Jornada completa, 4º Día del Hidrógeno | Enagás

Europe will invest 2 billion euros to support production of green hydrogen.

Sometimes we are going to use mainly the Spanish language but sometimes we're going to switch to English. If you need translation or any device, the staff here around will help you and we'll provide one of them.

So let me introduce to you Mr. Bharl Klutik is the director general. Please come here to the stage. Mr. Clutik, director general for security, gas and hydrogen, federal holdings at the German federal ministry for economic affairs and energy. So welcome Mr.

Dear Arturo, dear Madame Ambassador, dear ladies and gentlemen, snow in Madrid. I actually expected to bring some sun from Berlin, but indeed I just come back from Hamburg and it was snowing in Hamburg, so I brought the snow to Madrid. Sorry for that. I'm very honored to speak to you today at the fourth edition of the Enagás Hydrogen Day. This conference has become a landmark event in the European hydrogen sphere, highlighting Spain as one of the most dynamic hydrogen sectors in the EU and H2M as one of the most promising European hydrogen corridors. So, thank you for bringing us all together. It's my great pleasure to contribute to this conference by providing a German perspective on the European hydrogen ramp up and our cooperation with Spain. In this keynote, I would like to address three aspects. First, the European dimension of hydrogen infrastructure, especially the H2M southwestern hydrogen corridor. Second, the importance of creating reliable hydrogen demand and the policy framework we need to make it work. And third, hydrogen as a strategic pillar for Europe's industry, sovereignty, and security. Last September, the German Minister for Economic Affairs and Energy, Katarina Reiche, presented 10 key measures for economic growth and competitive markets. This agenda builds on the monitoring report on energy transition which was announced in the German coalition treaty and had previously been carried out by two scientific institutes. The meta analysis conducted in the monitoring report is very clear. Germany's hydrogen demand is expected to be met to a great extent by imports in the long term. And that is why European hydrogen import corridors like the H2M southwestern hydrogen corridor are so important. They will secure the supply of low-cost hydrogen from the 2030s onwards in Germany and in Europe. Germany considers a trans-European hydrogen network essential for the EU energy union. By connecting the most competitive production sites with Europe's industrial hubs and complementing the electricity network, this network will support both energy security and competitiveness. With that in mind, we strongly welcome the fact that the EU has listed the H2M and the south corridor as key infrastructure projects under the new EU energy highway initiative. We are eager to complement this effort and Spain is one of our most important partners in realizing the vision of an interconnected, competitive and decarbonized European energy market. But as we all know, vision alone is not enough and actions speak louder than words. So, let's look at the progress being made to make the hydrogen corridors become reality. Just last September at the H2M Alliance event in Berlin, our parliamentary state secretary Stefan Ruhof underlined the significance of the corridor for the future of European competitiveness. On that day, the governments of Spain, Portugal, France, and Germany agreed to institutionalize their cooperation to support the project implementation. Also, we are grateful to the European Commission who facilitates the process by hosting a dedicated work strand under the EU high level group on interconnections for Southwest Europe. And we are delighted with the progress that has been made in setting up the H2M alliance of 49 companies which is now working intensively on the commercial realization of the corridor and offtake commitments because it is clear a network by itself is not a market. The success of our ambitious plans hinges on one key factor. Large-scale electrolyzers and cross-border pipelines will only be built if industrial offtakers have a reliable business case to consume large volumes of renewable and low-carbon hydrogen. That is why Minister Reiche's 10-point plan expresses the need for a pragmatic promotion of the hydrogen ramp up. We are convinced overly complex requirements such as the strict definition of green hydrogen at EU level need to be replaced by pragmatic criteria that enable demand-driven investment. This includes an extension of the transition periods defined in the EU criteria for green hydrogen or RFNBO. Pragmatic criteria will make hydrogen production more cost-efficient and encourage offtaker interest. However, further action is needed to scale up hydrogen offtake and the German government is pushing forward several measures to that fact. We will incentivize hydrogen demand through quotas. Refineries will be important as anchor customers for green hydrogen in the early phase. Last December, a draft law for implementing RED III targets for transport was passed. It defines both a general emission quota and a sub-quota for green hydrogen. Also, hydrogen will play a central role as an energy vector, helping to store energy across seasons and safeguard our supply. The recently agreed upon German power plant strategy sets out tender plans for a total capacity of 12 gigawatt hydrogen-ready gas power plants. By the 2040s at least 4 gigawatt will be fully switched to hydrogen. Another central element of our offtake strategy are green lead markets. My ministry is currently working intensively on concepts to establish them for key industrial hydrogen uptake sectors. For example, in primary steel making as well as in fertilizer production. But let me make one fundamental point in the end. Hydrogen is not only a tool for decarbonization. It is a key element of maintaining and strengthening Europe's industrial base and sovereignty in the unpredictable geopolitical landscape of our times. There's a clear industrial and security policy rationale to safeguard strategically important sectors in order to protect European sovereignty, resilience and economic security. That is why efforts to establish green lead markets should go hand in hand with broader economic security measures at EU level such as trade protection measures for the steel sector or the implementation of CBAM. Maintaining our industry's competitiveness on the global stage while providing a long-term perspective for a diversified and secure supply with renewables or low-carbon energy. This is the right approach. Also, we need to de-risk cross-border infrastructure and connecting hydrogen projects. Europe must find new innovative ways to share financial risks of cross-border projects that are in the joint economic interest of all involved member states. We stand ready to share our experience from the amortization account that we applied to our national hydrogen core network. Similar mechanisms could be a viable approach also for the EU level and accelerate the creation of a large privately financed European hydrogen network. We see great potential for this to be included in the current draft of the GRITs package and are committed to advocating for it in Brussels. However, the best form of de-risking for cross-border infrastructure is making green hydrogen a competitive commodity. Ladies and gentlemen, the Enagás Hydrogen Day provides an excellent framework to identify the next steps needed to advance the hydrogen market ramp up in Europe. I look forward to the discussions and insights. Thank you very much for your attention and always bear in mind hydrogen is now. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Mr. Very insightful.

