So, hi everyone. Thank you very much for joining me and Olugbenga Agboola from one of fintech's greatest success stories across Africa, from Flutterwave. If you don't know Flutterwave, we'll dig into that and what they do, what they've done, where they're going, their business model, why they've been so successful, trials and tribulations of building a startup, successes and failures, pivots and those stressful moments. We'll get into as much detail as possible. And we'll also try to get into a little bit of the views around the future, the future of payments, the future of Africa. I can't think of a better person to have on a call to ask questions like that. They see so much volume of transactions going through their systems. I'm sure that Olugbenga is going to have a view. So with that, a very warm welcome. Thank you, Olugbenga, for joining me.
My pleasure, Colin. Great to be here.
Now I was looking at the brief and the research for this back in 2016 and before, from the public sources that I could find about what you were aiming to do with Flutterwave, and a term that keeps coming up is a payments superhighway. So let's start right at the beginning. What was your original idea for Flutterwave?
So Flutterwave was inspired because of the barrier you see in payment in Africa today. As you know, every country has its own rails, its own rules, its own amazing ecosystems, but they are closed. Africa is not offline, but Africa in my opinion is disconnected from itself. There is M-Pesa in Kenya, mobile money in Ghana, NIP in Nigeria, which all work seamlessly, very well ahead of their times in each of these countries. However, it's not interoperable. The insight was very simple: Africa does not need one currency to trade like one market; we just need an infrastructure that connects everything together. We built on the belief that if you could unify payment acceptance, settlement, and connectivity, African businesses can suddenly start to perform like they are global. What makes global companies global is just because of one big reason: they have access to big markets. So if you can give the entire African market, the one billion people in Africa, that opportunity and give that access to African businesses because now they can get paid by every person on the continent, that makes the market share even way bigger. So we built a payment superhighway because somebody needed to collapse the decades of fragmentation into one API, and we felt it should be us. And here we are, almost 10 years on that journey.
Which country did you start in?
Nigeria. Our own country. My home country.
And why did you start in Nigeria? Because, you know, we've got to be honest, when I think about things that you could have built with your experience and your network, there were a lot simpler ideas that you could have gone with. Building a payments infrastructure is incredibly complicated. It takes a lot of capital and time. It requires a lot of partnerships. This is not an easy journey. And I think perhaps the biggest reason to flag that is that no one was doing what you were doing back in 2016, and I'm sure others had had that idea. So why back yourselves and why choose Nigeria to start with on something which seems like a very complicated, risky startup to go for?
You have a point, but let me explain. Small problems don't move a continent, and Africa does not require incremental fixes. Africa requires foundational infrastructure. Payment was the very biggest invisible tax on Africa's growth. A lot of companies that tried to scale African commerce before Flutterwave came on the scene in 2015, 2016, that wave of African e-commerce, a lot of them lost money. A lot of them weren't able to scale. A lot of them were doing things like pay cash on delivery. There was no other choice. They had to find a way to make it work. So we chose this problem because if you crack payments, you unlock trade, commerce, e-commerce, logistics, remittances, capital flows, expansion. Naturally, fixing payments creates a multiplier effect; it lifts entire ecosystems. So we didn't want to build a feature; we wanted to build a continental-scale backbone. That was the intention. And to be very frank, the hardest problems create the deepest moats if you get it right. Fragmented regulation, multiple currencies, over a thousand payment methods across the continent. It was not just a copy-and-paste solution from the West. This is Africa's problem; it needed an African answer in my opinion. And why Nigeria? Nigeria is the toughest market and also the best teacher. If you can build a payment company in Nigeria, you can build one anywhere else in the world. Nigeria gives you scale, complexity, innovation under pressure, diverse payment behavior, multiple rails, regulatory intensity and experience, unrelenting customer demand for reliability. Nigerians will demand the best of the best constantly, and that goes for the rest of Africa as well. So Nigeria forced us to build with resilience, speed, and enterprise-grade infrastructure from day one. Nigeria wasn't just our starting point; it was our training ground, and it prepared us for everywhere else: Ghana, South Africa, Egypt, Rwanda. Even when we left Africa for the UK and US, Nigeria got us ready for those markets. And I think it's a pressure point for continental commerce as well: 200 million people, the largest GDP in Africa, highest adoption rate. That's why we chose Nigeria. Plus, where else can I have an unfair advantage? It's Nigeria.
