Former CEO of L Brands, Independent
‘NO NO, SAID IT BY MISTAKE…’: Les Wexner Stammers, Makes Awkward Face During Epstein Hearing
Billionaire Les Wexner appeared visibly unsettled during questioning at a high-profile hearing tied to the late convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. As the pressure mounted, Wexner stumbled over his words, paused mid-answer, and made an awkward expression before turning to stare at his attorney — a moment that underscored the tension in the room. The exchange unfolded under intense scrutiny, with every hesitation and glance adding to the charged atmosphere surrounding the Epstein hearing.
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About Les Wexner
Les Wexner, the billionaire founder of Victoria's Secret parent company L Brands, testified before the United States House Committee on Oversight and Accountability in February 2026 regarding his past relationship with the late convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. During the deposition, Wexner described Epstein as "the world Olympic all-time con artist" and said that "Bernie Madoff is a boy scout compared to Jeffrey." He stated that Epstein stole or misappropriated "several hundred million dollars" from him and that he was "conned." Wexner acknowledged a single visit to Epstein's island but said he cut ties nearly two decades ago and denied any knowledge of Epstein's criminal activities, stating there was "not even a clue of a clue." When asked directly if he had sexual relations with Epstein, Wexner responded, "Absolutely not." The deposition included a moment when Wexner's attorney, Michael Levy, was caught on a hot mic telling him, "I will f**ing kill you if you answer another question with more than five words, OK?" Wexner, 88, also discussed his early career, saying he took his company public not to raise money but to give stock to employees. He has not been accused of any wrongdoing in connection with Epstein.
Transcript (103 segments)
✨ AI-enhanced transcript with speaker attribution
I
Interviewer0:00
And that article is from ABC News and it's titled Billionaire Businessman Leslie Wexner refuses to reveal full scope of Jeffrey Epstein's alleged multi-million dollar theft dated January 23rd, 2020.
And it's January 25th.
Ah, great. Thank you. Well, I have January 23rd.
Oh, I'm looking at the date in the upper right. You're right. On Epstein's role with the Wexner Foundation.
I for that will introduce minority exhibit at an industrial level like we do for a big company like Bear Stearns and then he had done personal work for the Rothschild family in France.
Personal wealth management essentially?
L
Les Wexner0:58
I, the term wasn't part of my vocabulary, but he was kind of like a family office manager. And so what he oversaw investment, oversaw...
I
Interviewer1:18
Good morning, Mr. Wexner. I will be doing most of the questioning for the minority today. We appreciate your time. As you know, our conversation today will focus on your relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. We'll touch on probably your financial and business relationship with him. We'll also discuss your personal relationship with him. You already discussed with our colleagues the way that you originally met Jeffrey Epstein. I would just like to ask a couple of questions on that topic. When you first met Epstein, how did he originally present himself to you? What services did he say he was offering?
L
Les Wexner1:59
Well, when I first met him it was just hello and I, he didn't represent anything and I didn't ask anything. I was just meeting a friend's acquaintance.
I
Interviewer2:10
As that business relationship became closer and you eventually hired him, I assume he pitched his services in some way. What was his way of framing what he was offering to you?
L
Les Wexner2:28
I think it was his experience at an industrial level like working for a big company like Bear Stearns and then he had done personal work for the Rothschild family in France.
I
Interviewer2:43
Personal wealth management essentially?
L
Les Wexner2:49
I don't know. Okay.
I
Interviewer2:50
We've seen some reports that he would present himself as a bounty hunter, that he would find people's missing money. Do you recall him saying anything like that?
L
Les Wexner3:00
No.
I
Interviewer3:05
One of the articles that my colleagues already introduced, I won't make you look back through it, but it was the Vanity Fair article. I'll just read you a paragraph out loud. It's the only paragraph I have a question about. But that article reported that during a conversation Jeffrey Epstein asked Mr. Meister to introduce Epstein to you, Mr. Wexner. And Epstein told Meister that Epstein had learned that Wexner's current money manager was stealing from him. And the article identifies Harold Levine, I think, as your previous financial advisor. Do you have any recollection of whether Mr. Epstein ever claimed that Mr. Levine was stealing from you?
Objection to the article on hearsay grounds. You can answer.
L
Les Wexner3:58
As I recall, Jeffrey never thought Harold was stealing and I didn't think Harold was stealing. Okay.
I
Interviewer4:05
Did anybody ever say that Harold was stealing?
L
Les Wexner4:08
No. Okay. No recollection of that.
I
Interviewer4:13
That article also describes a story where you sent Mr. Levine to meet with Mr. Epstein and just discuss an investment opportunity, but Mr. Levine came back to you and told you to stay away from Mr. Epstein. Do you have any recollection of that type of a warning from Mr. Levine?
L
Les Wexner4:29
No recollection.
I
Interviewer4:35
When you initially hired Mr. Epstein, do you recall what year you initially hired Mr. Epstein?
L
Les Wexner4:49
No.
I
Interviewer4:49
Would it be right to say that it may have been either 1989 or 1990?
