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Gavin Wood
Founder, Polkadot

Polkadot Decoded. Una Charla de Bar con Gavin Wood, Fundador de Polkadot

🎥 Apr 07, 2022 📺 Polkadot Hub ⏱ 51m 👁 81 views
... mismos niños adultos por supuesto quizás se sorprendan al escuchar que Gavin Wood cofundador de Polkadot, cofundador de ...
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About Gavin Wood

Gavin Wood has been actively promoting the JAM (Join Accumulate Machine) protocol, which he described as a candidate successor to Polkadot. In a documentary released in December 2024, Wood stated that a key goal of JAM is to "decentralize the expertise of the protocol," addressing what he called the concentrated and centralized nature of the current Polkadot protocol. He also released a formal specification for JAM, the Gray Paper, and said he would put forward a governance motion for DOT token holders to ratify JAM as the direction for Polkadot. Wood has characterized JAM as the "second iteration" of Polkadot's core technology, repackaging it to be more useful for building products, and has said he expects it to be ready within the next year. Wood has also outlined a strategic shift for Parity Technologies, moving from an infrastructure-focused approach to building products directly. In interviews, he said he came to the conclusion that he wanted to see more interesting products on Polkadot and that "we need to build them" because others are not. He described a "second age" for Parity, with the first ten years focused on core technology and the next ten on infrastructure and products. Wood also introduced "Project Individuality," a proof-of-personhood system for Polkadot that he said relies on "game theory, cryptography, and a degree of physical attributes of humans and of spacetime" and requires no central authority. He has discussed plans for a "Polkadot People" initiative, including mechanisms like "proof of ink" and "proof of video interaction" to recognize unique individuals.

Source: AI-verified profile updated from Gavin Wood's recent appearances. Browse all interviews →

Transcript (44 segments)
✨ AI-enhanced transcript with speaker attribution
H
Host0:06
Welcome back. A question for our audience: do you know where your elementary or high school friends are today? Could you imagine in your current career working directly with those same kids—adults, of course? Perhaps you'd be surprised to hear that Gavin Wood, co-founder of Polkadot and co-founder of Ethereum, and a computer scientist throughout his life and career, has found that he's kept his close friends closer than most. Today, Gav is joined by Alistair Stewart, who is the principal researcher at the Web3 Foundation, working on protocol design, the architect of Grandpa and many other core Polkadot protocols, and also Aeron Buchanan, a council member of the Web3 Foundation who worked closely with Gav on the Ethereum Foundation team when they were building Ethereum 1.0. The three have advanced degrees in computer science, worked on building Ethereum, and have spent the last four years building Polkadot. Decades after first meeting in a high school in the UK, for today's closing act, we thought it would be great to have these three with a beer or two to talk about life's work and Web 3.0. Welcome, gentlemen.
Coordinate this, and we're going to try to hit the middle. Ready, three, two, one. Cheers, it worked.
So to start, I set the stage: you've known each other for a very long time, so maybe you can tell the story of how you all met. Let's begin, clockwise starting with Gav.
G
Gavin Wood1:57
Well, I met Aeron and Al probably at lunchtime when we were like 11 years old. But I met Aeron later since he lived not far from my grandmother's house, so when I used to stay there in Lancaster, I'd go on his paper round, help him deliver newspapers and talk about various things. We also worked together a bit in school on other random projects, one of which was a nice little computer game. Al, of course, I met in school, but we became much closer friends at some point after we all left school. Most of us returned to Lancaster for beers to catch up on how life was going. A few years later, we ended up talking a lot about various scientific topics, especially computers, and we ended up working very closely together at the foundation.
H
Host3:21
Great. Before we go deeper into the beers or the computer science part, Al and I were talking the other day and I was a bit surprised when he said—I asked him when was the first time you remember us all having a beer together? Al, maybe you can tell us what you remember.
