Hi everybody, I'm joined today by a very dear friend, Mr. Kazuto Yamaki. Thank you so much for joining us today.
So Yamaki-san is the CEO of Sigma Camera. Sigma makes beautiful cameras and lenses, and they're doing a pop-up with us here at the Pedder Arcade. And their latest product is this. This is called the Sigma BF, and it is a really beautiful piece of work. Honestly, I'm not going to kid anyone here, I'm a big fan of what Yamaki-san does and a big fan of his way of doing things. And I don't think this camera could have been made by any other company. I think there's something really very special about it. So today, Yamaki-san, I was hoping we could talk a little bit about the origins of Sigma, the origins of this camera, as well as a historical overview of what's been happening in the company and where it might be going in the future.
Sigma was founded in 1961 by my father, Michihiro Yamaki. My father was working for a small optics company back then, but that company bankrupted one day. That company was quite small, but still had some suppliers. And the president or owners of such small suppliers asked my father to start the business to help their business. That's the start of Sigma. And from the beginning, we've been specialized in image devices such as interchangeable lenses, binoculars, and other optical devices. After that, 13 years ago, 2012, my father passed away and I took over the business. When I graduated graduate school in Japan, I immediately joined Sigma. So I've already worked at Sigma for many, many years.
Do you think of Sigma now as an optical company or as a camera company?
Well, it depends. I believe Sigma should be a camera manufacturer. And I hope people believe Sigma as a camera manufacturer, because my father's dream was to become a camera manufacturer, a camera brand. Actually, most of our revenue comes from the lens business. So many people believe Sigma is a lens manufacturer.
There's something interesting about Sigma, which is that Sigma lenses are all made in Japan at your facility. None of it's outsourced, none is from any other country. It's all made in Japan. Is that correct?
Correct. We have one single factory in Aizu, which is about 300 kilometers north of Tokyo. It's quite unique for a Japanese company. From the mid-90s, Japanese companies started offshoring manufacturing sites outside Japan because of the very strong Japanese yen and also very high labor cost. But Sigma decided to stay in Japan. First, we wanted to prioritize the quality. In order to create high-quality lenses, we needed experienced workers. If we offshore the manufacturing, we have to start from scratch, which may affect the quality of the products. We didn't want to deteriorate the quality. Second, as I said, Sigma is still a family-owned company. So as the owner of the company, it's very important to protect the employees' jobs. If Sigma can grow like this, we can maintain the factory in Japan. We could have other factories outside Japan and grow it together, but it's quite challenging. Normally, many companies invest in new factories and also have to shrink the factory in Japan. Right. And sometimes they have to lay off people, which we didn't want to. So we decided to stay in Japan and we still make all products in Aizu.
This is not your first camera either, is it?
Yeah. As Sigma, we already had our SLR in the early 70s, as I said, it was my father's dream. But it's quite a challenging business, and it costs a lot for us to make cameras. Back then in the 70s, 80s, Sigma was still a much smaller company. So the investment was way too heavy for us. But my father did not give up. Once he saved money and had enough money to invest in the camera, he tried camera. But we had just fewer models.
So of the digital cameras Sigma has released now, what are they from the beginning?
The beginning was 2002, I think. It was the camera called SD9, which featured the FOVEON X3 sensor. The FOVEON X3 sensor had a three-stacked layer sensor. It absorbed light like film. Each pixel can capture the three colors, blue, green, and red. Which is revolutionary. And the Sigma SD9 was the first and the only camera which featured the FOVEON X3 sensor.
I mean, it still has a cult following today, I think.
And then was that the Quattro after that?
No. We had several other cameras before Quattro. We had SD10 and the DP1, which featured a large sensor in a compact camera. And we had SD1 Merrill, DP1 Merrill, DP2 Merrill, DP3 Merrill. So we had several.
Wow, that's a lot. And then there was the fp after that as well, right?
In between we had the Quattro. And after that we launched our fp, which was our first digital camera which features a conventional Bayer sensor.
Yeah, that was a beautiful camera as well. And that one was more dedicated towards filmmaking, right?
It was a little bit in confusion and misunderstanding. We meant it as a pure hybrid camera. It can do both filming and still capturing. There is a switch which you can switch from still to cine. And once you change the mode from still to cine, the user interface completely switches to the cinema style, which is not normal for a conventional digital camera. So we meant it as a pure hybrid, cine and still digital camera. But in the market, it's misunderstood as more like a video camera or film camera.