So transport network operators. So please welcome the representatives and the chief executives of the transport network operators from Spain, France, Portugal, the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany. They are here to explain the progress in their networks. Please welcome Mr. Rodrigo Costa Ren, chairman and CEO Natran, CEO Sandrin Manet, Gasi CEO, Vimian Turpra Fluxy CEO, Pascal Deuk OG CEO, Dr. Thomas Huvener and Enagas CEO Arturo Gonzalo who will lead the conversation with their European counterparts. Welcome.

Well, thank you Arturo. Thank you Enagás for organizing this hydrogen day. I've been here since the first event and I think is very impressive. The progress that you are all making and for sure and I would say the government of Spain has had a very important role on what we are doing here today. I will start with something different from what you ask me. You know today again last night in Portugal we had an extreme weather event. We have right now 1 million people without energy and winds of 200 kilometers per hour between 3:00 a.m. and 6:00 a.m. You can imagine my night because I do electricity and I do natural gas and hydrogen. And why am I bringing this to your attention? Because hydrogen has a very important role in the future of the security of our energy systems and we have to acknowledge that. I think today in the first presentations we already had a lot of the things that we need to keep moving forward and as you know for sure Spain is a great example how things are moving. Now to your question, in Portugal we made progress, not as much progress as I would like to be honest. You know, we would like to be ahead of where we are, but you know, because the country is smaller, because the capacity for investment is smaller, things take a little bit more time. But we saw a lot of progress in 2025. We are now we have been nominated the provisional HTNO which is a major milestone for you know the speed of how things sometimes happen in our country which is a good progress. We had the approval to do our side of the projects on the project Selza which is the connection between our gas network and H2M. That's also a very important step because with that we are now fully committed in the works we are doing and I think it's going pretty well. We certified our network also blending is part of our strategy and we certified our network both transmission and the areas of distribution also 10% on the transmission 20% on the distribution networks because we believe we will start to that will be one of very important step in a few months we are starting to supply hydrogen to our natural gas network in the north of the country. It's going to be a pilot that is on the way to be launched pretty soon. We also are working on the development of all these studies for this new interconnection what we call the third interconnection between Portugal and Spain. But of course and this is probably more on the second question is what needs to happen next for sure that we will advance faster. Another point is on the production side we just saw Galp just announced this week the first electrolyzer of 100 megawatts to be ready by the end of the year. This is very important because it shows the way and we are also working with multiple clusters for hydrogen production in the country. I think one of the key things that really need to happen now is you know the certainty of all these projects moving forward in Spain and in Europe and I think that will be a catalyst also for more to happen in Portugal.

Yes, thank you Arturo to give me the opportunity of course to make a point on the development of H2 infrastructure in France. First I would like of course to give all my support to the REN colleagues. I know it's a huge crisis for you. So I hope everything will be well for your country and for the team in Portugal. Regarding Natran and H2, 2025 was really a turning point for us. Our ambition, our vision for the H2 network, come more clearer in 2025 and we, our local geography leading us to develop some cooperation project with European neighbor and I will give some word later. For us, our ambition for Natran is to reach FID, the financial investment decision for 1,000 kilometers of H2 and CO2 pipeline by 2030. Which is quite an ambition, but still we are on our path which is very important. We have 100 experts already on the way and working on the development of the project. We engage 250 million of euro on the project and we have also aird platform already operating and to assess H2 containability for steel and pipeline steel with hydrogen but we have also concrete project we have the mosaic project and it's a pioneer project and it's a real proof that there is a real milestone on real momentum on the H2 mosaic it's a 100 kilometers project between France and Germany it's a conversion project that means that will reuse a former pipeline and so we have now a firm commitment from our customer the H2 producer the French H2 producer and the German H2 consumer and So we have to commission this pipeline within three years. So we can see that it's very real. It's very concrete and we are already implementing the project and it will be I should say the first cross-border conversion H2 pipeline for Europe. But mosaic is not the only project that we are developing in France. to also develop project in industrial basin what we call H2B with ambition first to develop local H2 pipeline and then to connect this pipeline in the second step to H2M of course backbone more particularly to the French North part which is part and 15 project are in our portfolio now 10 of them have been already recognized as a project of common interest by the European community. So you can see that there is a real advance in the strategy and the realization of the project for 2026. For us it's to keep in the pace because we have a lot to do to confirm the long-term investment for the project and then we have also to prepare the building of the new project with the acceptability of the project and it's a strong subject in France. we have a national debate with the region that we cross with our project in order to prepare the future project. You have to know that 2026 will be a very busy electoral period in France which is not easy of course. So you can see that Natran is fully committed and we are moving forward from project to construction and from vision to delivery.

