CEO (and Managing Director Retail/eCommerce), Marc O'Polo SE
Marc-O'Polo-Chef Böck: „Die Königsdisziplin ist, zwei Themen perfekt auszusteuern: Daten und Gefühl“
2023 war ein schweres Jahr für die deutschen Modehändler: P&C, Peter Hahn, Görtz, Hallhuber, Gerry Weber – sie alle mussten Insolvenz anmelden. Bei einer deutschen Modekette allerdings lief es ziemlich gut: Marc O’Polo hat mehr als 600 Millionen Euro umgesetzt. Und der Chef Maximilian Böck ist heute zu Gast im Chefgespräch.
Die Geschichte von Marc O’Polo beginnt 1967 in Stockholm – mit einem handgewebten Patchwork-Hemd aus indischer Baumwolle, dem ersten Kollektionsteil der drei Firmengründer. Dass Marc O’Polo heute nicht nur zwei Drittel des Umsatzes im deutschsprachigen Raum macht, sondern s...
About Maximilian Böck
In a February 2024 interview on the Wirtschaftswoche podcast "Chefgespräch," Maximilian Böck discussed the performance and strategy of Marc O'Polo. He stated that 2023 was a difficult year for German fashion retailers, noting that several companies filed for insolvency, while Marc O'Polo generated over 600 million euros in revenue. Böck described the company's approach to decision-making, saying, "We try to make fewer decisions based on gut feeling, but more decisions based on data. The perfect mix of instinct, trend instinct and data is the supreme discipline." He also said the company had "invested heavily in sustainability, even at the expense of the margin, without increasing prices accordingly." Böck, who joined the company in 2017 and took over leadership in 2021, is the son of Werner Böck, who became the majority shareholder of Marc O'Polo in 1997. During the interview, Böck brought a set of Japanese kitchen knives he purchased during a study abroad semester in Tokyo in 2011–2012, explaining that he values having good tools when cooking as a form of relaxation.
Transcript (88 segments)
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Marinia Berner0:03
Chefgespräch, a podcast from Wirtschaftswoche. 2023 was a difficult year for German fashion retailers: Peek & Cloppenburg, Peter Hahn, Grasser, Hallhuber, Gary Weber all filed for bankruptcy. But one German fashion chain did well: Marc O'Polo achieved over 600 million euros in revenue, and its CEO Maximilian Böck is today's guest on chefgespräch. Welcome! Hello, I'm delighted. My name is Marinia Berner, I lead the Management and Career department at Wirtschaftswoche and will guide you through this podcast. Marc O'Polo's story began in 1967 in Stockholm with a hand-woven patchwork shirt made of Indian cotton, the first collection piece of the three founders. That Marc O'Polo today not only makes two-thirds of its revenue in the German-speaking region but also has its headquarters in Staltkirchen near Staffelsee in Upper Bavaria, is due to the man the founders met a year later at a fashion fair in Cologne: Werner Böck. On the same day, he became the brand's first importer and in 1997 its majority owner. Twenty years later, his son Maximilian joined the company and took over leadership in 2021. Why this was not so self-evident and what he does better today than all those struggling fashion retailers, that's what we'll discuss in the next about 45 minutes. And of course, we also want to clarify what men and women should wear next season. And in every chefgespräch, we start with the first impression. I asked my colleague Stefan Kniebs what comes to mind when he thinks of Marc O'Polo, and he brought us this: the first impression. In the past, I often confused Marc O'Polo with Ralph Lauren because they have a sub-brand called Polo at Ralph Lauren. Now I can tell them apart quite well because I consider Marc O'Polo, in contrast to Ralph Lauren, much less snobby. The clothing is subtle but not boring, quality and prices are not luxury but clearly elevated compared to German pedestrian zone standards like C&A, H&M, S.Oliver, and so on. So in short, if you shop at Marc O'Polo, I find you usually look quite chic, and that's more than most German clothing companies claim for themselves.
