James Simons interviewed by Bill Zimmerman

Level Russians site for systems, and I think there was no application at all to Vietnam. My view was it was a dumb place for us to be. We are going out of there. The head of the Institute for Defense Analysis was Maxwell Taylor, a man you may have known as General Max. And he published an article, a cover story in the New York Times Magazine, Sunday magazine, saying how wonderful it would be in Vietnam, with the state of course we will defeat the enemy. And I wrote a letter to the Times, which they published, signed by everyone who works with General Taylor, subscribing to his view, and I went on and gave my own. So that sort of set there. Nobody said anything for six months. And then I was a really wise guy in those days. A reporter, a dialogue reporter, a stringer for Newsday and Newsweek magazines, and he was doing a story on people who work for the Defense Department opposed to the war. He said, "Can I interview you? What are you doing about this?" I said, "Well, as a policy, you can spend 50% of your time on your own mathematics and 30% of the time tracking codes, whatever they do, their own money." I said, "My algorithm lately has been I'm spending all of my time in mathematics, and when the war is over, I'll spend an equal amount of time on their work." So I said that. He didn't say anything. He went back to the office. I thought, "Maybe I'd better tell my boss anything that I gave this interview." Jim Simons is physically brilliant, only intelligent. I said, "You know, I gave this interview. If you have better, tell me what he calls." Taylor said, "Fire him." I was fired. So I was there. What seemed like microseconds, the fighting is... But three days later, Lyndon Johnson announced he was not going to run for a second term. He was going to stop the bombing. And I figured the war was over, so I went back to my local bar, very nice dollars, and I would just forget about all this. There was no reason. So I was very worried about finding a job because Bruno, who was obviously competent as a research mathematician or something, would come up. But please don't interrupt. It was very clearly to be a chairman. I thought that would be a lot of fun. It was, in retrospect, a good thing. It was very good for him. Frank, I met my wife. I did all kinds of things about that war that you didn't like. Marches, any war, just that. No, it's not only war. I think I would have been in favor of... The usual example that everyone agrees is a just war. I didn't think that there was such a big threat from the communists over there. I thought we were moving a lot of people while we were taking our eyes off the ball. In America, it just seemed like a waste, very destructive. And you could feel the fabric of society tearing apart, kids marching, bodies coming home, and we weren't getting anywhere. It seemed stupid to me. In '68, they had to really... for the U.S. announced it came. Half-time cookbook went up with him. They came to me and said, "Let's organize an anti-war forum." And so we did. We talked about that last night. We raised a lot of money. I forgot how much, to contribute to the anti-war effort. And in fact, at that time, we had raised more money on this campus than any other campus in the United States. All this and your friends, the price was such a freelook on campuses, which allows the companies like a broken engagement. They didn't raise as much money. So we did hear from Frank. I think that I was there. Something of that Frank's agreeing to call him back made a huge difference because first of all, he had such respect at the university, and second of all, I think he was taking some risk because he was using Chinese... and maybe had relatively... I don't know. But at a later date, intelligence tool because the U.S. has always been... Some people in the U.S. government were always suspicious of me because some of my field is physics, deeply related to nuclear physics. My thesis advisor was a board of tele... Florida and I was close to... a flannel unusual. The CIA customized fires at this particular... and in 1971, this to China for the first time. The reason that I am for today, communist China, there was no television depicted China and the U.S. for a walk in first, to or something. First inquiry are being in Vietnam. In '71, I was able to visit because Searle with the team, Kim Hong diplomacy. I felt that the Chinese wanted to talk to each other because they were afraid of the Soviet Union. So I decided to visit. I thought I'd decided to defy it, not the White House. So I wrote that myself, anticipated everything. You know him, here and I don't know, gloomy here beside me. Two years ago, I don't think. And to my surprise, he said that we are delighted that you are going to visit China, but we cannot help you. I didn't need help. I wrote to my father, and my father wrote to the Chinese government and enlisted fine. He had to send to the Chinese embassy in Paris. There was no Chinese embassy in Western countries. So I got big plans and not by came back. You needed this. The CIA did this several times. I think U.S. taxes on a U.S. citizen, they think that's unlawful. But I was very careful. What happened is the following: the CIA sent General Vernon Walters, a new U.S. federal, to meet me in my house. He insisted on that. I didn't know what I said. I said, "Why don't we just go to my office?" He wanted to be in my house, so there wouldn't be any... I declined. Finally, he came to my office. We had a cell phone conversation. They came, and as soon as they sat down in my office, they opened their briefcase and pulled out documents. I became allergic because I wanted no... this is the way they trap people. They said, "Have you seen some secret documents?" I called my secretary to come in and witness that they had... and this major issue signed an affidavit that she was there when the conversation I had with the CIA man. I told the CIA man, "My parents are in China, and I still want to visit them. I do not want to be entangled with any secret stuff in the United States which may prevent me from going to China again." I thought that was a very clever move. The next day, I called ASAP. We had a conference. There was a man named Anna, forgot who was in charge of the Stumble Curl Grant. I called him. He said, "Great. You have to come out to see Kirby." He said, "You did a very intelligent thing by telling me about this, because in Washington there are many branches, and they are not informed of each other. In advance of denial, they don't see. I admire that you listed me. There may be some confusion, which there are proponents of... by my own opinion, they were in a stronger position." Well, you know, I understand that the CIA has done its job. China also has agents here. I just like that the U.S. is hesitant. The world is very complicated. One has to be careful, not incompetent, and could not keep from getting suckered into things like that. Very interesting. I remember I had a very famous Watergate story like that. One of the Watergate guys went to Judge to record in his chambers and said, "I've got this document I want to give you, Judge." He called in a court reporter to record everything that took place, passing about the document. Very good. Anyway, it was a great success. I think Frank was quite courageous to take on the publicly visible poached co-editors of the Council Club. I did get a good natural raise. The next question is how you feel, either of you, if you feel strongly about what's going on now, the so-called war on terror. Are you as disturbed as much as Vietnam did, Dr. Simons?

