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David Holz
CEO & Founder, Midjourney

Midjourney Medical Hardware 1 Unveiling with David Holz

📅 Jun 20, 2026 Heller House 99 MIN 190 SEGMENTS · 3 SPEAKERS

What David Holz said

Written from the verified transcript and checked against it. Every figure links to the moment it was said.

David Holz, CEO of Midjourney, unveiled the company's first medical hardware product, the Midjourney Scanner, a full-body ultrasonic CT scanner. He described it as the first new whole-body medical imaging modality in 50 years, capable of sub-millimeter resolution, with 8,960 transducers per ring and 358,000 total elements. Holz said the scanner is over 10 times cheaper and 60 times faster than an MRI, making the cost of a scan effectively zero. He announced the Midjourney Spa, a 25,000-square-foot facility near Union Square in San Francisco, with 10 scanners, aiming to open by end of 2027. Holz outlined plans for 50,000 scanners globally, requiring $20 billion in capex, and mentioned FDA discussions, a Gen 2 system by year-end, and custom silicon for Gen 3. He emphasized the company's self-funding, no-investor model.

Key takeaways

  1. Midjourney Scanner is the first full-body ultrasonic CT, with sub-millimeter resolution and 358,000 ultrasonic elements.
  2. The scanner is over 10 times cheaper and 60 times faster than an MRI, making the cost of a scan effectively zero.
  3. Midjourney plans to build 50,000 scanners, requiring $20 billion in upfront capital expenditure.
  4. The first Midjourney Spa will open in San Francisco near Union Square by end of 2027, with 10 scanners.
  5. Gen 2 scanner is expected by end of 2026, and Gen 3 will use custom silicon.

Numbers and commitments

FigureWhat it refers toTypeAt
8,960 transducers in each ring of the scanner metric 46:40
358,000 total ultrasonic elements in the scanner ring metric 47:13
17 gigabytes per second data capture rate of the scanner metric 48:40
50,000 target number of scanners to build commitment 50:27
25,000 square feet size of the Midjourney Spa metric 55:50
10 number of scanners in the first spa metric 55:50
end of 2027 target opening date for the first spa timeline 57:06
$20 billion upfront capital expenditure for 5,000 spas guidance 59:00
9 size of the scanner team metric 1:30:49

Chapters

  1. 0:00Introduction and personal history
  2. 26:55Leap Motion and early AI work
  3. 33:54Founding Midjourney and diffusion models
  4. 45:44Midjourney Scanner unveiling
  5. 46:40Technical details of the scanner
  6. 55:22Midjourney Spa announcement
  7. 1:05:40Business model and cost
  8. 1:09:14FDA and regulatory path
  9. 1:12:34Q&A and future plans

