Kevin Lygo: ITV | Meet the Controllers | Edinburgh TV Festival 2018

Didn't make it in time. Hello everyone. I'm Sarah Jane Mee and this is Kevin Lygo. And thank you all for joining us in this work. Some of you are still filtering in, if you want to hurry up and take your seats as the session is about to begin. Kevin, welcome to the Jeremy Corbyn overspill room.

I love the fact that there was an announcement asking people to leave the room. Thank you to those who stayed for this session. This is not the Jeremy Corbyn show. I said, Kevin, you're going to have to give us some controversy here today, right?

Well, we're going to do the ITV end-of-year report. It is GCSE results today, so Kevin's going to open his envelope and see how ITV did. But of course the viewers are a big judge of that. Let's have a look at some of what they've been watching over the last 12 months.

How much of your focus is on Piers? He's on holiday at the moment, or ITV have sent him to America to interview murderers. Thank you for that holiday. But how much are you channeling his populist element? You tried to move that into the evening with Good Evening Britain. Are you sprinkling a bit of Piers across?

How concerned are you about GMB competing with BBC Breakfast? Breakfast is the most entrenched viewing part of the day.

What are you looking for if people come to you with factual entertainment ideas?

Let's talk about commissions from outside ITV Studios. ITV Studios makes up two-thirds of output. Is there preferential treatment? How open is your door to Indies?

Where are the gaps in ITV? What are you looking for? What's niggling you?

Do you want to play more on live television because you mentioned it happening in that month?

What do you think you're doing right in commissioning dramas? ITV had the most watched new dramas: Liar with 8.3 million, Little Boy Blue with 7.4, Broadchurch finale with 11.6 million.

Before we move away from drama, you have a big-budget costume drama. Has costume drama had its day?

Let's move to entertainment. Solid year: I'm a Celebrity, The Voice, Britain's Got Talent, Dancing on Ice, and X Factor back looking different. Should we have a look?

Does it worry you that you're not seeing replacements for those big Saturday night shows?

And let's move on to the talent side of things. It's been a very tricky year for one of your big stars in particular, Ant of Ant & Dec fame, and the decision was taken a little while ago to give him the rest of the year off so he could deal with his personal issues. I want to know what it was like being the head of ITV when all of that kicked off, because you talked about having your big stars, the ones that guarantee audiences like that, and Ant and Dec, all those stars.

The X Factor, the jungle? Only say or do you want someone? No, no, it will do it with somebody. Have you decided on that person? Yes, I have. Would you care to share it?

It's not long to go until it starts, there we wait for that. And just coming back to when that news first broke, there has been a lot of concentration on the fact that ITV had a small hall of presenters that they use for a lot of shows. Do you ever feel that you're over-reliant on people like Ant and Dec, Piers Morgan, Holly and you feels in terms of bringing through new talent? ITV1, the main channel, doesn't really seem to foster new talent.

And that very sort of question of diversity – we'll talk to Paul about that when he comes on as well. People are looking at diversity now, behind the scenes and on screen. People are saying that what you see on the main channels, BBC, ITV, perhaps doesn't reflect the people sitting and watching at home.

The whole social mobility thing – I know that Corbyn's Jeremy Corbyn, by the way, well done for country? This one just because – no, for the main reason that the Commission, these are the people that they're here for. The Commission is not so... My headlines which I recall. But if he saw it, all kicked off on social media because he made comments about... He's obviously very big on social mobility and he said that BBC employees should reveal their social class so the organisation is more transparent. So you know, what kind of school you went to, what jobs your parents did. Just wonder what you make of that as an ITV?

Well from classless, let's introduce someone classy. And here in the corner of my eye, Paul Mortimer is with us now, controller of ITV digital and head of acquisitions. Paul will do. Hello, what a time to come on, Paul. We love the diversity. The use of course of Asian background is even higher? Here we go. Let's start with Love Island shall we, let's get that out of the way. Huge success on ITV2 and it made ITV the most watched channel for 16 to 34s over the past year. Huge effect – ITV Hub subscriptions of sixfold off the back of it this summer. And what is the secret to Love Island's success?