I guess because I saw a lot more people talk about it in the video world rather than the still world. Although I think a lot of people loved it as a still camera, especially with manual lenses too, because it was compact. The L-mount takes a lot of different adapters, so you can basically put any lens on it, which was really cool. How did this come about? What was this idea?
It's a long story. So here we are with the BF. That's why we have a long video. I think it was 2022-2023 time frame when we started the project. I was wondering what kind of camera we should offer to the customers next. And also, I was concerned about the future of the camera market. Right now, the camera market is quite strongly supported by the camera fans and photo enthusiasts, which I appreciate. But on the other hand, it's true that the camera market has been shrinking a lot. In the last 12 to 13 years, the camera market hit the peak in 2012-2013. Back then, the number of cameras shipped to the market was about 20 million units per year globally. But right now, it's below 7 million a year. So the market has shrunk to about one-third.
Was it this year or last year it stabilized, it even grew slightly? Is that correct?
Yes. These last two years, it seems that it hit the bottom. It's growing again. But compared to 12 to 13 years ago, the market size is about one-third. But the market size in terms of value or money, the average price is about three times higher than the prices back then.
I guess part of that might be because all the point-and-shoots, those sort of sub-$300, sub-$500 point-and-shoots, those have left the market, or those don't even count in the calculation?
No, no, it's not counted. I just talk about interchangeable lens system cameras, which are digital SLRs or mirrorless cameras. So the average price has gone up about by 3x. And still, camera fans and photo enthusiasts are supporters, which again I really appreciate. But it's also true that many, many people stopped using cameras and are taking photos with smartphones. So I'm thinking what we can do for those people. And through conversations with many people, I personally knew that many people are still interested in cameras as a device. They couldn't find the right camera for them to buy. Sometimes maybe the camera is too big. It's not appropriate to bring it every day. The current cameras are great. There are many great cameras from many manufacturers and they're great devices to capture sports photography, wildlife photography, studio photography. I knew that people are looking for a camera they can use daily, every day. While I was thinking about the future of cameras from Sigma, I got the idea of an everyday system camera for creative people or creative minds. So I first set the concept of the camera as an everyday system camera for creative people.
And so when you say everyday, you literally mean this is something that you go out to work or to wherever every day, and you just have it with you?
Yeah, yeah. During COVID, we couldn't go out. But in Japan, there was no quite hard lockdown. We could go out, but we tried not to go to the office or crowded areas. But I could go for a walk. I could walk around my house. And at that time, I took my camera every day in the morning and went for a walk and took pictures every day. And I realized that once you have the camera in your hands, you try to find a nice, beautiful scene, especially in the morning, you know, light comes at a low level, right? And it makes everything beautiful. So I realized that having a camera in my hands stimulates my own little creative mind. And then I wanted to create such a camera which is more focused on that kind of purpose. And then I gave a pitch of that idea to our designer and also the engineering team. And then we started the project.
Did you always imagine it to be this sort of shape, like this sort of format?
Well, that's what the designer should do. And as CEO of the company, I try not to say something about design. I know several examples, not my company but outside, even if the designer comes up with a nicely designed product—I'm not talking about cameras, but in general—sometimes the CEO or some executives give some ideas for improvement, which affect the total design of the product. So I try not to say anything about design. But in order to bring the camera every day, and also, I did want to make a camera that has a timeless value. For example, maybe 10 years later or 20 years later, I wanted to make a camera that people still own. Sigma made that camera 20 years ago, which was quite interesting, quite beautiful. To create such a camera, I believe the camera must be simple, minimal, small, compact, and elegant. I gave some wish list to the designer.
Did you give any models from the past that inspired you? Or items from the past from other designers or other companies that inspired you?
That's a good question. Actually, I did not have anything that gave me inspiration as to the design of the BF. But conceptually, I thought about Camera Obscura, which is the origin of the camera. The camera obscura means, as you know, dark box in Latin. When you create a totally new camera, I try to go back to the history of the camera, or I like to think about what's the origin of the camera, what's the role of the camera. I realized that the camera was originally just a box, a dark box. So I got the idea of the design concept, which I call the modern-day Camera Obscura. Based on that concept, our designer created this design. I like many classic cameras, so it may have influenced a lot.
So I'm going to go a little deeper into the weeds here. The interface of the camera is very interesting, and it's pretty different from most cameras. One thing I do like is that it has a little extra window that really reminds you of all film cameras, having a little status window. But it helps a lot when it comes to controlling the camera. What brought you to this point, wanting to simplify everything down like this? Is this like a continuation of the Camera Obscura, or is it more like a continuation of how people use their phones these days? Because when you use the camera on your phone, a lot of times you're just adjusting exposure compensation and that's it.