I think the Iraq war was a terrible mistake. You know, when I bring back the many dead people from... in that sense, it hasn't caused the fewer dislocations that Vietnam did. On the other hand, I think it's definitely along the worst piece of public policy. I never saw we were sucked into a conflict misled by the administration. If there really were a bunch of atomic bombs over there, okay, that would justify the war, and they knew there weren't. So I feel misled. And now we have to figure out a way to extricate ourselves and get the heck out of it. It's terrible. I don't think we can just say goodbye suddenly. We've created such a mess we have to clean up somehow. That's what I think. Frankly, we have a different view. I think it's clear that with the coming new president, we will extract ourselves from the mess. Whatever the origin or reason, whatever the strategy, it's clear that what has happened created tension in the United States and continues internationally. So something has to be done. Of course, how to do it is complicated, like the Vietnam War. How to solve this problem and do the right thing for the country is a responsibility often expressed.

I think that's going very well. In the first place, I moved back to China. Actually, I went back to China back and forth repeatedly. I was at Berkeley in 2003. My first wife died, so now I spend most of the year, ten or eleven months, in China and Hong Kong, and only a little in the U.S. Within the last five years, there has been much change, specifically in the relationship between the Chinese government and Washington. And all of that is good for international relations. The most obvious thing is the atmosphere in North Korea. The six-party talks were initiated by which side? It's clear it depends. It has not yet been successful, but it has already accomplished a lot. It's a process that includes the North Koreans, showing that this is a two-way street. Despite all the difficulties, it's making steady, although slow, progress. Without this, it could be very destructive, a disastrous war. So I'm sure President Bush is very appreciative of that. There are, of course, a lot of frictions. China is trying to lift itself out of poverty, which is instrumental in pointing at the heart of poverty. They have tremendous problems. I have not said publicly, but what they are trying to do is to compress in 14 years the progress made by the West in 400 years. Constantly doing it with such speed is bound to create problems. By the way, I should say here, I thought what was going on... I asked him to love the internet in 2001, and Marilyn came, and afterwards I supported him. I was very impressed with a short conversation I had with him. I asked him, "What is your impression of China?" He paused for a few seconds. I realized that this had been on his mind. He said, "I think the problem facing the world, the most important problem facing the world today, is poverty. In my visit, I found that 1.3 billion people are pulling themselves up out of poverty by their own bootstraps. That is a contribution not only to themselves but also to the world." I think it's very clear that reflects the thinking of the president. He is trying to do something good for mankind, not just for himself. So I was deeply impressed by that.

Well, the biggest single focus we have right now... We have a number of folks. I have a personal foundation, and it is primarily based on scientific research, supporting mathematics and science, basic research. We spend a large percent of our funds on that. One thing you didn't mention is autism. That is another area we have, and that's probably the biggest single project we have. We are quite focused on it. We put up a team under the leadership of Jerry Fischbach, who is a woman there, to run that. We're trying to make some progress with that condition, which really goes to the heart of many aspects of how the brain works. Understanding that condition is going to end up giving us a lot of understanding.