A
Alistair Stewart3:40
Well, I'm pretty sick—we all had a good amount of alcohol before we were 18, but together, maybe not until after. But I think it was definitely like how I remember Aeron giving a lift back before going to university. Friday, Saturday nights playing pool and having some beers. Sure, I was a designated driver many years after school, so I was there drinking in spirit but not spirits literally.
H
Host4:25
So you all grew up with some of the early types of personal computers and the internet. Tell us how was the first time you learned about programming and started building or learning those skills together? How was it?
A
Aeron Buchanan4:42
My first computer was a ZX Spectrum 48k where the RAM had to be physically inserted into the back of the machine. My first foray into programming was with basic sine waves drawn on the screen. But after finishing paper rounds, we'd often go back to Gav's grandparents' and talk about the latest things Gav was looking into. I clearly remember threading being a pretty good topic for quite a while before building larger games.
A
Alistair Stewart5:24
In my case, I definitely got into coding when I was about eight years old. I was just trying to see what this machine—in this case an Amstrad PCW—could do, like you do at that age. You manage to print things from the city. It's the best way to learn.
H
Host5:47
What about you?
G
Gavin Wood5:53
The origin of electronic music, yeah. My first computer was a Texas Instruments TI 99/4A. I got it second-hand from the guy across the street for about 10 pounds. It wasn't the best machine, it was pretty old even when I bought it in '88 or '89, but all my friends at school had Spectrums, some of the lucky ones had an Amiga 500, but that wasn't going to be my destiny for some years. I guess the good thing, in retrospect, about having this Texas Instruments machine was that it really didn't have any games. It came with some version of Basic, didn't even have the manual—I just had to learn by trial and error. But a friend in the same housing estate had the manual, so I borrowed it from time to time. More likely, I'd go to his house because he sometimes wanted to borrow it, and I'd read it while he was playing. That was my way of self-teaching. Eventually, I got a Spectrum, a ZX Spectrum +3, which had a disk drive, but the disks were incredibly expensive. It had CP/M? No, three-inch disks. So my Amstrad PCW had three-inch disk drives and CP/M, and that was so bad—like three pounds per disk or something, completely unaffordable. So I mostly programmed on that and then on the Amiga 500. That's when things started to get a bit better: I could make music, made some music snippets on the machine, and also made some video games. One of them was like a Bomberman clone. I co-created it with Aeron. Aeron did all the graphics, and it ended up looking quite good, even got a pretty decent review in the biggest magazine at the time for the Amiga.
I'll share the magazine page. I think it was September 1996. A pretty well-reviewed game, although they said in any other week it wouldn't have won the top prize, and they noted that Bomberman Professional is a much better game to play. Light criticism.
H
Host8:40
So you mentioned Aeron, that was an early project working with computers. You had done a lot of programming, and Aeron, you were working on some of the designs.
A
Aeron Buchanan8:54
Obviously you know you're running through the maze with your bombs and you had to contend with a wide variety of enemies, and they all had to look distinctive and threatening, so geometric shapes featured prominently in this design.
H
Host9:18
Honestly, games were a bit different, but in a more fun way, I find myself going back to liking Tetris and having more fun with it than I often do with Call of Duty today, which is interesting. Did you have any other kind of computing experiences together that have influenced the way you think and work today? You worked together on a board game and you still love playing board games together. Tell me a bit about the board game you put together.