Oh no, lucky. It seems to have hit the sweet spot that any ITV2 commission is looking to achieve. It's pure and simply an entertainment format. It looks fabulous, the guys are in a fabulous location, the girls and boys are beautiful. It's fun entertainment. Dating is a format in many guises, as you know, been around as long as television has. And it's produced fantastically well by a brilliant team of about 200 people in Mallorca who turn around an hour's worth of television every day and deliver something that over the four seasons we've done it has become the must-see thing for anybody under 30. So we're very lucky to have it. I'm very happy to have it. The secret to it is, retrospectively you can always find the thing that is making any show a hit, but I think it's just in tune with the audience. And of course it's relevant in that it doesn't just play on television, it plays in other places across social media, on other platforms. And as you said, it's driven viewing to the Hub. The Hub whilst Love Island was on was doing bigger numbers than the BBC iPlayer, which is the first time that's ever happened. This cross-platform approach to content is where particularly the digital channels will be going forward. I would say that one of the great things about Love Island is that it sort of shuts up those people who say young people don't watch television anymore. Here was a show on ITV2 every night at 9 o'clock where it was a must-see for eight weeks. Every night practically every teenager and young person in the country was hooked. So I think that shows that luckily, presumably for everyone in this room, television is far from disconnected to young people.

And well, it's not just ITV2. Look after Paul, it's ITV3, ITV4, CITV, and you're head of acquisitions across the portfolio. And let's have a look – quite a view, ITV Be as well, they mustn't miss that off. And let's have a look at your sizzle tape. Looking at that sizzle tape, how happy are you the last year on those channels?

We've had an amazing year, actually. Like the main channels, almost everything is up, which is always great if you're a controller of any channel. So we're in a really healthy place. The thing about the digital channels – the portfolio is designed to mop up all of the audiences that aren't necessarily catered for at any given juncture by the main channel. We target specific and different demographics with each channel. I think what we've done in the last few years is we've really super-focused our attentions on young people on ITV2, upmarket older viewers on ITV3, men on ITV4. I think the portfolio looks tighter. I think we collaborate much better than we've ever done with the main channel. They allow us a bit more leeway now, so we can be super competitive in almost every slot. It's really paying off. I've been talking anecdotally to people this week, and Edinburgh in August, off the back of Love Island, as Kevin was saying, the results and performance of the content that was on ITV2 in May is the best time to be here. It's not all downhill – we've got great shows on each and every one of our channels. But things here today – we've had some big numbers. The number for ITV2 has never been stronger. We've got a 6.8 share year to date of young adults, and that's almost double where we were four years ago. So we're in a very healthy place.

Okay, to be investing heavily in digital, I know that there is investment in streaming service as well. There's a lot of focus on that at the moment. How much did that play a factor in your decision not to move Love Island and put it on the main channel? Because there was a lot of talk ahead of this summer as to whether you would do that. Why did you decide to keep it on ITV2?

Because that's where it is. It's a show that's not terribly important to that channel? Actually, it is aimed at young people, and ITV2 is only sold on the basis of young people. I think if it were on the main channel, we might give some old lady a heart attack, and that wouldn't be a good thing. It probably wouldn't do much better on the main channel. I think it's a perfectly formed thing. There are things we can do on ITV2 which you couldn't do on the main channel. Kevin just alluded to language. With a show like Celebrity Juice, which is still a big hitting comedy entertainment piece for us, it's the rudest show on television and it wouldn't fit very well on the main channel. I think Love Island is kind of playing a little bit in that space as well. There was no debate, it's never been asked. No, we've never had fights about that.

Let's just bring it back to the diversity chat we were having with Kevin earlier. You've got a hit, sure. If it courts controversy, people talk about it good and bad. There was a lot of focus on diversity and body image when it came to Love Island this year. What were your thoughts on that? Because there was a lot of criticism saying these girls don't look like normal girls, it's giving younger girls bad ideas of what it means to...

