CMO Spotlight | Patricia Corsi - Bayer Consumer Health [FULL]

It's great to be here. Thank you very much for having me.

Of course. I'm very happy to be with Bayer since 2019. It's almost three and a half years. Bayer Consumer Health is the more consumer-related health products from Bayer. Of course we have the pharmaceutical division, and we have products like Aspirin in the US, One A Day, Claritin, Miralax, outside of the amazing brands like Canesten and Bepanthen. In reduction, we are in multiple categories actually. We are in seven different categories, from cough and cold to allergies, from dermatology to nutritionals and everything in between. So we are really the first point of contact for people that want to proactively take care of their health on things that are in a daily routine and not in need to go to the doctor or have a more serious treatment.

Okay. So the important starting point: I'm Brazilian. I am very Brazilian from an Italian family, so I'm double Latin, double latte, double Latin. And in the past 13 years, I have lived together with my husband and my son in five different countries, of course in the Americas and then in Europe. I've been really grateful for the opportunities that have been given to have those international opportunities. These are things that are quite unique, especially when you come from Brazil or from Latin America. I started my career actually at Sony, a Japanese-American company, where I had a lot of fun working in the phonographic division. I was the only English-speaking person in the office, so that opened a lot of doors. I think this is something that you don't imagine how much speaking one additional language will benefit you in the future. These are things that now I see my son speaking five different languages. I can only imagine how many doors were opened to him. But I started there, and then I had the opportunity to do a training program at Johnson & Johnson. I worked a couple of years at Kraft before it was Mondelez, and then over a decade at Unilever. With Unilever, I have worked in Brazil, in the UK twice, in the Netherlands, and then after this over a decade, I decided to change industries again because I had worked in the entertaining business, then the pharmaceutical business at Johnson & Johnson, then foods, then at Unilever where I worked in foods, home care, personal care, and then I went to Heineken. In Mexico, their biggest business at the time globally, which was a fantastic experience, especially because I was focusing a lot on the digital part of it: in-housing, precision marketing, in-house creativity, real-time. And then after a couple of years there, we decided that we had enough of the enthusiasm and some of the bad things in Latin America as well, and we decided to come back to Europe. I have joined Bayer since then in Switzerland, where I sit at the moment, talking to you from Basel.

I don't think I'm going to catch up to him. So I speak Spanish and I speak Italian as well. And my son speaks English, Portuguese, Spanish, French, and German.

He's already not doing great in Portuguese. At home, we only speak Portuguese, but his Portuguese is... it's a very difficult language. You never realize when you're born in a country and everyone speaks that language, you think it's the easiest one around. But when you have to teach it, I think there are a lot of techniques that I don't own. So my son only speaks Portuguese in our house. We only speak Portuguese. We are fully Brazilian, only Portuguese. But his Portuguese would be equivalent to a foreigner going to Brazil and spending a couple of months. So he has an accent when he speaks. It is super cute. He's just 13, so I'm sure this is going to add up to his charm. But I'm not going to add Italian to it for sure.

It rounds you, especially in marketing. It rounds you and your vision of the world. I think one of the most important skills that we have to have in marketing is that ability to understand and empathize with people that are very different than you, to be able to serve them. And I know Brazil is a very diverse country. We had people coming in from all parts of the world. But I was amazed when I started living abroad on how much more diversity exists, and flexing your style, adapting yourself, and having agility to learn, an agility to understand people. I think it's something that helps you to do your job better. So I definitely think I'm better at my job because of those experiences, not just the personal part.

Well, you bring up an interesting point that maybe Brazilians are uniquely well suited for marketing because of the diversity of the country. You have broader perspectives than you might have if you lived in a very homogenous country with only one type of people.

Yeah. So I'm the proud leader of two separate distinct areas. So one is the category area. So in my team, I have the heads of all our seven categories: we have four of them based out of the US, three of them based out of Europe. And then I have the centers of excellence, where we have a marketing center of excellence, a digital center of excellence, a sales customer-centric center of excellence, and we have insights and analytics as well. So these are the things that of course the categories work together with the countries to decide the strategy for the categories, to provide the inputs and really drive the innovation pipeline and plans and everything related to the brand mixes. And the centers of excellence, these are the parts where we really build capabilities and skills for the whole company globally, being sales, digital, or marketing. Additionally to that, from a digital perspective, I have the digital transformation program for all the functions. So if it's marketing, sales, product supply, or R&D, I oversee the whole program. And this is a super exciting opportunity because one of the traps when you have those roles separate is that there is sometimes a dispute or disagreement between the two, and this can hold the plan behind. So there is alignment that needs to be done. I don't need to align with myself between CMO and CDO: it's one person, one budget, and off we go. So I thought that was really, and this was one of the main reasons why I decided to take this opportunity, because I thought it was really an exciting job.

