We welcome Josu Imaz, the CEO of Repsol. Thank you for coming to the Real Automóvil Club Navarro, an institution that has more years than your company. We've already passed 102 years, right? Our company is 40 years old, but it was the union of many small companies, some up to 80 years old. Still, we don't reach the antiquity or institutional strength of the Real Automóvil Club.
Today you are in the RAC magazine, which is also an institution. Have you ever had an issue in your hands?
Without a doubt. I have the good fortune to know Juan Mari Mañero, here present, who has been linked to this magazine for decades. It's a pleasure. We are both from Guipúzcoa and have shared different stages of our lives. Now, you asked about politics. I believe in the permeability between the professional and political worlds. I have spent 27 years in the private sector and 13 in the public sector, from 1994 to 2007. I fulfilled my public service stage with successes and errors, but that chapter is closed. I think it's good for experience to transfer between sectors. However, politics today in Western societies is very polarized and harsh, which discourages young professionals from entering. I am glad I contributed during a difficult time associated with violence and terrorism, but I have closed that folder.
In your different stages, are you aware that every time you speak, as they say, the price of bread goes up? Your statements never go unnoticed.
Yes, I am aware. I think it's a characteristic, whether virtue or defect. I tend to say what I think, with filters, because if everyone said everything, society would be a jungle. I try to be transparent and loyal. I value institutions and I am loyal to them, but I am also very frank. I think open debate helps society make better decisions. In a world where many people make safe, standard statements, I tend to be very clear.
Let's talk clearly about combustion vehicles and what the European Union said. Why has the EU changed its mind? Did it do it late? Was it expected? Will it change its mind again?
Mobility and transport have several facets. First, the car is a means of freedom. I belong to a generation for which the car meant being able to go to the beach, to parties. It was access to the middle class. Second, the automobile is a crucial industry. Spain is the second vehicle manufacturer in Europe, and in the Basque Country, the automotive sector represents about 20% of GDP. Our industrial fabric is deeply dependent on it. Third, there is the environmental aspect. In Europe, we have forgotten the first two and demonized the car. We have also made a grave error by putting in threat the European automotive sector. I am not against electric vehicles; I helped create the first EV charging company in Spain in 2011. But the electric car cannot be the only solution. The EU's 2035 ban was a mistake. Fortunately, that wall has been broken, but the measures are still insufficient. The industry needs a clear signal of growth. Moreover, the idea that electric cars have zero CO2 is false. In the full life cycle, considering the coal used in Chinese mining, an electric car can emit more CO2 than a modern combustion engine running on renewable fuels. We need to let people choose and support fleet renewal, not force one technology.
So, when you first got a 600, it was a 600, right?
No, it wasn't a 5000. There are even songs about the 5000, but I won't sing them. Yes, it's very difficult to do some things in a Sinca 1000. It's true.
For us, as children, we wanted to go to the beach. That was the space of freedom. And now you buy a car, pay a lot, and even if you buy an electric car, people point fingers. 'How could you buy a car?' Better to ride a bicycle. We have closed one chapter and opened a completely different one.
I respect cyclists a lot; it's a lifestyle choice and perfectly compatible. Many of my friends bike and own cars. We must not divide society. The vehicle is freedom, within rules. The car was a symbol of the middle class, and that same aspiration is happening in emerging countries like China, India, Indonesia. Hundreds of millions have escaped poverty thanks to development. For them, the car, the washing machine, the television are milestones. We should aim for people to live better, not condemn them to a lower standard of living, while respecting the environment.
Speaking of famous phrases of Josu Imaz, this is yours: 'The electric car is not the solution; it's part of the solution.'
Totally agreed. I said it myself. But it's true. Let's disentangle the problem. There are two distinct issues: local pollution and global CO2. Local pollution from particles and NOx is a health problem. But modern diesel engines (Euro 6) emit 93-94% fewer particles and 84% fewer NOx than old ones. So simply renewing the fleet with modern combustion engines drastically reduces local pollution. The real problem is CO2 and climate change. But we must measure correctly. The electric car's life-cycle CO2 can be higher, depending on the electricity mix. In Germany, it's even more evident. So we should not force one technology. Instead, we should support fleet renewal, letting people choose electric, hybrid, or efficient combustion. That would reduce emissions, revitalize the automotive industry, and generate tax revenue. The current policy of only subsidizing electric cars creates uncertainty and reduces car sales, making the fleet older and dirtier. We need a realistic approach.
At the Real Automóvil Club Vasco Navarro, we defend all types of energy. I know Repsol has invested heavily in hydrogen and synthetic fuels. When will this be a reality? What should those of us who don't have a car ready for these fuels do?
I'll dissect the answer. The technological answer is already available today: renewable fuel. At our plant in Cartagena, we produce a diesel from vegetable oils, used oils, animal fats, and plastic pyrolysis that is indistinguishable from mineral diesel. We have over 450 stations in Spain offering 100% renewable diesel, about 40-45% of our network. It costs 9-12 cents more per liter, but that's because it pays the same tax as fossil diesel. If it had a tax break similar to electric vehicles, it would be very competitive. And here is the key fact: a vehicle using renewable diesel emits less CO2 over its life cycle than an electric car. That is factual. If anyone wants to debate, let's do a deep technical study. In Germany, the advantage is even clearer due to the coal-heavy grid. So, renewable fuel is ready now. What objection is there to allowing a combustion engine in 2035 if it runs on renewable fuel? It would be a purely ideological war against the combustion engine.
It is not a war against CO2, because you do not admit this and this is the current technological bet. We also have future bets. I recently visited a plant we are building in Musquiz, in Petronor, which is a European pioneer for synthetic fuels. How is synthetic fuel made? It is a future bet. We will start producing a few thousand tons per year now. If we can advance its technological development, it can scale in a decade. We take a CO2 stream, combine it with renewable hydrogen from water electrolysis, and through the Fischer-Tropsch process we obtain a diesel that is exactly the same molecule but absolutely CO2 neutral. When burned, it emits the same CO2 that was previously captured, so it is neutral. Hydrogen is part of this. We also have hydrogen fuel cell vehicles and hydrogen stations. These are technological bets we need to invest in. The great advantage is that the infrastructure and cars are the same; you can reduce CO2 if you want and if prices support it.
So until a while ago it seemed there were only two types of cars, combustion and electric, but there are many more variables. The future is uncertain for the user. The average car life in Spain is 14.8 years, so for the next 15 years, what technologies will dominate? I think the sales block for the next 10-15 years will be internal combustion engines in gasoline and diesel variants, with hybridization of gasoline, which makes sense.