L
Les Wexner5:00
Yeah, about then. Okay.
I
Interviewer5:03
Do you recall anybody warning you not to get involved with Jeffrey Epstein when you first hired him?
L
Les Wexner5:12
No.
I
Interviewer5:17
I'd like to talk about Epstein's roles and responsibilities while he worked for you. You touched on this in the last hour. The total amount of time that he worked for you, how long was that approximately?
L
Les Wexner5:30
It started maybe in 1989 or 1990.
I
Interviewer5:36
And I think you testified it ended in 2000 and what year did you say?
L
Les Wexner5:41
I didn't. Okay.
I
Interviewer5:43
Well, what year do you recall the relationship ending?
L
Les Wexner5:45
Would your statement help refresh your recollection? Whatever I said in the statement would be the correct date. And so whatever period that 89 or 90 it had been about then. And it ended when it ended.
I
Interviewer6:02
Was that upon his final plea in 2008?
L
Les Wexner6:09
Whatever I said in the statement is accurate. I remember it as being concurrent with the finality of his dealing from us.
I
Interviewer6:17
In terms of the different things or roles that he would play for you, is it right to say that he acted as an investment advisor or a money manager? What would be the right term for that role?
L
Les Wexner6:34
I, the term wasn't part of my vocabulary. But he was kind of like the family office manager. And so he oversaw investment, oversaw people getting paid, made sure taxes were done, and then talked to accountants. I had, in hindsight, a very... because I had done so well and I was dating Abigail and then we were engaged and I was married and running 20 businesses. I was very busy and just all that stuff that was in my personal life was either managed or wasn't managed by me. It was like my admin. It sounds kind of crazy. It was the closest thing I had to any kind of supervision.
I
Interviewer7:28
Would he be making investments on your behalf the way a traditional investment advisor would?
L
Les Wexner7:37
I must have known at the time. I don't recall specifically asking him about investment.
I
Interviewer7:44
I would like to introduce minority exhibit A. And this is an article from the Wall Street Journal titled Epstein flourished as he forged bond with retail billionaire.
And you don't have to read through this whole article. It's just helpful to have it in front of us, but on the bottom of page three, I will read just a single sentence to you.
It starts with the word soon. It's the very last sentence on the bottom of page three.
Starting there. Oh. And that sentence, I'll read it out loud as well, says that soon Mr. Epstein was presenting Mr. Wexner with a variety of investments including apartment buildings and a development involving a former post office building, says Mr. Morawski. And we understand that to be Robert Morawski, a former vice chairman of your company. Is that consistent with what you remember Epstein doing for you?
Objection, hearsay. You can answer.
L
Les Wexner9:18
No.
I
Interviewer9:21
Do you have any recollection of Epstein presenting you with investment opportunities such as these?
L
Les Wexner9:25
I'm sure he did, but they weren't apartment buildings or post office. Could have been. I don't remember.
I
Interviewer9:39
Is it that you don't recall at all or that as far as you recall, that statement is just not accurate?
L
Les Wexner9:47
Well, there's two parts of it. One not accurate and I fired Bob Moraski for bad behavior.
I
Interviewer9:56
But as to the substantive part, is it that you don't recall whether or not Epstein would present you with these types of investments?
L
Les Wexner10:03
I do not recall.
I
Interviewer10:04
Okay. And the quote is from somebody that I fired. Okay.
In addition to the family office role that you described, I'd like to ask about whether Epstein provided other services to you. We know that he provided some later clients with tax planning services. Did he ever do anything like that for you?
L
Les Wexner10:29
Must have, but I have no specific recollection. I mean, somebody, my attorney, tax attorneys, I've kind of a model about who did what.
I
Interviewer10:39
So, is it fair to say again that you just don't recall either way?
L
Les Wexner10:43
Yeah, I don't recall at all. Okay.
I
Interviewer10:46
Separately from that, Mr. Epstein was a trustee for various trusts and charities of yours. I'd like to touch on both of those roles starting with trusts. And so, I will introduce minority exhibit B.
And that article is from ABC News and it's titled Billionaire Businessman Leslie Wexner refuses to reveal full scope of Jeffrey Epstein's alleged multi-million dollar theft dated January 23rd, 2020.
Mine says January 25th.
Oh, great. Thank you. Well, I have January 23rd.
Oh, I'm looking at the date in the upper right. You're right. Under the byline is January 23rd. There you go. It's got two dates. I don't know which is correct.
On page three of this article, I'll let you take a moment. In the middle of that page, the article says that they identified nearly a dozen trusts connected to you.
Sure. It starts in the paragraph Vulture and Boyd in the middle of the page.
Okay. Who are those? I think they're associated with ABC's investigative reporting team. Thank you. And it tells us that they found nearly a dozen trusts with names like Health and Science Interests, Arts Interests, and Community Interests connected to Wexner that listed Epstein as trustee and received large gifts of stock in Wexner's company. So, I'll stop there. Do you have a recollection of the trusts that are described here?
L
Les Wexner12:45
None. None.