Yeah, we've got a lot of criticism. This show is now doing four million viewers every night, so if you've got an agenda or a point to make, you can peg it onto a hit show like Love Island and push it up the news agenda. So we were prepared for criticism as well as celebration around the fact that the show is doing so well. On the body image thing, we cast very attractive people because it's a sexy show, it's entertainment on ITV2. In the same way that Hollywood casts a certain type to get bums on seats, other entertainment shows like Strictly have dancers. You could apply it to any entertainment. It's also a very aspirational programme for our audience. It's the perfect holiday that they can only aspire towards. It comes along at a time when people are readying themselves for their holiday that they've scrimped and saved for. We're showing them the best example of what they could have on their own summer of love. So we cast sixty people, it's a sexy channel. These people work quite hard at it. There's a gym there, we show people working out. There's another conversation about childhood obesity – if you want to look like these guys, you have to work at it, watch what you eat. So we make no excuses for the fact that people more beautiful than others are entitled to go into a villa for eight weeks and find love.

Yeah, it's interesting because a lot of people saying why don't they have more normal people, older people? Early Valentine Summer? Yes, yes they did, and if you wanted to watch that, you did. And what's next for ITV2 now? Building on the back of Love Island, where are you going with it? You're grabbing people's attention and more people than ever are watching it.

Well, probably where we're not going is back to 12 sexy singles arriving in paradise in format X or Y. I think we've got the best version of that show, and it takes up quite a lot of our resources and quite a lot of our schedule. What we said when we retooled ITV2 about four years ago and launched ITV Be to cater for the more ob-doc style reality entertainment is we wanted to be entertainment first and inject a bit more comedy into ITV2. So we've got Plebs, which is one of my favourite things, a sitcom that will be back again next year. We have a second season of a comedy launched last year called Timewasters, about a time-travelling jazz band. We've got a comedy we are piloting. Working with Saskia Schuster, head of comedy at ITV, who's got amazing connections. We get a lot of scripts for ITV2. They need to be relatively high concept, aimed directly at 20-somethings. On the other hand, birds of a feather or the jiggy sitcom on ITV, and then the flip side is Plebs and Timewasters. It's ten years of Celebrity Juice, that will be back in the autumn with some live episodes. We've got another new show, hybrid comedy and sketch show, a platform for new and established comedians. In entertainment, we have a brand new show this autumn not yet announced. Broadly it's a comedy show based around the world of hip-hop and grime music, very diverse, interesting cast to be announced soon. We're still open to pitches in entertainment reality space, but we don't need another Love Island, seven nights a week for eight weeks. We're looking for schedule disruptors, as Kevin said, things that break up the rhythm of the schedule, maybe run across a week or fortnight with a purpose and overarching narrative. The main channel has set points of the year: Celebrity Takeaway, X Factor, Britain's Got Talent.

Do you only see yourself as having Love Island as that main set piece? So Survival of the Fittest was something that was Love Island-esque. Is that coming back? Or is there any room for Love Island for...?

Yeah, we're talking about what we do in January. Survival of the Fittest is something that would need to be retooled if it came back, and we're having conversations internally. But we have Survival of the Fittest this year. Love Island takes up a lot of our resource, and one thing we don't want to be is that stripped entertainment reality destination. In terms of how many we can fit into a schedule, it has to complement the main channel. Love Island comes at a juncture when we've just finished the final week of BGT, we wouldn't crossover. That's where ITV and ITV2 work really well together. Rosemary will slightly take her foot off the gas in May/June because she appreciates ITV2 has a big hitting show to get out to young people. So the commissions we're looking to make aren't the big set piece Love Island things, they're smaller productions. Well, they will inevitably be smaller because Love Island was smaller when it started. Now it's a success, we know how to make it, the team is more experienced, the audience appetite is there. We've added the aftershow which has only been around for two seasons. We are looking for ideas that can grow into what Love Island is now. But it's ambitious to take a brand new idea and run it for eight weeks every day, turn it around in 24 hours. We could get there on another project, but we wouldn't start there.

Have you got a bit of that to spend? Kevin was talking earlier about he loves spending money in the right places to make it look great. Previously you said the programming budget was 17% of the total ITV pot. Is that increased?

