TITAN Fireside Chat Series with Terri Lee Freeman featuring Ken Chenault

Well, Terry, it's a real pleasure to be with you.

Well, I think Terry, you really highlight to me the key requirement for a leader, and that is to create trust. Trust for the people that you work with, trust with your customers, trust with your investors. And so one of the things that's very important is I talk about the need to always demonstrate integrity. And for me integrity is the consistency of words and actions. And the reality is honesty is of course critical but that's the minimum requirement. People need to understand, are you the type of leader that is consistent? Do you in fact follow through on what you say? Do your actions are your actions aligned with your words? So first and foremost is integrity. Second that's very important is I think the best leaders, leaders who in fact are enduring leaders, understand what they need to do to capture the hearts and minds of people because the reality is you have to appeal to the rational side of people but you also have to appeal to the emotional side. You need to in fact demonstrate that you have a vision, that you in fact have values that are important, that you have courage. I think the best leaders have courage that they're willing to make the tough calls even at times when those calls mean that they are going to upset a range of people. But what they shouldn't do, and I really believe in this very strongly, that the best leaders understand that if you want to lead, you have to be willing to serve. So I am a strong proponent of what's called servant leadership because at the end of the day, it's not about me. It's about what are the objectives of the organization. How do we achieve those objectives? What am I doing to help people on their career journey? Because back to the hearts and minds, if people are convinced that not only do I have a plan, but part of my plan is to help them, they're going to develop an emotional attachment to me because I'm delivering not just on objectives for the organization, but I'm also delivering on objectives for them. And that's very important.

Well, those are two great questions, Terry, and obviously, I think very important. I mean, number one, I think it's very important as a CEO that you are an authentic leader. And part of my authenticity is that I'm black and I'm proud of that. I'm not going to say don't consider me to be a black CEO. I'm saying you can consider me to be a black CEO. I'm proud to be black. But I think what is very important is that a CEO, and I think the best CEOs are those that either come up with really creative ideas or they can spot and identify a good idea and then they can support people and give them the tools and the help that they need to achieve and execute on that idea because the reality is as in life and business good intentions are not enough. You have to execute, you have to drive outcomes and you have to be relentless about the achievement of those outcomes. I think secondly is the best CEOs understand how to build a strong culture and part of building a strong culture is what are the values that the culture should exemplify and the reality is sometimes adhering to those values are painful. And sometimes those values have to serve as guard rails. And one of the things that I found throughout my career in high-performing companies in the long term is what you see is a very strong culture. And so the reality is American Express is over 175 years old. There was a very strong value about service that we were in the service business and one of the things that we set was a mission for the company that we wanted to be the world's most respected service brand. And you might say, well, wait a minute. I thought you were in the credit card business. The reality is that I always tell people and this is important for the CEO is what's the soul of your company? What's the core? What I always say at American Express is the core of our company, the soul of the company was we were in the service business. We had to serve people well. And I think that's important. One of the things I ask CEOs and sometimes I get a strange look is I ask them what is the soul of your company because that goes to what's the mission? What's the core of your company? And I think what's critical for me is ideas and really transforming ideas, building a strong culture, building a performance-based comp culture that's focused on driving outcomes. That's absolutely critical. And creating an environment where people are proud to be associated with the company.

Oh, yes. I think Terry, one of the things that you can see and this is important is that there are some people in organizations that try to play the political game and there's some organizations that tolerate that and there's some people that mouth the values. At the end of the day, the key thing that you got to focus on, no matter what level you are in the organization, is are the values real? And I can remember a situation where I had an executive that really performed at an incredibly high level. But what I found out was the way he was treating people in his organization was with a high level of disrespect. So here's the tension. Someone who's a very high performer and in many organizations people would have said Sam or Sally they're high performers. I'm just going to tolerate it. What I said I can't tolerate that and basically it was clear to me that that executive was not going to change. I asked him to leave the company. That sent important shock waves through the company because people were saying, well, this person was a really high performer. But at the end of the day, the question is not just the achievement of the objective. It is how you achieved those objectives. And what this person was doing was having a negative impact on our culture. That's what I mean by values and action.

