Gas prices are dropping after the MOU is signed with Iran. JD at the podium and the latest on what we're doing to find a cure for cancer. Welcome to the Sean Spicer Show. All right, guys, good Friday to you. We have made it through the work week and we got a heck of a show coming your way today. Sit back, relax. This thing's going to blow your mind. Next week we've got a great show. We're going to break down all of the states with Adam Kincaid with respect to redistricting. Senator Dan Sullivan will be here. Plus the president's top political advisor James Blair is with us. Gas by the way is down below $4 for the first time since March. Clearly the effects of signing this MOU are kicking in. I think we're going to see below $3 a gallon gas soon. JD Vance at the White House breaking down everything yesterday. Take a look at how he responded to some of the critique.
I have seen some progressive criticisms of me personally saying, "What experience does the Vice President of the United States have with hostile high-stakes negotiations?" And I would point those progressive critics to the fact that just 2 days ago I spent over an hour on The View. So, I actually have great experience in very hostile negotiations. Joy Behar is way tougher than the Iranians, and she and I are best friends now. So, we're going to get to a good place here. It's just a question of whether we can really get the icing on the top of fundamentally transforming Iran's relationship with the world.
He just knows how to diffuse things. Put on a master class. And by the way, I've been reading this book that he put out. Fantastic read. Really personal story. This episode is going to be one of my favorites. Dr. Patrick Soon-Shiong is the world's foremost cancer doctor in my opinion. And the conversations that we've had in the past are mind-blowing. What we are doing to advance a cure for cancer, what we need to worry about. Trust me when I tell you this is going to blow your mind. What I want to know is what can we, each of us, be doing to reduce our chances of getting cancer, what tests are available, what's on the horizon, what's the role of AI. If you have cancer, if you know someone who has cancer, you are not going to want to miss this. Without further ado, my friend, Dr. Patrick Soon-Shiong. Doctor, always great to have you. So much has gone on since our last conversation. I want to start with a clip that I saw on the internet from a Senate hearing. It blew my mind. I want to play it for the audience and then have you react.
See, what people who'd been stable with cancer, melanoma, for years started relapsing at the beginning of '22. And I asked for any reason why this might have occurred, and I noticed they'd all been given boosters by their GPs, which if they'd asked me, I wouldn't have done that. And so we had to look around, what's the reason? Why would a booster allow a cancer to come back? Well, it turned out it's very simple that boosters suppress the T-cell response. The first two will increase it a bit, but a booster suppresses it. And that's exactly what we found. But then a group from Madrid published a wonderful paper saying T-cell exhaustion after third COVID vaccine in cancer patients, with incredible data showing it very clearly. And so therefore any cancer suppressed and controlled by the immune system, you suspect might pop up after the booster. Surgeons noted their colorectal patients were very difficult to treat. They were presenting late, and they were presenting young. And they found that these patients had all had the booster too. And I called it a red flag, just the suspicion that the vaccine might be involved in the cancer.
Are there any studies that have linked the mRNA to cancer? Is there any sort of medical process that you can allude to that backs that up?
The strongest are the epidemiological studies. And the strongest was from Japan, a paper by Gibo and his colleagues, which just had the raw data, and they noticed that the number of new cancer cases went up with each booster vaccine.
Okay, doctor, explain to me what we just heard because this doctor seems to be saying, I'm not a doctor, right? My untrained ear heard a guy basically say, if you're getting the booster shot, it's suppressing the T-cell that you and I have always talked about. Can you put in English what was just said in terms of what this means for the average person?
Okay, Sean. Let me unpack that. Again, we have to be very careful. What he's been talking about, and the evidence does support that, is the spike protein.
So, the COVID virus carries on its surface this protein called spike. That's how it enters the cells. It uses this protein spike, quite literally, to enter through this thing called ACE2 receptor into your body. So, this spike protein, whether it's carried by a booster, whether it's carried by a vaccine, or it's carried by an infection, I don't think I can get into that because I don't know in these patients where the spike protein comes from. But let's talk about the science around the spike protein. And that's very real now and very concerning. There's now umpteen very well-studied peer-reviewed papers out there that speak to the increased incidence of cancer as a result, we believe, of inflammation and immunosuppression from the spike protein.
So it seems to be saying many, I mean, millions of us have had COVID. So is this saying that if you've had COVID, you're at a higher risk or a lower risk from being able to suppress a cancer cell?
