At this point we can start. Today we have two very different guests, and it will be wonderful to try to unite their stories. So let's invite them on stage. I start with Marco Scioli, co-founder of Starting Finance. Starting Finance is the largest financial education community in Italy, with over 2 million users, over 3.5 million in revenue. You have acquired companies, done a lot of things, university clubs in over 30 universities. So it's a pleasure to have you here, Marco. Thank you very much.
Thank you, thank you for your hospitality. And the second guest of the evening is a giant of this city, Marco Boglione.
the president and founder of BasicNet.
BasicNet, you may know it better for some of the brands it owns and has relaunched, like K-Way, Kappa, Superga. There are many that Marco and his team have taken, often near bankruptcy, and completely revived. Today over 410 million in revenue, a giant company. Marco will tell us a bit about his story. Make yourselves comfortable, you have a glass of water if needed. I'd say let's have a chat, since Club Tosto is a club, we're here to chat with some people. So we can start from the beginnings. One of the goals of these evenings is to make the audience empathize with stories that are huge and seem unreachable. Marco did it at 30 and a little more, Marco Boglione is a few years older, but achieved amazing results. Marco, where did you start from? What were the beginnings when you only have an idea? Because you started many years ago from an idea.
You start from where you can start, you don't choose where to start. So, I started believing I wanted to be an entrepreneur as a child. I was little, I didn't even know what it meant. We went to the beach in Alassio. In the afternoon I would take my bike and go see the boats at the port. There was a sailor. I'd ask, 'What does that guy do, the owner of the boat?' They said, 'He's an entrepreneur.' Then another even nicer boat, 'What does he do?' 'He's an entrepreneur too.' At 10 years old, when they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up, I said entrepreneur. I wasn't looking at the boats, but I said it. I think it's a genetic modification, not hereditary, but a different way of looking at things, at life. So maybe I had it inside, but at 19-20 I had to look for a job and I took the first one I found, which went very well, but I didn't become an entrepreneur for 10 years. Then someone told me, 'Be an entrepreneur, because you are an entrepreneur.' Unfortunately, it was my boss, with whom I worked very well, had a meteoric career. I was a nerd, so imagine in the late 70s. But this man fully valued me and then said, 'I'm sick, I'm dying. Don't keep being a manager, be an entrepreneur.' That's a beautiful thing. So then two ideas were born. I always say that the idea matters only up to a point, because the ratio of difficulty of having ideas is not the same as executing them. Execution is much more important. So I had several ideas, some I applied, but at age 27-28 I focused on two, with my first wife who was also an entrepreneur. Then we went on, many things happened, and I became an entrepreneur by design.
And what is the first brand you started from?
Well, one is the company that changed its name, but the VAT number is still the same, which is now called BasicNet, formerly Football Sport Merchandise. We wanted, based on my experience in the textile sector, to do merchandise in soccer like the NBA, NFL. But it was much more complicated legally and culturally, everything was unauthorized. At that time we could only sell by mail order because we were a very small company. It didn't go very well, but then it went well after 15 years. Another good intuition was Mototaxi. At the time there was no fax, let alone internet. So desk-to-desk deliveries for advertising agencies, companies. Large companies had messengers, others used taxis. In the Anglo-Saxon world there were pony express. We did Mototaxi in Milan, and some competitors and friends did Pony Express. That was developed over 20 years, then sold, and we went on with BasicNet.
Marco, it's hard to have two Marcos on stage. You started some time ago, but not as long as Marco. Where did you start from, and when did you realize you were actually doing something you had to focus on because it was working?
Yes. I have a difficult task because some friends told me they are tired from the tech days, so we have to make them laugh. Already complicated to be on stage with such a giant, and also be funny. I'll start with a funny thing. Marco's story reminded me of my idol Totti, who as a child wanted to be a gas station attendant because the gas station attendant always has a wallet full of money. So we must follow our childhood dreams. I have a small story from when I was 10-11, which doesn't relate to being an entrepreneur but to my passion for finance. I was at Disneyland with my father, during one of those endless lines. I started counting people, 1,2,3,4. My father asked what I was doing. I was trying to figure out how much Disneyland had earned that day. I asked how much people paid to enter. My father explained there's no Mr. Disney at the entrance counting people, but the idea was there. From then on I started seeing the world with an economic-financial approach. The start as an entrepreneur, when I realized there was something more than a university project like Starting Finance was born, was very casual. A series of combinations: my ex-girlfriend was friends with Dodo, the other founder. He told me a cool idea from San Francisco, to make a financial market simulator in Italy. We tried for 2 years, burned €500,000 of investors' money. What we had built in the meantime was a community of finance enthusiasts. No one cared about the simulator. That community became Starting Finance with over 2 million users. We realized we were wrong about the simulator and that there was interest in the topics. We developed the startup based on what the user wanted, not what we liked. And from there it evolved into what Starting Finance is now.