I think that's such a lovely, strategic reason for making a choice. It very much reminds me of Five Guys, the big burger restaurant chain. When they started in the US, they chose a backwater of New York, set it up in an offbeat path, put the prices up, had no seats, advertised other competitors, and still had queues around the block. They knew at that point that this was a model they could take global, and obviously they've done very well since. Is that a statement you recognize? Would you recommend for other startups and founders to go for the difficult markets and targets when you're young and naive and in startup mode because you're going to really learn your product?
Experience, they say, is the best teacher. You learn from experience a lot. So I would say go for the market where you can get the best and quickest mileage and where you can get an unfair advantage. That is so important. If you get your unfair advantage and your mileage, that can help you in solving the hardest and biggest problem. So if I should go back in time, I would say go for the market where you can get your best advantage, the most unfair advantage. You need that to scale as a startup. Also, where you can get the best mileage. In my case, if I go back in time and I'm still doing African payments, I would still choose Nigeria again.
How important, or let's rephrase that: what levels of support did you get starting this up? What I'm thinking about there specifically is I'd imagine that without the banks and without Mastercard and Visa and the other components to set up those rails, this would have been impossible to do. But on the other hand, I'd see a lot of those as potentially seeing you as a competitor or threat in some ways as well. So you're in this startup world of coopetition. What was it actually like in reality in terms of the support or otherwise that you faced in those early years?
Flutterwave got a lot of homegrown support from Nigeria and globally, to be very frank. The reason why a young company with no capital raised in 2016 would apply and get a license was because of the infrastructure that had been built. The regulatory environment is extremely professional and world-class. After we checked all the boxes for what was required, they licensed us. That was so key to our growth as a company. And to be very frank, everywhere else we go in the world, the first thing they ask is, 'Did your own country license you? If they did, then we can give you a chance.' That was the biggest thing we could do. We got support in Nigeria. A lot of angel investors invested in Flutterwave in the early stage. Myself and my co-founders used our network and infrastructure to get that support and started the company. Plus, a lot of our bank partners came to the table to support us. All these banks gave us rails and support to get started as a boarding merchant and scaling. That support has continued even till now. A lot of African banks supported Flutterwave, regulatory support, even government support. The infrastructure was there to allow us to scale from NIBSS to all the systems that had been built. We built on that layer, and that layer held us up. So yes, we got the support required locally and globally. Even investors from YC to Green Visor Capital, CR Ventures, those guys early on backed Flutterwave to get us started. That was very key and important to our growth.
That's really interesting. I'm based in South Africa and I've worked in banking for quite a number of years, previously overseas. My personal experience was that the banks really didn't know how to deal with startups. So I found it really interesting that you were able to get support from some of the local banks in Nigeria. And then I want to chat about Y Combinator, but that's a slightly different thing in terms of investment and support. I'm just kind of surprised that you got that support in those early days from the banks. Is this a Nigerian thing or a GB thing? Or am I being rather unfair on the banks across Africa? Do you actually think they've been quite supportive?
The combination of a lot of factors: it's both a Nigerian thing and a GB thing, a co-founder thing and my team thing. Also, the regulatory maturity at that time. Everything just came together at the right time to help us scale. But that said, a lot of these banks, I did work for them. So I had my former bosses all support me. For example, Aigboje Aig-Imoukhuede, the former CEO and co-founder of Access Bank, literally just swooped in and supported Flutterwave from day one. From Access Bank to Standard Bank to others, a lot of these banks came to the table and supported Flutterwave as we grew and scaled our business. Sterling Bank, I can go on and on. So I think it's a Nigerian thing, a my co-founder thing, a GB thing, a my team thing. Everything just came together. Plus, we applied for a license, followed the process, and got a license. We didn't know anybody anywhere. Everything was just the process followed. That was very key and important. So I think it was just right time, right place, right infrastructure. Everything just worked together.
I've not tried to set up a fintech in Nigeria. Most of my dealings are with fintechs in South Africa where I live. Tell me about that fintech ecosystem in Nigeria. What I know at a high level is that you're top of the leaderboard this last year or so according to reports from Africa: The Big Deal, where there's been more VC investment in Nigeria than any other country across Africa. You're telling me this story about this huge amount of support to build this monolithic success, this unicorn that we're chatting about now. You're not the only one; there are others that have been successful in Nigeria. I get the impression there's a really vibrant startup community bubbling away there. Is that a correct impression?