No, thank you very much. I think just to comment to my neighbors here I think we all realize that energy infrastructure is critical and it's an enabler and I think having a diversified energy is going to be critical particularly in the world that we're in today. So if we look at 2025 actually a lot has happened in the Netherlands. we have finalized our last weld for us of course very important and commissioning of the hydrogen pipeline in Rotterdam I think 2026 and I will touch upon that is going to be really a transformative year so that's going to be the beginning operational hydrogen further roll out in the Netherlands we're working on a lot of joint development agreements with actually many people here on stage a joint development agreements between Germany and the Netherlands, joint development agreements between Germany and Belgium. We have been ordering already long lead items particularly for the north because that's going to be the first operational connection between the Netherlands and Germany and of course if you're pre-ordering you basically take risks out of the supply chain and you can really accelerate. So if we look then at 2026 being really a transformative year actually in May and I wish I could invite you all we're going to have a very nice opening moment because that's really when our pipeline transport will go live for our first customer who's built 500 megawatts of hydrogen and that will be the connection between that and the first refineries and from there on we will further build out to connect the rest of the six industrial clusters in the Netherlands. On top of that, we're working of course with customer service agreements. we actually seeing that stepping up because we all know first you need the hydrogen before any market can develop and I think that's why we're so critical that we have pace because if you want to have an investment and there's still uncertainty whether the infrastructure is there on time it will further delay that so like I said we have taken many FIDs already in Germany we have already converted last week 171 km So maybe today 172 km let's see of having our pipeline and networks ready. And the other element is that also this year we have our CO2 infrastructure go live and that's important also for hydrogen because we're converting remaining gases into blue hydrogen and that's of course where CO2 transport and storage is going to be fundamental. So we're really committed and we've really shown that we're taking a leadership position in accelerating these important infrastructures.

I will follow the flow. It's really snowing. It's really snowing. Pascal from Fluxys. Okay so also in Belgium 2025 has been a very important year. A lot has happened on several aspects. First of all, the legal framework was decided and is being implemented as we speak. Meaning that Fluxys created a separate company Fluxys Hydrogen which has been nominated as HTNO as transport company for H2 sorry CO2. I'm coming back to that also for CO2 but that's another company. so we are implementing already by the fact that first of all we are discussing now with the regulator the tariff system which is quite important I'm coming back to that because there is a big question around or big challenge on de-risking on the first infrastructure you are talking about big investments a lot of money so the question is how do you ramp up how do you manage the financial consequences of a ramp up of this new market so we started the construction of a pipeline between two industrial zones I don't know if you are probably not familiar with Belgium but between Ghent which is a harbor which is a port with a lot of steel with a big steel mill and Antwerp with a lot of petrochemical industry we are building as we speak a pipeline we started the construction between those two harbors which of course is a first very important step. It also allows us to start being connected to the neighboring country in this case Netherlands because those two harbors are basically bordered have a border with the Netherlands. So in that respect we are finalizing we still need to sign but we have an agreement I'm looking to I mean on how we will interface how we jointly develop those grids because that's quite important because basically it's very nice you then have a connection between Rotterdam Ghent and Antwerp which are basically in terms of industrial area very much connected and very very energy intensive so this is ongoing on the other hand We are finalizing also the works for injecting. There is a first project on hydrogen green hydrogen with small amounts too small to start operating a dedicated hydrogen grid but we allowed that it would be injected in the natural gas grid in order to ramp up. so we are finalizing that and it is expected somewhere end of this year early next year that this also would be coded that it would be operational. On top of it we are discussing now or we started a project for importing green ammonia with the possibility to crack in order together with partners in order also to have bigger volumes volume volume. So you need of course the molecules from different sources at the cheapest price I think and that's I'm already anticipating now 26 it was already mentioned competitivity and sovereignty competitivity ladies and gentlemen for me is one of the top priorities because green hydrogen in our areas is not that obvious we don't have well normally we have more weather like this one being a little wind and sometimes we have a little bit of sun and I emphasize the sometimes so electrolyzers of course having a low load factor are not the most efficient installations. So how do you make it attractive? And this is for me one of the key challenges in also in 26 in order to keep our industry here and to have them an incentive of switching into this new energy because it's not easy to convince them to switch into hydrogen. So this is for me very very important. So for me and I'm anticipating now 26 de-risking further de-risking how do we build infrastructure which of course is tailored for future consumption the consumption is not there yet how do we deal with that.

Yeah, in Germany in 2024, our hydrogen baby, the core grid was born is what established. It should at the end consist of 12,000 km of pipelines to be ready in the 2030s. And it was the first year of our implementation of the core grid and the good news that I can give you here more than 500 kilometers from all the German TSOs have already been reconverted and erected. So that is good news because we are making progress and thanks that the government and the regulator have established the so-called amortization account model. there is a certain financing behind it where we take risks as TSOs as well but maybe if we talk about financing later that could be a model for other states as well. So what are we doing? We know that Germany will rely on imports in future heavily and therefore we work in a cluster that we start now with projects from origination in Germany and the northern part RWE has 300 megawatts of electrolyzers. they will go into production now step by step and the first pipelines have been built now to a storage facility and they will go straightly to the Ruhr area if you know where that is a heavily industrialized region and then we would like to focus on imports and the import connections that we will erect very soon is from the north sea to the area until 2027 that is about 300 350 km where also OGE has a lot of stakes in then there will be a connection to the Netherlands there will be connection to Belgium and last but not least and there's a lot of reconversion that is good news we want to be in the southwestern part of Germany where we will have a connection to the H2M corridor which is very important for the hydrogen supply of Germany at the end so that is very important what we're doing that is so we're coming from talking into direct action and that is what we are doing that is a good sign then we're doing the marketing as well in our grid we have now marketed so-called tie-ins so pieces for 23 customers so that shows there is interest for them we have a market area manager designated that is Trading Hub Europe and we have already capacity reservation mechanisms in place that there was the Danish people asked for that and that paves the way to really use the pipelines and bring them into operation.