Questions asked in this interview

12
  1. 1:05:22Are you announcing a price for it on a scan or...?
  2. 1:08:34Let's do some more questions. Uh, Alex is—wait, where's Alex?
  3. 1:12:19How do people learn more about where the jobs are?
  4. 1:14:57Is there any interest in scanning people with rare or unique diseases for training purposes?
  5. 1:17:41In your chip and transducer architecture, are you allowing focused abilities?
  6. 1:21:47I got a question over here. David, where—Alex, where are you?
  7. 1:24:42Do you wear a breathing apparatus or just hold your breath?
  8. 1:27:43How do you want these things to fit together?
  9. 1:29:32Is that something that you guys have thought about or explored?
  10. 1:31:45Are you thinking instead of using just static imaging to also have like 4D available?
  11. 1:33:21Have you scanned anything other than humans? Do you have scans?
  12. 1:34:51And how long does it take?
David Holz 21:23 ↗
Are all the live streams on? Are you sure? The X ones, too. Okay. All the streams. Well, it's nice to see you all. Thank you for being here. A lot of people wanted to be here tonight. We didn't have a lot of space. Even the majority of the employees are all watching from the office right now so we could make room for everyone. Yeah. Are we ready or do we wait a minute? What are we doing? What's the hands mean? Are you guys ready?
Now are all the camera and technical people ready? Okay, good. Cool. That's another thumb. All right. Gosh, that means it's time to start.
Scary. Anyway, well, thank you for being here. I'll probably, yeah, we're gonna probably start in a slightly unusual way because we're a slightly unusual company. A lot of people may or may not know that we actually, we have no investors. We're kind of a weird thing. We're kind of a community-supported research lab. We have a lot of people around the world who love using our stuff and there's enough of them that we just have a lot of freedom to build a lot of really great things. And of course we feel an obligation to build a lot of things.
But before we say what we're building, it probably helps to talk a little bit about, you know, maybe a little bit about David, a little bit about where I came from and where a lot of the employees came from. And we'll kind of give a little history, a little backstory. Because otherwise, if you know us for our cat pictures, you're about to be very surprised. But we make really good cat pictures.
Cool. All right. I don't know, I have two laptops. This is a bit cool. So yeah, we're Midjourney. I'm going to start off talking about me, which is weird. But yeah.
Yeah. I grew up in Florida by the beach. My parents worked in medicine. My dad had a dental office on a sailboat. So I grew up a lot around sailboats, a lot on the beach. There's me taking, you know, I was spent a lot of time sort of very in a somewhat solitary way like walking out in the night like this. There was a moonrise, sunrise. I'm just walking and thinking about the world and I'm seeing giant sea turtles come up and laying eggs and big beams of light from the lighthouse sweeping across the horizon. If you ever wonder why we have a sailboat logo now, you know.
And yeah, this is sort of, most of my friends were on the internet. So, you know, this is around the time where I kind of wanted to tell people what I was experiencing. Like if I say I was on the beach, I saw giant sea turtles and red lightning and no one was like, 'What is that?' you know, so I got cameras, I started taking photos, and yeah, I mean, then I started, you know, but then it's me and it's something about being out in the beauty of nature and trying to communicate this thing and then getting into technology to communicate it.
And then obviously I'm doing photos in Photoshop. I'm making space art. I'm really into space. And then because I'm into space and I'm into the universe and sort of how all this works, I'm trying to figure it out. You know, I go into physics. And it seems like the physics people kind of knew something. I was like, a lot of people seem to know things. A lot of people seem to not, but the physics always seem to know something and I want to be a little bit more like them.
And along the way of studying physics, I also studied a lot of math. And at some point I'm like, I might as well get a math degree while I'm at it, too. And I'm like, math is pretty cool. And somewhere along the way there is a sort of weird realization that in math and physics you kind of just want to be able to predict the world and you do that with math but the math is somewhat secondary to the predictions. You know you can say things like there are pi e to the six seconds in a year and I'm going to cancel out the pies in the equation with that which is not true but it's like totally okay if you're a physicist.
And then in math the math people scream when you do that. Like it's not pi e to the six seconds in a year like what are you doing and then a lot of times the physics will be like oh the maths guys will figure this out later clean it up make it nice. And so I felt good doing both but the more I got into it there's a sense that like with physics it was about making predictions even if the numbers were kind of fudgy and things were not totally clean and we don't really know what's real but we can make predictions and then on the math side it was like all that's the only thing we really know are the numbers and the sort of raw structures of axioms and the things that come out of them.
And there was a sense as I was going out into the world that I had to choose between these two things. It was either a choice between math and the sort of pursuit of absolute truth or like physics and the sort of pursuit of absolute reality. And I was like that seems like kind of a messed up choice. Like I just, this seems really hard, like no one told me about this. And so I kind of, you know, I did go to graduate school for a little bit, but I think I realized very quickly that I wasn't going to be able to do these things. I wanted to back away and just try to focus on people.
And so, this is when I started to work on my first company, which was Leap Motion. Some of you, I'm sure, remember this company, some of you don't, but we'll talk about it briefly.
So I'm maybe 22 or 21. I'm starting this company called Leap Motion. So, Leap Motion was about this idea that the limit in technology isn't the size or the cost or the speed, but often just how we interact with it. Doesn't matter how powerful computers are or how smart we are, but what we do kind of comes from the ways that we interact and that the interaction itself might be the biggest limitation in people and technology in the world.
And so, my first company was all around this sort of user interface problem. And so we built this thing called the Leap Motion Controller which was a little device and it tracked your fingers and it was pretty remarkable. We put it out there probably at 22 and we sold about $40 million in pre-orders in the first 48 hours. Which at the time was a pretty shocking thing. We didn't tell anyone, we probably should have said it but it was pretty shocking like that doesn't happen. I don't know if anybody knows, it still doesn't happen. I don't think anyone, that's happened. It wasn't a Kickstarter. We had a website.
And from that point on, things went a little wild in my whole life. Everybody had advice for me. Everybody wanted things to be different ways. But I just kind of had this problem that I wanted to solve and this thing I wanted to explore, which is sort of our connection to technology and how much greater we could be with the two together.
Yeah, over time we made a lot of hardware. So here I'm, you know, I'm working with cameras again just like I was as a kid. There's a lot of weird physics. We're doing weird LEDs and optics and it's kind of coming from what I know. But it's sort of focused on people. They made, there was a lot of work making it smaller. There are these little cameras made even smaller over time. We had like hand tracking running on like 30 mils off the DSP. And it was pretty cool.
I think one thing, something maybe more people now know of is we went into virtual reality because this all happened before Windows supported touchscreens. So this is a really long time ago and we were really, they say the future's not evenly distributed and I hope you'll see that a little bit right now. But we did a lot of VR and VR was just really cool. We kind of defined the concept of hand tracking in VR. For better or worse it's probably still better than any hand tracking you can get today. And yeah, it was just really cool.
