President of the Management Board (CEO), LPP S.A., Cropp (brand of LPP S.A.)
Podcast WYWIAD Z PREZESEM | Piechocki, LPP: Nie chcę pokazywać twarzy, aby normalnie żyć
To nie same pieniądze nie pozwalają normalnie żyć, ale obecność wizerunku w mediach. To powoduje, że każdy bardzo łatwo Cię rozpoznaje, wszyscy Cię obserwują, pokazują palcem, czujesz się śledzony – w rozmowie z Cezarym Szymankiem mówi Marek Piechocki, współtwórca i współwłaściciel LPP SA, która stoi za takimi markami jak Reserved, Cropp czy Mohito. Sam o sobie mówi, że jest raczej milionerem, niż miliarderem, że radość w życiu daje mu rodzina, i że jest twardym, ale sprawiedliwym szefem. Daję sobie jeszcze około 10 lat, a potem owe budowanie dużej, polskiej, rodzinnej firmy przejmą moje dziec...
About Marek Piechocki
Marek Piechocki, president of LPP, discussed the company’s 30-year history and growth in a 2022 podcast, saying that the need for constant change was “the only constant thing” and describing his early role negotiating with suppliers and inspecting factories. He also spoke about his management approach, stating that he considers himself “a slave of my best managers” and that he prioritises paying employees well so they feel secure and can focus on their work. In earlier interviews, Piechocki explained his preference for avoiding public visibility, saying he does not show his face in media “in order to live a normal life.” He stated that during the COVID-19 pandemic LPP would not pay dividends in 2020 in
Transcript (98 segments)
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Cezary Szymanek0:00
Welcome to Rzeczpospolita's broadcast. This is an interview with the president. Let me introduce Marek Piechocki, co-owner of LPP and co-founder of Reserved, Cropp, and other brands.
Millionaire or billionaire? I suppose it doesn't really matter, but I'm asking anyway. I'm not counting, I'm serious. But in reality, he's a poor man because he's already transferred everything to a foundation and isn't the owner anymore. So if you look closely, there's really not much there. Before our conversation, before recording, we agreed we'd be on a first-name basis.
There's one more question that probably comes up in every interview: why do you never want to show your face?
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Marek Piechocki1:06
Listen, simply so I can live normally. So I can take the train like today, arrive, pay money. It's not the money per se, but having your image in the media means everyone recognizes you very easily. Whether you're on public transport, sitting anywhere in a restaurant, and then everyone suddenly watches you, points at you. You just feel more observed.
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Cezary Szymanek1:35
You can't. You can't ride public transportation? Do you ride without fail?
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Marek Piechocki1:37
Absolutely. What's more, what I ride is Uber.
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Cezary Szymanek1:40
Uber? Out of certainty or habit?
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Marek Piechocki1:42
Out of habit. At my age, it's hard to change—Uber has only existed for about two years, I think. It's the habit of counting every penny, looking at it from both sides before spending. That's become my pattern.
I always try to act pragmatically, so to speak, or economically. I take the train from Gdańsk to Warsaw for 77 złoty—it's comfortable, pleasant, and pragmatically economical.
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Cezary Szymanek2:18
Do you have the same approach with your employees—paying them a little less, perhaps?
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Marek Piechocki2:21
No, no. When it comes to wages, I truly believe that's the foundation I must give people so they feel calm and secure about supporting their families, so they don't have to think or scheme about finding a better job elsewhere.
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Cezary Szymanek2:43
What is the average salary at LPP?
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Marek Piechocki2:47
It depends on the sectors, on the areas. But it keeps changing. The best people stay with us. If someone is very good, it's my problem how to satisfy them—financially, and also their need for professional self-fulfillment.
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Cezary Szymanek3:03
How much can a very good person earn per month?
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Marek Piechocki3:05
Again, it depends on the position. If we're talking about store positions, they certainly won't earn tens of thousands. If we're talking about management positions, there are different rates. Everyone earns different money on different positions. But I'm convinced we pay better than the market, precisely so people don't waste energy thinking about finding a better-paid job, and instead focus on building a better company.