Okay. Well, I can share what is our list of priorities or let's say objectives in terms of hydrogen. There are not that many you know one for sure is Barmar you know we need that infrastructure to be built without that infrastructure I think we will not have a hydrogen market in Europe then anything we can do to focus on the development of that infrastructure and also the agents and infrastructures I think is key and this is not going on the order of priority this is everything here needs to happen in what I believe regulation we already spoke about regulation fair regulation is absolutely mandatory we we heard your regulator president talking I think they understand what needs to happen and they also need to understand we all need to understand that these new technologies they take time to develop you know if we go back 20 years we can remember what happened with renewables nobody believed on the renewable globals in the beginning nobody wanted to invest and suddenly things move on and we are where we are today and we it is critical what we have been doing and it's very positive then the fact that we all need to understand you know that these new technologies they are disruptive and they need to happen but we need to have this focus mechanisms to support the financing and to make sure that you know this is a business we need to be profitable we need to reinvest at the same time this is a absolutely unique opportunity to create employment in Europe and high quality employment we always talk about AI every day we talk about the risks we talk about what will happen to people this is the case where we can create employment all over Europe whether production where distribution generation new industrial areas. I think it's key and the two last ones. One is innovation because when we and especially in these forums, we already touched that today here is, you know, we know hydrogen can have a very important impact on decarbonization of several industries, you know, steel, cement, chemicals, shipping, aviation, road transport. But the mechanisms the machines are not there yet in let's say ready to be used and innovation is absolutely mandatory. It's important that the governance they push the innovators to do something and to do more than what they are doing today and the last one is evangelize because and this is what we are doing here today. It's I don't know if people understand the value of hydrogen and I think we have it it must be our mission to do this evangelization.

I fully agree with Rodrigo of course now we have more or less the same problematic so regarding the regulation it's a key point for us too I think that what we need also to deploy and develop a cross-border project is to have a consistent regulation between the different country I think it's a key point and to have also regulation that could be implement gradually and which have to be also consistent with the market I think it's an important point too and so in France we hope that we will have a transposition of the fourth directive in the summer 2026 so we are already working on it with TERGA and with our regulator to have the right framework for the project de-risking but it has been told a lot of time but it's true we have to unlock investment we have to attract investment for financing our project so we need to have mechanism and Germany has already this kind of mechanism so I think it's time now to widespread this tools everywhere in each of our country of course in France. And the key point that I would like to add, it's for Natran at least, it's very important to stand firmly with our industrial with a European industrial of course and to support industrial with decarbonization solution pragmatic solution which embrace all the solution not only electrification. I think it's very important because we heard a lot everywhere electrification is a solution for the future. No, it's not only electrification, it's electrification plus H2 plus of course renewable gases plus CCUs which is also a solution. And I think it need to be said a little bit louder I think and thank you for the day that you organize because it is a real opportunity to say that and I think that to

Take care of industry for competitiveness, for sovereignty, is also a, it could be also a real trigger to develop H2 market and of course to develop H2 infrastructure. So I think it's the main point for us to move forward on the topic.

No, thank you. So I'll build on a couple of points that you've said. I think we as Europe have a challenge: how can we keep our industrial base here, keep our economic growth, while accelerating our sustainability? And it's clear that we're not just talking about climate goals anymore. We're talking about energy resilience, reliability, autonomy, and they become important. And I can't stress it enough. You need diversification for that. So building on what was said, I think yes, we need to be much more vocal about the roles of gases, and I say gases, which of course is natural gas, durable gases like hydrogen and CO2, because they play a fundamental role within the energy system and they have unique characteristics. And we hear a lot only about electrification. Yes, it's important, but today it's only 20% of, at least in the Netherlands, of the energy system. Hydrogen has unique qualities. It's essential. It can store energy. It can very cheaply, or about a factor 10 cheaper than electricity. So, if you have longer distance of transportation, you will use gases for that. Also, biomethane for example is a solution. So, diversification, develop it all. If you then look at what would we need to think about is of course level playing field. It's across Europe, it's from imports, and how do we make sure we do that. So, and how can we create business cases for industry, because as Pascal said, today that's where really the challenge is. So that's talking about lead market development. I think Mr. Clutv said that as well. It's about getting the right CBAM in place. But of course those are not all enough. You need to stimulate supply, you need to stimulate demand, and of course it can only start by connecting, and that's infrastructure.

So if you then look at, and I think it was also said before, what does Europe need to focus on, it's really on developing the framework after 2030. It needs to be more realistic and pragmatic, and that's low-carbon hydrogen, because we need to develop the hydrogen market, because at this moment there's so much doubt. And hydrogen and low-carbon hydrogen can actually address part of the answer on the affordability, but it will also be a stimulus for green hydrogen. Yeah, I lost a little bit my train of thought. I'll get to it. So we need to stimulate that, and I think it was another point that was mentioned: within the current framework you have the RFNBO, it has been made very, very difficult. And I give you just one example: if you look at where hydrogen can play a role in curtailment, when there's curtailment on electricity or where there's net congestion or you want to save on long transmission lines, you bring in hydrogen. But if you have, and I think that's actually very true in Germany already and we see it in the Netherlands as well, if you have a windmill and it basically has to be curtailed because there's no electricity demand or the net is congested, and you consider, hey, I want to make hydrogen of it, actually today it doesn't qualify. And that has to do with the additionality. So I think that's where we need to become much more pragmatic and start really scaling up the hydrogen market. And then the de-risking was said. We basically try to look at best practices. Germany has developed the amortization funds. We're actually discussing it with the Netherlands right now. It looks like that is developing. So, thanks for that. The Germans and the German politicians are looking and listening to Germany, and I think we need to do that. Obviously, it's not an issue for one country alone. So, it's accelerating permits, taking barriers away, developing the policies. That's all what we need to work on. So we are committed, like I said, we will get the first pipeline operational. I forgot to mention we are working on hydrogen storage both in Germany and in the Netherlands. We expect that to go live at least in the Netherlands in 2030. And we're also working on import terminals. So again it's a diversification. You have to concentrate all and really we need to start spreading the news why hydrogen is so essential in the diversification, not only for climate but also for industrial strength and our economies. Thank you.