And something that people didn't know, I mean, so I think people knew it was cool. It's still probably one of the coolest technology demos. But something that people didn't know was actually how it worked. It's been almost 10 years, so I can talk a little bit about that now. All the patents are published. All the stuff is out. So what was this?
So this system was actually, in modern terms for those of you who know AI, a 600 million parameter mixture of experts with a 5% sparsity. Which is wild for 2015. Absolutely out of its time. It was trained across a CPU cluster not a GPU cluster because we didn't do GPUs back then. It was all hand-rolled. TensorFlow didn't exist yet. And yeah, again, the future is not evenly distributed, but it did a lot of really cool stuff.
So, in fact, not only were we doing hardware and cameras and sensors and interfaces, we were doing a lot of really weird AI stuff. And I wish we, you know, we didn't really talk about it a lot because we were kind of honestly a little scared that someone might catch on to the whole neural network thing. But eventually it happened. And then, this is, we just made an AR headset too. We did open source AR headset. It was called Northstar. Thousands of people around the world in Japan made their own headsets. It was also really really cool.
So we're building all, and so you know, let's see, here's more crazy things. All the CPU, this is our infrastructure training the model, the neural network models with the data pipelines moving across all the servers. This is still a pretty weird image in 2026. Like I don't think any AI companies have weird flow graphs of their data pipelines like this still. This is still pretty weird.
But anyway, coming out of all this, I learned a lot and, man, there's a lot of things I could talk about, but, you know, little things from, for example, like, when you start a startup out here, there's a certain way of doing things and the general desire and the pressure and the structure, which isn't to say it's bad for all people. I would say it's generally pretty good for all people, but it involves this concept of having a plan that has a 10% chance of working with a 100x returns if it does.
And I think as a kid it's really cool, unless you take a huge swing you can do all this kind of, you have all this opportunity to do stuff. But for me as I kind of went through this process over years and years, this is over 10 years, I realized there was, didn't quite feel right for me because I didn't really want a company I just wanted a home. And I didn't really want to like make 100x returns. I wanted to solve problems that I cared about. That they were like big missions in the world and I wanted to like compound things over time and just see what I could do.
So after Leap Motion when I went to start Midjourney I wanted to do a lot of things differently. And the first thing I wanted to try to do was, well maybe I can do this thing without investors which was scary. I only had like 200K in my bank account at the time. I did not come out of Leap Motion particularly well. But I had a particular mentor, Bill Warner, who said, you know, David, you could do that. And I was like, Bill had this thing where he was one of my mentors and everything he ever told me ended up being true. And I usually didn't listen to him. And so this time I'm like, oh no, he's probably right. So I'm going to give it a shot.
And so, that was one thing that was different. Another thing that was different was although I still really am passionate about people and technology and the way they work together and I hope we see that a little bit in Midjourney today. There was another thing that kind of came out which was that I realized even if I gave everybody VR headsets and AR glasses and crazy hand tracking they weren't necessarily going to still think or be able to do a lot of the things I did or the ways that I do things would still somehow be inaccessible and something felt wrong there.
I felt like that there was, it was almost as if the very powers of imagination themselves needed to be stronger. There needed to be some infrastructure to be something that we had that was more than what we had to be able to make things and imagine what we wanted or what could be and something that would encourage us to believe that we could do those things.
So yeah, that was sort of the theme that I wanted to think about when I was starting Midjourney. So there's a lot of things we were playing with. And one of them that I was kind of, find is the year now, the year 2021. Is the year 2021. And one of the things that I was looking at was this new thing called diffusion models.
And so diffusion models were this sort of interesting thing. They were like a new kind of machine learning thing, but it wasn't like the normal input output. It was more like this idea that you could kind of hallucinate things out of noise and that the shapes or the sounds or the motions or just anything just sort of like condense out of the noise like water vapor into shapes of clouds and it was really beautiful.
I didn't really, so like it pulled me in and I started playing around with things. I'm just by myself in my apartment. And you know, one day I asked, I was playing around with some code and I asked it for a, what was it? An arcane lighthouse. You saw lighthouses. I grew up with lighthouses. And I got this picture. This was the original picture. And I looked at this and I was like, 'Oh, okay. This is interesting.' We got like a floating lighthouse with a lightning beam, you know, like light, and like auroras. A little, like maybe golden, like a little, it's a green sailboat.
Like this was more than I asked for and I was like okay actually for this brief moment even if it was just a mistake this thing was actually more imaginative than me and my original goal was like hey I just want people to be more like, they want people to do the things that I do and I'm like actually wait no wait wait wait like this could be better than me or maybe with me and this like we could be just even better like I don't know what this is this is like day one and I'm like okay okay this is pretty cool.
And then I mean this would happen all the time. There's another one where I asked for a picture of like a father and we got this like suit with like a child as a tie and I didn't ask for that. That's not in the data. Like there's now, if you really look into why, how these things work it kind of makes sense that you could get a picture like that. But again like very creative, very interesting, very unexpected. There was just something, there was some juice here.
Everything I made whether trying to ask for things that I hadn't seen before I was like this is really cool. Even like the sort of watching the noise sort of come on, come on again. Even just like watching the noise of the thing sort of bubble and churn and the images form, you could feel like the thing kind of like some kind of breathing aliveness of the thing. And it just felt really sort of profound and interesting. And I was like, 'All right, there's some magic here, and I want to get it to more people.'
And it's sort of, and maybe it can do some of the things that I care about doing. And so the big problem from here was it's now the year 2021 and I calculate out, you know, how many, like this is before ChatGPT is launched. This is really early in the field. And just trying to figure out okay like it takes like X minutes to make Y models and if you have this many people making this many images like what do you need? And it turned out to be like I need like 10,000 GPUs.
And so I called, luckily, you know, because I did this cool company called Leap Motion, I could call up friends at Google and be like, hey, it's David. Like, I'm doing a thing. Like, oh, David, he's doing a thing. Like, it's like a new thing. It's gonna be like cool, like the old thing, but like this time instead of needing cameras, I just need like computers. Like, we got computers. Like, no, but I need like a lot of computers, guys. Like, oh, I need like 10,000 computers on day one to launch, which is like at the time, this is again, this is before all the GPT stuff. This is like that's like a crazy ask and I'm like don't worry like I'm good for it like I'm going to find a way to pay for it but like I just need like, you just need to like give me 10,000 servers. And there was sort of this moment and they go, okay.
