Hello and welcome to ET Auto. I have with me Mr. Girish Wagh, executive director at Tata Motors, which has also unveiled a new brand positioning and a slew of new products, some of which are ready for production. To tell us more about the larger strategy behind it, the larger game plan, let's hear it from the man himself. Girish, thanks for sparing our time. Morning, morning. So what we have behind us is a Prima 35-ton tipper. You say this has something which is first of its kind in terms of offering as an 8.5-liter engine. What is the thought behind it and how do we see this segment of the trucking industry progressing?
Okay, so I'll first take a step back and give a context of the brand value proposition you referred to. Tata Motors commercial vehicles is a pioneer in the commercial vehicle industry, and the brand is iconic. It is also part of the Tata group's endeavor of nation building. At the same time, young and aspirational India's expectations of customers and other stakeholders are changing. To align with those changing expectations and three mega trends — sustainability, digital and artificial intelligence, and safety — we have decided to improve our offerings in both products and solutions. The core value proposition of 'Better Always' is being resharpened. At this Auto Expo, we have showcased 14 new products and six digital and other solutions that manifest the bold transformation we are undergoing. Among those 14 products, we have six battery electric vehicles, one hydrogen internal combustion engine truck, CNG, LNG, biodiesel, flex fuel — a variety of technologies across trucks, buses, and small commercial vehicles. We are developing a bouquet of offerings for customers to pick and choose from. In commercial vehicles, technology of convenience, including TCO, will decide the winning horse. Coming to this product, it is a high-performance tipper for deep mining, with an 8.2-liter new generation Cummins engine, first time in the world deployed for deep mining, and it comes with a Cummins Eaton automatic transmission. This will change the way deep mining happens in this country.
Right, right. So now more coming to this product that you referred to — this is one of the high-performance tippers we are introducing for deep mining, and as you rightly referred, it is the 8.2-liter new generation Cummins engine, first time in the world deployed for deep mining application, and it also comes with a Cummins Eaton automatic transmission. This is a very new offering for deep mining requirements of the country. How is that segment doing for the industry and for you?
I think mining has been doing well. Of course it is seasonal — in rainy season mining doesn't happen — but otherwise mining as a segment is continuously growing. Looking at the potential, we have developed this product.
All right. And moving on to this one — this is interesting because it goes a little bit contrary to the popular belief that heavy trucks do not make good candidates for battery electric vehicle technology. But you are showcasing this, which is almost production ready. What is the thought? How do you see the heavy trucks segment in India adopting electrification or not subscribing to that megatrend?
That's right. This is a 55-ton prime mover, a tractor. As you rightly said, heavy-duty trucks generally will go towards hydrogen as a fuel for long haul. But even in heavy-duty trucks, there are short-haul usages where battery electric makes sense. We have been working with clients in the steel, cement, and ports industries where heavy tractor electrification makes sense. This vehicle has been piloted in real-life conditions, proven, and is now being launched commercially. It will make sense for sectors looking to reduce their scope three emissions and move toward decarbonization.
And what is your take on the electrification in the M&V industry? There was a policy draft under the PM E-Drive scheme with potential incentives. Is it not good enough for the industry and customers to adopt electric medium and heavy-duty trucks, or does it need more consultation?
At a broad level, in heavy commercial vehicles, all long haul will not be amenable to battery electric as we see it today. So we are exploring hydrogen as a fuel — both in IC engine and fuel cell. But for short-loop travel, even in heavy-duty trucks, battery electric makes sense despite the significant difference in acquisition cost. Coming to PM E-Drive, it is a very welcome incentive scheme and is still being fleshed out. Discussions are happening with the government. Just like FAME, PLI, and other schemes, PM E-Drive will be an important step to help early adopters who are looking at zero-emission trucks to decarbonize their scope three emissions.
All right. What we have a little bit away from us is the H2 ICE version heavy truck, and that is more practical as of now. This is the low-hanging fruit in the bouquet of offerings toward the end goal of carbon neutrality. Do you see the trucking industry being more comfortable adopting H2 ICE technology?
Globally, the number of battery electric vehicles is quite significant now, so BEV technology has reached a good level of development. But for heavy-duty long haul, battery has limitations due to range and weight. Hydrogen is being explored with two technologies: fuel cell and hydrogen internal combustion engine. The government is aware and has come up with a hydrogen pilot as part of the Hydrogen Mission. We are happy that Tata Motors has been awarded the first pilot under this mission. We will work with IOCL, which will set up the hydrogen dispensing infrastructure, and we will operate this vehicle on three routes: Delhi-NCR, Ahmedabad-Rajkot, and Mumbai-Pune, also looking at Jamshedpur-Kalinganagar. This pilot will run over 12 to 18 months, capturing data for OEMs and the fuel dispensing company, which will determine the commercial rollout plan.
Now coming to this one — you have the flex fuel version of the Ace. This year is a landmark year as the industry moves toward the eventual goal of flex fuel, encouraged by the government with the E20 regulation from April 1st. Tell us about the road to flex fuel — how feasible is it in the Indian context? There are viewpoints that it contributes to carbon neutrality, but because of its lower calorific value compared to gasoline, there is a compromise in fuel efficiency that needs to be addressed for adoption.
The larger goal the government has already laid out. While petroleum products are fully imported, ethanol is locally produced, so it is a significant import substitution and helps save forex. The government is moving in that direction and the industry has started working on it. In cars, there is more work happening on petrol engines. In our portfolio, the Ace is sold with a gasoline variant, and in line with the government's direction we have started working on a flex fuel variant. It will take a few years to be commercially launched, but we are in a good state to proceed with development and push for commercial launch. Beyond that, the industry can do little to compensate for the difference; policy support will be necessary to make it at par with gasoline adoption in commercial vehicles. Gasoline has very little penetration in commercial vehicles; we were the first to bring this vehicle with gasoline during the BS6 transition as a low-price offering. The government is evaluating options and will come up with the right interventions when required.
Talking about gasoline, what is the penetration level of gasoline in your Ace portfolio, for example?