They are very much the same as what has been said before, especially by Bamin. I think first I will start and work a little bit or go a little bit deeper on one of the topics, is the competitiveness. So reduce the rules about acceptability of hydrogen. We need the cheapest solution, low carbon, but the cheapest. And adding rules around it makes it more complex, more uncertain, and more expensive. And we need, if I talk to the industry, they are talking about two euro per kilogram, whatever, it is realistic or not, but that's very low, that's very competitive. So we need really to do everything to make it happen and to have low carbon at the cheapest price. And the not having too much details on the acceptability is in that respect practically. Secondly is regulatory certainty. We were talking about it, keep it stable, don't change every minute because the industry is investing for 10, 20 years. So if you change the rules of the game as we move along, and I speak to a lot, they really repeat systematically: we have too much uncertainty, it changes all the time, so we invest in different countries. So for me that's extremely important as such. And I will also come to the link with the electrons, with electricity. It is indeed a complementary element. And we were all in Hamburg, or most of us, there was a reference to it. Hamburg is a very nice, was a very nice declaration. It's the third time that we all get together around the North Sea on how do we see the North Sea as complementary, as the coming the electrons and the molecules coming from the south. It's especially focused on the wind. There's a lot of potential. We are talking about 300 gigawatt, so it's huge. It's fantastic. But what we need to continue emphasize is that we need to marry this ambition with an ambition on hydrogen. It is very nice and complementary, and this is still work on our desk. And because you have the electricity ambition and then oh yeah, yes there is, sometimes I hear this, there is the possibility but we will see on hydrogen. If we do that jointly, it will help in reducing the cost and increasing the attractivity of our energy system as a whole. And that is for me an integration of energy system with the diversification as one of the guidelines is for me a key aspect where we can move further. And I would also like to look to Europe to help us there, that we have a joint approach, another approach next to this. So for me 2026 will be very important in that respect. And that brings me to the last point I would like to add, is this integrated, it was mentioned indirectly, but we need to have a European approach. It doesn't make sense to have a view on Belgium and a view on the Netherlands and then we connect. We try to develop together, the three of us, a global view, the four of us even with Natal, the global view: how do we see ourselves in this European highway, H2 highway, how do we see the future? But that is of course very important. And an architect above us would probably be very interesting. We are also operating, and that's a nice example, even outside of Europe, Fluxys is also owning the grid in Switzerland. Switzerland is a very important connection between another southern corridor, complementary. How do we see all that? It's very capital intensive, which we need to have a view on it, which of course is extremely important.

Yeah, thank you for being the last one. A lot of has been said and I tried to tackle some other arguments. And I would like to start very general. The world has changed in the recent years. There's a lot of focus now on defense, on security, on competitiveness. That means we and our business is not that much in focus as it was in the decade before. So that is what I would like to ask the politicians to keep it in mind that we really have to work on this. Because also if we would like to have security, if you would like to have partners that we can rely on for security of supply that we will need if we want to shape competitive markets, then we need hydrogen and we need the green electrons and we need both together. So let's keep focus on our business. Let's keep focus on decarbonization that we can also in two years say hydrogen is now, that is very important to me at the first glance. Then secondly, I think we are on a way that we make some mistakes by copying some marketing model from the natural gas business, which I say is very complex, many people don't understand the complexity of the market, and we must not copy and paste everything to the hydrogen model. So reduce complexity, keep it simple, that people understand us, that customers understand how to book capacities and all these matters, that is of major importance as well in order to survive and have low cost and to be very efficient and understandable. Next one is on my wish list that we reduce cost for the production of hydrogen, because at the moment some projects are struggling because hydrogen is too expensive. And in order to reduce that we do not only have to scale up, we have to be very open to the different colors of hydrogen. We all aim for the green one. That is absolutely for sure. But we have to be open, especially with regard to the North Sea, to the blue one as well, because maybe it can help to foster the initial ramp up and paves the way for the green one that we are all aiming for. So we have to be very flexible on that as well. Next one is, or the last two ones I would like to title is financing. There is only one hint, the amortization account model is great, but I would like to give you the hint: aim for higher return of equity and lower self-retention, because that is really, we have to shape attractive markets and therefore the investors have to bring the money and we have to work on that. Means we have to find financing regimes not only the national countries, we have to find it internationally, besides the cross-border cost allocation that we know, we have to find something on top of it. And my last point is let's keep on delivering projects so that we really live hydrogen is now.

Well I would go back to the evangelization about everything we are doing here. I think people need to understand better the importance of hydrogen. And I also like to remember that hydrogen is not a competitor of electricity, it's a complement. And that's for me, it's, you know, the focus on security of the systems, independence of Europe, you know, being able to be autonomous is super important. That will be the message.

I should maybe just remember one point: the integration of the development of our projects. I think it's very important to have a 360 degrees view of the projects through Europe. And so we need this integration and we need to go on working together in order to create this consistent development of H2 and CCU projects. Thank you.

Yeah, I think maybe two comments. I think we connect, so without the infrastructure these markets cannot start, and connect in the integrated energy system, because if you do it well you actually save cost and you increase security. And I think don't let great be the enemy of good. We have to just get going. We want to create the hydrogen market, yes, we all want to get to green, but at the moment we're not getting enough and quickly enough to anything. So, let's not let great be the enemy of good, and let's keep on moving forward.