G
Gavin Wood9:51
It's great. We loved playing board games—we still do, although I don't have much time for many board games these days. But we used to go to a board game convention called Sheffield Triples. This was something we all liked from childhood, though unfortunately it's moved location now, it's kind of outside the city part of Sheffield instead of at the university. But I digress: the idea was that we used to go to a board game shop. If you've seen the Simpsons, you know the comic book guy. There was a guy who ran this board game shop in Lancaster who looks quite similar to the comic book guy in the Simpsons, and he also had a stall at this convention. So it became a kind of focal point of the year, as much as Christmas or Eurovision, a time to get together and play some games. And one of these years, I thought, some of these games have interesting mechanics, wouldn't it be nice to try to combine them? So around Christmas or New Year of 2000—actually more like 2008 or 2009, I guess—we were sitting in the pub, I think it was, I can't remember who of us it was, but I don't think I was involved. Then we said, let's try to make this game with a chessboard and a deck of cards. I think we went to a shop in the Lancaster area and bought a couple of packs of cards and a chessboard. I remember going into one of these pound shops and buying the necessary equipment. And then, you know, having a pint of beer, marking some cards and marking the board, and thinking up some rules. It was great fun, we did it for quite a few days in a row. Eventually the rules matured, and then it turned into a case of production. Aeron spent a lot of time cutting small wooden blocks.
A
Aeron Buchanan12:22
Many small wooden blocks. I still have the notebook where I designed all the different components. I drew a dozen different ideas for each piece and how they could tile together and how they would fit on the board to demonstrate all the different aspects of the evolving rule system. But in the end, there's a lot of design: how do you do this by hand in my garage? I had a laser cutter set up, and that was a big buzz. I also had a standard automatic sander where you could feed blocks in the top, they'd come down and be sanded until they were smooth enough to paint. This was actually a sander sitting upside down with a funnel on top—that was the feed.
That was a lot of wooden blocks and a lot of paint. Binge-watching various boring TV shows—I think I watched a lot of CSI while painting blocks that Christmas. About 60,000 blocks in the end. Wow. Because each game has about 200 blocks? No, more than that, including the rather good production.
H
Host14:11
So from blocks to blockchains. I'm not sure my mother would have supported it in the same way—when you're cleaning this up exactly, she knew what the future held with blocks, she was very progressive in that way.
Incredible paintings. We'll definitely have to share a couple of these images afterwards. As I said, I have the Bomberman magazine, and we'll get some good shots of you, Aeron, of the Milton Keynes board game that we can distribute. I think it's very fun. You can start to see how computer science and game theory are two really important pieces for building these distributed consensus systems. So moving forward a bit: you all went to university, kept in touch, achieved fairly advanced degrees in computer science. Gav, you continued a mix of your love for music and electronics and computer science in your academic career. Maybe you could talk a bit about that phase of your development.
G
Gavin Wood15:26
Sure. This was a bit after the board game escapade. It didn't take long to realize the board game wasn't going to make us millionaires, so we decided to try to do something a bit more useful for the world, I suppose. And we had the idea of doing a PhD in music visualization, creating big light shows. We built a system that could help run and orchestrate light shows for concerts and nightclubs. Aeron and I formed a partnership, Lancaster Logic Response was the company name, and we set out to build a box that could extract music from audio and send lighting instructions to the common lights that could interpret them. We spent about a year and a half doing this, and we installed it in a couple of clubs in London. We made some business contacts—one of them still owes us 80 quid, and we won't bother holding on to that. That nightclub was amazing. I was there with the drill, drilling into the wall to mount all this advanced lighting modules placed in the wall of robotic lights that would swing to the beat of the music. Getting it all set up was great. And Gav, you're wearing a rather luminous shirt today to make sure the light works. The DMX instructions could be created from the software I was making, connecting it to music information retrieval systems similar to what I studied for my PhD. I remember doing a gig with my housemate at the time, who was an electronic musician, installing it in this club and having a real-time light show where we were pumping different elements of the music into the box. I made a pretty nice design for the box—the physical thing installed in the nightclub looked quite sweet. I remember one notable engineering decision: we were trying to use a Raspberry Pi to run the software to generate the light show. It needed to connect to a Wi-Fi controller, but the Raspberry Pi's Wi-Fi card would randomly disconnect after about an hour and not reconnect. We tried an external Wi-Fi card, same problem. The drivers on Linux just weren't made for mission-critical Wi-Fi. We eventually concluded the best way was to get a super cheap router, like a 10-pound router, put it in the box with the Raspberry Pi, have a wired connection between them, and then the tablet would connect to the router instead of trying to have both connect via Wi-Fi. It worked perfectly. The only issue was we had to somehow get power into the router. So the crucial engineering element of this whole thing—connecting daisy chains, the nightclub lights—and we had a beautiful box with a laser-engraved logo and a really cool-looking antenna sticking out of the cheap router. But the critical engineering aspect was making sure the heatsink was attached to the casing well enough so that the whole thing wouldn't melt after an hour of operation in a crowded club.