Are you satisfied with this judgment, Mr. Böck?
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Maximilian Böck2:48
I can underline a lot of that. Yes, we are indeed sometimes confused with Polo because of the name, but actually we also produce casual wear, so the cut is also present with end customers and in the assortment, but with a completely different background. One is US-founded, and we come from Stockholm, so a completely different history behind it.
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Marinia Berner3:14
I had to think of a German-Spanish wedding I attended over 10 years ago, where you could very precisely distinguish the Germans from the Spanish guests at first glance. The Spanish grandmother later raved about that one German woman who came in Birkenstocks and linen pants instead of squeezing into tight dresses and high heels. I must confess, I personally found my compatriots rather embarrassing at this binational wedding. Can we Germans do fashion now?
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Maximilian Böck3:53
Yes, the reputation is often that, and it's the same for me at weddings. The style of Germans is a bit different from that of Spaniards, Italians, or French. Italians and French are much more classic, also a bit more dressed up, more formal, and the ladies often more sexy as you described. Germans are very casual, sportswear-driven, it's allowed to be functional. That's just the taste of Germans, but they are often also a bit more fashion-conscious and like to wear louder colors more often, which isn't always very positive in my eyes.
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Marinia Berner5:18
You said that very diplomatically. Let's talk about the German man in more detail. About a third of your revenue currently comes from men's fashion, and you want to increase this share. How do you appeal to the German man?
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Maximilian Böck5:41
The German man is not so interested in fashion itself, but more brand-focused. We try to acquire him through brand awareness and desirability, so we invest heavily in sports marketing and product offers with the right price-performance ratio. However, men shop less online than women; online, our sales are only about 20% men's, as women tend to shop online and men prefer in-store visits for advice.
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Marinia Berner6:23
That aligns with my image of men. If he doesn't shop online or stroll on Saturdays, how do you reach him?
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Maximilian Böck6:28
Men shop when they need something, so we ensure they buy from us through broader marketing, especially in sports marketing. For example, we equip Sky Sport moderators, as men are more reachable through football and hobbies, not social media. We plan to separate men's and women's marketing more in the future.
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Marinia Berner7:16
You mentioned Marc O'Polo is casual, and you profited from the pandemic. Now, post-pandemic, people are dressing up more. How much do you feel this in your sales?
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Maximilian Böck7:33
We see more formal items selling again, like classic shirts. This is positive for us, as we offer a range of blouses, shirts, dresses, and blazers. Demand for sweatshirts has dropped, while knitwear and formal styles are increasing.
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Marinia Berner8:29
Would you include suits in your collection?
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Maximilian Böck8:59
We have occasional suiting items, but classic suits are not planned as it's not our core business. We focus on casual wear.
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Marinia Berner10:29
What should men and women wear this spring? What should we prepare for?
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Maximilian Böck10:54
Customers look forward to many beautiful colors, not too loud or bright. The trend is towards more refined colors, pastels, and especially linen for summer. We sell linen shirts, pants, and dresses very well, and it's great for weddings, even with sneakers.
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Marinia Berner12:12
Enough about German aesthetics; Marc O'Polo wants to be a global brand in 80 markets. You postponed expansion to the US after the Ukraine war. When will you step there?
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Maximilian Böck12:48
We plan to be in North and South America, but due to current global crises, we must proceed cautiously. We have potential in existing markets, so focus is on Europe for now.
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Marinia Berner13:26
I'm glad to be German or European because Americans lack good style. Do you need to do much education there?
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Maximilian Böck13:41
There's a big gap in the US between East and West, city and rural areas. New York and LA are modern, but rural areas have little fashion focus. In Canada, Toronto isn't as fashion-focused as Paris or London.
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Marinia Berner14:31
Beyond Fashion Week, Berlin has become a hotspot. Would you say so?
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Maximilian Böck14:40
Yes, Berlin has its own style, very fashionable and modern compared to Munich, which is more classic and Italian-influenced.