Yes, and it seems to be saying not just if you had COVID, but you've had spike protein that resides in your body. Now, you do know that the vaccines were made based on the spike protein. We do know that when you get infection, the virus infection comes in because of the spike protein. The most important question, let me unpack that. Once you get infected, or even vaccinated, but let's just talk about the infection so we don't have the controversial issues about the vaccinations. I want to talk about the science around the spike protein. Now, there's a magnificent paper by the group from UC San Francisco, Tim Henrich, who's shown now, pre-COVID and post-COVID, that he's done incredible science where he's looked at the persistence of the spike protein in the tissue of the colon, in tissue of the brain, in tissue of the parotids, and it lasts for up to 2 years, double-stranded RNA spike protein. That's really very concerning because the hallmarks of a virus that can increase the risk of cancer — one is its persistence. There's clear scientific fundamental evidence that it now persists, meaning the spike protein. Two, does it cause inflammation? And three, does it cause what we call immunosuppression of your cells, the T cells, that help protect you from cancer. Well, it appears to do all three. It persists, it causes inflammation, and that's why we can explain a lot of the long COVID, and then there's now very strong evidence of immunosuppression. One of the most strong evidence just got published this year, this month actually, by the University of Virginia and at Cedars-Sinai in a paper in Cell. In this paper, what they've shown is that not only are the viruses there, but it actually suppresses the immune system to the point that it increases risk of lung cancer. So now we have increased colon cancer, increased lung cancer, and this paper shows a mechanistic way in which it does that. The scientists showed that when you have this virus, you stimulate a cell called a neutrophil that completely suppresses the immune system and increases lung cancer. And now the third paper that has come out, from Spain, and what is very disturbing there in colorectal and anal cancer, they were able to biopsy the cancer tissue itself, and inside that cancer tissue was spike protein and this virus. So we have three independent, very well-respected articles in peer-reviewed journals that show that if you have a viral infection like COVID, the chances and risk of getting cancer is higher.
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Well, that's the issue, I think, that's going to face us as scientists, as researchers, as drug developers, for the next decade. I was always fearful that if we did not develop a treatment or vaccine or therapy that did not clear the virus, meaning clear the virus itself from your body, you would end up in this state. So, the treatment is to find ways to clear the virus. And the only things that clear the virus from your body are certain cells in your body that I suppose best way to say it, chomp up the bad cells, and they are called macrophages, natural killer cells, and T cells. And if you can find a way to activate those cells in response to these cells that are contaminated with the virus, you have a shot.
Is it correct from my understanding of the literature that right now these tissue-based T cells remain in your body for up to 2 years? So if that's true, does that mean after you've had COVID for 2 years, you are then not at that same risk?
No, these unfortunately — what they're showing now, these aren't good T cells. These are sometimes exhausted T cells. That's the problem. A T cell can be a good T cell that kills, or a T cell could be the opposite cell that actually suppresses. And a T cell could be an exhausted T cell. Sadly, it appears that when you have COVID and long COVID and persistent virus, you end up in the exhausted phase or the phase of the cell that is suppressed. It puts your body in a defenseless position and a pro-tumor position, meaning sadly, this could explain why we're seeing this increased risk and increase rise in cancer and more importantly in young people.
Okay, I want to get to that in just a second. Considering how many people had COVID once, twice, in some cases multiple times, do you believe just based on the evidence that you've seen and the data that you've seen that we are going to see a major rise in cancer detection over say the next couple decades?
I think we're already seeing that, Sean. That's what's worrying me. I think if you speak to most oncologists in the nation and the world and you see all these papers, they're actually saying — if I may read from this paper — and this is from very reputable institutions: University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, University of Virginia, Cedars-Sinai, Mayo Clinic Jacksonville. These are all the authors of this actual paper that just came out this month. It says, "Here we show that patients previously hospitalized with severe COVID-19 have an increased risk of subsequent lung cancer." So I'm referring to a paper published in Cell, a very highly respected peer-reviewed journal. I don't want to sound the alarm just for the sake of alarm, but oncologists, clinical practitioners, are now not only seeing a high instance of cancer, they're seeing high instance of people that were in remission and then post-COVID now get recurrences. Dr. DeChabert here at UCLA did that analysis and just presented that at ASCO — patients with breast cancer that were in complete remission or had complete pathological complete responses, once they had post-COVID or an ALC level low, they got recurrences. I've never seen in my personal career, and I've seen a lot of patients with metastatic pancreatic cancer — a 12-year-old boy with metastatic pancreatic cancer that we were able to treat and unfortunately weren't able to save. I worry about this now constantly. This is something that the world should come together to try and address.
