Saabs vd Micael Johansson och Di:s analytiker Johan Wendel i samtal om framtidens krigsföring.
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What Micael Johansson said
Written from the verified transcript and checked against it. Every figure links to the moment it was said.
Micael Johansson, President and CEO of Saab, discussed how recent conflicts, especially in Ukraine, have shaped Saab's long-term planning, emphasizing the growing importance of autonomous systems and drones across all domains. He noted that while Ukraine uses millions of drones annually, current demand in other countries is limited to a few thousand, but scaling up production to a million drones in six months is possible if supply chains are prepared. Johansson advocated integrating Ukraine's defense industrial base into Europe and setting up production in Western countries like Sweden. He argued that future warfare will be a hybrid of manned and unmanned systems, with larger platforms like frigates becoming command platforms coordinating drone swarms, potentially reducing costs. He stressed the need for human oversight of AI-driven autonomous systems. On Europe-US cooperation, Johansson asserted Europe's defense industry is as capable as America's and must build sovereign capabilities while maintaining a strong transatlantic link, though gaps remain in space and anti-ballistic systems.
Key takeaways
Saab can scale up drone production to a million units in six months if needed, but supply chains must be prepared.
Ukraine uses millions of drones annually, but current demand elsewhere is only a few thousand.
Europe's defense industry is as good as America's and must build sovereign capabilities while keeping transatlantic ties.
0:17Um, but Micael, these recent wars, if we look at Ukraine and Iran, how have they affected your long-term planning?
2:20But Micael, how far along is Saab when it comes to drones that everyone is talking about right now?
6:38Could it still become a form of disarmament debate like we had maybe 20 years ago, that we don't need to spend this large amount of money on this rearmament, that we can do it cheaper with drones and the like?
8:42How much does Europe need to cooperate with the US beyond NATO cooperation today?
Yes, and now we will focus on the defense of the future. We ask ourselves how many Gripen frigates and tanks we will actually need in the future. And to discuss this, we have Saab's CEO Micael Johansson and also DIS analyst Johan Wendel. Welcome.
Yes, we can start by noting that Saab, as you know, has been one of the big winners in the rearmament we have seen in recent years. Um, but Micael, these recent wars, if we look at Ukraine and Iran, how have they affected your long-term planning?
Well, it's clear that we follow very closely how these conflicts develop and what technology is used, and especially in Ukraine we have received quite a lot of feedback on our systems that either countries have donated there or we ourselves have delivered there. So there is a lot that we are doing in our product development continuously now based on the experiences. But above all, everyone sees that autonomous systems and drones, which everyone is talking about in all domains, both in the air and on the water and underwater, will be part of the future. So that means quite a lot for not only us but many are looking at what capabilities are needed for the future.
And if you look at the conflict in the Middle East, it is more a sign that you cannot help but be fascinated by how much capacity you need when things actually drag on and that the depth you must have in your inventory is also very important. So it's not just cutting edge, it's also quantity that matters.
Mm. Johan, earlier when you thought about defense capability, you might always think of aircraft carriers or fighter jets. But now we see social media and drones that destroy material worth hundreds of millions. Is this a fair picture of future warfare?
I think it's not either/or. You will need both. And that's the important thing, you will need both. And if you were to go to the front line now and ask the Ukrainians what they need, they would very much like to have advanced systems like fighter jets because they have great advantages that drones lack. They can carry larger warheads, for example, so they have greater effect. So I think you will need both.
Mm. I think we might try to nuance this picture that not only drones will be needed in future warfare. But Micael, how far along is Saab when it comes to drones that everyone is talking about right now?
Well, it's clear that we are putting a lot of our research and development into developing new systems and we can deliver drones today. Swarm technology, so to speak, autonomous swarms. But it's a bit fascinating. Everyone looks at Ukraine and they use millions of drones every year, and production capacity maybe between five and six million drones per year. It's not that the demand really exists in all other countries. Many defense forces are just learning how to use drones in their way of operating. So there we are talking maybe a few thousand that are needed. So it's not a huge demand as one might think. Except where there is a conflict, if one could scale up quickly if it were really needed to the same extent as Ukraine has today. Could Sweden scale up that type of production today? We could absolutely do that, but we are in the middle of trying to create the supply chains and so on so that we can do it in a good way. But the most important thing of all, I think, is to bring the Ukrainian defense industrial base into Europe, into the EU, and be part of our defense. And the first thing we would do, I would say, is to take existing capabilities that are used in Ukraine. Set up production of them in Western countries, for example in Sweden. During the ongoing war, much of it would go back to Ukraine to handle their conflict. But some of it would then be used in Sweden, for example in the Armed Forces, to learn how to use them. That is the fastest way. But certainly we can manage to set up production of large volumes. Mm.
The problem for the future will be that it's not demand right here and now that will be huge, but the day you need it, you might need a million drones in six months, and then you have to have prepared for that. And that is exactly the business model that we now have to look at with our customers so that they are prepared to pay for the insurance that it entails to be able to do that.
Mm. Mm. But there is a demand for being able to scale up in that way. Yes, there is absolutely starting to be such a demand. And understanding that you don't need to store masses of drones that are constantly evolving, especially with software, is great. So it's precisely this: when we need it, we must be able to get it quickly. And that is exactly what we are discussing with our customers today.
11 more exchanges in this transcript
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Johansson, M. (2026, June 24). Saabs vd: Så snabbt kan vi skala upp drönarproduktionen [Interview transcript]. Dagens industri. CEOInterviews.AI. https://ceointerviews.ai/interview/1105647/
MLA
Micael Johansson. "Saabs vd: Så snabbt kan vi skala upp drönarproduktionen." Dagens industri, 24 Jun. 2026. Transcript, CEOInterviews.AI, https://ceointerviews.ai/interview/1105647/.
BibTeX
@misc{johansson2026_1105647,
author = {Micael Johansson},
title = {Saabs vd: Så snabbt kan vi skala upp drönarproduktionen},
howpublished = {Interview transcript, Dagens industri. CEOInterviews.AI},
year = {2026},
month = {jun},
url = {https://ceointerviews.ai/interview/1105647/},
note = {Speaker-attributed transcript with timestamps}
}