H
Host20:59
Yes, it sounds like the production team here is laughing a bit about where we had installed. We set up a mesh network to get a better internet connection to ensure video streaming, and the problems persist. I think it will be like that forever.
Moving on a bit, Al, your career path took you more into academia for longer.
A
Alistair Stewart21:30
Yes, while these guys tried to set up businesses for nightclub lights, I was persuaded to go back to university and do computer science. Originally I did maths, didn't do much with it, ended up hanging around in Lancaster with Gav. But then I went back to university, did computer science, and just stayed there basically: master's, PhD, then postdoc. I went deeper into a more theoretical direction, given my background, it made sense. I got more into theoretical computer science, and I think this gave me a different perspective on blockchain than many cryptographers and systems people.
H
Host22:21
So tell us how you found your way from academia to the Web3 Foundation more recently.
A
Alistair Stewart22:30
Well, I'd been exposed to this stuff. I remember hanging out with Gav when he was coding Ethereum in the early days, working every day until 8 pm, even on Christmas, New Year's, holidays. They even came to Devon when they were at a panel—but that was later. So I was exposed to this idea. I didn't hear about Bitcoin until Ethereum came around. Then Gavin, when they were setting up EthDev in Berlin, invited me a couple of times. I started looking at proof of stake, how to do that, because Ethereum had a plan to do proof of stake in 2014 and it's about to start happening now. We looked at existing systems and saw why they didn't work. I ended up at Devcon 0, talked a bit with Vlad, ended up on a panel for which the video can no longer be found. At that point I could have given up and gone to Ethereum, but you know how it is: staying in academia, learning how to think, how to write, how to approach the kinds of problems we do—that helped me. But I always kept following what was happening in the blockchain space. In 2017, when taxi drivers—you know, people you hired as Uber drivers—started asking you about Bitcoin, at that point it was like, this deserves another look. I had a postdoc at Stanford, had visa issues, had to go back to Britain for three months, so I thought I should ask for a job. I'm still here three years later.
H
Host24:51
Amazing. So I want to come back to you in a minute and talk about some protocol design within Polkadot. But Aeron, how about you give a little summary of how you were brought in and worked with Gav on Ethereum the first time, and then what you learned from that experience and how you applied it to Polkadot, hopefully smoothing out some of the bumps that the Ethereum project dealt with from the start.
A
Aeron Buchanan25:26
Obviously, the Ethereum project in retrospect is a big deal, and there is a lot to learn from that. But something that sticks in my mind is when Gav first explained the concept that became Ethereum. We were in the back seat of a bus driving to London from a Stanford airport. Gav was going through the mechanics of how the Ethereum protocol would work. I didn't fully understand it at the time, but it was clear this was something important. Discussions continued over the following months, and then I had the idea to set up in Berlin, which for many reasons was an excellent idea. But starting a development shop from scratch is nobody's idea of easy. So in Berlin, we needed a place to work, we needed people to actually do the work, and everything had to be done in a very short time. This whole situation made for a very tight budget. I think, technically speaking, I could probably build the base of Ethereum for quite a few articles—which is not a problem now, but at the time, getting everything set up was quite stressful. But it really struck me the importance of getting the right people working in the right environment, because it's very easy to end up with conflicts of interest and people trying to take advantage—or people who just don't agree on things. So getting good people who are on board and ready to focus is very important. The experience, as well as the contacts from setting up EthDev, made the Polkadot project go much more easily.