Can I do two?

So I think the first one is general, and the second one is more female-driven or more minority-driven as a Latina woman. The first one is general: make sure that, since very young age, you surround yourself with mentors and sponsors, and you nurture them. And you don't look at them only when you need them, when you feel like you need them. You don't know what you don't know, and there are so many people, when you are a young up-and-coming talent, high potential, there are a lot of people that will be willing to give you advice, to share their experience very generously. Don't be arrogant. Take them and nurture those relationships and care for them. This is something that will really make a difference. I see the benefit of mentoring people, but how much I learned from them as well. Sometimes people don't realize that the mentors learn a lot, the coaches, the supporters. I keep learning and learning. There is one of my mentees that is a super superstar in digital, and the other day said, 'Oh, I need a personal advice. My son is really onto this platform. Do you know how I can help him?' Because you know, a 13-year-old boy, this is part of how I communicate with that, right. So it was one of those things, but it also helps me to keep myself fresh on how to motivate, what are the things that are important for this new generation. It's very different than when I started doing marketing. So this would be the first one. And the second one is, maybe it's a Brazilian thing, but the other day I was talking to another mentee that is from Asia, and she said the same on her home country. Women tend to be sometimes too competitive and not understanding at the beginning of their careers the benefits of collaboration and sisterhood. Maybe because there is this link between men and sports and the things that you do after the office, and women don't quite have that. I think we miss a lot. I am a much better person and as a professional because I have a wonderful set of friends, all women, that are in this journey with me, not competing with me. And we help each other and we care for each other and we celebrate each other along the way. By the way, all of them are Latinas, and it was not by choice, but from different completely different countries, but all from Latin origins. It is something that sometimes I think women have a hard time being vulnerable, saying that they need help. There is this concept of having it all. You can have it all if you have the right people alongside you. And I think this is one thing that I wish I had learned earlier. I don't regret anything because this part got me to where I am and to these wonderful friends that I have that I know have my back any day of the week. And this is something extremely powerful to be able to do the job that we do and to be our best.

Absolutely. And you're absolutely right. This is a concept that I've heard... I don't know, in my 40s it was not that long ago. Why haven't I heard about this before? And it's yeah. I think we have to be objective about it. Women are not as good as men to network, for whatever is the reason. It's how we are raised, and maybe it's a cultural thing. And I think sometimes I've seen people hiding behind, 'Oh, I don't like politics and this and that.' Well, politics is only when you have to do it with people that you don't like. So I think you have to find a way where it's authentic to you and you see the benefit, but you also benefit others because the more you do it, the more people are going to be inspired to do it as well. And whatever you are, I think there is always you have to think about what is the halo effect that you have on the other people that are observing you, that are watching you and following your steps. And as they learn, they will mimic some of the things that you do, good or bad. So I think it's important that you think about the repercussions of your acts as well.

I love this concept of superpower. And my superpower... my superpower is my background, is my Latinity and my enthusiasm and my energy and my presence and my ability to engage people on difficult and exciting stuff, my curiosity. The funny thing is for many years this was seen, and for many women and many men as well that are from Latin origin, this is seen actually as a kryptonite, because if you're too Latino, you're too loud, you're too emotional, you're too this, you're too that, always in the negatives. My emotion is what helps me to really gather people around the mission. But it's interesting how depending on the angle, it comes as a kryptonite when it's supposed to be a superpower. And this ability, I think we were talking before about this adaptability of Brazilian, whatever, whatever I'm placed, I'm able to find myself. And people find it funny that if I'm in India in a taxi, or if I'm in Greece, I always connect with whoever is around me, even if I don't speak the language. I think this is part of the way I've been raised by two very strong interpreters, my grandfather and my father were very, very strong interpreter men, but with a very good ability to read people, understand people, and commitment to the community. So in a way, I'm replicating what I saw them doing.