And I mean there's some questions like, you know, how does David bootstrap an AI lab, you know, part of it does come from when you're out here for a long time there's a certain degree of trust you can get and it's really wonderful that I could just ask for that and I had no investors and they gave me, you know, it's pretty cool.
And so yeah, so with those 10,000 computers, we built a little product and we launched it and it was the very first time that people could use diffusion models, any kind of image model at scale. You could run on your computer before that, but there was like maybe one or two places where like 100 people were using it, but this is the point where like, okay, millions of people can use it. There's like no limit. If you put your credit card in, we will buy servers and we will make this work.
And there was a certain, because we had no investors, there's a certain weirdness to this where it's like, you know, somebody has to pay for the computers and I've got like a couple hundred thousand in my bank account. So like, you know, I'm only going to last so long. So, you know, we immediately, we kind of had to build this thing as like a business from day one. Which is cool because it means like hopefully we're providing value to somebody. That's why they're paying us money. But it was kind of a weird thing.
And I didn't really care about money that much this time. Like I still, but the way I thought about it was like, well, something has to pay for the servers. And then in an ideal world, this, I would have some kind of business where like I could have enough money to do one Leap Motion worth of R&D on the side because like Leap Motion was this crazy thing I did for 10 years. Didn't cost that much. Was like 10 million a year, you know, roughly was what it cost to do all that. And I was like, well, that seems doable. Like it's a lot, but like I could probably swing it.
And then if I just had that protected thing with crazy R&D for just years and years and compounding and I could just do crazy things. I knew I could do crazy things because I had done it before. And the only difference was before I had to also do the 100x, like do it through, do a certain type of dance which again is neither good nor bad but in this case didn't always let me sort of just build the things I wanted to build or solve the problems I wanted to solve.
And so yeah, we launched this thing and it did good. So over the first nine months or so, we got about 20 million people coming in. This is 2021, 2022ish. So I mean the way I thought about it was I was like, okay, ideally we get like 10 million on the side for R&D budgets. But you know, I could mess this up. So I should probably have like a plan where it's better than that. And so I kind of designed the thing being like, you know, maybe if we get lucky, we'll do like a hundred million or something. That way if I really mess up, I'll still do 10. You know, that's the really thing I only care about.
But it unfortunately we didn't mess it up. And it kind of kept going and it kept going to the point where it was like 100 million in nine months and then 200 million in 12 months and it kept going even till today. And it was at the point where I'm like, oh, okay. We're going to do more than one Leap Motion's worth of R&D now. And in fact, I'm going to do the thing that nobody ever is allowed to do, which is more than one thing.
And it is hard. It's hard. It's actually really hard to do that. So we started kicking up a bunch of teams, hiring a bunch of people probably around 2023, 24, right after around this. And we've been working on a lot of projects. Eight projects. And four of them are hardware projects and four of them are software projects. Two of them are hardware projects that I hope you will be able to buy relatively soon and hold them in your hands and the other two are something else. I would say they're more like these sort of giant awesome machines. And I'm going to show you one of those today.
Yeah. But what about today? Like what are we? We're now like we've gone from like 2011 to like 2026. Like what do we even know about 2026? Like what can we even say about the future anymore? Like what do we even build anymore, right? And I think there's one thing we know more than anything, which is that just everything's going to change. So the big question, maybe the only question is like how do we want things to change and like what do we want to build and eventually like what do we want to become? It's an even bigger question. Yeah. So I think that's like the most important thing to all be asking ourselves at a time like this. And today is us giving you one answer to that question.
Yeah. So I think we might be ready for the first video.
There's more than one video.
What was that thing? So we are going to show off the first new whole body medical imaging modality in 50 years. We're calling it the full body ultrasonic CT or just the full body ultrasound. We kind of dreamed of something as powerful as an MRI and as casual as a trip to the spa. And so that's what we're going to kind of show you today.
And I'm sure you're kind of wondering how's that even work and why hasn't anyone done this before? And so I think in order to answer that, we're going to have to do another video, which is a bit of a technical deep dive. And that is the next guy. So, we're going to start with something called the transducer.
When you put energy into it, it vibrates like a speaker. And when it hears a sound, it makes energy like a microphone. These transducers thus act as both speakers and microphones. We have 8,960 transducers arranged in a grid. Each transducer is 200 microns wide, like a fine grain of sand. They vibrate over 50 nanometers, 10 times smaller than the wavelength of visible light.
Imagine a choir of 8,000 singers and an audience of 8,000 people, all listening carefully. The transducers are controllable at a rate of 100 million times per second. Together, they fire in patterns that send out structured waves. The waves travel across the water at over 1,481 meters per second. We construct a ring of 40 of these systems, 70 cm in diameter. The ring contains 358,000 ultrasonic elements.
The chips take turns sending out waves. As the waves have a chance to dissipate, we fire the next one. One by one, they fire at a rate of over 1,000 times per second.
The waves travel across the tank in 480 microseconds, about 1/12,000th of a second. Hundreds of thousands of transducers listen. Each sensor resolves motion smaller than the width of an atom. Not micrometers or nanometers, but pometers. Working together, hundreds of sensors can even push into the subatomic femtometer range, finer than the scale of atoms. A scale I don't even have anything you've heard of. I'm sorry, guys.
The system captures data at a rate of a leisurely 17 gigabytes per second. Gigabytes of sonic reverberations flow around your body and from the vibrations we will form images. Each probe sees different angles of your body. We combine thousands of waves and thousands of sub-images. Over 40 gigabytes of data moves through the system to see just one slice of your body.
We analyze these images. You can see them little shadows of the organs and everything to make out organs, structures, and tissues. Here we'll show you a slice of 25 different biological structures. This is a real image.
We do this again and again as you move through the ring. The lift will lower you at a gentle rate of 4 cm a second with a precision of 0.1 millimeters. Over a period of 60 seconds, our goal is to get several hundred slices of your body, reconstructing across 21 servers with two petaflops of compute power and 806 terabytes of raw data.
The slices form a 3D map with the ability to resolve internal tissue details as small as half a millimeter. Less than a dozen of these machines operating together at full speed can do more full body scans than every MRI machine together on Earth.
Our goal is to build a fleet of 50,000 of these scanners capable together of doing a billion scans a month. Enough to bring full body imaging to everyone on Earth. This is a new kind of infrastructure. It's full body ultrasonic computational tomography. No such device has ever been built until now. And yeah, we're calling it the Midjourney Scanner.