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Cezary Szymanek3:37
How many people would be affected if they were earning minimum wage?
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Marek Piechocki3:41
You know what, I think in our stores we have students or assistant salespeople—although even there, it's above minimum wage. There's no minimum wage. There are employment contracts or so-called 'junk contracts.' The majority are employment contracts. As for junk contracts, we finished with those a long time ago. However, there is a certain group of students who actually say they don't want to transition to employment contracts. It's more complicated than it seems—there are young people who say they only want temporary work. Let's treat it as a launchpad into a new business environment, including the junk contracts issue. We'll come back to that.
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Cezary Szymanek4:23
But let's stay with money for now and your approach to it. What is your attitude toward money?
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Marek Piechocki4:32
Money doesn't matter to me at all. Why do I do what I do? To show people outside that we Poles do things cooler than they often think. The outside world, Western Europe, the world in general often perceives us as still stuck behind the Iron Curtain—not that developed. Many are surprised when we arrive with our ideas, our stores.
Many were shocked. The Germans, for example, when they first heard we have 1,700 stores, many simply jumped up in surprise—how is that possible? They didn't know us. I think I do it more to show the world that we Poles aren't worse than our partners or competitors from Western Europe. We do things just as well, and many times perhaps better.
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Cezary Szymanek5:25
Surely there's also some element of healing your own internal complexes, which you mentioned after communism. I wanted to ask about that—is this a way to heal some complexes?
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Marek Piechocki5:35
I worked in Germany—you probably read about it—studied and worked there part-time in 1985-87. We were always treated as the second category there. But I think the whole country was treated that way too. I think that's gradually changing now. All of Europe sees Poles as hardworking, reliable, and so on. But we're still somewhat in the shadow—within this country, all our companies are small. When people look at LPP and call it a giant, it irks me because we're actually a small company. On the European market, we're only number 27. It's like being seventh in a ski jump competition—you don't know who that is after the top three. We're a shark in our little pond, but looking at the European or global market, we're quite small.
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Cezary Szymanek6:46
Let's get back to these complexes—what is this healing of complexes about? Was it something that used to exist but not so much today?
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Marek Piechocki6:48
Today I think we don't have those complexes anymore. Often foreign companies come to visit our distribution centers and are very impressed. PEPCO from Germany announced a reference visit because they want to see how we do logistics. That's a certain kind of satisfaction—PEPCO is one of the biggest companies in Germany in our industry. If you walk around Berlin, Munich, or anywhere, they're one of the largest clothing sellers. And when their entire board comes to see how we do things, that's a source of satisfaction for us.
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Cezary Szymanek7:31
Does this compensate somewhat for those communist times, for example?
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Marek Piechocki7:39
No, I don't compensate. I can truly say that I was a fairly young person—I was lucky. In 1989, I was about 28 years old, full of enthusiasm, energy, and drive, and the market only then allowed me to develop.
Sometimes when people ask me why I keep developing the company, I think that with greater scale, it became partly about healing complexes. But initially, it was a strong aversion to working in those corrupted communist state enterprises, where you had to either join the party or become a stool pigeon to achieve something.
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Cezary Szymanek8:21
Were you in the party?
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Marek Piechocki8:24
No, I was never in the party. I wasn't even in the Polish Students' Specialized Association or anything like that. I was always far from politics, far from power. I was too much of a nobody for anyone to bother recruiting me.
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Cezary Szymanek8:41
Were you registered by the secret police? Were you listed anywhere?
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Marek Piechocki8:45
No. No, I wasn't listed in any registry. I was too insignificant for anyone to take an interest. But anyway, coming back to that—the company was born out of an aversion to working in those broken communist enterprises. I wanted to do something of my own, to change the world, simply.
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Cezary Szymanek9:10
When you talked about proving something to yourself, making amends—how do you do that now? Let me be direct—do you spend money on any extravagances?
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Marek Piechocki9:28
Everyone spends on some pleasures. The last, most expensive purchase—I'll admit everything—the last expensive thing I bought for myself, with private money, was because I wanted to see how it works. I considered that using company money for it would be wrong, so I paid privately. No invoice.