I
Interviewer12:46
And so, do you have any recollection of Mr. Epstein's role with those trusts?
L
Les Wexner12:52
None.
I
Interviewer12:55
We will come back to that, but I'd like to touch for a moment on Epstein's role with the Wexner Foundation. I for that will introduce minority exhibit C.
And this document is titled independent review of Jeffrey Epstein's involvement and interactions with the Wexner Foundation. And the document is dated February 24th, 2020. I'm not going to ask you to read through this. It's a long document. I will point you to a specific part of it. But first, we understand this to be an independent review that was undertaken by a law firm at the request of the Wexner Foundation in the wake of Mr. Epstein's arrest in 2019. Is that also your understanding?
L
Les Wexner14:03
I never knew of it. I've looked at this. I'm laughing because the address is 65 East State Street, and that was the address of my dad's first store when I was 13.
I
Interviewer14:14
Okay. Well, so is the report unfamiliar to you?
L
Les Wexner14:19
Yes. Okay. Completely.
I
Interviewer14:22
And I think page four of the report says that you were interviewed by the law firm for this report. Do you have any recollection of that?
L
Les Wexner14:30
Nope. None.
I
Interviewer14:32
Do you have any reason to doubt the report that you were in fact interviewed for the report?
L
Les Wexner14:39
No. Okay. I don't remember it, so I can't doubt it.
I
Interviewer14:46
Page nine of the report simply tells us that Epstein was elected as a trustee of the Wexner Foundation in 1992. And that he remained a trustee until September 2007.
L
Les Wexner15:06
Mhm.
I
Interviewer15:07
Epstein would not have been the only trustee of the Wexner Foundation, correct?
Objection as to hearsay as to the document. The question is fine.
Can you repeat it? Sure. Did the Wexner Foundation have more than one trustee?
L
Les Wexner15:26
I'm sure it did and I think there was a legal requirement to have three. But I don't know that. I just think that.
I
Interviewer15:37
On the next page, page 10, under the header number two, there's a header that reads, 'Epstein played no role in the operation of the foundation's fellowships or other programs.' And the first sentence afterwards says, 'Based upon our review of foundation records and interviews with foundation leaders, we concluded that although a trustee, Epstein played no role in the management or administration of the foundation's operations or programs.' Now, on that topic, I'd like to introduce one more single-page exhibit for you.
So, I'm just going to object to this statement as both a statement and hearsay, but go ahead.
I think as the majority general counsel noted, the objections have no legal grounding in this forum. I'm making it for the record. It is a deposition, so I'm making the objection, that's all.
So, is this a single page?
Single page.
And I'll give you a moment to look it over. This is D? That's D.
I'll describe it briefly.
Let me give him a chance to read it. Thank you.
L
Les Wexner17:26
I think I misread it. I've never seen this before, but go ahead.
I
Interviewer17:31
Great. It's an email chain from 2006 between starting with Peg Hugland, we understand was the financial controller for your family office. A person named Darren, who we understand to be Mr. Epstein's lawyer, Darren Indyke, and Jeffrey Epstein. And the chain appears to relate to a foundation grant. And the question is whether the funds should come from the Wexner Foundation or some other related entity. Epstein appears to make the decision that if the recipient is a US charity, then the funds should come from the Wexner Foundation. There are, I'll just represent to you, there are other emails with similar themes. This email chain seems to clearly show Mr. Epstein acting as a final decision-maker with respect to the disbursement of Wexner Foundation funds. And that obviously does not square with findings in the independent report. So, having been interviewed for the report, my question is whether you had any understanding of Mr. Epstein playing this kind of role for the foundation.
L
Les Wexner18:37
And I'm not sure I understand the question.
I
Interviewer18:41
No problem.
L
Les Wexner18:43
Are you asking me did Jeffrey decide that money should be given to Abba Eban or do I write a personal check or is it a foundation check?
I
Interviewer18:54
In this example, Mr. Epstein was deciding whether or not the funds for this entity should or should not come from the Wexner Foundation. Or from someplace else, not whether the donation should be made itself. I think that's the distinction he's trying to draw.
L
Les Wexner19:11
I had no recollection of where it came from. I regularly helped Abba Eban after he retired from government. And I probably would have started with writing a personal check and then I would speculate how it was paid. I don't remember writing a check. But Eban was a very good friend. And he had no money. He worked for the government of Israel and social security was, his income was nothing. He was living in public housing. And my sense was that wasn't fair. So I took care of him privately and his wife Suzy until they both died.
I
Interviewer20:00
Did you have any knowledge that Mr. Epstein was acting as a final decision maker for whether or not to spend foundation funds?
L
Les Wexner20:09
Not at all. He would never have done that. He does appear to have done it here. As a decision maker, no, absolutely not. I wouldn't have known it. Didn't know it. Wouldn't have thought it.
I
Interviewer20:24
So this role would have him playing this role would have occurred without your knowledge.
Objection. Speculation not in evidence.
L
Les Wexner20:34
It happened without my knowledge. But I did give money to my friend Abba Eban and his wife Suzy. Okay.