We design and fly airplanes. There are very few countries in the world that can do that. And we're very lucky as Canadians we can do it from A to Z. We can design an airplane, build it here, and we know how to fly it. There are about five countries in the world that can do it from the beginning.
Welcome to Speaking of Business, conversations with Canadian innovators, entrepreneurs, and leaders. I'm Goldie Haider, president and CEO of the Business Council of Canada. I often talk on this podcast about Canadian champions. How can we build more homegrown companies that can compete with the best in the world? If there's a playbook, it might be found at Bombardier. Just think about the innovation that has come out of the Montreal-based company for more than 80 years. It started by revolutionizing winter travel with the snowmobile. In the 1970s, Bombardier moved into train travel at a time when mass transit was burgeoning in North American cities. And now it's on the forefront of aviation. Go to any airport in the world and you're likely to see a Bombardier jet. The innovation, research, and development that keeps Bombardier on the cutting edge happens right here in Canada. That translates into thousands of high-paying Canadian jobs and billions of dollars contributing to Canada's GDP. I don't think there's anyone prouder of Bombardier's success than its president and CEO, Éric Martel. Welcome to the podcast, Eric.
Yeah, thank you, Goldie. Have me here. It's so good to have you here.
We know each other well, so I know that I want to drill down to a number of issues that you care about. But let's start first and foremost with you personally. You know, I love reading the fact that seems kind of cliché given your running Bombardier, but you wanted to be a pilot.
Yeah, I wanted to. It's a good question. What happened? Maybe just to give you a bit of context: I come from a very modest environment. When I was a teenager, I was in the cadets. I will always say that this was probably as important as going to regular school. I learned a lot there. This is where I had my first leadership experience. I went during my summer job, we were all in the cadets, I went to summer camp, and then at the end of my high school I said, 'What do I do?' So I registered to go to military college because I wanted to be a pilot. Unfortunately, in those years, back to the 80s, my eyes were not strong enough, and they said unfortunately it's not going to happen. I was disappointed, devastated to be honest. I decided not to join the army. I changed my plan and went to Laval University. I'm an electrical engineer, so that's the reason why I'm not a pilot today, but I'm in the aerospace business.
You're in the aerospace business. I want to ask you more about that, but first you just mentioned how cadets were influential from a perspective of leadership. Tell me what you learned as a back then about leadership.
This is an amazing opportunity when you're a teenager. First of all, you're still learning about yourself, you don't know who you are completely. I was exposed at 13 years old to be in front of a class and teaching kids my age. Then you go to summer camp and you're responsible for 50 kids, 30 kids. I ended up being the master chief of the camp in Valcartier. I was 18 years old responsible for 2,000 people. I learned a lot about myself, about what it is to be a leader. I made mistakes and that was okay. I learned from it. I always said even if I have a bad leader in front of me, I need to learn from that because sometimes you have bosses and you think they are terrible, but you learn what you don't want to do to your people. People are very important as you become a leader. This was as important as going to school to learn about my ability to be a good leader.
I think we discount how important early childhood and early experiences in life are. You mentioned that you failed. Can you think of the lessons you learned from that?
It gives me perspective. There are things that I learned about not doing. When you become a leader, especially when you're young, you want to put your authority in place. That's the worst thing to do. You learn that later. But it gave me an edge because when I started my career, my first job as a supervisor at Procter & Gamble on the shop floor, I already knew a bit about leadership. It went very well. Just a couple of years later I was a plant manager, not even 30, with a thousand people under my responsibility. Managing a group of 50 professionals in an office is different from managing people in different time zones and cultures. The sooner you learn that the more helpful it is later in your career.
Speaking of career, you mentioned you were at Procter & Gamble for a while. How did you make your way into Bombardier? When did that happen?
Procter & Gamble decided to close the plant. I went to Kraft for a couple of years, fantastic experience. I learned so much. I love managing. I was a production supervisor working three shifts—night, day, afternoon—and also a project engineer on the shop floor. I love the manufacturing environment. I ended up in aerospace at Pratt & Whitney Canada a few years later, then worked at Rolls-Royce, and then joined Bombardier. I was at Bombardier for 15 years. I ran the whole operation on the train side at the beginning. A lot of people think I was always in aerospace, but I went to trains. They asked me to come back to aerospace after many years. Then I left and went to manage Hydro-Québec for about five years and came back as CEO of Bombardier.