I have a Mac and wanted to see how it works differently than Windows, so I bought it with my own money. The company has Windows-based computers, and I thought it wouldn't be ethical to buy one with company funds—everyone would suddenly want Macs. Our main designers use Macs, but regular employees use Windows systems. So I bought that computer with my own money.
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Cezary Szymanek10:27
An iPad is the most expensive thing?
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Marek Piechocki10:32
Exactly. I have weaknesses, as anyone does. I have a weakness for vinyl records—I have expensive audio equipment. There's also the bicycle—I have a very nice bicycle. No yachts, though. I have a company car, an Audi A7—I had one before and have one now. It's a very good car, I'm happy with it. But I live by the principle that I can't really afford it because the moral cost would be too high.
A car I like very much is the Maserati GranTurismo, but when I drove through Sopot in one, everyone pointed at me, everyone stared. I don't want that—it's too high a moral cost for me. Financially, I could buy a new Maserati every day, but that's not the point.
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Cezary Szymanek11:57
What exactly are you embarrassed about then? It seems like you're ashamed of your own money?
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Marek Piechocki12:02
No, no—I'm not ashamed. Why should I be? I'm not ashamed of anything I've done or anything I have. Everything was earned with my own hard work. I have the good fortune that I never privatized any state enterprises, never took over any state firms, had no contracts with state-connected companies. Everything I achieved, I fought for with the customer, with my own hands. I'm not ashamed of any of that. The only thing is what I told you—I don't use luxury things because they create barriers between me and society. I'd rather fly normal airlines—Wizz Air, Ryanair—to London or anywhere.
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Cezary Szymanek12:58
But you fly to London where you have a store on Oxford Street?
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Marek Piechocki13:02
Absolutely. Gdańsk has the best budget airline connections—Ryanair. I fly like people like you fly.
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Cezary Szymanek13:12
Meaning like other millionaires or billionaires—very wealthy people, let's call them that.
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Marek Piechocki13:27
Some probably perceive me as an oddball, and that's true. But the thing is, I don't impose my lifestyle on anyone. I don't tell anyone to live like me. Everyone is the master of their own fate. I don't flaunt it or make a show of it. I live normally, like a normal person. I say: let me live normally. Let me choose and do what I want. I want to live like this, and I'm super satisfied. I have my next goals, ventures, ideas, and I say: leave me alone, let me live normally.
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Cezary Szymanek14:12
So living well, according to Marek Piechocki, means?
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Marek Piechocki14:19
Living well means fulfilling your dreams. Being able to wake up in the morning, look in the mirror, and say honestly: I'm not ashamed of everything I did yesterday or over the past years. I didn't deceive anyone, I didn't cheat anyone. I can look in the mirror and into the eyes of those I sometimes had to fire. Of course, they may have grievances against me, but I always gave everyone a fair chance. I always said: improve, change—you have six months or a year. If you don't change, I'd say: sorry, but we have to part ways. We set clear terms of the game. And that's what allows you to sleep peacefully, to hug yourself peacefully in the morning and look in the mirror without a guilty conscience.
And if on top of that you do what you love—I repeat to everyone: I have a monthly meeting with new employees. At the end, we always talk about the company culture. Simple things—don't deceive, behave fairly. Sometimes these are young people, buyers going to suppliers with five million dollars to spend. They might want to act superior, but I tell them: you must not do that. Treat everyone the way you want to be treated. I have 2,800 people working at headquarters alone.
I can't guarantee for everyone, but I tell each person: if you feel someone in the company is treating you differently, here's my email, here's my phone number, anyone can write to me. We have an independent ethics commission that can hear such cases. So everyone knows this is the company's culture. Of course there have been cases where someone behaved improperly, but then we have this internal ethics commission where people can report—anonymous or directly, by email—when someone is behaving incorrectly. Then we immediately start investigating what's happening in that department, why it's happening.
I also have annual climate surveys in every department. If a department's survey comes back poorly, we look closely at what's going on, because you can't run any department well without a good atmosphere. People must be satisfied with what they do.