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Marinia Berner15:00
What is the Berliner style?
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Maximilian Böck15:06
Berliners have their own style, often black and a bit grungy.
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Marinia Berner15:35
Now Hamburg, close to Sweden, sells Scandinavian elegance?
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Maximilian Böck15:53
Yes, Hamburg has high penetration for Marc O'Polo; the style fits well there.
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Marinia Berner16:01
We talked about casual wear during the pandemic. Sustainability was also a theme. Is fast fashion over now?
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Maximilian Böck16:28
Fast fashion won't be over soon, given the success of Shein and others. Not everyone can afford premium, so fast fashion remains relevant. Sustainability is in our DNA, and we invest heavily, though customer focus has shifted post-pandemic due to price concerns.
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Marinia Berner17:29
But buying durable, timeless products might align with sustainability?
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Maximilian Böck18:10
Exactly, we emphasize product longevity and quality. However, impulse buys for trends still happen, so fast fashion will persist.
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Marinia Berner18:40
Marc O'Polo has about eight collections a year. Is that necessary?
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Maximilian Böck19:12
We evaluate our collection rhythm. It's not about the number of collections, but delivering the right articles to the right place at the right time to meet demand and avoid overstock.
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Marinia Berner19:36
How regionally precise are you in timing deliveries?
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Maximilian Böck19:52
We think in months, adjusting delivery times for different countries. For example, jackets for Germany in August might be for Spain in September. We aim to be customer-oriented in wholesale and retail.
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Marinia Berner20:45
Time for Chefsache: we ask guests to bring something meaningful. What did you bring, Mr. Böck?
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Maximilian Böck21:18
I don't have it with me, but during my time in Japan, I bought Japanese kitchen knives, which I've used for 12 years. They accompany me through many moves, and I use them when cooking, which I do for relaxation.
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Marinia Berner22:35
Do you use them daily or for special occasions?
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Maximilian Böck22:52
Whenever I cook, I use them. I dislike cooking with dull or small knives.
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Marinia Berner23:19
What do you cook and for whom?
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Maximilian Böck23:35
It varies. I cook with my mother sometimes. Currently, I'm avoiding meat, so I make cauliflower and broccoli dishes, or fish, sushi, and occasionally meat.
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Marinia Berner24:18
You studied in Tokyo; what fascinated you there?
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Maximilian Böck24:41
Almost everything: the culture, politeness, and consideration for others. It's impressive how people behave with so many on little space. Also, fashion culture, quality, food, and the nice people make me want to return.
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Marinia Berner25:29
Do you speak Japanese in Staltkirchen?
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Maximilian Böck25:46
No, I learned a little Japanese for daily life, but not fluent.
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Marinia Berner26:03
Do you read manga in Japanese?
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Maximilian Böck26:12
No, I'm not a fan.
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Marinia Berner26:38
Let's go back to your childhood. Your father was one of the first partners, and you were 8 when he took over in 1997. Do you remember that?
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Maximilian Böck26:53
Yes, the German headquarters was already here. My mother was a retailer, so we spent time in the warehouse. No operational contact, but family life revolved around the company.
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Marinia Berner27:30
What did you do in the warehouse with your brother?
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Maximilian Böck27:41
We tried on clothes, but they were too big in the 90s. We wanted to wear them but were too small.
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Marinia Berner28:03
Could you show off Marc O'Polo clothes at school?
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Maximilian Böck28:11
At a certain age, Marc O'Polo wasn't cool anymore, so we mixed brands. I still wear a lot of Marc O'Polo but not exclusively.
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Marinia Berner28:31
Was it cool to have a fashion retailer father?
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Maximilian Böck28:41
I never thought about it; it was just how it was. Marc O'Polo was known in the region, but I never wondered about alternatives.
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Marinia Berner29:12
Was the company a topic at dinner?