H
Host28:22
Gav, anything to add there before we jump into more of the latest and greatest of Polkadot?
G
Gavin Wood28:28
Well, Ethereum actually started in Lancaster with these guys. For me at least, Vitalik had published the white paper maybe one or two weeks before I saw it. One of my colleagues told me about it—Johnny Bitcoin, who is also a colleague of Vitalik's. That would have been around early December, I guess. Mid-December, I was going back to Lancaster for Christmas and was in the pub with, I suppose, probably these two guys, and said, oh yes, I'm going to start coding this protocol called Ethereum. And we were like, oh yes, fair enough. So I went to Daos', a mutual friend who also went to school with us, when they were just after Christmas, usually relaxing there for a few days, often over New Year. That's when I really started. I think I initially started coding Ethereum a few days before Christmas, but many of the bigger commits were between Christmas and New Year 2013. I remember sitting on the sofa with probably Aeron and Al wandering around the room trying to help Jeff, the other coder from the Ethereum founding group. Fast forward, we got to, I guess, June or July, and I think it was June when we persuaded you to go on a road trip—it didn't last as long as a road trip, it was more like a hitchhike to Berlin. But we stayed in Berlin for a time, moved there together. I stayed there for a few months, I guess, around mid-2014, and that's where we were when the Ethereum crowdsale occurred. Not long before the Ethereum crowdsale, I think the three of us got together and started thinking about proof of stake for the first time. I think it was when we were staying in Bleichestrasse in Berlin in this fairly large apartment, and it was the three of us, and we were trying to come up with a proof-of-stake algorithm. At that time, we were looking at all the other things, and Al came up with a way to overcome the next attack, which I think was probably the most important proof-of-stake protocol at that time. We thought, okay, if we know this amount of hash power and can enter with this attack in this 15-second timeframe, then we can take over the next protocol. That was something we all came up with in a couple of hours on that apartment floor. So we came up with a design for a proof-of-stake algorithm, but we never pursued it, of course, because everything was focused on getting proof of work done on Ethereum. Then we pushed forward, had EthDev set up in Berlin, and as a subsidiary of the UK operations, also UK operations were set up. So it was a pretty busy time, but fortunately it turned out well and Ethereum was delivered. But I remember trying to persuade Al to come in at that time, and yeah, it wasn't going to happen. It wouldn't be until a few years later that it finally did. He came and said, can you give me a job at the Web3 Foundation for a while between academic activities, and as you said, you're still here.
H
Host33:14
So maybe this is a good place where you finally delivered a proof-of-stake protocol that is now in production in Kusama and Polkadot. Do you want to talk a bit about your background and thinking about proof of stake? As Gav mentioned earlier, you were on the first proof-of-stake panel at Ethereum Devcon 0 with Vitalik and Vlad, but now you created Grandpa and contributed and designed many of the protocols that power Polkadot.
A
Alistair Stewart35:15
I can't pretend I really knew about the crucial attack in 2014; we might have had this plan to attack next, but that wasn't particularly impressive because in that panel Vitalik wanted it to be adversarial but nobody wanted to take the proof-of-work slide and it didn't really work. So after returning from academia, I caught up with the latest and best in proof-of-stake design—Casper FFT, Casper TFG, Vitalik's and Vlad's protocols for Ethereum, and what everyone else was doing with Byzantine agreement—and tried to figure out how a proof-of-stake protocol would work. Of course, I had no idea about the area, but it's still relatively easy because it's all math; the only math involved is counting. I came up with Grandpa, and the good thing was I proved it worked within a week. Rob was already coding it, possibly because I pointed out some of the flaws in Rhododendron, the consensus that Parity was using at the time. That was a different experience. From academia, we came up with some very good ideas on how to do things correctly in machine learning, how to deal with errors in your data with arbitrary errors from a malicious source, but not enough people actually cared to use them. Then we moved into blockchain and things were very different. So I came with Grandpa; that was a different experience mainly because I was the only researcher at the Web3 Foundation at the time. After that, we worked on other protocols, brought in more people so we could work on, maybe, the ability with Jeff, final with Alfonso, and Babe with Handan and all these protocols that ended up being the reason Polkadot is slow and doesn't work—but it's probably a bit more secure than it would otherwise be. It's been fun. Jokes aside about Polkadot being slow and not working, big props to you and your team for delivering much of the research and technical foundations for the code that runs today.