But coming back to your question—what makes a person happy? When people do things that bring them joy. Even when young people come to work for us, I tell them: you must do what you love. If you don't enjoy it, I encourage you to find another position within the company, or even to leave, because if you're frustrated, the negative spiral grows.
Part of our life satisfaction comes from doing what we do, realizing our passions. I do things I enjoy, and that's why I'm a happy person.
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Cezary Szymanek17:53
Besides work, which you enjoy, what else gives you joy in life?
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Marek Piechocki18:02
Family. Family gives me great joy. I have four children, I have grandchildren. The children are another challenge—whether I can, because the company is at a reasonably large scale by Polish standards, but on the European scale, let's not deceive ourselves—it's still relatively small.
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Cezary Szymanek18:25
Let's not run away from this—let's go back to the business.
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Marek Piechocki18:30
For me, the next challenge is that the entire capital I've transferred to the foundation—that my children will continue to develop it, that they will realize themselves in various areas. Of course, they want to do it themselves. Some have declared they want to, some haven't yet. In the end, they have to be happy.
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Cezary Szymanek18:53
You have four children—how many have declared they want to continue?
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Marek Piechocki18:55
Two have declared. A daughter is still studying, and there's another young person still studying. They're still on their development path.
We have a rule: if someone from the family wants to work in the company, they must first work for three years at an external company where their name means nothing—to prove they're even capable of working at our company. People think family members immediately become directors or executives. Let me tell you, it's actually harder that way. One of my sons worked for three years at Citibank—he was a manager, had about 40 people reporting to him. At some point I asked him: do you want to continue your career in banking, or do you think about coming to LPP and trying clothing retail?
He said: it's a good idea. But do you realize that means starting at the bottom—you'll be a buyer's assistant, then a salesperson in a store, then you'll grow, and we'll see. He went for it. He was an assistant buyer for a year, then worked in a store for three months in London, then ran his own store here in the Tricity area. Now he's responsible for two of our brands—the product side for both brands. He's growing. We'll see what happens next.
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Cezary Szymanek20:24
Are you spoiling your children?
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Marek Piechocki20:30
I don't think so. Actually, I was just talking with Przemek about this—I don't think I'm spoiling them. I have a firm hand when it comes to upbringing. If they wanted anything in their life, they first had to contribute their own portion, and then Dad could chip in.
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Cezary Szymanek21:00
So you couldn't simply give four wheels, so to speak?
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Marek Piechocki21:08
No, that would have been highly uneducational. I could have, but I would have ruined my children. I can tell you that one of them once wanted to go on vacation somewhere in Europe, and their first cars were ten-year-old Golfs—because that's all they could afford. But you could have afforded better ones? Yes, I could have afforded new Mercedeses, but that would have been uneducational for them. My agreement with the children was that they should never count on receiving anything from me. I always told them to think for themselves, to get an education. They knew that I might go bankrupt and nothing would be left. But it turns out something will remain.
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Cezary Szymanek22:20
Did they ever come to you and say: father, give us money? Didn't they say: you won't take that money with you to the grave?
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Marek Piechocki22:27
It's probably been about 45 years since I started with my partners meeting, and it turns out something will remain. They were surprised that they would actually receive something, that they would be beneficiaries of the foundation. I'd thought about giving it all to charity or distributing it somewhere. They were raised with the sense that they would never have anything from it.
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Cezary Szymanek22:55
You don't give money away?
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Marek Piechocki22:59
I give a lot away. How much is a lot? As a company, we spend several million per year on various charitable causes. We try to think locally first—around ourselves—on the Pomeranian region, children's homes, various kinds of...
For this type of venture, we contribute a lot. I feel a sense of responsibility and conviction that I owe something to this country. Personally, it's a burden that I should first help nearby, which is why I focus more on the local Polish market than on other countries. We are still too poor as a country; we need to think about ourselves, about Poles. I come from a small town, Kościerzyna, with 25,000 people, and I know what it's like 5 kilometers away in a village like Skorzewo. The educational opportunities for children there compared to big cities are different, and I deeply believe we should first help Poland grow. Poles still earn four times less than people in Western Europe, and education levels are lower, so I'm focused on Poland. When you help, do you give money or throw a fishing rod? From the beginning, since many young people work with us, I've tried to engage them in various activities, like painting hospitals or organizing rooms. The company provides the money, and young people contribute their passion, engagement, and time. This type of activity unites us all.