Yes, there is a very vibrant ecosystem right now in Nigeria, the fintech ecosystem, or not even fintech, the entire startup ecosystem itself. It's a very big support community. A couple of days ago, I saw Venture Platform, they led an event where they launched a new fund. Shout out to Dr. There's an example of a Nigerian VC literally building, raising capital, and investing in startups. They've invested in nearly everybody in the ecosystem. There are so many examples like that. There's AfriNurture led by Idris and his team. There's T Ventures led by Pardon. There's a bunch of African VCs who have been amazing. Future Africa, one of your favorite former colleagues. I also have 17 which I built with my family fund. There's constantly people building. There's also Aggressive Capital led by Maria. There are people just building amazing stuff to support the ecosystem. But it's not just Nigerian support; they are pan-African. They might be based in Nigeria, but they are just very global at this point. I think that shows you how they see the opportunity in the system. If you see the energy that people are putting into building amazing things, you actually want to back them. There have been some amazing success stories, from Paystack to Moniepoint to Flutterwave. There are so many amazing stories: PiggyVest, Bamboo, Rise Vest. I can go on and on. It's really a very interesting ecosystem being built and shaped up across the board.
I did mention YC on the back when you said it, and I wanted to treat it as a slightly different question. Sometimes, when I talk to many other founders of successful businesses, they've always said two things. It's extremely important to go and get investors from overseas. If you can get US investors, for example, they've got that mentality that you need to back a startup and a scaleup. They're used to a portfolio basis, they're happy to take risk, they can wait 10 years, they've got a process where they can churn over 10 years, so it doesn't have to be instant returns. They're willing to go through the J curve. There are so many different things in their attitude which certainly a lot of more traditional investors across Africa don't seem to have. But the other problem is that they don't necessarily want to invest in Africa. They're keen to invest in their buddies who've gone to the same universities and business schools and live in the same locations in Silicon Valley. But you've obviously had great success in getting access to US and international funding. What would you put that down to in terms of how you were able to access those markets?
Number one, I would say YC played a major factor in that for us. Being in that community and ecosystem of global founders who are building for different markets and different realities naturally helped us as a company in our quest to scale and raise capital. That said, I think times have changed. When we were starting, there were not enough African VCs investing in Africa beyond the very bold ones who gave us capital early on. But now there's a bigger pool available, at least for the pre-seed, seed, and maybe up to Series A stage. You're seeing a lot of VCs being ready to back African founders and invest in Africa. For me, it's really a function of Africa needing to back Africa first. We know the complexity of our market. We know the problem we're solving. If you tell someone you are building payment infrastructure in Africa, they look at you like, 'If you have a Visa card in the US, it just works.' But that's not the case in Africa. My South African card works for South Africa. My Nigerian card used to not work in South Africa. Now it does, thanks to things getting better. But the point is, those problems are local African problems, and once you leave Africa, they don't exist. So it's hard for a non-African VC to understand the scale of the problem and how much solving it can create value. So I think it's really a function of Africans backing Africa. I think that's very key at this point because we are the ones who understand the complexity and nuances of our market and environment. That is so important. So for me, it's really a question of Africa needs to back Africa. That is starting to happen a lot more at scale. A lot more angel investing is happening. Naturally, it's easier for those foreign VCs to back African companies when Africans have already backed them to a scale where it's now easier for them to understand that this is venture-ready and can actually scale.
How important, when you're working with these international communities, is it to be working through your network, like the Nigerian diaspora, Nigerians that have immigrated overseas and want to come back and invest in Nigeria? I ask that because I see that in a lot of countries, like China, in terms of exporting labor and then bringing them back home to build those networks and connections. It's a deliberate policy. I see it from my experiences in South Africa and traveling around the world, how South Africans that Sappa connection can lead to people just having an immediate bond and the ability to build trust, and from that to get into discussions about business. Has that been important for you?