H
Host36:35
I think that's actually a good bridge to start discussing where we are today and maybe give the community a little update. I know we're in the middle of getting parachains live on Kusama, so if you'd like to give a little review, maybe the truncated version of your blog post we published earlier this week, which we'll share again in the chat for people to take a look at.
G
Gavin Wood37:01
Sure. I'm sure everyone here knows we've been working toward the final phase of launch for some time. Parachains have been around the corner for a while now, but we're at the point where we have reasonably enough confidence to send our canary network into the void and sniff the atmosphere. Our parachain supplement has been running reasonably well on Rococo; we've seen a lot of different chains there, they've progressed very well. So we decided to start the final stage of launch, which involves introducing it into Kusama. It happens in several stages inevitably. The first is to implement the parachain logic—everything to do with parachains in the runtime and in the validator code of the network. So validators need to upgrade to client version 0.9, which supports parachains. Fortunately, the vast majority on Kusama already have it. Then the Kusama runtime needs to be upgraded to support parachains—runtime upgrade 9010—and that all happened last week. Next, we introduced a deployment parachain, which happened on Monday: the parachain Shell. I wrote its runtime in the last few weeks. It's very, very simple—probably the simplest runtime ever written. It really does nothing except listen for upgrades or authority changes, so it only knows how to upgrade itself. But it's a good first step because it has to progress; we can see the block number increasing, blocks being added and finalized, and they're being validated and backed. This is all a very important test to make sure it's working before we do anything serious, like starting to issue a real parachain such as Statemint or Statemind for Kusama and then issuing tokens. Shell was launched on Monday. We found a couple of bugs—well, a few bugs, but you always find bugs in software. They are being fixed, and we expect to release 0.9.2 very soon, today or tomorrow, which will fix these issues. Once we're sure Shell is running smoothly for 24 hours, we'll upgrade it to Statemind. Statemind is a common-good parachain, so it doesn't have special tokens or anything; it's useful for Kusama overall, allowing anyone to issue tokens. Eventually it will also support NFTs and be compatible with XCM, so other parachains can own and move tokens stored on Statemind. This should hopefully happen later this week if all goes well. Once that's done and we're happy Statemind is running correctly, we'll start the auctions. Other teams will throw their hats in to deploy their chains. These will be the first parachains deployed on a relay chain in the world, so expect chaos—but hopefully not too much. Auctions will begin soon; I'll post a blog when we finalize it, but it seems likely the auctions will be for seven days each. Five of those days may or may not count towards deciding the winner; it's a candle auction but retroactive. Basically, two days are like a normal auction: if you bid highest, you definitely win over previous bids. After those first two days, the running period becomes this uncertain final period, which will continue for five days anyway, but we'll choose a random point in those five days when the auction will be decided retroactively. This means even if you bid higher later, there's a chance it won't be counted; an earlier, lower bid could still win. This has been thoroughly analyzed by the Web3 research team, and it's a solid plan, I'm told. The expectation is that the highest bids should come within two days, and there won't be many large bids in the final period, but we'll see. So seven-day auctions one after another. We'll do five initially, then see how Kusama is behaving, and if it looks good, we'll probably leave it for a week or two. If it looks good, we'll continue—conservatively, but expand as much as we think the network can handle. It's worth noting this is the first time we've done this, so Kusama is very much the canary and the coal mine here. It's both an experiment and running tests on testnet or even unit tests. We don't know how it will behave with real incentives, real transactions, real code, real teams making real mistakes. Once Kusama seems stable with a few parachains, maybe even multiple, we'll start the same process on Polkadot.
