Your guest now in the big interview live on Boursorama, it's Laurent Guillot. Hello.
Thank you for being with us on Boursorama, CEO of EMIS, the European leader in comprehensive dependency care. That's how we should introduce you. Not just nursing homes but also psychiatric clinics and follow-up care clinics. Exor, I know I shouldn't say it, but for those who don't follow the Paris stock exchange on the SBF 120, you'll do better. So, not personally because you're always fine, but when I see the various elements, I looked at the occupancy rate which is rising especially in France, you're also raising your prices, the stock price, the balance sheet which is strengthening, the turnaround is still ongoing, it's not over I imagine, but the turnaround is underway.
Absolutely. The turnaround is according to plan, there's no, we're a little bit behind on the operational plan and we're a little bit ahead on the balance sheet plan, so overall according to plan, very good progress on human resources, team stabilization which is very important in our healthcare and safety work, very good progress on the dynamics of care and the quality of work we do with our patients and residents, especially with a satisfaction rate that continues to increase, and on the financial side, as you said, numbers that are all moving in the right direction.
Let's dissect it. I was thinking, if it's doing better, why sell 16 senior residences for 160 million euros? It's to reduce debt and there's a divestment plan obviously but you need to refocus, but 5 or 10 years ago they said no, you need to diversify.
Ah, 5 and 10 years ago the company's situation was not the same. It's part of the overall divestment plan and we were very marginal in this sector in France. We only had 16 facilities. These facilities were not making money, so selling them for 160 million when they don't make money, sold.
Well sold. Yeah. Sold to whom by the way?
Sold to investment operators and operators who operate these nursing homes, sorry these senior residences.
Yes. Watch out. EMIS is still in a net loss in the first half but the loss halved to 137 million euros. When will we return to profits? It's not a race by the way. It's an objective. As quickly as possible, right?
Exactly, it takes time. It's about restoring order and efficiency in each of our facilities worldwide. We have 1,000 facilities. So it's meticulous work every day.
1,000 facilities worldwide, how many in France?
350 in France: 227 nursing homes and 123 clinics.
Yes. And the rest, the biggest markets, sorry I ask the question.
The biggest markets are Germany, the Netherlands, Spain, with a leadership position in those countries. We have leadership positions. So, the market is very fragmented in Germany, so we are among the leaders but we are very small. We are very clearly the leader in the Netherlands, we are among the leaders in Spain, and in Austria we are by far the leader.
Return to profit and earnings, when? 2026? No, 2026, I think it will still be a little difficult, 2027, but it will be quite soon.
We have already passed, you don't know, it will depend on the trajectory and we are cautious so we haven't communicated on the subject, so we need to do it properly for the market. No, we have already turned positive in free cash flow, which is the first time in 10 or 15 years. Free cash flow compared to net income? It's the cash part, the treasury part, the company's ability to generate cash from its activity. But already we are back to positive free cash flow, which is the first time in the history that free cash flow was not positive. Probably 10, 15 years, which is a big change for the company and puts it in the right direction.
With an occupancy rate for nursing homes that is rising everywhere, especially in France. It's a way because we ask you every time you appear on a show, is the chapter on mistreatment definitively closed? When we see this occupancy rate rising, it's a part of the answer.
Yes, of course. It's the trust of our patients and residents that is expressed through these occupancy rates. And yes, it's both the work we have done on care, on the care of our patients and residents. I would say the residents who were with us in 2022 or 2023 have expressed their trust many times, trust in the teams. There was no structural mistreatment issue in our facilities even in 2022 but we have continued to improve and we are very clearly attracting new clients both through our care activity and the quality of our work, the quality of our facilities which are among the best in the market, and also because we have a commercial approach that we didn't have before 2022.
You have really strengthened your controls, Mr. Guillot. It's true that there is a before and after for your patients, for clients, for the staff.
We have a battery of controls that is much more detailed than before, that lands on my desk very regularly. I said it at the time. In fact, the first decision I made was to have all serious adverse events related to care happening in all facilities on my desk every week, to analyze them, see what's happening and take concrete measures. It's a continuous improvement approach that was much more frequent, I would say, and much more common in industry and less usual in the healthcare sector.
And for the patients and clients, what has changed in 5 years?
I'll take the whole strategy. What is important in your question is that we take better care of our teams, our caregivers and non-caregivers. That's important because they are in contact every day with the residents and if they are not well, they cannot take good care of them.
That means you pay them better.
