My dear Mohammed, always a great pleasure to be with you. We know each other for almost what, 30 years? And we are so pleased to have yourself a member of the board of the FIA Institute. So, thank you for being with us.
It's been a long, beautiful time.
Thank you. Mohammed, a peace agreement was signed yesterday. How has the, I would say, inshallah past conflict impacted your business or impacted what you do because you are involved in so many activities?
Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you so much for inviting me. It's a question that a lot of people actually call my wife and they ask her, 'How is he doing?' You know, just because we're in the food business regionally, we are in e-commerce regionally together with PIF, by the way, on both businesses. And then on the real estate side, and she tells them that he's so relaxed. And it's true. And you know, one thing we've learned, I think from 2000, probably I learned it from 1997 because I was in Asia and then we got hit with the Asia crisis, right? Then we got hit in 2000, 6, 7, 8 financial crisis. Then we had, I guess, two wars in the Middle East, two Iraq wars, Afghanistan war, Gaza, like there's a war every year, right? Then we got hit by COVID. So, it was just an ongoing way of life. So, if you don't build your organization in a resilient way after learning what happened since 1997, but actually it started happening in the 1920s, you know, World War I, World War II, disease, poverty, instability, weather. And this is just the new way of doing business. So, is your business resilient enough to get the shake? Because we are going to be shaken, and mark my word, every three to four years, you're going to get a hit. Weather, COVID, politics, wars, shortage of this, it will never stop. And now we'll come to the shake, big shake-up that's coming from AI.
Yeah, but to be honest with you, for you to wake up one morning where missiles are coming to Riyadh and coming to Dubai and Doha, it was shocking for us. But, is your organization built to sustain long-term? The answer is that you have to build your organization that way. So, it was different, but then again, we've done so much all these years, we made so much profit. Now, can't you have reserve at least for two years where you can just basically sit there for two years and handle a bit of pressure? And if you haven't done that, get out of the business. You know, go maybe take care of some sheep and goats. Because to run a big organization, big business, you have to be serious about the bolts and nuts of your organization. But then again, it was a global crisis. Why? Because I think the whole world is involved in this. You know, the people in India or the people in California, everybody got affected by this war. So, my gut feel was that this cannot stay too long. So, I'm glad I'm optimistic. I believe we have beautiful days ahead of us because this trouble will bring one thing together, that we in the region need to sort out our issues on our own. Nobody in New York can solve our problems. I really believe that. I believe that you can never change the borders. The borders are there. And I believe that we have wise leadership in our region that they do understand this and I am so optimistic that this happened and we are going to move forward well.
I will come back later on about leadership, but let's talk about business, Mohammed. You have built cities, not just companies. Don't be humble. So, when you walk through downtown Dubai today, do you see that as a business success? Or do you see proof that one bold vision can completely rewrite a country's destiny?
Well, when I walk in Belgrade, you haven't visited us in Belgrade, for example. It's a human achievement. It's more than anything else, to be honest with you, because I believe that for all of us to achieve anything, to put this incredible gathering of people together, you have to be brave. You have to be brave to do this, because this could fail. So, Richard, you and your team and His Excellency Yasir Al Rumayyan, they're brave people to even think that they can do this and do it on a global stage. It's the same thing in my business. The numbers have to make sense. For you, I don't have to be there. You manage your cash flow and all that. But then, what is happening to society? What is the economic impact of what we do? So, when I walk around Belgrade or I walk around Albania, Dubai, or even Saudi Arabia, I think it's just the excitement of the power of human beings and how much they can achieve and how much they can change. And it reminds me of those great European civilizations, what they've created. So, it's more like human achievement than anything else. But with my shareholders, the numbers have to make a lot of sense, otherwise I'm dead.
What is your perception today on Europe? Remember last year in Tirana, you were talking about regulation, regulation, regulation. This was a great social media, by the way. But today, what do you think? What is your perception about Europe? How do you see Europe's future? Do you think that we are facing a crisis of confidence? What is your vision?
Well, I'm in about, I think, 10 European countries. And I really love Europe because if you look at history, history is really in Europe. That's where history is. That's why 70% of all tourists in the world fly to Europe. So, there's a lot to say about this incredible Europe. Now, of course, I really think that everybody in the world believes that democracy has gone too far. I think social media has basically destroyed how government can operate, and I understand that. But I also think we are a bunch of people that have hope that no matter what you say about Europe, the European people love Europe. Spanish people love Spain. Italian people love Italy. And I think if there are issues, I am sure, look at UK. They've got a prime minister every month. Is it every month, or every 2 months? That's okay. The Brits ruled the world, and now some Indian gentleman has to be their prime minister. I don't know. It's just the new rule. But what I'm saying is that all these countries will find their way. That's why you have people who love Britain, people who love Germany, and you'll go through a bad spell, but you can't just say that Europe is dead. There are people who love their country, they will stand for it. I've got His Excellency here with me, the Minister of Investment from Syria, my dear brother Talal. We just came from Syria, by the way. He's a businessman, but he left his business in the Middle East, probably his brother is running it, and he transported himself and his family to Syria to support the movement. There are a lot of people like that in Italy, in Germany, in Brussels who are going to take care of Europe. Unfortunately, I have no solution because we are losing trust in democracy because no matter what you say, typically it's two political parties. I always say, why are these people so upset with us in the Middle East? They have two political parties, we only have one. So, that's okay, there's not much difference. The only difference is that even in your two political parties, 51% get the vote and nobody gives a damn about the 49%. So, one party rule, we also the same way. The only difference is that we have one party, but we have good infrastructure, good education, good security, good bureaucratic process driven by technology, tourism is the best. Saudi has the best airline in the world, Doha has the best airline, we have the best airline. So, I want Europe to be that way. What that system is, I'm not sure.
Precisely about that. If I give you control of a European country for 24 months, let's assume I'm giving you a European country. What would be the first three decisions you will make to attract investment and to unlock all these opportunities?
Well, I'll answer it in a different way. I used to manage an investment company in Singapore and then they brought me to Dubai to run exactly this for 8 years, the economic development department where we give business registration, we are tax collectors, we do city promotion, we do all the investment rules and regulations. And then, I had a lot of incredible Saudi businessmen who made appointments to come and see me to say that they were planning to open a branch of their business in Saudi Arabia, and I used to play tricks on them. So, I know Mr. XYZ coming to see me, and before they leave I give them an envelope. And then, I'll do the same in Europe. When I give them the envelope, it has a business registration approval to do business in Dubai. And he said, 'But Muhammad, I have not applied.' I said, 'It's okay, no problem. You can use it.' He said, 'But there is no address.' I said, 'Yeah, I put in my government office address.' He said, 'But I have not paid the fees.' I said, 'It's okay, if you open your business, pay the fees later.' So, His Highness heard that I'm doing a lot of this stuff. He says, 'Muhammad, you are not respecting the rules. What about if this gentleman, instead of doing this business, does that business?' I said, 'Yeah, but shame on us. We are the government of Dubai and if somebody misbehaves, we don't have any police force to go and pick him up and tell him to behave?' So, why are you scared of somebody doing business? What is he going to do? There is Ministry of Defense, intelligence, police, and you are scared of a businessman doing business? Are you kidding me? So, it is ease. Businessmen really know what to do. And if they do anything they're not supposed to do, you guys in Europe have police, no? You have intelligence, you have all that stuff. Go after these people. Unless you don't have the energy to do it. But I really think people care about their country, so simplify, simplify, simplify. That's all.
How many employees do you have in all your companies? How many total employees do you have?
How many? Staff, 200,000.
Okay. Are you concerned about what AI will impact on jobs?
