it's not. And my question is how are you able to do all these things? How are you able to run the campaigns that you manage to stage? So that's where I'm coming from. We have, we are privileged that we have, for example, MPs in Parliament and these have been contributing money either at an individual level or otherwise. We do that from their pocket. Oh yeah, they do all the time. They are some MPs who have even put stop orders in a bank. This money goes to my party exactly. That's how they love it. Nothing for us without us is not just a slogan, it is something that's happening on a daily basis. And these elections we just done, these people were put in groups and they were spread throughout and they were helping. And it is all, everyone says this is our party, let's put in something. If you can't come up with 20,000, you can come up with 200. If you can't come up with either, you can present yourself and say I want to go and be a mother. We have free people to say do something by all means. All hands on deck. Don't just watch, do something. And people are responding.

Because the thing is, do you know something? You can come to the office, you can come to the treasurer, they will give you information. Last time I had a list of people that helped us and I personally wrote letters to each one of them to thank them. Those documents are there. No, we are saying issues of transparency and accountability do not necessarily mean everyone is reading about what. But if you are interested, you can come to MCP. It is your office, it is anyone's office. They can do that. But we want to go a step further and say folks, let's be in line with what we are pushing. Yes, even as we want political parties to be more accountable, and we will, we are in the process of doing them.

Well, I tell you what, for me it is going back to the cross. Oh yes, to the old rugged cross, because it helps me understand who I am and where I've come from and what has made a difference in my life. And if I don't get the flesh, which is my personal ambitions, crucified at the cross of Christ, then I become like every other person. Yes, and so for me it's a song this because I love country music. Yes, you know, million years ago, when my live broadcasting radio NBC was doing country song, yes, I would stay up late every Friday. That was the fantastic programs. Ask you to listen to country music. And so I love southern gospel. They say that in the States, yes, but Alan Jackson is one and they all dragon over us is a song that I still love. It still is powerful to this day. Alan Jackson, the old rugged cross. That's a choice from our guest today in Cruise 5, Dr. Lazarus Chakwera.

I love family, like you say. Yes, yes. And every Sunday, fortunately now our children used to live in different parts of the world and the country, but now they happen to be ministering all of them in the longest. So every Sunday afternoon is family day. Wow. We come from church, we gather together, and the grandchildren, they're playing together, playing with cousins, growing up together. And I visit with my boys because now I got more boys. We had one son, but because the girls have got their husbands, so I and I also have another girl that has joined the girls. And it has been a fantastic tradition that God has allowed for us to maintain our family cohesion and appreciate God and what he is doing in each one of our families.

The Lord blessed us, Miss Monica and I, with four. One boy and three girls. And they're all around. And these are giving you grandchildren, I guess they are. Which is somebody says grandchildren, that's a reward you get for not having killed your children. When you think about it that way, we enjoy each other's company. We're able to watch things together, play games together.

I don't know. Have you ever participated in any? I've been involved in boxing. Frank's don't know. No, no. I have watched boxing. There's a few lessons you learned there. I was an athlete, a field athlete. We nearly got to go to Blantyre as a central region long jumper. Oh really? That was when I was in school. But soccer has always been so. We played with the teams and so forth. When I went to college, I joined the youth team. Jerome got academics. Yes, yes. And then they wanted us to do practices at St. Mary's Sunday morning. I said nah, I'm not gonna do that. That's it for me. That's just, I mean, I'm in church. And so I became a soccer fan. Couldn't play. No, I couldn't. I said nah, that's alright. Any game that you have played before like basketball, football, anything? So football was the thing. I learned to appreciate basketball because of Nicky, my son. When he wasn't singing at school and he would play basketball. And so in my travels then, I began to collect basketball tapes, the Michael Jordan stuff and everything for him. And then I grew to love basketball. And so I still enjoy it today. But soccer has always been. And then I love athletics too because I was also involved. So I like watching those when I whenever I have time.

That's a difficult question. But there's no idea. Too much love everything about it. Is us miss or not? I would do mess up a lot, but I love the beauty of this nation. Everywhere I travel, it takes your breath away. If you travel up north at this particular time, you would see the beauty of the foliage. It's wonderful. And then you go to the lake and then you go south and you see the massive melange. It is breathtaking. This country is blessed. And so whether you go up north to Niger Pluto or you are by the lake or you are by the south, everything you see out there, you say my goodness, this country is blessed. So there's lots of things I like about this nation.

Do you know, one day, vice president, I don't know what Chile must say. I forgot the function, but he said, mommy's please, and I'm paraphrasing, please take a responsibility. Don't bear your children for a president to take care of. We need to line up a set of questions which I would like you to answer by simply saying yes or no. The only one that you have to answer in full is by you telling me of your full name. Alright, so what is your full name? My name is Lazarus. I get myself a middle name when I was in college and it's McCarthy. And Chakwera is my family name. Do you have any tattoos? Don't think so. Do you have any piercings? No. Have you ever shot a gun? I tried to wonder. Have you ever cried over someone? Many times. Have you killed a chicken before? Yes, sir. Have you gotten into a fight before? Yes, sir. Have you gotten any surgeries before? Not that I think. Have you ever been hospitalized? Yes. Have you ever donated blood? No. Have you ever smoked weed? No. Have you ever drunk alcohol? I tried it one time. And you know what? I was seeing the ground come up. I thought it was already up and then he was it was you coming. He was still no. This thing is not for me.

But this was way back when I was promised try not got an Orion boy. Let's move on with the question. Have you ever broken someone's heart? I don't know, maybe I have but they would have to tell me. Have you had a crush on someone? I suppose so when we were growing up, you know, and you thought this is it but it wasn't. Have you ever received a bribe? Would you receive a bribe? No. Have you ever turned down a bribe? Sometimes when you suspected they could be, I've said no, I don't do stuff like that. Do you want to be president of Malawi? Yes, sir.

All right, yes. I Know Who I Am. Who is that? Salacious phenomena. I won't happen form. Life she is, she's great. Exactly. I Know Who I Am. That's the last song from our guest today in Cruise 5, Dr. Lazarus Chakwera. Well, it's been a pleasure talking. Wonderful. Thank you. Thank you.