Yes, I think this is really important. So curiosity is something that I look for in people. I think that ability to be interested, to want to know more, to want to hear more about something, I find it extremely important in this area. Openness is a second one. Not just to accept and learn new concepts, but to accept and understand different people than you. We cannot be great at what we do if we don't have that openness to challenge a little bit the concepts that we've been raised with. There is another one for me that I wouldn't say it's mandatory, but it's something that I admire a lot, that is courage. And it has to do a little bit with living abroad is one act of courage. You step completely outside of your comfort zone, going to a place where you don't speak the language, where people will try to... you know, sometimes find it funny the way you speak, and what you eat is different, the way you behave is different. So I think these are the things that are really important to me. In the office, I don't believe we have different values in the office and at home. At home we are the same. And there is one additional one that is respect. Not respect in a hierarchical way, but respect in a way that it links really well with listening, wanting to understand, seek to understand first before judging. And these are things that we do at home that are really important to us, and I do the same in the office.

Yes.

Very good question. And I think there is some magic to unlock performance, to unlock the power of what we do. I believe in relationships that are transparent, that both put effort to make it long-term. I don't get super excited about doing pitches. I never did. I feel almost like it's a failure. And from both ends, because the responsibilities from both parts, right? So the way we call our partners is we call them strategic partners. And we have not a lot of them; we have decisively chosen the ones that we think are the ones for us to win together. We are good for them, they are good for us. And our goal is to increase our business together. The better we do, the better they do. And this principle of doing well together is very important for us. The other thing that I have implemented is a much stronger communication open line with them. Every three months, a newsletter saying how we are doing in terms of performance, which are the challenges that we have, which are the opportunities that we have. Because these are the only ways that we can really have a connected relationship. If we do relationships only on a briefing-based relationship, we are really not having a relationship; we are having an adult project management engagement. Relationship for me is when they see and I communicate to them our challenges, the things that we need to do differently. Eventually, every once in a while, somebody sends me a WhatsApp saying, 'Look, I have a solution for that problem. Do you want to talk?' And of course I want to talk. So they never received the briefing, but we are connected. They know what we need. So this was a really big transformational change for us in terms of how to manage. I think it was before much more transactional, and now this is really strategic partnership. So when we do four-year review, media review, we really have an honest conversation. What do we need to do to be the best? And there is no defensive behavior because everybody understands that we are in this journey together. And we have one agreement: if we have two evaluations that are really bad, really crap, then we need to change because it's not working for you, it's not working for me, and we both have failed.

Exactly. And it's working well for us so far. We haven't had one case where we had two consistent bad reviews in my time. So I'm excited about that because we also keep growing our business with our partners. They know us, their teams know us, our teams know them. But you know, it's not easy. Every once in a while, it's almost like the relationship needs a bit of a refresh. So something that you cannot just leave it, because then the opportunity, instead of being a trampoline, it ends up being a sofa. And no growth is going to come out of the sofa. The trampoline, yes. So we want more of those, to people see those opportunities as trampoline opportunities, and really to pay attention when they start seeing this too much as a sofa, because this is the time that we need to act.

[Laughter] Absolutely, absolutely.

Yeah, so I'm a big fan of the marketing team being extremely good at the foundation. So I know some people find it boring, and I think the first and foremost important job of a marketer is to dominate the P's. How many, if you already into the 7 P's, or if you are in the 4 old P's, you have to have that domain. If you're not good at proposition, if you don't understand how to write a concept, insight, reason to believe, benefit, you need to get good at that. This is a super important skill and capability because by the way, that insight is going to go into your briefing, so you're never going to be good at the other part if you don't understand that. Pricing is one that I think people very currently are just looking at the research to make the decision for them instead of really understanding how to do strategic pricing. And I think this is one that we are recuperating the art of doing strategic pricing and understanding the benefits, the brand strength, all the opportunities within the market to reach up and to reach down, because there is a great opportunity to do low-income access in health specifically. I think there is a great opportunity for us to be much more available and to increase our availability to consumers that today are not able to reach our products. When we talk about things related to precision and programmatic, we have been working, we have adaptation agencies that work inside our offices. Oliver is one of them. And we have different models in the US and the rest of the world. But this is something for the team to be able to really make the most out of them and their skills and capabilities, they need to be really good at the foundations: communication, promotion, etc. And this is one thing that in the health industry, there was not as much opportunity for marketers to develop as much as if they were in FMCG, because in FMCG, the fast pace gets you to do more stuff, make more mistakes probably, and learn more from mistakes. In consumer health, there is a less amount of launches in the past, less amount of commercials and innovation, therefore you didn't dare to make a mistake, so you are not as bold as you can, so you don't stretch that opportunity. And you make less mistakes, which means that you learn less as well. So there are a couple of things that for me, we need to make sure that first we get all the skills and capabilities in-house. And then for the things that we are okay to collaborate, I am very good in terms of collaborating with other partners. There are things I want to own: the strategic thinking for the categories, I want to own the understanding on brand equity. Now how we do and connect with the consumer, the channels, the mediums, I am very open to collaborate because we don't own the end-to-end channel. And I think sustainability is another area where we need to partner with others to be able to provide solutions. Diversity and inclusion is another one where we partner with others, like the Stereotype Alliance where we partner to really understand. The other thing is we can have those capabilities built up from the inside, but it will take you much longer for us to make an impact. So in this case, we partner with outside and we accelerate our impact.