And now, Marco, you started not directly thinking about a business model that generates immediate revenue, but you gave a lot of importance to the brand. You created a digital brand. Why?
Because I believe that in our sector, digital, media, education, the only truly differentiating thing can be the brand. If in 2020, when we had been started 1-2 years with €50,000-100,000, a bank or traditional media wanted to do Starting Finance, it would have taken them 10 minutes. But in 2020 we already had 200,000 followers who saw us as a reliable brand. Events at universities, where you walked in and saw the same brand, the same place, it stuck in your mind. Our idea was that when you think of economics and finance in Italy, at least for now, you must think of Starting Finance. That was a good choice. We continue to invest in reputation because without the brand, no one will trust what you write or say, especially when we teach.
Marco, you have a particular characteristic: you decided to revive well-known brands that were in crisis, instead of creating your own brand. And without producing those products yourself, BasicNet distributed worldwide. First, why did you decide to start with brands that were known but struggling? Was it pure opportunism, or did you see that creating your own would require more effort? And what was the first brand you started from? Kappa?
Well, I started working very young in a sector and learned things. I learned how important and fundamental the brand is. The 'no logo' theory is paradoxical, instrumentally used, but it's nonsense. The brand has always existed. It's a synthesis of product quality and philosophy, like a remote control. You see the brand and you understand everything. In the 70s, with the explosion of youth demand for products like jeans, brand was essential. I learned the trade, how to produce and advertise t-shirts. Then after 10 years as an entrepreneur, I had the opportunity to buy those brands I had worked for, which had gone bankrupt. In the meantime, the world had changed. The computer revolution began, but something was missing: internet. When it arrived and was given free to humanity, Amazon and everything new was born. On the arrival of the network, I said I'll make BasicNet. What is BasicNet? It's a platform. We didn't know how to call it. It's a completely different company, horizontal. For 20 years there were no managers, only entrepreneurs around the world. We called it Basic Network because for us nerds, 'basic' is like a saint. Basic stands for Beginners All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code. We wrote poems in Basic. So Basic was obvious. And it means simple, understandable by everyone. But 20 years later we realized we had made a marketplace. Today they call it that. We were the first B2B marketplace in our sector, maybe the only one. Because what counts is not the idea, advertising, or money, but elbow grease in writing systems, never stopping, like the big software companies. The leap was thinking of a company that could manage brands with a business model that didn't exist, which perfectly matched our needs: we had no money. To develop those brands, we do over a billion in sales, 400 million consolidated, but all products together over a billion and a half. How could we do that without a family bank? We had to avoid working capital and risk. A network of other entrepreneurs. We have a captive B2B marketplace. We own the brand and create all intangible things: design, collections, engineering, advertising. We do only intangible, own the brand, do style, creativity. Then we have two categories of entrepreneurs worldwide. 30 years ago I would say, 'I sell you the possibility to make money, a business opportunity.' I never sold a t-shirt. Now the model has changed, we buy licensees, consolidate revenue, have inventory and working capital.
How many years did you not have a warehouse?
Well, we had a small one because a licensee, I always said even McDonald's has to have a restaurant to test a new fryer. So we had the Italian market where we were licensees of ourselves, but for the rest of the world we never had a warehouse, not even a transit warehouse. We made commercial licensees buy from factories they never saw, our samples they sold, then they order production on basic.net. No warehouses, no working capital, and we developed at the speed of light.
You spread a bit of everything. Marco, if I'm not mistaken, that was part of your initial strategy. Today you are in over 30 universities with your clubs. Why did you start and why did you decide to found university clubs?