I'll give you one other example, Terry. This was an important one and particularly in a world where people are challenging diversity. I had a white executive who was very committed to diversity and he went to one of our offices and he looked around. He didn't see many black people in the office and he said to the head of the office, "How come you don't have any black people here?" And the person said, "Well, I just haven't found any." And this person went back and said, "Well, could you I'd like to meet with the black employees that you have." And he said, "All right, I'll get back to you." And there were only like two. By the end of the day, after this executive who reported to me examined the situation, he fired the branch manager. And the reason why he did that is it was clear that this person was not adhering to what was an objective in the company which was diversity. And so, you know, I think a lot of people talk about values and I always say look at how people act and their actions to determine if a company really has values.

So I think one is we as black people have now a range of pathways that we can pursue. My parents' generation, you know, you could be a lawyer, you could be a doctor, you could maybe own a business, you could be a minister, you could be a teacher. There weren't a range of opportunities because racism just prevented that. And so this question which I think is an excellent one of should you go to a big company, should you start your own business, how should you go about it? There are a few things that I think one needs to look for. First and foremost, and this is really simple, you've got to demonstrate an incredible work ethic. There isn't anyone that I know that has been successful over the long term that does not have an incredible work ethic. Number two, have some intellectual curiosity. It's really important. Ask questions. Because particularly when you're starting out your career, and I would say at any age, part of the way you learn is you ask questions. Third, when you're assigned a task, make sure you understand what is being asked of you and then execute on that task. And you know, one of the points, Terry, that I often make and people say that's relatively simple and I really do feel this. No one executes 100% on every task they've been assigned. Just doesn't happen. And the reality is part of what you're trying to do starting out is on the people that you work with and the person that you work for. You want to impress upon them that they can trust you that when they give you a task, you're going to work hard to get it done. If in fact you don't understand what needs to be done, you're going to ask. If you don't do the task perfectly and someone gives you feedback and says, "Here are the ways you can improve that task," you're going to act on it and you're going to incorporate that in your next assignment. And so the reality is when you are in any job, when you're building your network, one of the things I say is network off of your performance. Network relationships are critical, but those relationships are meaningless if it doesn't come from a base where people view you as a top performer. So key thing at the end of the day is execute. Show some initiative. Do the job that you've been assigned. And the reality is there will be situations where your work will not always be recognized. But part of your evolution and training is you want to be the most competent person you can be. Because if in fact you decide that that organization is not treating you fairly, you have already acquired some skills and capabilities even though they were not recognized. And you can go elsewhere and should.

Absolutely. The key thing for all of us is as we all know trust is hard for all of us. It's really hard and I don't care how big or small an organization is. And I would say this at American Express. If there were five or six people that you 100% trusted, think how better your life would be because we waste a lot of time worrying about people's agenda. And so we always want to put ourselves in a situation where people are not worrying about our agenda. All they know is well I can trust Terry.