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I can't answer that question. Shortness of breath. It's very hard for me to answer any questions about what the government does or doesn't do. But I can tell you this is a real issue. I can tell you that the call to action is really, really important. Maybe the United Nations or somebody at the government level, a larger body, has to address this. But maybe us in the private sector, we are trying to address this. And if you don't address this, this is what we call a health crisis. We call this a non-infectious pandemic. And that's what the World Health Organization has raised that alarm about. One of the most fearful things, especially in continents like Africa, where the next wave is this non-infectious pandemic of cancer.
We talked about young people a moment ago. From 1990 to 2019, the global incidence of early-onset cancer rose by 79%. What is driving this?
Well, that's exactly — I think now we've come full circle. It is not yet fully proven that COVID is what we call oncogenic. Let me describe what I mean by oncogenic. Viral infections can somehow in your body induce the causation or increased risk of cancer. Example: human papillomavirus, HPV. Patients with HPV have an increased risk of cervical cancer, head and neck cancer. Hepatitis — you have hepatitis, you increase risk of liver cancer, and so on. If, and I say this as an if until we fully prove it, but the evidence is now growing — COVID is an oncogenic virus, then we are in real trouble because we then have to address this and seeing this increased incidence of cancer, and because we're seeing this in young people. It says that this virus is immunosuppressing even a young body's immune system.
When you say if, is it a matter of time that we find this out, meaning we just need to study it for longer, or is it just that we're not — there's got to be more data and studies done, or is it just that regardless of the number of studies it just takes a longer period of time?
Well, the evidence of oncogenic viruses will take time because what you're going to need is — as you begin to see now, the study that came out of UC San Francisco shows you double-stranded DNA going for 2 years and longer at the site of infection. You're seeing now a patient from Spain where they biopsy the tumor cell itself in the colon and see the COVID virus. So the question is: is it an actor or is it just a bystander? In order for it to be an actor, meaning participating in the causation of cancer, you need to then say does it also block a thing called P53? Does it block the genes in your body that protect you from cancer? I think that evidence has been developed. I know actually that evidence is being developed. I think until it gets published in a peer-reviewed journal and validated by multiple centers, when that comes through, and we can call it an oncogenic virus by everybody agreeing to that fact, then I think we can call it that. I say if now because while the evidence may be growing, I think we need a little bit more evidence and more time. But I'm worried now because we're already seeing — I don't think there's any question just as you gave this quotation of the numbers — that the number of cancer patients both young and relapsed is increasing dramatically.
Beyond the age, there also appears to be a gender issue. There is a rise, particularly pronounced in women under 50 years old, who are now according to the studies I've read, 82% more likely to be diagnosed than their male counterparts. Breast and thyroid cancers make up nearly half of this. What is it that's so specific about the female anatomy that is causing the rise in females versus males in this type of cancer?
I'm not sure we really fully understand it, but you're completely right. I'm seeing now, for example, very high incidence of breast cancer in very young women. I'm seeing now in our clinic patients who were in remission and now all of a sudden rapid recurrence. I'm seeing instances of thyroid cancer and breast cancer, whether it's hormonally related or whether in fact, for example, in prostate cancer, which is another hormonally driven tumor, there's a gene associated with the prostate called the TMPRSS2 gene that allowed a higher penetration of the COVID spike protein. Now, whether that exists also in breast and in thyroid, I think remains to be explored. But yes, there's a molecular dynamic that happens in some of these tissues, and I really believe it's part of the spike protein problem.
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Well, think about this now. I have never seen in the history of my career metastatic pancreatic cancer in 11-year-old, 12-year-old. We now have reports, and I've spoken to the doctors who are now seeing colorectal cancer in 10-year-olds. Think about it — 10 and 11-year-olds. There has to be some relationship because we had never seen that before. There's a syndrome called Lynch syndrome, L-Y-N-C-H syndrome, that affects maybe close to 2 million Americans that don't realize they have it. They have an 80% higher risk of colon cancer. Now, if you have both a combination of Lynch syndrome and an immunosuppressed environment from COVID, would you get a high instance of cancer? If you have inflammation in the colon like ulcerative colitis or Crohn's disease, so this is where all this happens. And then finally, the ACE2 receptor that is the harbor receptor for the spike protein has high levels in the colon and the rectum. So there's enough circumstantial evidence that says it's all about the spike protein here.