Yeah. So, they're kind of hard to make. But you can make them actually. Like we're in the year 2026. We have access to pretty spectacular technology and I know it'd be normal to just be like, you know, we're making a scanner, but actually the details are what makes something like this. And I think it's very easy to talk about the world in terms of vague problems but the world is made up of actually lots of really interesting details and the details are what you can solve them with.
Like all the little things like 1,400 meters a second, the speed of sound through water. You know, I don't have to say that but if it was the same as the speed of sound through air it wouldn't work. The fact that sound goes through water, the reason why it goes so fast through water is the reason why you can build something like this and there's many other details like that and all the details are all just there. And there's more of them, yeah.
And so yeah, that was cool. Can we go back to the slides? All right, one of the projects. What are the others? Not going to find out today. I'm sorry.
So yeah, I'll show you some quick images. So here, these are real slices. Lots of little things. We got radiologists helping us label them. It's kind of new looking, so it does look pretty different than anything you've seen before, but you can definitely see all the stuff. This is day one of a totally new medical imaging paradigm. We're not even using any AI yet. It's just really cool hardware and software and a lot of great people working to make something that we haven't built before. But obviously, these systems can be much more sophisticated over time.
This is not really the product. This is actually just the first prototype. No one's built one before and we just did. So what else we got? Yeah, here's another one. If you, I thought the slice thing was cool. Here's one more slice thing. Ain't that cool? Ah, so cool. Little feet and everything.
So you know, again, it's the first day of MRI. That's what it looked like. And the first day of full body USCT, ultrasonic computational tomography. It looks like this. And obviously MRIs look better than this today. And the ultrasound will look really incredible over the next few years.
Here's an example. Even right now. So, you know, I'm going to say this is both a fair and an unfair example. So, this is an example of your thighs with a normal full body MRI and this is the same sort of thighs with the ultrasonic CT. And you can see already there are certain ways where you can see the different boundaries between the muscles and some of the fibers and the veins that are actually already better than an MRI. We're not better in every way yet, but at day one, which is this is day one, to be better in a lot of really interesting ways is already really exciting.
It means that at the bottom, things are already easy. Sometimes when you try something new, it's good just to push and see what gives. And in this case, we're pushing and the universe is giving.
Yeah, there's little segmentations, seeing the organs. The scan we showed earlier, this is an ultrasonic phantom. So it's like meant to mimic a body as closely as possible. It's like made of gel and fake organs and everything, but you can see all the way through you get all the bones and it gets really great imagery. And it's only going to get better from here.
So now you're wondering, what does it look like to get this out into the world? We say we're going to make 50,000 scanners, but it's not going in here. It's not going at my office like that's something else has to give. So when I think about how I would personally like this to be in the future is I don't want to feel like I'm going to a doctor's office. I want to feel like I'm going somewhere that's nice. And ideally the place is so nice that even if it had no Midjourney scanner, I would still go. That's a bar for what does it mean to be nice, right? It shouldn't be nice just because there's a scanner. It should be nice.
So what does that look like? Well, you're gonna have to get wet. So, you know, that's a thing. That's one of the trade-offs we've made here. But there are lots of nice situations to get wet. No, that sounds weird. Sorry. That was not part of the speech. But what if we made something really cool? And so that's the second thing that we're going to announce, which we're calling the Midjourney Spa.
So, the Midjourney Spa, the first, we've signed a lease and we already have the designs. It will be 25,000 square feet. About, well, I'll tell you where it is in a second. It's 5,000 square feet. It's four floors. There'll be hot tubs, saunas, cold plunges, weird, more things that I don't know that are very European but great. And a little gym even too. And nine or 10 full scanners.
It's going to look, come on, it's going to look really cool. It's going to look better than any spa I've ever seen in San Francisco. Maybe in America. It's going to be really nice. It's going to be really, really nice. It's going to be so nice. Again, you would go even if there were no scanners. It's going to be around Union Square about a four-minute walk from the Apple store. Hopefully I'm allowed to say that, but that's a landmark, right? So pretty easy to get to and we're going to try to make it as 24/7 as possible because like it's mostly just machines that run without people, but you know, maybe there'll be some downtime.
And yeah, that's, I don't have another really long well-produced video for this. I didn't have time. The first two videos I made, no one, you're not supposed to know this, but this is made by our architects who made like the Blue Lagoon. So like real big spas before and they're all really excited and they're really good. I think some of them are probably here. And it's a serious project where all the things are going and I guess I didn't say we hope it will be open by the end of 2027. That's our goal.
And so, you know, maybe a little more about our goals. You know, I do like a good hot tub, but one of the purposes of this project is to gain experience in running a lot of these machines and running a lot of people through these machines. And we're also trying to understand like, if we're going to have some kind of product, which is a place that you go to get scanned, what does that product ideally look like? Is it a large spa with 10 scanners and a hot tub and a cold plunge and all sorts of, like a matcha bar maybe, or is it turned out that people actually just want a gym and they want to get a scan and get out? We don't really have any way of knowing.
So, what we're doing is we're kind of building a maximally super spa. Super spa sounds cool. And we're gonna see what people use and what they like. And then the goal is, I mean, I think this thing will probably make some money. And then we'll have a template of like this is what people use. This is the sort of return on investment time. And then through some combination of our money and probably some other people's money, we're going to just build a bunch of these places around the world.
Again, the goal is 50,000 scanners. This is 10. So that means if this is what the spa looks like, we need 5,000 of these which is doable. Maybe some of them will be bigger like 50 scanners, some of them will be smaller like two. We got to learn about those models and try to figure that out. Midjourney itself is large enough to self-fund all of this. We don't have to ask anyone money to build a spa. But at some point if we want to build 5,000, you know, this is a big project. It's like $20 billion in upfront capital expenditure. But if these things might just pay themselves off in six months. In which case, like, hey, we can build a lot of these. Even if it takes more than six months, six months would be absurd. Looks like it'll be six months, but I don't know.
A lot of things look good, but so far a lot of things have been good. So, you know, all I know is I'm excited for this place. And yeah, what else we got? I think, oh yeah, let's see what else, so a little, what does this look like? So you're going to the spa, you might go to be doing the gym and you get these scans and you just have this just very regular health data about your body. The sort of sub-millimeter scans of everything. You know, every day, this thing is, it's not, there's no radiation, there's no X-rays, there's no crazy magnets. Like you could get a scan like a hundred times a day. It may be kind of weird to do that, but like there's no limit. It's as often as you want to go.