Yeah. So, one of the things that I feel very strongly about and is my personal mission, whether it's in business or my personal life or philanthropy, my personal mission is I want to make a meaningful difference in people's lives. That's my mission and I think it's important. I think each of us should develop what is your personal mission. Second is one of the things that I believe in strongly is there was a famous economist named Milton Friedman and he made the statement that basically business should only be focused on shareholders. And I said publicly in several speeches and I say it often, I disagree with that assertion. I think corporations exist because society allows us to exist. Just as citizens have responsibilities, corporations have responsibilities. People talk about entitlement programs for poor people. Corporations have a form of entitlement programs. So I believe that companies should in fact exercise a responsibility to improve our society because if you're really thinking about long-term value, you want a healthy and productive society. And so what I've tried to do is where I can to integrate some of those thoughts whether it's business or philanthropy. And you know, one of the things that I focused on at American Express was we set up a leadership institute for nonprofits because one of the things that we found is that nonprofits had a strong need to train and develop leaders. And so we actually created a leadership academy. And we talked about and had classes on leadership but then also different disciplines accounting, marketing because at the end of the day having productive and successful nonprofit organizations is critical to having a better society. I think one of the organizations that I got very involved with after the murder of George Floyd that I started with Ken Frazier, Jenny Romedi, the former CEO of IBM. Kevin Sher, former CEO of Amgen. Ken Frazier was the former CEO of Merck and is also black. Someone that I've known since law school. He was two years behind me in law school. And Ken and I were as many people, we were shocked by what had happened. And we said, "What can we do? What as business people could we do?" And we said obviously there are criminal justice issues that need to be addressed and we can support and contribute to organizations focused on that. But what could we uniquely do? And one of the things we said is we could uniquely galvanize companies to focus on job training, reskilling, identifying jobs, particularly for people who did not go to college. And I'm a believer in everyone going to college that wants to go to college, but you shouldn't have to go to college to have a family sustaining wage to be able to take care of your family. And so that's something that we focused on. And we got over 60 large companies to in fact support 110. And we started from nothing. And so what I think is absolutely important is to understand how you can make and how business can make a unique contribution. But I think it starts with a mindset and the mindset to me has to be that corporations exist because society allows us to exist and we have a responsibility.

Look, I think what's critical again back to culture. Museums in many respects are the lifeblood of a culture. And it is important that we understand our history. I mean to your point, the facts matter, the truth matters. The life of Reginald Lewis matters and people should understand his story. One of the museums that I'm very involved in and was chairman for a long time and led the capital campaign to construct the museum was the African-American Museum at the Smithsonian. And the reality is that was a project that was over a hundred years in the making. And the reality is for everyone and I make this point and I would say the same thing for the Reginald Lewis Museum. Museums tell general stories and they tell specific stories. And the Reginald Lewis Museum is not just for black Americans. It's for all Americans. The African-American Museum is not just for black Americans. It's for all Americans. But the fact that Reginald Lewis was an African-American who achieved greatness. People need to understand that journey. Just as they need to understand the history, the stories, the facts of the African-American existence in America. And so, you're absolutely correct. These are challenging times. But one of the quotes I came across two years ago when I was just thinking and it's even in certain respects things have gotten even more challenging was a quote from Martin Luther King and I'll paraphrase a little bit but he says something to the effect of you know these are dark times these are challenging times. But he said we must walk ahead in the future with audacious faith in the future. And so I think those of us who are stewards of the culture, who are stewards of the truth, we've got to have audacious faith in the future because at the end of the day, and we'll just look at Reginald Lewis, the conventional wisdom, the environment and the times that he grew up in, one would have said there is no way that he's going to be able to achieve. But we know he had audacious faith. We also know that he was very intelligent. We know he's very confident, but he had that audacious faith. And I think that's very important for us. We need to have tangible signs that we're making progress. But I think the museum, museums anchor us into who we should be, who we are, and it gives us whether we are exactly the same as Reginald Lewis. It gives us also knowledge and empathy for someone else's life. And you know, at the end of the day, as I think about an income statement, museums are not a discretionary item. They're just not. They're core. And I think what's critical is to understand the role that museums play in ensuring that we're building a vibrant, learning, empathetic, truthful culture.

What I would say to particularly young people, but really anyone is you should make a conscious choice that you're going to be a leader. And to be a leader, what you have to be is you have to be self-critical. You have to be someone who will solicit input on how you can improve. You need to in fact have a very strong work ethic. You need to be someone who has both courage and compassion. You need to be both ambitious and humble. And part of what you need to decide is to me the happiest and successful people. Not everyone successful is happy. But you can be both happy and successful if you will serve people. That's what I would leave you with. Serve people.

I look forward to coming and Terry, you are an excellent interviewer.

Thank you.