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Cezary Szymanek27:32
So, to put a point on it: what kind of boss is Marek Piechocki?
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Marek Piechocki27:39
Once, one of my colleagues said I'm like hardware, meaning I'm probably a bit tough. I'm not easy, but most entrepreneurs aren't. I try excessively to ensure fairness. I believe that if everyone feels treated equally, it's paramount for the company's well-being, even though it's impossible to be 100% fair. This lack of fairness is a source of social conflicts, and the same applies to companies. Everyone can endure harder or easier conditions when they feel others are in the same boat.
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Cezary Szymanek28:04
How do you react if, for example, one of your employees drives up to the company in a brand-new Maserati?
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Marek Piechocki28:08
His money, his business. He earned it honestly, so he can spend it as he wishes. There are strange situations, but my approach is that I respect individual choices. I remember once, we were with a group visiting new stores, and during breakfast, one of our construction coordinators was so happy he bought Zepter pots, probably spending his entire salary. I thought, 'Holy cow, I'd never spend that much on pots,' but then I realized it's his dream, and he works hard to afford what he wants. If we all work hard to fulfill our dreams or whims, there's no problem. So, if someone comes in a certain car, it's their business.
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Cezary Szymanek29:18
So, back to what kind of boss you are, what kind of person are you, Rafał?
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Marek Piechocki29:20
As I said, fairness is paramount for me to ensure everyone feels treated equally. While it's impossible to guarantee 100%, fair treatment of all is crucial for the company's good atmosphere. This lack of fairness is a source of conflicts, and it's the same in companies. Everyone can endure conditions when they feel others are in the same boat.
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Cezary Szymanek30:05
Don't you have someone in the company like Scrooge?
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Marek Piechocki30:09
That's hard to say because when you think we're building a distribution center for 860 million, spent 196 million on another one, and have architecture projects costing 60 million euros over two years, it's difficult to label someone as Scrooge. Considering we spend 760 million on building stores that support local craft businesses, it's hard to call me a miser.
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Cezary Szymanek30:52
You're a patriot, aren't you, especially a local one?
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Marek Piechocki30:56
I suppose I'm an economic patriot. I distanced myself from saber-rattling patriotism. I'm more of a positivist creator, working at the foundations. My patriotism is expressed in thinking locally within society, and 'local' can extend beyond Gdańsk to Pomerania, the whole country, and even paying taxes only in Poland. Last year, we paid 900 million in various taxes, which are obligations living in this country. The marshal of the voivodeship invited me, and I learned we're among the top three taxpayers there. We're from this country, and I owe something to this society and country. Despite difficulties, I see opportunities here. I earned this money here, and while half now comes from abroad, the first half still comes from Poland. My children grew up here, and I'm grateful to this country.
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Cezary Szymanek33:18
Wouldn't you like to go into politics? You absolutely distanced yourself from it.
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Marek Piechocki33:21
Absolutely not. We have two rules at LPP: we've always been distant from politics and religious denominations. Over the years, many have tried to approach us, but everyone in the political world has learned that Piechocki is completely apolitical. The only thing you can get from him is a nice shirt and store vouchers. Even when President Wałęsa visited, we helped with a shirt issue, but that's all. Our support for politicians ends there. Others are good at politics; we're good at what we do. We want to be completely apolitical and non-denominational. I explain to young people each month that our faith is in sales results. When it comes to politics, we're interested in foreign policy for sales in Russia, Czechia, Ukraine. Privately, everyone has their beliefs and denominations, but within LPP, we focus energy on business, not internal political or religious debates.
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Cezary Szymanek35:32
Since we're talking about apolitical and faith aspects, is the company tolerant?
