E282: Lisa Lutoff-Perlo: Dare to dream Big

My pleasure Leticia, it's wonderful being here with you today.

Thank you Leticia. And yes, Making Waves, my story really is at the heart of that: if I can do it, you can do it. I started my life where I was born in Gloucester, Massachusetts, the oldest seaport in the United States, a very small fishing town. Most of the kids I grew up with were Italian and Portuguese and all of their dads, brothers, uncles, grandfathers were fishermen. So it was a small fishing town. My parents always owned either restaurants or coffee shops in that town. I'm neither Italian nor Portuguese and no one in my family were fishermen, but I got a love for hospitality and people at a very young age because part of it is in my DNA and personality and the other part is because my parents were always in hospitality. So I always find it serendipitous that I ended up in an industry for almost 40 years in hospitality on the ocean because I grew up on the ocean and my parents had restaurants. My whole career has been in hospitality. And to answer the question of did I ever think I would end up where I ended up, the answer is a resounding no. Never in my wildest imagination or dreams. I didn't know for a very long time what I wanted to do, where I wanted my career to be. Even when I ended up in the company I was with for 40 years, I still never thought I would be president and CEO of one of the brands. I was in sales for 17 years in progressive leadership roles within sales and my sole ambition at that point in time was just to be the head of sales. So my story is also one of: you should probably dream bigger and you probably shouldn't limit yourself in how you think about where you could end up. You should probably think that you're capable of as much as other people think you're capable of. Those three things were big lessons for me in my career.

Well again, I think a lot of it is how we're wired as human beings. What is comfortable for you? I've always been ambitious, I've always been competitive, I've always wanted to be the best at anything I've ever done. So those inherent qualities are helpful certainly when you're thinking about what you want to do. I did start at the bottom and I think that's another thing that people don't understand. They think you need to start near the top to get to the top. They don't realize that you can start somewhere very low on the totem pole like I did and end up somewhere that again you never dreamed you'd end up being, by looking at different opportunities as they present themselves as stepping stones to something that could be big. I've talked to a lot of people, even in my previous company, and as people ask me for insight and advice about how they're thinking about their careers and how they might be able to do what I was able to do, one of the things I also learned is that you have to be willing to do different things to get different experiences and build your resume and your value so that when these opportunities come up you're tapped on the shoulder for them. I didn't realize that until I was in the company for almost 20 years where I was taken from sales and put into marketing. I didn't want to go, I wanted to stay in sales and be the head of sales. Little did I know that somebody forcing me out of my comfort zone to go see value in me that I didn't see in myself, that I could be an effective leader across the enterprise, was the first move I made reluctantly. That was the first of many moves that ultimately got me to where I ended up being. Once I made that first move, it was more comfortable for me to continue to make the moves, but that first one was hard and I was not happy about it. I didn't embrace it right away, but once I did I went for it. The same old me came back and I became ambitious again and competitive again and I wanted to be the best at it even though it was new for me. That was the beginning of a series of many other moves that ultimately got me to president and CEO.

Well, you know, as I was navigating my way through the company and taking on all these different roles in which I was not a subject matter expert, I consider myself a salesperson at heart, that's where I started my career. Honestly, I believe we're always selling, so I don't think you ever stop selling regardless of if you're standing in the boardroom selling your strategic plan or selling something to a child to convince them to do something. You're always selling and I feel it's a huge asset to have in any role that you take on. But when I was taking on these other roles where I really didn't know what I was doing and I wasn't a subject matter expert, I learned that I was chosen for positions because I exhibited attributes that the leadership and the company felt were very valuable, like my leadership capabilities, the way I thought about culture and teams, the way I solved problems, the way I got results. People felt those were transferable skills that I could take anywhere in the company. That's true and I did. But that said, you need to be willing to learn and you need to be willing to say 'I don't know everything' and 'I'm not a subject matter expert, so I need to surround myself with people that know more than I do in certain areas so that I can be successful and so that we can all be successful.' You also have to be willing to ask people for help and admit you don't know everything. Even the people that work for you. I've seen so many leaders come into roles and not be successful because they couldn't admit they didn't know everything they needed to, they weren't willing to ask for help, they weren't willing to show any vulnerability. Some people look at that as a weakness, and I look at all of those things as an absolute strength that helped me be successful as I went into so many roles in so many different areas of the company that I had never worked in before.