Since you've come back, you've really been pushing the envelope on a number of things, particularly in aviation innovation. Talk to me about where Bombardier is today in its journey.
Innovation has always been in the DNA of our company. That's how we got created. We are problem solvers. Joseph-Armand Bombardier 80 years ago invented the snowmobile trying to solve a problem: one of his kids passed away because he couldn't get to the hospital during a winter storm. He was a brilliant mechanical engineer and decided to invent the snowmobile so that wouldn't happen again. That's how it started. We are problem solvers trying to improve people's lives with technology. Today we do probably one of the most significant things for an engineer: we design and fly airplanes. There are very few countries that can do that. We're lucky as Canadians we can do it from A to Z. We make the flagship of the industry, the Global 7500. It flies further, higher, faster than anything else, and the quality of the interior is made here. We should be very proud. I fly a lot because we're exporters. We create jobs in Canada—33,000 to 34,000 jobs with our suppliers—but we export almost everything we do. I'm proud when I land at any airport in the world and see a Bombardier jet.
I mentioned Canadian champions. There's this cultural thing in Canada that we sometimes like to rip down the successful. But I'm not sure Canadians feel that way anymore. I sometimes call this the BlackBerry phenomenon—everybody knew BlackBerry was Canadian. Do you feel that Bombardier is in that place now where Canadians are rooting for it?
I think more and more. We had our years with challenges. Today people understand we're an autonomous business. We haven't had any government funding in the last five years. I have a loan of $200 million that I need to reimburse, and the government will make money out of it. It's much less costly than trying to attract foreign investment. Our competition is heavily subsidized in their home countries, especially through defense. U.S. and French companies develop innovation sponsored by defense and then put it on civil airplanes. They have a huge advantage. We're proud today that we're autonomous, but there's something to think about for our country. We have amazing people and innovation. The question is how do we help small businesses grow to become the next champion. An ecosystem is needed to take them to the next step. We're good at research and coming up with ideas, but taking them to national champion status is not our best right now.
You mentioned talent. How important is access to talent for your business and for growth?
It's absolutely bread and butter. We're fortunate to be in Montreal with many universities, and Toronto as well where we have a significant operation. We can attract top-quality engineers for our business, which is at the top of technology. Building an airplane is not easy; otherwise all countries would do it. We've done a good job as a country having schools and programs available. In Montreal, the number of students per population is one of the highest in North America. That's key. But the part where we need to improve is how to help those with great ideas go to the next step and get their businesses going.
You're proudly Canadian, based mostly in Quebec, with roots in rural Quebec where the snowmobile came from. I hadn't heard that story about the tragedy turned into solution. You could be anywhere. How do you explain Bombardier's commitment to Canada?
Through our history, we've had occasions to go elsewhere. Other governments have approached us. But the family that still controls the company is proud of being here. They wanted to keep the head office here, keep the jobs here. We sell only 2-3% of our airplanes in Canada; everything else is exported. We are a top 10 exporter. Of the 18,000 jobs, about 12,000-13,000 are in Canada. The rest support service centers. We have one plant in Mexico and one in the US, but the main jobs are here.
Let's talk about how we foster more Bombardiers—the innovation ecosystem, the need for an industrial policy, and defense. How do you see Canada positioning itself?
Defense is something we used to do as a country but have lost over the years. Today we prefer to buy off-the-shelf products. There's a possibility to work better with defense and industry, asking what we need as a country in 5, 7, 10 years. We have smart people not just at Bombardier but in an ecosystem. Why don't we get together and solve problems? That dialogue was not existing two years ago but started in the last six months. We need to do more of that.
In business, you have regulations, government, industrial policy. How do you see the ideal relationship between Bombardier and the federal government?
There's a fine line. Politicians are elected to represent people, but we represent people too—our employees and customers are voters. We need to connect and understand how to make this country successful. It's not about me or just my company. We should have continuous dialogue with champions in this country like Bombardier, CGI, Shopify. I feel today the government does its stuff and business does its stuff separately. We would have more value by working together. It's not about managing each other's business; it's about managing a country. It should be a partnership to create more jobs and value.