I would like to reiterate my attractiveness, competitivity, make it as cheap as possible on top of what Rodrigo was saying. We need the, and then it will be heard and the voice will be there if we can make it attractive commercially for the industry, it will all go by itself, there will be demanding party for us to speed up. And this is still a hurdle we need to take.

There are a lot of hurdles in the hydrogen ramp up and we must not forget that we have just started. Let's keep on going and let's do it.

Thank you. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Brilliant. Ladies and gentlemen, it's a great pleasure to be here with you today and to thank Enagás, the whole team, for putting together such a timely and important event. It may be still snowing outside, but seeing all of you in the room together and kicking off 2026 in force, I think more than makes up for the weather. Now, Arturo very generously entrusted me with wrapping up the morning program and it's a tough act to follow, but I will take the opportunity to reflect on some of the key themes that we heard throughout the morning and offer a perspective from the Hydrogen Council. The Hydrogen Council brings together some 140 companies from 20 different countries around the world, including our gracious hosts and several of you in the audience here today. Thank you. What we do, our members really cover the whole value chain and together, as you can see, they represent trillions in market capitalization, millions in jobs and most importantly a shared belief that hydrogen has and continues to have a key role to play in the energy transition.

I'll spend the next few minutes talking about global hydrogen progress. The good, the bad, the let's call it complex, and most importantly, the actions that we need to take to keep hydrogen moving forward. Now, let me start by acknowledging that the discussion in this room is very sophisticated. Out there, we face an entirely different type of conversation. Just look at the headlines. Noise, confusion, misperception, continued skepticism around issues such as cost, projects not moving forward. It seems that hydrogen is not progressing well at all. Now, as I listen to you this morning, I have the exact opposite impression and that is because of a simple fact. The conversation is anchored in real data. We're talking about real projects, real buildout. And I think that is absolutely fundamental. So at the Hydrogen Council, we've been tracking global developments for the last five years. Every single publicly announced project out there, we have it in our database and we look at it every quarter, every year to see what is actually happening in hydrogen. And Arturo, you mentioned some of the key numbers already. $110 billion committed to hydrogen. That's projects past final investment decision. So real firm investment commitments. 510 projects around the world have taken that important decision, moved into commissioning, construction, commissioning, operation. That's real progress. And let's be clear, there's natural attrition, of course, not every idea ultimately succeeds, but 510, that's something to be proud of. And perhaps the last number I'll add, one to what Arturo already alluded to, the 10x, the 10x growth we have witnessed in the last 5 years from 10 to 110 billion. That's a trajectory very few sectors can show. So well done, thank you for building. And Arturo, as you said, keep calm, keep building, keep going, because we need to keep the trajectory moving.

Now you may have heard me speak about these numbers before. What I want to do differently today is to look at the real stories behind them, because these are not just facts. These are real projects, hard hats on, steel in the ground, and people who are building day in day out and doing that hard work of actually making hydrogen happen. So let me invite you on a little tour around the world where we will take a look with pictures on some of the key projects that have announced major milestones in just the last few weeks and months. Let's take a look. Beaumont, a large clean ammonia project in Texas, now 97% complete, moving into commissioning. NEOM, we're all aware, in the Middle East, one of the largest renewable hydrogen projects, now over 90% complete. Lingan in Germany, targeting commissioning and operation later this year. Holland Hydrogen One in the Netherlands, a massive renewable hydrogen project nearing completion. ACES Delta, a big hydrogen storage project, another critical component, 95% complete. Bowden, the renewable steel plant, now 60% complete. Now I'm not saying that these projects are without challenge, that it's a walk in the park, but what I'm saying is that it's done, it's been done, and these are real physical proofs of the fact that it's happening. Now Arturo was right with one more item, and that is we are now past that big wave of FIDs. I think we will see a bit of a slowdown as we all focus on actually building things out, but the industry will most likely reach another massive milestone this year. And that is a record volume of commissioned and operational capacity. And that is huge. That is yet another step forward. No longer PowerPoints, but real projects, real operational capacity.

Now here in Spain, Spain is a very real and great example of the fact that the buildout is really underway. The pipeline, as we track it in the Hydrogen Council, is among the world's most active, dynamic. 10 large projects past FID in Cartagena, in Extremadura, in Huelva. Obviously, we have heard a lot about the corridor, which is such a vital component of Europe's success as a whole. So, I want to congratulate Spain for not only talking about hydrogen, but really building it. Well done. Now, at the Hydrogen Council, we believe there's never been a more important time to actually build hydrogen and keep up that work. We have heard from several speakers today and I think it's so important that hydrogen is not only being looked at as a climate tool but a truly strategic tool for security, for resilience, for sovereignty. And we know that geopolitical shocks, from price volatility, spikes, reshaping global alliances, again we all read it in the news every day, have taught us one very important lesson, and that is that relying on a single source, on a single solution, leaves us vulnerable. It's a source of vulnerability that we cannot afford. And clean hydrogen brings us options. It gives us options, better leverage of domestic resources, new connections, new partnerships, opportunities, way of thinking, and opportunities for the economy as well as the people on the ground.

Now, let me quote something that we heard at the World Economic Forum in Davos last week. It was German Chancellor Merz who reminded us during his speech that Europe's power today relies on three pillars: our security, our competitiveness, and our unity. And I dare say that hydrogen directly strengthens all of these three pillars. Let's look at Spain. Spain's abundant wind and solar resources combined with its growing hydrogen infrastructure and project pipeline position the country as a contributor not only to the energy transition and its own benefits but to Europe as a whole. Later today, I believe after the coffee break, we will hear from the European Commission's Executive Vice President, Teresa Ribera. Some of the key decisions that will shape the future of hydrogen in Europe are in her hands, in the European Commission's hands. Last year we heard a lot about the Clean Industrial Deal, with which the Commission signaled its intent to really drive industrial competitiveness. And in just a few weeks, we hope it will not be postponed again, we should be receiving the proposal of the Industry Accelerator Act that should introduce a really critical tool that should help us move forward. Bamin, you spoke about it with strength and passion, and that's the lead markets, really a key tool to drive the next generation of clean industrial solutions in Europe, powered by hydrogen and derivatives. Now let me be very, very clear about one thing: that action is just the beginning. We need a lot more and we need it absolutely urgently.