H
Host45:10
Great. Anything else to add, Al or Aeron, about where Polkadot is right now? Otherwise, I have a couple of fun questions and then we'll close it out for the day.
A
Alistair Stewart45:23
Even if we have parachains working well on testnet, working well in the real world, validators doing the right thing, we need to educate them to make the right decisions because in this world with parachains, validators will be very different. They're going to be doing different things. We need to scale this protocol, test it in real-world conditions, and we know we'll scale it slowly. There will be bugs along the way; we'll stop and at certain levels pass. The path to 200 parachains won't be smooth, I don't think, on either Kusama or Polkadot, but I think we'll get there. Similarly, with all the other features we need to add.
A
Aeron Buchanan46:11
The key point is that it will be much more fluid and manageable with governance, rather than having to fork the chain every time we need to fix a bug. We've learned from Ethereum, Bitcoin, and other non-governance systems how many bugs there are. There are many bugs we fix in Kusama—it's amazing—but the governance model works. It's had a number of interesting outages, including needing to rewind time at one point to convince people they hadn't finalized something, but it still worked. We need this because what we're trying to implement is much more complicated than what has been done in blockchain in the past.
G
Gavin Wood47:03
It's taken maybe 20 to 50 experienced developers, depending on how you count, three years to get to where we are now, which is right at the point of launching fully functional parachains. Compare that to the few weeks it took me and Jeff to get a working version of Ethereum. A few weeks for one developer versus three years for 20, 30, 40 dozen experienced developers. That just shows exponential complexity. Bitcoin still doesn't implement the white paper. Ethereum, we were talking about Ethereum 2 proof of stake in 2014. It just takes so long to do anything worthwhile. But with a metaprotocol that has upgrades and forkless governance, the fluidity means these kinds of updates can happen much sooner.
H
Host48:28
True words. Two or three fun questions. First one being: Gav, a lot of people have asked, there seems to be a bionic arm on the table behind you. Is that a bionic arm?
G
Gavin Wood48:40
Ah, no, it's not a bionic arm—quite the opposite. It's not an arm of the future; rather, it's a hand of the past. It's a piece of armor. I'm not really a knight, so I don't need it day to day. It was a gift from an old friend, a lovely guy named Louie. Louie, if you're there, I hope Thailand is going well. He bought it on a random, presumably lonely night in London in 2014 on eBay and showed it to me when I was around that weekend. Last year, he said something like, your apartment looks a bit empty here, you have a lovely piece of armor. So I said thanks, and now it's one of my pieces. A small part of Polkadot's history. Louie was the designer—he wanted a chain like a nice chainmail vest—but I couldn't. I saw one in San Francisco before Burning Man a few years ago, but I was convinced not to buy it. The better part of me said I should, but the person I was with at the time insisted it was impractical. I think it would be great because it would build muscle mass and burn energy. But going through airport security probably wouldn't allow a chainmail vest. Obviously you don't walk through a metal detector. It's proof of stake, not for burning energy—personal energy, okay.
H
Host51:02
And the last question for you three: this was one of my favorites from the Q&A. If you were a three-person band, who plays bass?
A
Alistair Stewart51:16
I volunteer.
A
Aeron Buchanan51:20
Yeah, because I'd be on the truck. Aeron will be in the booth. I'd be on lead guitar, vocals.
H
Host51:31
Fantastic. Well, I thank you all for staying up late into the night to join us for closing out the first day of Polkadot Decoded. We look forward to seeing all the progress on Polkadot soon with parachains. Thank you very much.