And so the idea of like there's a whole spectrum here of things you can do. You could get a scan just once a year. I mean, you're supposed to get an MRI scan once a year if you have a lot of money. I thought I would finally do it, but it sucks. Like you're going into a tube for 60 minutes, like gunshot sounds going off. It's not, I could afford to get more, but like it just sucks. Like my body doesn't even want to go. And so like, but even just like a once a year MRI is a huge thing to have in your life. Let alone if you're feeling an upset, you know, these are not all things you're going to be doing day one but like if you're feeling an upset stomach like you can literally see the food digesting through your body, like it's kind of crazy.
Like you can just like anything that's changing over any time period you can kind of get an awareness of from a scientific standpoint. So whether that's, you know, people, there's another question we don't know is that people can just go as much as they want to go. Are they getting a scan once a day, once a week, once a month, once a year? What's that distribution look like? All these things are really important to understand if we want to build a huge piece of infrastructure around this technology.
Yeah, obviously from day one we will be, we will probably be a little conservative. You know, we have this thing called the FDA and we'll be doing some things are really easy like body composition, really easy. Some things like we can't do surgery with, like there's obviously other things that are like really crazy that we're not allowed to do. But, you know, one of the goals is to do all the things that are easy, get a lot of data, and as we get data, show out all these other things we've been doing, and then sort of layer on approval after approval, functionality after functionality until this thing can do, you know, thousands of types of diagnoses or, you know, and eventually actually treatments.
There's some weird things you can do with ultrasound, whether it's like tendon and muscle healing, and I don't want to go into that because it's not day one, but over a 10-year period, these things are not just imaging devices. They're probably therapeutic devices as well. And there's a lot of really cool things you can do. This thing has way more ultrasound than it needs to just like, I mean you kind of want to have as much ultrasound as possible to just see the stuff fast but because of that it has a lot of ultrasound that can use to do other things as that becomes normal.
I mean there are a lot of things already that people use ultrasound to look at. I'm sure you all can probably think of a few and there are actually things we use ultrasound to treat too. So to some extent this system can do anything that any ultrasound system has ever been able to do and more. It's sort of like super over-specced, but I think it's just right.
And this is the, so this was the, this is the first generation scanner. One of the things we want to do is be able to start talking about that today and what we're working on and so the team, you know, can tell their families what they're doing, so we can hire more people on the team. And so, and we want to be able to give people updates. So, this is the first generation scanner. It's more of a prototype, if you will, more than it is like a push button every day, run it a thousand times a day kind of industrial system.
The next version we're building will be this Gen 2 system. Hopefully by the end of the year, hope to do another presentation for it and it'll be, I'm trying not to spoil it, but like significantly more advanced. Like this is the first one they got to make. And honestly, it was already a big jump.
Like the temptation was, 'Let's make a little one first, David.' And I remember looking out a window and I was like, 'No, build the big one.' And it felt so good to have the freedom to just do that. We went straight to building a big one from nothing. Literally not even a small one. Just went straight to this. And so we learned a lot in the process. And the team can't wait to tear the whole thing to pieces and build a better one.
But I wanted to be able to show people what we built before we tear the whole thing apart and start that process. But the second generation one will be really cool, too. And then beyond that, we've also commissioned the new chips even. So the third generation one will actually have custom silicon that's built for this application. None of the components here are built for this. This is like the MacGyver version of this, you know, and it's already really cool. So, when you start making custom chips and you start doing everything from scratch and you throw all the layers of all the AI, all the physics simulations and all the huge servers on top of it, this thing is going to be really cool.
I guess I'm just gonna—oh, they're not on my thing anymore. But, I was going to say I guess we might be ready to take it to a Q&A.
Audience Member 1:05:22 ↗
Thank you so much. My best friend Brandon WS died at the age of 40 from colon cancer that went undiagnosed because he was so young. This should catch that kind of thing. Are you announcing a price for it on a scan or...?
Moderator 1:05:38 ↗
Yeah. So when can we sign up?
David Holz 1:05:40 ↗
You know, the interesting thing about this is that from a physics standpoint, these machines are more than 10 times cheaper than an MRI machine and they're also more than 60 times faster than an MRI machine. So the cost is the cost to produce divided by the time to advertise it—this thing should be hundreds of times, a thousand times cheaper than an MRI. It's so cheap that the cost of the scan is effectively zero. So the question at that point is more like, okay, we have to build a facility and then we want it to have only so many people going through so many times a day, and then we want the facility to pay itself off so that we can fund more facilities as quickly as possible.
And so the thing that I can say is the cost of the scan is probably effectively zero. But the business model that we build around this, which we want to really shape carefully so that it becomes a thing that you can kind of financialize like 20 billion dollars behind and just scale out 5,000—because once the thing has sort of been financially refined from a raw infrastructure point, we could just build 5,000 of these places all at once and everyone could have them. So we're kind of on a straight shot of figuring out what the product is, what's the business model. Probably if I had to guess for you right now, there'll be spa memberships, there'll be a walk-in version where if you don't have a membership you can just walk in. There's probably a price you would pay if you only want to get a scan and you don't want to go to the hot tub. There's probably a price you pay if you only want the hot tubs and you don't want to get scans. There's some pricing matrix. But I hope it's extremely reasonable. And our goal is to get as low as we can get while still being able to not go beyond the occupancy limits of the building, which is a real thing. It's 24,000 feet, it's a solid spa, but we can't have like 10,000 people. There will be some pricing and some limit where we'd say this thing isn't working anymore. So we have to figure that out, but conceptually there almost is no price which is kind of cool.
To be fair, an MRI machine in some ways is also partially just the cost of the radiologist. So this is a real thing too—as AI gets better, how much can we trust to just take a first pass. From a scientific standpoint, first, it can't tell you if there's something subtle. But we all know people who died suddenly where something was really wrong and they just didn't go to somebody until really late in the process. So, the hope is to try to fix that. So yeah, I know I'm kind of long answer, but...
Moderator 1:08:34 ↗
Yeah, we got some more questions. Let's do some more questions. Uh, Alex is—wait, where's Alex? Alec, she's in charge of the mic. Wave at her.
Audience Member 1:08:42 ↗
Thanks, Alex. I'm actually a simple country doctor and I love this idea of being able to do it in a spa setting. You've talked about affordability. You've talked about the accuracy that you're going to achieve. What is it looking like in terms of accessibility for physicians at enterprise scale? Where are you with regards to the FDA approvals? In this setting, I don't even think you need FDA approvals at all, but at what point are you going to start thinking about where are you in terms of CPT codes to actually be able to bill insurance so that I can use this for my patients?
David Holz 1:09:14 ↗