No, you make us stronger than we are. Also there, by chance. We did an event at the university where Edoardo studied, and we found 200 people instead of the 30 expected. We said, 'If these are so active online, and then come in mass to talk about economics and finance, even with a boring topic, why not try to see if this works?' So we followed the model. It worked at LUISS where he studied, and at Roma Tre where I studied. We decided to do events around Italy in universities. Instead of us traveling, we made the smartest people in each university become licensees, so to speak. They organize events as Starting Finance Club. We provide the network, the name, entrepreneurs to tell their stories, and companies to recruit junior figures. The model is the same, but the difference is that Starting Finance clubs don't make money, while BasicNet does a couple of billion in sales.
But you threw yourself into something that seems like an impossible challenge: educating about finance. Money is one of the most private things. Talking about money is difficult. You do it to talk to young people and educate them. Have you succeeded? Are you succeeding?
Well, partly with young people we are succeeding. There are numbers from OECD surveys on financial education. When we started, Italy was second to last in the world, below Togo and Mauritius. 68% of Italians didn't know what inflation was. Today Italy has risen a bit, especially among under-35s, and I think we can take some credit. We don't know how many of our 2 million followers actually know what inflation or compound interest is, but we aim to give basic tools for managing savings and investments. It takes time, especially in a country like Italy, but I think we are on the right track, and other realities are collaborating with us.
Now, in the last part, let's try to leave aside the companies you both founded and talk about a more human dimension, which connects more with people. Today we are in a very different era from when you started. An era where startups exist, and with AI, more people are trying to become entrepreneurs. Today you can create a website even if you're not a programmer. How do you see it, Marco? If you were 20 today, in 2025, where would you start? Would you focus on something specific, dive in, wait for a vision?
I would start from where I started, even when I did young entrepreneurial exercises, from the needs of people. Everything else comes later. To be an entrepreneur you need a clear sense of the need you want to satisfy, for the market, whether small, vertical, niche. The entrepreneur must think of someone on the other side who wants what you try to sell. I don't know how you could start from a business plan. I never read one, never made one. I made banks do them when they forced you. They are all just numbers, not a reason to build a company. The only truth is that you never do it. I always say it: it's much more important to have a business vision than a business plan. Martin Luther King said 'I have a dream', not 'I have a business plan'. With a dream you might go somewhere, with a business plan objectively no. You need to have a clear product, services, whatever, but imagine the consumer. Then you need to do what we old entrepreneurs did: family and friends, and suppliers. Suppliers are great because they give you the product, you try to sell it, and you pay later. Without that, you need a fund. The supplier is better because he asks for a business plan. That's where the true entrepreneur is born when you don't have money to pay him. When you have money, everyone is good. There are moments when suppliers wait a year, a year and a half. Then family breaks the piggy bank. And friends who work with you. A less systematic approach. In coworking spaces, they go to funds, make business plans. The funny thing is these entrepreneurs then ask when they will sell and how much they will make. It's like parents having a child and saying when he's 6 we'll sell him. No, we want to keep him forever. The entrepreneur wants the company to last forever, for generations. This is due to the drugged startup market. The value of profit versus equity is simple: one passes the bank, the other keeps cash. The profit entrepreneur sees profit as a consequence of a well-functioning company. The financier sees profit as a cause of investment. Friends are very important. You can't start by paying hundreds of thousands of euros in talent with exits. In my first 10 years as an entrepreneur, I lost money every year, and my colleagues and I saw very little salary. When there was something, we shared. So friends at the beginning of a real entrepreneurial venture are essential.
Spontaneous ones are fundamental. And I say, when they ask me 'What is a piece of advice? If you saw something here, I say, those guys who want to go into business on their own, don't do it alone, eh, never do it alone, always do it with one, two or three friends. Someone will get lost along the way and then maybe you'll end up alone, but what is called today a startup in the traditional way alone is very difficult, but also psychologically, you're not always hip and there's the moment when someone tells you 'Come on, I'll take care of it now,' those things. So never be alone.
Marco, instead I also ask you if you were twenty years old and not that much time has passed, so...