No, sir, it's the same. But there is an NPB which Kevin controls. Last year we spent 70% of that. We have to pay for movie deals with American studios, sports rights, not least on ITV4 where we're still in the sports game. We have about £100 million left over which we spend on UK originated programming with producers like those in this room. So we're very well funded for digital channels. We don't miss like more; there are holes in schedules where we could do more if we had resource. That's where we're at. If we spend it wisely, who knows, it might be more in the future.

We'll soon... And let's talk about ITV4. 9 out of 10 of your top programmes are sports. It's sort of the Dave's face. Would you say you're in there? What are you looking for to put on that channel?

Well, when we're not in the sports space, because we are more known for our sports and we spend effort securing key rights like Tour de France, French Open, Isle of Man TT. Those sports sit well on ITV4 aimed at men. When the numbers come in, normally a bit south of a million, it's totally acceptable. None of our top ten shows are sport, but we have been commissioning for as long as ITV4 has been around. In the past we tended to commission things tethered to sports anniversaries or sports talent. We've just had a rethink. Entering the Dave space – I think Taskmaster on Dave is a fabulous programme. We're doing this September a night of original content aimed at men on ITV4, all brand new, not sport. One happens to be a quiz about football, but it could be about anything, it's more about the comedy. The anchor of the night at 9 o'clock is a physical game show called Take the Tower. They shot it on location in South Africa, looks fantastic. It pays homage to 1980s action and disaster movies. There's a baddie at the top of the tower played by Dolph Lundgren. Interestingly, the commission happened without talent attached. We knew we needed a baddie to live in the penthouse and throw people out the window. We approached him, he was available and willing, and he does a really good job.

Okay, let's have a look at a little taster of what's to come from Take the Tower. And let's quickly talk about ITV Be. Obviously that relies a lot on reality. I know you've got a new reality show set in a skirt that's been making headlines already. What is the future of reality television on ITV Be? Because you could see a crossover between that and ITV2. How do you divide the two?

Yeah, interesting. We never really thought Love Island would come along and break out as big as it was when we had retooled ITV2 as a comedy and entertainment destination. But to be fair, on Love Island, Ian Stirling's voiceover was to add comedy because we felt that helped locate it on ITV2 in a world where we also had Dolly Udder? So ITV Be is more about that ob-doc style entertainment. TOWIE is still the big show on ITV Be, it moved across from ITV2 when we reorged the portfolio. We're absolutely still in that space. The show you mentioned is called Absolutely Ascot, it's kind of TOWIE-esque but slightly different. It's a precinct where young people's lives, loves, and tribulations are caught on camera. We have high hopes, I've seen a bit, the characters are amazing. We're also doing more with bigger characters on ITV Be. Gemma Collins, the GC, is a huge star from TOWIE and increasingly other shows. We've been following her summer in Marbella in a one-off 90-minute special called Diva as Spaniards? That's my favourite title this year. We're doing more with Real Housewives of Cheshire, new housewives. We're open for business on ITV Be. Fundamentally we appeal to young women and young mums exclusively, hardly any blokes watch that channel, which is healthy because that's the offer to advertisers: spend with us and we'll deliver housewives with children. As long as the story features big characters, often women, but doesn't necessarily need to be, and you can secure access with interesting narrative, we're happy to talk about developing and lighting it.

Okay, so ITV seems to be healthy across all its platforms at the moment. We're coming to the end of the session. Just finally, for everyone out there taking notes as to what you want from production companies, what's your perfect pitch? What would be the pitch you'd enjoy most or have enjoyed most?

Well, I like the Take the Tower one because that's from Two Four, and they always come in with lots of handy visuals and they've really thought about the tone, feel, and look, taking you into the experience. The drier ones that come with a piece of A4 with a few notes probably don't excite you as much. So it needs to be worked up to a point where you can visualise it as television rather than an idea on paper. Some come with sizzles, some with talent attached, but that's not necessary all the time. For a great idea that needs working up, we can put some paid development behind it to get it where it needs to be before we're comfortable enough to go into Kevin with a bit of paper. So Kevin, can you sign off on that? Because Kevin signs off on all commissions across all channels.

Yeah, Kevin, what gets you excited from a new programme pitch?

Oh Kevin, and Paul Mortimer, thank you for talking to us here today. I heard that was really for everyone. And thank you for coming along this morning. Thank you.