So, I hope long-term that insurance just covers these things because, you know, I think that if we could do preventative medicine better, maybe 50% of healthcare costs could just go away because we're catching things early instead of late. And so to me as a—I don't have an insurance company, but it seems like a no-brainer.
We have started—forgive me, there are certain incantations and keywords with the FDA which I may not say the correct order of, which is scary. But we have started discussions with the FDA. The body comp stuff is already on a really good path. I think in general we probably will never be able to go as fast as we'd like to go because it is medicine. But when you talk about what's a place to make an investment right now in AI where no matter what, 10 years from now it's still going to be really important—as AI gets better and better and we're using it for more and more medicine, the limit is going to be this, and go get some data real fast. And so to me, it just feels like a really important pillar of the health system.
I will try not to say the really careful, magical FDA keywords. But there is a guy here in a skeleton costume whose Tom will be head of health, or any fancy title he really needs. And he knows all the magical incantations. So, I'm going to not make myself look stupid and definitely seek him out. But we are doing a bunch of things. We have a lot of FDA people involved already to the extent that we can. And then obviously being public is also a really cool part of the process. So now we can actually talk about what we're doing.
Normally in a startup you spend all this time pitching and presenting yourself and we haven't done that. This is literally—we didn't have slides. We didn't have any pictures. We're just making stuff. And so the last two weeks was just me getting a camera and filming somebody getting dunked and then me spending a lot of time with WebGL making a cool visualization because we literally didn't have anything to even show people what we were working on. And so this is just a big part of us having all the material. Everyone knows it's out in the open. We can talk about things now.
I want to be able to do things like just take more images and show people images all the time. In theory, we can image people and just start showing cool images—here's this issue and this issue and we can see them in these ways. And we want to engage lots of doctors and really engage everybody we can because there's very likely a lot of applications we don't even really know about. Like I was talking to one really great guy in medicine and the first thing he said was, 'Hey, if I have to put a kid in an MRI machine I have to sedate them. You can't MRI a kid.' And this seems really easy. There's a lot of things I wouldn't have thought of. And so we want to be able to start engaging you, which is one reason why I invited a lot of you here. So we want to hear your thoughts and we want to get you all involved as much as possible.
Audience Member 1:12:14 ↗
David, you forgot to mention we're hiring.
David Holz 1:12:16 ↗
We are hiring.
Audience Member 1:12:19 ↗
And we're also working with... How do people learn more about where the jobs are?
David Holz 1:12:21 ↗
Oh, there is a midjourney.com/medical. I don't know if it's online, but it will be online and it will have a jobs page. It's up. Oh, it's up.
Audience Member 1:12:34 ↗
Hi, David. This vision is so complete. You're planning three generations out. I'm just very curious about your process. Do you start from—you met the butterfly guys and then you were like, what can we do with this? Or did you go, we have to solve scanning and then you work backwards to whatever you got to?
David Holz 1:12:52 ↗
So I'm kind of—I don't know if this is weird or not. I'm going to say I feel like a weird guy where I just like think about things that bother me for a really long time. So this has been bothering me for 10 years and I didn't know the right way to solve it at first. I was like, maybe I should make an MRI machine, like a new one, and maybe I should buy an MRI company. And I was learning about all the things and to be honest, there's only so many ways to do it. You've got light, you've got sound, you've got magnets. X-rays are a form of light. And very quickly I realized the MRIs can probably not be both fast and good. It's sort of one or the other. And then because you can't push enough energy through it easily, but with ultrasound, you can push more energy through. And so as I thought about it over years, this is the only way to do it.
It kind of stopped me for a bit because it's a bit expensive to get going, but as Midjourney is big enough, we could do this. And there were times where I pitched tech companies. I was like, 'Hey, I can't do this, but you big tech company, you should do this.' And they would be like, 'Sir, we make smartphones.' And you know what I get to say now is, 'Sir, I make cat pictures.' And there isn't really an excuse. You can just make things.
Moderator 1:14:11 ↗
David, we have a lot of questions from the hive mind.
David Holz 1:14:14 ↗
Oh, we have—oh, and then...
Moderator 1:14:16 ↗
So we're live streaming right now. Caleb is manning the computer if you want to take some hive mind questions.
David Holz 1:14:21 ↗
Yes. Before that, there's people over there making sounds. People are—I'll probably ask everyone to be a little quiet over to the side, but then there's people probably—there's—well, we have demos. You can't get your butt scanned today, but you can get your hands scanned today. And so there's a lot of little cool demos over there and some people are moseying around already. And when we get done with the Q&A we'll let everyone check things out. But yeah, that's why there's people over there. Okay. So we have this thing called the hive mind where we let the community ask us questions and I have no idea how many people have—how many questions there are, but what's a question from the hive mind?
Moderator 1:14:57 ↗
All right, there's a lot of interest in getting scanned and somebody says: Will access to scanning be available before 2027? Is there any interest in scanning people with rare or unique diseases for training purposes?
David Holz 1:15:10 ↗
So I don't know the exact FDA keywords to say on this but broadly speaking we'll be doing research trials where we are scanning people for a variety of things to try to understand the nature of the device. And so we are scanning people already. We do want to scan a lot more people. I think in general, if you sign up for the sort of email list, we'll send out an email blast for things we're allowed to ask you for. But in general, we're going to scan a lot of people before the spa opens, but it won't be like a push button every day, do it without anyone asking. The goal is you should be able to go get a scan, no one's even there, it's all automated. But day one, it's not going to be like that for the next year. We're really sort of learning to use this device. So you'd be there like with the scientists watching you behind some nice glass or something.
Moderator 1:16:04 ↗
Dylan has a question up here.
Audience Member 1:16:05 ↗
Oh, hi. Hey. That was awesome, thank you. I guess two-parter. Part one: public hot tubs. Can it get gross? Will you scan the hot tubs? Part two, will this ever upload us to the matrix? Pause.
David Holz 1:16:21 ↗
So it's sub-millimeter now and sub-millimeter is like roughly the wavelength of the ultrasound. And then beyond that you have to look at the sort of diffractive effects. If the grain—if you can't see really things way smaller than the wave, but if there's these sort of granularities in the tissue and it's pointing in different ways, you can back out microstructure which is smaller than the wave. It's hard to do but the information there is subwavelength diffractive information. But it probably doesn't go down to the cellular level needed to do like a mind upload in this case. So we are not offering that product at this time.
Audience Member 1:16:59 ↗
The hot tubs?
David Holz 1:17:00 ↗
You know, we have thought about a version of this product that's more built into the hot tub directly. But the way that we've gone about this is this particular design where you kind of go up and go down—it's optimized for throughput. Because if you have to like lay in a tub and then get out of the tub, I'm like adding a whole other process. You can do that, but other people—just go down and up and you're on an elevator, it's done. You don't have to worry about anything. So the idea—up and down, out, up and down, out—it's very throughput optimized. So for now, that's the main focus.
Moderator 1:17:28 ↗