The reality is that although there is a lot to celebrate and there are things moving here in Europe, we've heard numerous examples here today, the developments in Europe are dwarfed by what's happening around the world. We'll hear later today about China. China absolutely dominates the charts when it comes to total investment, when it comes to renewable capacity. This is followed by North America. We see a lot of dynamic from markets such as India. Again, a huge opportunity and they are moving forward at speed and scale. So in Europe, in contrast, while we see all of that goodwill and ambition and, you know, hard work every day, companies are facing real challenges: unclear, impractical rules, permitting delays, soft demand signals, uncertainty, slow execution, the list goes on and on. And that's a lived reality for many of our businesses, many of you in this room. That is directly hampering our ability to get things done. So what are the solutions? What should we be doing now and in 2026 to make things better, to address some of the challenges? You've already heard very eloquently from some of the CEOs in the room and we at the Hydrogen Council have the great privilege to bring together more than 140 of them. Just last month, we had a chance to meet together in South Korea to really take stock of what's going on and propose together an aligned set of priorities. The meeting took place under a very powerful theme. We really tried to take on the responsibility to lead, build, and deliver global hydrogen progress. And here are the five items that our CEOs aligned on. And I think it's a great summary of many of the topics that we heard about this morning.

Demand. What we need. We need firm binding targets, quotas, offtake commitments, and industrial demand frameworks that give investors and developers the confidence that they can build. Let's be very clear, promises do not move capital. Certainty does. Now Europe has a huge opportunity when it comes to demand. It is in theory projected to be the world's number one demand center. But it all depends on whether it can continue that courageous leadership and actually follow through on those promises. It's the implementation of RED III. It's the implementation of ETS. It's the implementation of CBAM. If we get this done, Europe will lead. If we do not get this done, Europe will not lead. It's extremely simple. Which brings us to the second item, policy. Policy must be clear, predictable, and durable. I want to build on what was said earlier this morning and encourage us all to really speak honestly, and look critically at all the things that we have put in place, all the rules that we have put in place since 2020. Which of them are still fit for purpose in a changed world? Which of them need to be changed? And we're not advocating for a wholesale U-turn. That would be a terrible mistake. But what I'm saying is that if we know that something's not working, let's be clear and honest about it, rip the band-aid, fix it, and move on. So that we give everybody the space and the time to do their part, to give the businesses the space and time to build. Let me give one example, one word. CBAM again. You have seen the headlines over the last few weeks. A great, in quotation marks, example of how to undermine investor certainty and confidence. If we start wavering on some of the fundamental principles that drive clean hydrogen and clean energy uptake, this is not a path to success. So we hope that the European Commission really, really takes this on and helps us fix and bring back the calm and clarity in the market.

Now infrastructure, our third point. We've just had a brilliant panel so I do not need to say much more than that hydrogen and its infrastructure fundamentally changes the way we connect supply and demand and it offers us incredible opportunity to think in new ways, to be flexible, to be more secure and more resilient. Now, Rodrigo I believe made the case extremely, extremely clear. Now, common standards and certification, not as much of a problem here in the room, here in Spain and just within Europe, but very much so. If we want to be part of the global market, we absolutely need common language for how we define, measure, verify, and value the properties of our molecules so we can start doing business. That is really, really critical. And finally, very much last but not least, strong partnerships. Let me say very clearly and echo what was said earlier this morning that hydrogen is a system solution. Hydrogen is a system solution and it's a team sport. Its success will come from collaboration, integration. I believe Pascal used the word integration, which I believe is very powerful here, between the industry, the government, across the borders, across the value chain. And you all in this room are living examples of that principle. So in conclusion, my message to you all before we take coffee, relax, and have more conversations is this.

Europe has all the ingredients to be extremely successful when it comes to hydrogen. Europe has the industrial base, the skilled workforce, the innovation capacity, the renewable resources, and the strategic imperative to lead on hydrogen deployment and be a key player in the global market. Spain and other countries are proving that it is possible, that it's doable, that it's happening. It's happening every day. However, global markets like China, India and others are showing us how much further and how much faster we can and frankly we must go to stand a chance. This is not about grand vision or perfection. This is about concrete, practical actions that we take every day, that we take now to lock in demand, align policy, and build. Keep calm, stay focused, keep building. I think that theme really resonates. So I'll leave you with another quote from Chancellor Merz in Davos. Our fate is in our hands. It is our responsibility to shape it. So to all of you, let's do it. Thank you.

Good afternoon everyone. Thank you to Enagás for this nice Hydrogen Day. It's a great moment to talk about delivery, not only ambition. This morning we talked about infrastructure and the European hydrogen backbone. And one idea is very clear: Europe needs hydrogen corridors. If Spain wants to connect to the north of Europe, France is the key link, the bridge between south and north. So now we will look at the French hydrogen ecosystem. What's really happening on the ground? What's working and what is still difficult. I'm very happy to welcome our speaker today, Frank, CEO at Hy24. Thank you. Thank you very much for being here with us today.

Thank you for greeting me here.