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Maximilian Böck29:19
Not really; my father couldn't separate work and family well. The industry is emotional, so we often discussed fashion, even at Christmas after wine.
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Marinia Berner30:02
Do you find that beautiful or sometimes burdensome?
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Maximilian Böck30:12
I'd prefer better separation. My wife isn't in fashion, so I'm glad it's not daily at home.
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Marinia Berner30:24
You lead the company in the second generation, calling it privilege and pressure. Which outweighs?
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Maximilian Böck30:37
I feel more privilege than pressure. I enjoy the challenge and work in a great industry with positive people. The company culture is fantastic.
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Marinia Berner31:35
What values define Marc O'Polo's culture?
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Maximilian Böck31:44
We are team-oriented, open, no hierarchies, and use informal language. Employees spend free time together, and there's strong emotional binding to the brand.
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Marinia Berner32:25
You're called 'Max' or 'Maxi'. Is that fine with you?
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Maximilian Böck32:49
Yes, it's a Bavarian thing; Maximilian becomes Max or Maxi. I'm used to it and feel accepted.
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Marinia Berner33:15
Did you ever feel just like the boss's son?
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Maximilian Böck33:30
No, my actions speak. I feel well-accepted and work with a great team.
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Marinia Berner33:51
Did you feel implicit pressure from your father to join?
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Maximilian Böck34:15
Thankfully, no. He kept it open, and I studied Business Administration, focusing on finance. My entry into fashion came through a trainee program at Peek & Cloppenburg, where I enjoyed the mix of product emotion and data-driven supply chain.
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Marinia Berner34:36
Did you choose the trainee program with Marc O'Polo in mind?
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Maximilian Böck34:49
I was deciding between finance consulting and fashion. I chose the trainee program to explore fashion and might still consult later. It was fun learning the basics, and I gained early leadership experience.
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Marinia Berner35:42
When did you know you could join Marc O'Polo?
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Maximilian Böck36:01
It happened by chance. At Peek & Cloppenburg, the retail manager at Marc O'Polo offered me a buyer position. I agreed and then informed my father, who was pleased.
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Marinia Berner36:36
Did he admit his openness was a tactic?
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Maximilian Böck37:01
Yes, he knew I'd prefer working in the family firm. I'm glad it happened this way.
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Marinia Berner37:23
You said you hope your father passed on the gut feeling for decisions. How's your assessment after 2.5 years?
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Maximilian Böck37:44
He gave me much, but gut feeling must be earned. We're shifting to data-driven decisions while keeping our culture. We're achieving better results through data analysis and measurement.
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Marinia Berner38:14
What metrics do you use for decisions?
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Maximilian Böck38:28
For marketing, we survey customers on campaign appeal. For products, we track turnover speed, click rates, search trends, and aim for customer-oriented offerings to reduce waste.
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Marinia Berner39:02
You started during crises: pandemic, war, inflation. Was the learning curve steep?
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Maximilian Böck39:14
Extremely. We had a cyberattack in 2019, then Corona, then inflation and war. Despite crises, we grew over 50% since 2019/20 by making good decisions and investments in sustainability, product, internationalization, and online.
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Marinia Berner40:45
Quick-fire round: a quote by Albert Schweitzer: 'Success is not the key to happiness; happiness is the key to success.' Your view?
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Maximilian Böck40:53
One shouldn't rely on happiness.
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Marinia Berner42:21
Loud or quiet?
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Maximilian Böck42:26
Quiet.
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Marinia Berner42:45
What annoys you?
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Maximilian Böck42:52
Talking too much.
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Marinia Berner44:13
Thank you for the insights. Next episode, my colleague Konrad Fischer will talk with Jürgen Reinert of SMA Solar. Send suggestions to chefgesprä[email protected] and leave a positive review if you enjoyed this.
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Maximilian Böck44:41
It was a pleasure. Thank you.
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Marinia Berner45:14
Thank you for listening to chefgespräch.