I think yes, it is. I think you're right. Having Africans who understand the complexity of Africa, like I said earlier, is very key. It's definitely very important to have Africans in the diaspora who understand Africa, who are of both worlds. They are overseas, they understand exactly what is happening there, and they can bridge that gap between the average non-African investor who wants to invest in Africa. I think the diaspora is a very big network to leverage, maybe not even for investment but for education, for translation. That's also key because how do you expect someone to understand that M-Pesa is fantastic, actually better than Apple Pay, but only works in Kenya? It takes someone to explain it. That is so key. I think community is a very big support network for what we're building across the continent, and leveraging them is a major game changer.
All right, we've got a couple of questions coming in. I'm reading them. I'm just going to try to weave them in as we go through the conversation. So please don't feel despondent if I haven't asked it yet. We'll get to it. There's not enough that we're going to run out of time. So please keep throwing them in. Okay, let's sit here in 2025 now. You've had this incredible success. I know we've jumped forward a couple of years. There's no question about the success that you've got. 30 plus countries I think that you're in. Maybe more. I don't know. Do you know the exact number you're in now, or is it too many to count?
Not too many. Just 30 major countries.
Okay. What's next on your roadmap? What are the big things that still excite you and you want to really drive forward over the next five or 10 years?
Our roadmap is built around our customer demand. Our customers are broken into three segments: SMBs, consumers, and enterprises. Customers today want to get paid quicker and faster in Africa. They want to be able to accept payment from their customers anywhere in Africa, and we're enabling that right now. If you saw my half-year report that I shared, we processed $1 billion in just one quarter for one segment: global companies who have customers in Africa in Nigeria, Ghana, and South Africa via our virtual account solution. We've built the biggest named IBAN in Africa right now, where we help businesses get paid in Africa locally. These are non-card, account-based payments, which are the bread and butter of the African continent. In just one quarter, we helped merchants in one sector get paid a billion dollars. It's grown massively since then. We're best-in-class infrastructure for helping enterprise companies who are in Africa expand and get paid across the continent and globally, and also global companies who are not in Africa to get paid in Africa. We've built that and we're scaling it. Our goal is to go deeper, not even wider. For SMBs, we want to empower every SMB in Africa. SMBs are the bedrock of the African economy across Lagos, Johannesburg, Lusaka, Nairobi, Cairo. We want to help the average SMB expand the market size they can access. Why can't a business in Cairo sell to a customer in Lagos? The barrier used to be payment. Not anymore. With Flutterwave, we enable that payment to happen seamlessly. Currency conversion happens, fees are managed, and you get paid as a small business anywhere in Africa. We're making that happen right now. Last but not least, consumers: helping Africans in the diaspora send money back home and get it anywhere they are on all these platforms. We're building blockchain payments. We just partnered with Polygon recently to make that happen. What does that really mean? We want to help make it easy for an SMB to pay their suppliers quicker. Today, there's a shift happening in cross-border payments. Global suppliers are telling their business clients that if you want me to supply you quicker, payment with stablecoin settlement time is instantly. Payment with SWIFT is 5 days. Payment with wires is 2-3 days or one day depending on the wire type. So we're getting customers saying, 'I want to pay my supplier in China, my supplier in London, my supplier in Indiana in the US, and they're asking me if I've got stablecoin, I can pay them on Friday at 2 a.m. and they get the money Friday at 2 a.m. If I pay with SWIFT on Friday, that money gets there on Monday or Tuesday.' SWIFT in Africa still goes from your country to New York to destination. So we're building stablecoin infrastructure on the blockchain to enable payment types like USDC, USDT on our platform. That is so key for us because we see the opportunity there. We are an interoperable superhighway for payment, and our goal is to help ensure that any payment type that our business customers want to accept, we support that. With stablecoin gaining massive adoption, we have to enable that. So right now, we're working on our stablecoin payment infrastructure, which will be in pilot before the end of this year with a few select customers. The goal is to make it easy for enterprise clients to get settled in real time, make it simpler for SMBs to pay suppliers in real time, and make it easier for consumers sending money from anywhere in the world back to Africa to make that payment quicker and faster due to the openness of the stablecoin blockchain. That's where we are going right now: building that currency infrastructure that gives an African business, an African consumer, and any enterprise company getting paid or paying in Africa access to all major currencies on their platform with our partner banks, all visible from the Flutterwave dashboard. That's our current roadmap right now.