Almost, I'm 29. Well, if I were 20 at the beginning today, eh, that basically for you means what are the main mistakes, very fresh evidently, that you made, what would you not do again starting over, and obviously you can also connect, you do financial education, we just said that business plans are useless, so... Indeed, it's true. And look, maybe we made too many business plans and it happened to us because it happened to us recently to review them, the business plans made in 2018, this wonderful simulator that had a recurring with people paying a subscription to simulate on the stock market, never made €1 from that rate, all those things. But on the business plan we made a lot of money and we focused, in my opinion, too much in the first phase on understanding how we could generate those numbers we had written on the business plan. So, it seems made on purpose because Marco talked about this, but really we had this initial approach that was we have to reach that number, we have to do it with this product because we were born to make the simulator and we didn't see instead that while we were spending and burning a lot of money on the simulator, on the other side there was a sustainable company that was growing and working and solving a problem. And so certainly the fact, especially now we are very spoiled, by having a community, that is, if tomorrow we have to develop a new product or service and we sit down at a table, closed in a room to think about what to launch, we would be idiots, having 2 million people with the possibility, among other things, of also doing nice focus groups in universities, so having also in the 30 universities a niche of even more loyal community helps us a lot because if tomorrow we have to launch a new product, new service, new event, new activity, we do it based on what users ask us and this is very useful because it allows us to limit errors and above all it allowed us to work a lot in a startup approach which is that when we develop something new we don't start immediately at 1000, we are all more or less founders here and we develop, invest millions and millions of euros that are never ours, but are of investors who, since they saw their business plan that worked, are happy to have the data, but then we realize at the end that actually no one cared about that service and product. In this I believe there is the good part of the startup model, that is, to try, start to see little by little, there is interest, they like it, we can grow it, we can scale it and then at that point obviously invest to scale it. And this is certainly a mistake we made and I believe that another mistake we constantly make is that of wanting to solve things with a magic wand and this is typical of the startup context when Marco talks about years, the first 10 years, that is, if I think that we are alibile and this spoils us tremendously, right? Because in 6 years it's as if we had lived at least three or four phases of the company and we are not even the typical startup that burns burns burns, but we have already lived three or four important phases of the company and when instead for us it's a geological era, in reality 7 years for a company that has a vision, a future is just a little piece where maybe we could have started to understand a little bit of what to do in the coming years. Also because in this era if you found a company as a young person it's typically a startup. And the startup raises money from funds to which you cannot say I'll be there in 15 years. No, 15 years. The fund closes after 7 years, it closes at most, 15 years is a lot and it has really changed. I feel very close to Marco from this point of view, the way of doing business today, that meaning of starting spontaneously, having the vision, looking long term, it's like my son, so my son will live, will survive me. And BasicNet is a company that has many years and will survive you too in 50 years when you go and it will continue its life because it was born for that. While today many companies are born to become a branch of something bigger, make some money for investors, maybe buy the boat for the founder and that's it. In fact, I believe that on this the real turning point will begin in Italy when the startup investor is not someone who made a fund, never did business and company. The only thing he did is a fund, but it's Marco who invests in a startup and does it with that approach. We for example were very lucky.
No, it's not a solicitation for Marco's investment.
No, I'm not asking him for money, but we for example were very lucky because in this last period, in the last round we did we raised from a fund made by a former founder and I swear he never saw a business plan, there is no review on the investment contract and every now and then we ask ourselves but does he really put money until we saw technically the thing we didn't believe it because it's absurd for how we are used to, right? This guy came to the office, met us, liked the reality, came to our events, follows us, in short, he understood the ecosystem. For him the thing is cool, I invest, see you in a few years.
Cool. Eh, Beautiful. Um, Marco, I have one last question, then we leave 10 minutes for questions from the audience. Um, I allow myself to ask this only to you because it's a specific project of yours. You recently have a new venture which is the island of Coluccia. You bought an island in Sardinia and you are, I don't use the term, I don't know if it's right, redeveloping or bringing it back to a concept of sustainability and life that seems very far from ours. Can you tell us something more about this?
Well, I have, as I said before, I've been doing this stuff for many years and I developed it and I hoped it would grow, consolidate, I had that dream, I saw it a bit coming and then at a certain point I started to think, but I want to tell you one thing first because what you were saying about the approach of making a startup to sell it, let's say it happened a bit to us too, in the sense that when we started we started family and friends, then we had this opportunity to buy the bankruptcy which was a thing, we didn't have a lira, I had to pull out 22 billion old lire to buy the assets. So there we had to turn to someone who gave them to us saying in 6 years I close the fund if not before and so we started like everyone and after 3 years things were going more than well. And these guys...