I will give you one example of each. I will start with one failure. When I was in Mexico, there was an insight, a moment of 'aha' on diversity and inclusion, which really impressed me that in Mexico, even though most of the population is Mexican, there was a high level of discrimination according to the tonality of your skin, because you could be more seen as an indigenous related, a native Mexican, or more European related. And there was a whole set of discriminations if you are more native Mexican. And we had one brand at the time that was called India, and the logo was the representation of this very proud emperor. It was really something that commands admiration, and he was, of course, a native Mexican. And we looked at this: this is the perfect brand. And it was a dark beer. So even the product feature fits. So we said, 'Okay, we are going to use that brand to help stop this judgment and prejudice.' And we had it all done. It was a precious, precious purpose-driven campaign. And I think one week before we launched, the agency that was doing all the preparations, there was something... there was a sentence in Mexico, in Spanish, that was on a t-shirt that we were going to use. And it was something that was very Mexican, but it had to be in the context of a campaign, otherwise it felt like you were cursing people that had darker skin. So it had to be really within a context. And unfortunately, someone at the agency took a picture of the team with the t-shirt; they were all very European white, and they posted it. And it completely blew out. How is it possible? This is so offensive, etc., etc. So it ended up we had an amazing campaign, an amazing program, everything was cancelled because of one thing, because of one wrong move. It was so sensitive. And on purpose, I think my big learning there is because everyone, when they talk about failures on purpose, they remember the PepsiCo Kendall Jenner campaign, handing out Pepsis to solve racial injustice. So I have in my mind the following: it's really tough to do purpose-led campaign because you don't have a 100% rightness on anything. And I have admiration for the ones that try. I think of course you expect a big brand with a lot of resources to have a good cross-check. But you have to try on purpose if it's authentic to you. And if you make a mistake, you apologize and you have to try if it's authentic to you. So that was the one that was a failure. And until today, I have that campaign on my archives, and it will never see the light of day, and it was one of the most beautiful things that we have used, something that I'm really proud to have on my reel, but nobody will ever see.

So that was one. On the other hand, I want to talk about courage. On the other hand, we have a campaign called Vagina Academy. It came from a program that I have called Creative Unleash. When they presented the campaign, immediately I was super excited about that and I said, 'This is a brilliant idea,' etc. And I remember there were a couple of comments like, 'Oh, this is great, but we should take the word 'vagina.'' I said, 'Well, if you think the word 'vagina,' then it's gone. It loses its power.' Exactly, because we have a product for intimate health, and we know that 60% of women would not say the word 'vagina' to their doctors or how they are going to get help. They would not say to the pharmacist. So it had a purpose for that. But of course, in a room full of people that do not have vaginas, it's very uncomfortable, even for me where I come from; I would have my mouth washed with soap. So I felt so strongly about it. There was so much conviction. We have never tested it. And we went and presented to the Brazilian team, and they were as excited as we were about it. And it was an amazing thing that we did. We managed to deliver the equivalent of I think 70,000 classes on health education to women. We have this censored the word 'vagina' on TikTok. So things that you... and now it's becoming a global campaign. But it's the type of courage that you have to have because there was no objective fact that says this is going to be great. So it could be a completely disaster. So I'm really proud of that because of the way the team, the brand team, has embraced this idea, very bold, courageous idea. The local team in Brazil has implemented it like there was no tomorrow, wonderfully well. And of course, our strategic partner AnalogFolk from the UK, they were absolutely outstanding together with TikTok on making this a wonderful, wonderful service for the people that we serve.