Yeah, I'm a huge, huge proponent of empathetic leadership. I feel like it's something that so many leaders lack. Empathy means caring as much about others as yourself, or more about others than yourself. Sometimes when you see people who rise to the top, it's all about them. I just feel that my approach to leadership was one that I needed. I was leading 20,000 people from 70 different countries spread out all over the world. These people left their homes, their families, their friends, their children. Mothers left children, fathers left children to go make a living for their family in a way that they couldn't in the countries they come from. I looked at that as such a tremendous sacrifice. I looked at how they cared for each other and how they cared for our guests. This was all new to me when I went into operations because sales and marketing was very different. I remember it really hitting me in 2005 when I went into operations just how special our crew was and how I didn't feel like they were nurtured enough or cared for enough. I wanted to change that culture because I believed that they deserved it and that I would get discretionary effort for that. When people know you genuinely care about them, they usually genuinely care about you back, and then they put in that incremental effort that's priceless. That helps you be so successful. Because I'm that type of person anyway, it worked really well for me. But then I look around at other leaders who have no empathy. And to your point that you just said a moment ago about being willing to ask for help and being willing to be vulnerable, and that it was ultimately going to hit them as a roadblock at some point, I believe that non-empathetic leaders, it's going to do the same thing to them. If people don't want to work for you, they have so many choices. They don't work for a job – everybody needs to make a living and they'll stay for a little while, but they won't stay. And if they stay, you're not going to get 100%, you're going to get what they want to give you on any given day. I just didn't think that was the best recipe for success. So now I've been out of the brand for almost two years and people cruise on Celebrity and tell me how much the crew still misses me. I consider that the ultimate compliment, that after almost two years of being gone, the crew remembers and misses me and tells our guests that. I always say that's the one thing we all should want to happen: that when we're not there anymore, that you're missed. That means you made an impact on people's lives that was very special. That's how I wanted to lead, that's the type of leader I wanted to be.

Absolutely, for sure. I happen to work with quite a few men that were like that. My biggest advocates have always been men because I was in a male-dominated industry, there were no other women that were going to push me along or pull me along or help me succeed. So as I was climbing the corporate ladder, I never felt like gender was an obstacle for me. I felt like I was viewed as a high potential talent in the company and I was rewarded with a lot of different positions for the work that I did and the results that I got. Where I faced a lot of gender discrimination is when I went into those operational roles, either from colleagues I was working with because they were men, or on ships because all of the leaders on the ships were men. When I took over the Marine organization, because it was all men, I felt like there were two things I had to figure out how to get around: one was the gender issue of a woman being in a world that truly only men had these executive roles and only men ascended and were promoted, and the other was that I was a girl, what did I know about being a captain or an engine room? So as I faced that skepticism, I adopted the attitude 'watch me prove you wrong.' I spent many years taking on all these different roles as the first woman, having to prove that I deserved to be where I was and figure out a way to work with all these men. As much progress as I made in gender equality and gender balance, the vast majority of everyone I worked with every day was still men. So I had to find my way as a woman. What I realized is it didn't take long. I admitted I didn't know as much as they did about what they did, I admitted I had never done their job before, and I asked them to perhaps think that just because I hadn't done their job, there must be other reasons why I was put in this role, and couldn't we figure out how to establish a mutually respectful and supportive relationship so we can all be successful. When you come from a position of strength, sometimes you run into a bully or two, and if you stand up to the bully, the bully usually becomes your biggest and staunchest supporter and advocate. So that's really how I assimilated into this very male-dominated environment. Then I learned over time that they really appreciated working for a woman and they really appreciated working for me. They were very sorry when I moved on from different positions. So I think it's only natural when a woman goes into these types of environments that have always and only been men, that there's going to be a level of skepticism, lack of acceptance, and then we have to prove that we belong here. And that's what I did.

Listen, I see everything that you do. I listen to everything, I see all the headlines. It's a little troubling that people now look at diversity as a dirty word for companies. People are afraid to use it, afraid to talk about it because of the backlash. It's a shame, that's how I feel about it. But what I see is different than what I hear. I still believe that people are looking for the best candidate. There's never been a time that I hired a diverse candidate that wasn't the most qualified person for the job. So I take exception to people who think that people are ticking boxes by bringing in diverse candidates. We're all looking to hire the best person for the job. But the fact that we don't look at diverse candidates or feel like we can't talk about looking at diverse candidates is fundamentally wrong. That said, what I see in practice is different than sometimes what you read. I see that companies are looking for diversity of thought, they are looking at diverse candidates, and they are hiring the best people for the job, and in many cases those are diverse candidates. I also believe that the pendulum swings. You go from everybody talking about it to now nobody can talk about it. People are afraid to talk about it. At some point in time it's all going to balance out again. People can't give up. People are doing it because it's the right thing, probably talking about it less.