I got to let Brian talk. Okay.
David Holz 1:17:31 ↗
Great.
Moderator 1:17:33 ↗
We got a question from the hive mind.
David Holz 1:17:35 ↗
Oh, no. Well, okay. One, real quick—oh, no. I'm letting Brian go. I'm letting Brian go.
Audience Member 1:17:41 ↗
In your chip and transducer architecture, are you allowing focused abilities?
David Holz 1:17:46 ↗
Yeah. And other modulation effects in the body. So right now these chips are sending out what we call—that's saying, can we focus the ultrasound? Basically asking, can we focus the ultrasound down? And so right now we send out what we call a planar wave, which is very safe, there's no problems with that. Obviously with ultrasound you can sort of focus things and people are doing incisionless surgery right now. There's some—people in Israel are doing like brain surgery without opening up the skull where they beam the ultrasound in and they can actually destroy cancer at a distance.
This machine, this technology is broadly capable of doing that but those are certainly things where it's a much higher FDA level. The highest bar for safety would be destroying cancer tissue—just straight out. Technically these systems have that ability but we would never touch that for a very long time. I think there are things that are lower risk. You can make tendons and muscles heal faster and there's a lot of other things that are just much less ultrasound risk where there isn't really a lot of risk. We might kind of go up that ascending ladder and see where we stop. I don't know if we'll ever try to do the destroying cancer from a distance kind of thing. There are a lot of ways of doing that. Sometimes they inject things into you and then that lets you target the ultrasound. That makes it much safer.
We're not really thinking about that right now to be honest, but I would say we are thinking about this long-term ability of the system to do both imaging and therapeutics as well. And I think we would like it to be able to do both. But then, you know, it's not totally up to us. It's going to be—there's a very regulated process. And to be honest, I think the imaging is the lowest hanging fruit because, yeah, it's the lowest hanging fruit.
Moderator 1:19:51 ↗
Question from the hive mind here. There's a question asking who analyzes the data. Do you take it to a doctor or is it something that the scanner will analyze for you?
David Holz 1:20:01 ↗
So, this is going to be sort of pending as the FDA stuff changes. I think day one we're trying to do the sort of body composition stuff where we can talk about all the different types of tissues and how that's changing to a certain level of granularity. I don't know—there's a step past that where we're allowed to share it with your doctors and they're allowed to look at it for things. I don't know when that gate passes but these are all things that naturally progress in a sequence of events.
To be honest, in an ideal world, over the next five years we don't totally know what medicine is going to look like and what regulation is going to look like. And so in an ideal world, it's possible this should be like a new class of FDA device where it's not really meant to look at one thing, but it's meant to look at anything weird because in theory we could just say, 'Hey, your toe is weird. You should get that checked.' We could definitely say that. We're not allowed to just do that off the bat, but maybe we should be able to do that. And so there would be all these FDA questions, regulatory questions that are really interesting. I think in an ideal world, this is not like a normal device. This is a device that—there's going to be more things like this in the future where we're just trying to get as much data as we can about your body and we just want to be able to flag doctors if something looks weird. And so that's not a casual thing to do right now because there's a lot of things that could be bad about doing that. But I think this is something that as AI gets better every day that I hope we can get really comfortable with.
So, some of these things I won't be able to put timelines behind, but making 50,000 scanners—this is going to take many years anyway. So, my hope is as we're sort of building these scanners and figuring out these spas, we sort of intercept the rest of the rise of AI and the rest of the change in regulation, everything hits in a really beautiful place and then we got everything we need. And luckily, we can take the risk.
Moderator 1:21:47 ↗
Great. I got a question over here. David, where—Alex, where are you?
Audience Member 1:21:52 ↗
Hi. Just want to let everyone know some drinks are going to get passed around as well. And there's a bar in the back corner if you're thirsty. Appreciate it.
David Holz 1:21:59 ↗
And there's a jazz club downstairs. This is a place called the Vita Brevis Club. It is a super cool space and I'm very grateful for them hosting us. It's one of these sort of unique and beautiful spaces most people don't know about in the city. So hopefully you guys get to learn more about it.
Moderator 1:22:14 ↗
Great. We got a question over here.
Audience Member 1:22:17 ↗
Hey Dave. Great to see you're still building hardware. First time we met you came down to Certino and you had the Leap Motion on breadboards and MATLAB. I still remember today.
David Holz 1:22:26 ↗
Don't tell anyone the first Leap Motion demos were in MATLAB.
Audience Member 1:22:29 ↗
Yeah, I know. Sorry about that.
David Holz 1:22:31 ↗
Oh no, they all know now. They ran at 60 frames a second in MATLAB, I will have you know.
Audience Member 1:22:39 ↗
Yeah, that was tough. Quick two questions. So the MRI, I think, is based on the resonance of the H2 bond, and the ultrasound has different physics. Do you have a sense about—they see something different, right? I'm sure you look at what kind of tissue properties there are. And then the second one, just anecdotally, how hard was it to do the alignment between all—because you're moving a little bit, right?
David Holz 1:23:03 ↗
Yeah. So the main thing that I would say is it's looking at the speed of sound. When the wave moves through a change in the speed of sound, it diffracts. And then basically, the way you sort of look at how all the waves move and distort around the body, that's basically mostly due to density changes in the medium. And so one of the first things we get is sort of a speed of sound map, which is sort of a density map. But it's also—the jiggliness, I forgot what the word is, of the thing also has some effect, like the resonance of the tissue. And then the microstructure of the tissue will also diffract sort of subwavelength things too. So the most important thing is the speed of sound, but then beneath the speed of sound there are many factors that cause smaller and smaller things. So today we're doing a very simple speed-of-sound kind of thing, but over time, with some combination of physics simulations and neural nets, we hope to back out more and more of those extra components and get things that are much more detailed still.
Audience Member 1:24:09 ↗
And the second one was the—registration.
David Holz 1:24:12 ↗
Registration, moving a little bit? Yeah. Oh, in MRI you're moving too, of course. So, we have a bunch of depth sensors inside the tube that map your body. And to be honest, our alignment is not the best. We don't have enough engineers to have every feature we should, but we feel pretty good about that. We have all the cameras—you're going through, you can see the body really well. You just have to align it rigidly. The inside should be good.
Moderator 1:24:38 ↗
Great. We got some questions from the hive mind. Caleb over here in the—

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Holz, D. (2026, June 20). Midjourney Medical Hardware 1 Unveiling with David Holz [Interview transcript]. Heller House. CEOInterviews.AI. https://ceointerviews.ai/interview/997942/

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David Holz. "Midjourney Medical Hardware 1 Unveiling with David Holz." Heller House, 20 Jun. 2026. Transcript, CEOInterviews.AI, https://ceointerviews.ai/interview/997942/.

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@misc{holz2026_997942,
  author       = {David Holz},
  title        = {Midjourney Medical Hardware 1 Unveiling with David Holz},
  howpublished = {Interview transcript, Heller House. CEOInterviews.AI},
  year         = {2026},
  month        = {jun},
  url          = {https://ceointerviews.ai/interview/997942/},
  note         = {Speaker-attributed transcript with timestamps}
}