Canada Was the Beta Test, The US is Next (El Salvador is the Fix) | Rumble CEO Chris Pavlovski

Thanks for having me. This is great to be in El Salvador again. I've been here a few times, but it gets better every single time I'm here. Well, like Chimber was saying earlier, you need to start looking at some real estate down here. So, when you fly down, your clothes and stuff are already ready for you.

So, I don't think Canada was different at all compared to America when it comes to free speech in terms of growing up, going to school, what we thought about, how we looked at it. I remember like it was yesterday being on the school playground with my friends and people would hurl jokes at people and they'd be like, 'It's a free country. It's free speech. We can say whatever we want.' That happened in Canada and that happened in my life. So I don't think it was very different; I would imagine America is pretty much the same thing. Growing up as a child, free speech was sacred. Even in Canada, growing up, everybody understood that having the ability to speak truth to power, to be able to say what you think and not be told what you can or cannot say or hear, that wasn't a thing. It was something that we all knew was very important. I grew up in the '90s and the late — I was born in the early '80s — and going to school in the '90s and even in the '80s as a little child, we all knew that free speech was sacred and we could say whatever we want on the playground without repercussions. That was just the normal life as a child, taught by our parents. It was ingrained in me as a Canadian growing up and ingrained in probably every child I remember growing up in Canada. And you saw during the trucker protest, a segment of Canada really vocalized their opinions and exercised their right to free speech to speak against the government. The trucker protest was something worldwide known in all American media and worldwide media of people standing up against their government to speak freely about what they thought. So I don't think there was much difference between the Canadian and American childhood, and that childhood certainly inspired me to do what I've done today.

I think it happened in the last 10 years. There's definitely been a shift in Canadian culture and the way they view American politics and the way they view the world. When that happened, it was shocking to everybody that protested. It was shocking to me. I always look at Canada as a testing ground of what could come to the United States. When I saw that, it was something that really kind of — the government crossed a red line in a way that I never thought I would ever see in a democracy like Canada. But to answer your question, the shift happened like 10 years ago, and I would say it's a culmination of many different things. One is that the government started cracking down on media on social media. In Canada, when you're on Instagram or Facebook and you click on a link that's perceived to be any type of political news, it will say we cannot take you there. It is censored by the platform due to some laws and restrictions that the government is imposing on the social media platforms. So Canada is in this isolation when it comes to media, very difficult to seek out independent media on any social media platforms, confined to all the corporate media on televisions. And it gets worse: Canada has state-owned media, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, funded by the government. For me, that's not media; that's a propaganda arm for the Canadian government. I don't believe in that. I don't think any government should participate in that. And it's one of the largest media organizations getting hundreds of millions of dollars from the Canadian government. Obviously, if you're getting that, you're not going to talk negatively about the incumbent government. Whereas on Rumble, you can talk negatively about whoever you want. So I think in the last 10 years, with all these restrictions on social media and the Liberal government in Canada and Trudeau funding CBC so heavily, it has culminated into a version of Canada that gives only a certain perspective to the majority of the population. They haven't been able to test or explore different opinions, and when they hear them, they're not even open to listening. So I think that's kind of what's happened. It's really loud. Those are some nice planes going over. Look at that.

Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. I think that's what's resulted in the population having the opinions that they've had. And unfortunately, it doesn't look like it's getting any better anytime soon; it's actually progressively getting worse. And there's been a lot of population change in the last 10 years with a lot of immigration. Canada has had around 5 million new people come to the country in the last 5 years, which is quite a lot. So that's had impact on narratives and news. I think all of this together has created an environment where people are not open to hearing other perspectives, not even curious, unlike in the United States.

Well, we moved to the United States in 2021, I guess, that was the main answer to that question. We're not in Canada in the way we were when we first started. It's unfortunate because we're a multi-billion dollar company that had to leave the country it was born in because of potential bills that would be so pro-censorship, anti-democratic, and violating human rights. We were forced to move to Florida because of that. Since then, it's been the greatest decision I've ever made. But it's very unfortunate that Canada pushes out companies like Rumble for no good reason. I think Rumble should be cherished by Canada; it's protecting free speech, freedom of expression. Freedom of expression is Article 19 of the UN Declaration of Human Rights. It is a human right to uphold freedom of expression, and Canada has an obligation to do that. Unfortunately, the bills they're trying to push — though they haven't gone through yet — are very similar to those in Europe. I'm not sure how long Canada will be able to stay a free society and uphold freedom of expression. I don't even see the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation challenging the government as they should. It's becoming a one-narrative-driven country without competing voices. Even the Conservative Party — in the last election, I didn't see much difference between the two parties in terms of optionality. They were saying the same thing one month prior. A year ago, during the trucker protest, it looked like the Conservative Party was completely different, but a month before the election, it felt like the Liberal and Conservative parties were one and the same, repeating the same talking points.

Well, I think our approach has changed. Let's talk Brazil and Russia. In Russia, they sent us a notice to remove a bunch of creators on our platform. We said no — we didn't even respond — and they shut off the platform entirely. In Brazil, the same thing happened. We responded and said no when they asked us to remove content, not because it violated our terms of service but because they didn't like the person or what they were saying opposing their government. Unfortunately, Brazil's Supreme Court justice took it to the telcos and shut us off at the IP level, shutting off Rumble to the entire country. In those instances, we have no power; they inflict penalties and turn us off at the telco level. Same in China. We did something different in France many years ago, and it proved the best route. In France, they sent demands to turn off content — I think it was Russia Today. We said no, they threatened to turn us off at the telco level, and we said we'd rather turn France off. So we turned France off and challenged them in court. About a month ago, we prevailed in court, and now we're back in France. The judicial system said the order was invalid. Looking back, that was the right approach, and we won. Rumble is available in France now; we fought for free speech and won.

Yeah, VPNs can get around it, there are ways to get around these shutdowns for sure within the countries, but it's not very practical because only a small percentage can afford to pay for a VPN and it's such legwork that 99% of the population won't do it. If you have half a million or a million users in Brazil, you won't reach the Brazilians en masse because 99% won't get a VPN. Unfortunately, it's not something people do en masse. There is a cohort that would do it, but it doesn't work. In the case of X, they promoted using a VPN, but at the end of the day, they ended up capitulating to all the censorship demands Brazil requested to get back in and access that user base. The VPN route just did not work.

Yeah, we're the only ones that don't capitulate to censorship demands. There is no platform that does that except...

Yeah, unfortunately, it's just us. There really isn't anyone doing that. It's unfortunate because if X would do it with us and Facebook would do it with us, then they would fold and free speech would win. But we need more people with courage.