Yeah, you know, I always believe that the connections we make are very interesting in life. We never know where they're going to take us, who we're going to meet, what kind of relationship we're going to be able to have or an impact we're going to be able to have. That's why I believe you should always network but you should always hold yourself to a really high standard because you never know when or where you're going to be talked about in a room for an opportunity. I got a text from a woman that I met. She was the fiancée and now the wife of a coworker. I had dinner with her as she was thinking about her own career. Fast forward, she took on a different role where she was one of the people in a room as they were talking about someone that they needed to lead the Miami Host Committee for the FIFA World Cup matches in 2026. Miami has seven of them. My name came up. It was just as I was stepping down from my position at Celebrity and getting ready to leave the company. I really thought I wanted to continue to do something that kept me really busy. Along with all my board work and my book and my Leadership Academy and all these things, I think I bit off a little more than I could chew, but for a year I was the head of the Miami Host Committee. I recently stepped down just because it was 24/7 all-consuming, and at this stage of my life I was looking for a little more balance. So it took courage to say maybe I should have stuck with my original plan, but what was really exciting and interesting is that we put together a great team. I met all the other host cities in the United States. We got together quite often, shared all our excitement, all the challenges, all the opportunities. It is a tremendously complex thing to pull off. It's 16 different cities in North America, first time it's ever been done. I think there are 50% more teams and 62% more matches than ever before, and it's happening during the same six-week period in 16 different cities across the continent. So it's a big deal. You're dealing with the federal government on security and safety, visa issues, transportation issues. It was quite an interesting year. I got it to a pretty good place now with big fundraising activities, final touches on all the different logistics, fan activations, and community legacy projects. There are so many wonderful things that happen with the World Cup. By the way, it's the biggest sporting event in the world and it's going to be happening in 11 different cities including Miami, but it's actually going to impact the entire state. Miami is the city where the matches are being played at Hard Rock Stadium, but we're expecting 800,000 visitors to the region, to the state, and close to $2 billion in economic impact. So this is a really big deal. All those people will fly into all the airports, stay in hotels all across the state, use Brightline, eat in the restaurants. The economic boom to the region as well as all the excitement is going to be tremendous. It's going to be great.

Thank you Leticia, I appreciate you asking me about it. It's launching right after the first of the year. We launched it to the initial waitlist of over 150 people just before Thanksgiving, and now we're going to open it up after the first of the year for everyone. You can find out more at lisalutoffperlo.com. It is a 12-module course on leadership and all the things that I felt were most valuable in leadership, why they're valuable, stories related to them, outcomes related to them. We're going to continue to add modules over time. Once a month for 30 minutes I do a virtual call where everyone can join live. We talk about leadership, ask questions, talk as a group. There's also a community where all these different people can have their own conversations about leadership, and they can email me any questions they want about leadership, a problem they're having, or advice they want anytime. That's all part of the academy as well. I'm excited about it. It's the next level from the book in terms of how I hope I can help people become the types of leaders that people want to be led by. It's for leaders at all levels. So yes, that's pretty exciting. It's something very new for me.

I know, it's crazy. I'm careful because we can overexpose ourselves and I never want to do that, but you're right. There's got to be some balance. People want to know you as a human being, not just 'she was president CEO, blah blah.' Who cares? But yes, those are the ones that get the most comments and traction. I couldn't believe it. I forgot which one, but I was like 'holy crap, look at how many comments they got' and it wasn't even about me, it was about somebody else. But you're right, Leticia. It's a great tool to sense what message is resonated and what message is needed in the world.

The only thing I would say is I continue to evolve. One of my favorite expressions is by Darwin: 'Evolve on the front of the t-shirt and become extinct on the back.' I believe that we all need to evolve. Some of us look at ourselves as one-dimensional and don't believe there are different things we can do, different value we can add, different opportunities out there. We associate ourselves with only one thing or one company and think that's all we can or will be. But just like I did in our business, I evolved it, I transformed it. We have to do that for ourselves as well. So as I post things, do the Leadership Academy, join boards, become chairwoman, write a book, I want to keep either giving back or evolving as a human being and the value I might be able to add to different people in their lives. I think we should all think about that more because we have so many dimensions that sometimes we don't explore.

I try to find quiet time and space because I feel like the best way I get myself through things is to be quiet and think about it and look for my inner strength to come through and get me through those times. Often I talk about things that are not good or bother me or have impacted me after I've gotten through them. Some people feel they need to talk about it while it's going on. I really feel like I need to go into myself and find my inner strength to get through. Then I have the ability to talk about it at that point. I'm either looking for validation of how I'm thinking or different what I'm thinking. I take it and sometimes I don't. But I really do that by myself. When I was going through COVID and when I was going through the awful time of losing my sister, every day I woke up and I told myself: 'What's your silver lining? Find the silver lining today. What is the silver lining in all of this awful mess that is happening in your life right now on both dimensions, personally and professionally?' One or the other is hard enough. Both of them at the same time, I don't even know how it didn't completely break me, if I'm perfectly honest. But I just tried to go back into myself and find my inner strength and try to look for the good in the bad that was happening around me. I found that I was able to get myself through those times by doing that. I was able to get my family and also the 20,000 people that were waiting to get back into business through that as well. I always felt that despite what I was going through at any given time, my responsibility was bigger than what I was going through myself. I had to find a way to keep people hopeful.