There's so many to choose from too. This is super tough. When I was younger, I wanted to work for Toblerone, which I did, so that dream realized. Okay, I'm going to say two brands. Because probably one of them, from a sustainability point of view, people will say thanks. So the first brand that I think it's fantastic is Adidas. I really like this brand. I think what they are doing in terms of modernizing the brand and the collection with Gucci, but also how they're super good with Originals. I think they're fantastic. And I think they really understand their origins, their authenticity. Their campaign about women's sports bras is outstanding. If you haven't seen it, it's something to look at. So this is a brand that I really appreciate having a go at. And another brand that is in a completely different territory is Aston Martin. I love cars. So I know it's not an electric car and all of this, but I love cars. And I think there are a couple of things that I have seen in terms of development of the car industry with some really big brands where there is this craft, this passion for well-done things that I really respect and admire. So things where you have the name of the guy who did the bending craft in the engine. Maybe I'm a bit old style on that, but I like that craftsmanship. And I think marketing is a craft. And when I see the James Bond movies, I'm just thinking, 'Okay, where is the Aston Martin?' And it was very funny because when I was working for Heineken, of course everyone was looking, 'Okay, when is going to be the Heineken moment?' because it's a big partnership. And I was looking, 'When is going to be the next Aston Martin?' Is it a new one? But I would love to... I think this is a brand that has something that sometimes we miss: that care for the experience, care for the details. I think it's a wonderful brand. And I don't ever remember seeing a TV commercial on Aston Martin, for example. But yet it's a brand that's made a very solid imprint in your mind.

Well, currently I'm a bit on the bench because I had a knee surgery, so I'm not doing much. I was doing martial arts before that. But, you know, this is a family tradition. My grandfather was a chef, my father had restaurants, and I cook. And the first thing, it was interesting, when I had the knee surgery, the first thing that I wanted to do when I was standing without crutches was to cook. So I love to cook, and it really refreshes my mind. But I also love to dance. So these are the things that I'm currently really on the bench.

It's a very funny thing that you say. Because I like to cook freestyle. No recipe. And it's my husband gets very upset because normally they look at me to do a four cheese sauce for pasta, and the recipe is never the same, because I look at the thing and I choose the ingredients. And when it's really good, my husband said, 'How did you do it? Because I need you right now.' And I said, 'I don't have a recipe.' And indeed, it feels a little bit more like the magic part of marketing than the structure part. But I bake as well, and baking is super structure, it's like the marketing. So I like to do both. There's a left brain and right brain. Baking is very analytical: if you don't follow the recipe perfectly, then it's a failure. Whereas cooking can be very creative and you can invent as you go. Exactly, that's a good balance for a marketer.

I am currently reading the Leonardo da Vinci biography, which I'm really enjoying. And I think he was such a versed person in so many different areas. It inspires me a lot. I love biographies, and the next one I'm going to do is Frank Sinatra, that I have on my list. So this is one. And music because I like to dance. Music is a very important part of it. I am going back and forth on the 80s, 90s, like the patch mode, Smiths and things like this. I'm currently my playlist is not very modern. The other day I listened to something like Doja Cat and it was fun to dance, but in the car when I was driving, I have to say that I go back a little bit more when I was going out, when my husband was my boyfriend. And it's great music. It transcends time, it's impressive.

It's very true. What I... of course I worked four years in Sony with international casting in Brazil, so I was coordinating all the international bands in Brazil. I remember Oasis was one of them. I had firsthand experience from the stage. So it's very difficult to beat that. So those memories are quite vibrant in my head. And Brazilian music is very special, and I think it's very personal. There are musics that I listen to and remember my father and I cry. There are musics that I listen to and remember when my son was in my belly and I cry. They are all Brazilian music, super personal. There are no things that I said, 'Okay, let me rip my heart here on the podcast and tell you all the things that make me cry.' No. These are the ones that make me smile and dance and bring really positive memories in a daily routine sense.

Oh, there is one that I'm loving at the moment. Let me just because I know the music but I don't know the name. Hold on, I will tell you in a second. Because I have my playlist... what will be? Today without stopping... Oh, okay. I have to be honest, if you look at my playlist, I have a lot of Maluma and Shakira, so there it is as well. There is one from Latin America. The one I will have to write it down for you, or do you want me to say in Portuguese?

Very good. It's called 'Pipa Voada,' and it's from a guy called Rashid Lucena. And it's a very, very good music. I can listen like five times in a row.

Thank you. I really enjoyed myself. I hope everyone else enjoyed it as well. And I really appreciate your very fun questions. I had a good time. Thank you.