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Marek Piechocki35:41
We must be tolerant. I always try to treat others as I'd like to be treated. We've worked with China for years, and I was upset when some employees treated Chinese as inferior, but they're often better educated. Today, we have people from many countries: the main artistic director is Japanese, and we have British, Korean, Brazilian, Russian, Ukrainian employees, and others from where we have stores. We see them all as equally good, regardless of country, denomination, or sexual orientation. In our industry, fashion has many men with different orientations, like famous designers, and we treat them equally. I wouldn't want to manifest any particular direction with flags—no rainbow flag, no religious flag—because I believe in treating everyone equally without public displays.
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Cezary Szymanek36:49
If there was a need for a rainbow flag in the company, would you?
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Marek Piechocki36:54
I'd prefer not to manifest any specific direction, even though I support tolerance and equality. The fashion industry naturally includes people with different orientations, and we treat them all equally. I'm not against manifestation, but I wouldn't hang any flags, as we focus on business unity.
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Cezary Szymanek37:43
What advice would you give yourself starting your journey at LPP, knowing what you know now?
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Marek Piechocki37:49
I believe one shouldn't regret anything. We've made many mistakes, especially in the Polish market. Our strength is that when mistakes are made, people aren't penalized; instead, we quickly recover, fix them, and move forward. I've made a tremendous amount of mistakes, but those who don't make mistakes aren't taking enough risks to achieve something. Like in skiing, if you don't fall, you're skiing poorly; you must fall to break barriers and go higher.
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Cezary Szymanek38:47
Who is your external conscience? Who sets you straight or tells you to stop?
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Marek Piechocki38:51
I do self-management, and sometimes we in the board see we've made mistakes. My wife and family are independent and sometimes set me straight. That's what wives are for.
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Cezary Szymanek39:17
What does Marek Piechocki read?
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Marek Piechocki39:20
I read a lot, though perhaps less now. I've always had three categories: management books, many of which I've moved to the company for young people to read; self-development, which wasn't well-known in Poland before; and industry-specific books on fashion retailing. I'm a constant fan of Peter Drucker, the founder of modern management. His books are a must-read and form the basis for many other theories. For turning points, 'The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People' is revolutionary. History also interests me, as you can learn much from it.
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Cezary Szymanek41:01
So, who do you admire?
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Marek Piechocki41:14
I like listening to Drucker; he's so wise it's incredible. I keep returning to his books. Recently, I found a book with 360 daily messages from Drucker. But if I had to choose, there are many decent people. I think Bill Gates made a good impression, much better than Steve Jobs. Jobs was famous, but I don't respect someone who disowns his own children. Gates did something great for technology, and I admire his approach to truth. At a Xerox conference, they admitted both stole the mouse idea. I respect Gates more in terms of fairness, which is important for business.
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Cezary Szymanek42:41
How long will Marek Piechocki be at LPP?
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Marek Piechocki42:44
We have a succession plan. The family meets to discuss what comes after me. When I first mentioned it, my daughter cried, thinking I had cancer, but now everyone knows we must think seriously about the future. We're preparing Marcin, and we have a Plan B if he doesn't succeed. I estimate I should leave within the next ten years, absolutely. I'm 59, and by 69, I shouldn't be there. I don't want my child carrying a bag at 60.
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Cezary Szymanek43:47
What would you say to a young person starting their life adventure, dreaming to reach your point?
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Marek Piechocki44:16
The most important thing is to be aware that it requires great effort, commitment, sacrifice, and time. But I believe if someone wants something, they can achieve it. At LPP, many started as assistant salespeople and now head departments. It demands hard work, determination, and knowing what you want. Then you can achieve great things.
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Cezary Szymanek45:14
Have you thought about becoming a motivational speaker?
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Marek Piechocki45:18
Not at all. I still have much to do in business. But there was a moment around 2002 when we implemented revolutionary software from Retec. The US companies invited me to speak on business class flights to show how we did it in 8 months when Gap struggled for 3 years. I feel LPP is still a small company, and I want my children to continue the family business, not just LPP but also investments in hotels. I want them to build a large Polish family company together, like in Germany, as we're the first generation here with this chance since communism limited businesses. It would be nice to have a Polish family company as a global hallmark.
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Cezary Szymanek47:16
Marek Piechocki, co-founder and co-owner of LPP. Thank you very much.