So my first question is, let's be very simple at the beginning. Earlier today we mentioned that Spain is moving fast in hydrogen, maybe even faster than France. Why do you think that is?

But the fundamentals of Spain, its resources, its issues on its long-term policy are very aligned with the European ambition. So it helps a lot. First, you de facto have an existing hydrogen production which is bigger than France. So you've got issues to decarbonize as much as the other big countries. And you're also very much into refining, which is easier to decarbonize because you pass easier the price to the transport system downstream. The second is that the renewable power is so huge. The potential is so massive that you cannot absorb it alone. So you need a vector. So hydrogen is the perfect vector to basically move it forward and move it abroad. And as you're the cheapest and the most competitive, maybe with the Nordics for renewable, the natural is to push it to the north. And the result of that is that it's a question of contrast, because when I looked at the figures of the effective level of deployments between France and Spain, we're relatively at the same level. Today you have roughly 40 megawatt up and running, you've 200 coming soon, a couple of, I think 9 gigawatt in a feed. I think the Spanish government has spent or committed roughly 3.5 billion. So it's good. You're not the best. You're I think the third in Europe. But what's different is the trajectory. In 2020, your ambition, I remember Arturo at the time also, your ambition globally was for Spain to develop 4 gigawatt of hydrogen. Today it's 12.

At the same time if we move to France, French, we speak a lot. Sometimes we do a bit less after. So that's the issue. So when we discovered, when I think thanks to the support and the push for a couple of companies, France discovered the virtues of hydrogen and suddenly we are the best of the world. So okay, but and they came with a policy which was to basically invest 9 billion of support schemes for France. In between, a couple of political disarray came, politics moved for a bit more into short-term focus, budgetary topics, and in fact today only 2.7 billion have been committed to the industry, which is in fact not so bad, it's the same as Spain. We have 50 megawatt up and running, I think 200 going to start next year. The number of projects in development represents 1 million ton, so even more than what France produces. So it's not so bad. The problem is that it started with 9 billion, only 2.7 has been effectively enacted, and the massive support schemes that are enabling the deployment of green hydrogen linked to RED III have only started now and it was promised 30 months ago. So when you have that, of course you're basically in pause or in a stall mode and that's difficult. The other thing that I would mention on France compared to Spain is that there is a small push on mobility that remains, but it's more the result of private entrepreneurs than a specific public push. And then for the comparison, I think the big topic is the transposition of the rules. So in fact it's a bit interesting because even if this very complex environment in France where we have no budget still, I'm sorry but that's the fact, and no real view of where we want to go on those national energy, the RED III transposition is being moving, mostly focused on transport. It's not fast enough, but it's a problem for the whole of Europe, but it's moving. And the first tender for contract for difference for green hydrogen has been launched now, so that's at least we are moving a bit. Spain on that side, I think it's now moving into the legislative approval, the RED III transposition. It's focused on transport, but Spain is doing something, and I don't know if the commissioner is listening to us, but Spain is doing something that should be the case for RED III regulation, is enabling that green hydrogen done in industry can be accounted for transport, because the value chain of the over cost of the premium of green hydrogen transport is far easier to pass to the final consumer than an industry, and then you get to the issue with the green fertilizer etc. So enabling that kind of use is a very elegant way to move both sectors together and I would like that other countries inspire themselves from what Spain is doing on that side.

Yeah, I agree. The transposition of the regulation is the key and here in Spain we are also following the RED III transposition very closely because it directly impacts mobility and industrial markets. Do you think, this morning we have been talking about geopolitics from the very beginning, do you think the current geopolitical situation will accelerate the issues in France?

It's a good question. Everybody smiles when talking about politics because they know I'm usually a bit abrupt. So I think that it would be good that it starts by waking up and getting its act together on the European level because the response to what's going on is not a national one, is a European one. And it's a sovereignty, resilience, and autonomy. And sovereignty doesn't start only by building tanks, but it's also being sovereign on energy. And Europe has the best ever ambition on the topic but it has been lost in transposition, lost in translation if you wish as well. It's been six years since RED II, RED III regulations have been discussed and they are still not transposed, only four countries. So I think the geopolitical situation, I have the feeling, is triggering a bit of a wakeup call. And if it can accelerate indeed those European-driven projects like the European backbone, if Europe could take maybe even a stronger steer to make it happen, it would probably help. It could also to stop the endless disputes between some countries and others or whether nuclear is needed or not. Maybe France would be a bit more collaborative. France is currently discovering, and that's part of the geopolitics, it's currently discovering that it's not so easy to rebuild its nuclear industry if the demand does not move. And the demand to move is very dependent on the geopolitics, is to find paths with the Chinese. Do we get Chinese electric cars? And if yes, do we produce some of them in Europe to drive the demand for electricity. Second, do we want to be more resilient in fuel? So we need to do sustainable fuel. For that you need more hydrogen produced in the European countries that will drive the demand for electricity. Third, do we want to relocate the data management, which is data centers, that's also electricity demand. So with that France maybe will look better and re-accelerate its vision for hydrogen deployment because it's driving, if you take the calculation, the mass basically, nuclear is 360 terawatt hour in France in base load and the hydrogen demand that was expected could increase by 40 to 60 terawatt hour. So it's significant. It's three to four gigawatt. So three to four reactors. So I think if geopolitics simplify a bit the debate on what's important and what is critical. So let's find an agreement between nuclear and the rest, then it will certainly ease all the European backbone between Germany and France and it will accelerate everything. And I hope geopolitics is going to maybe get everybody focused to the European solution to that and then maybe soften the dynamic for hydrogen as well.

Absolutely agree. This morning in fact the chairman of Enagás was mentioning the role of energy in geopolitics as well as defense and other key sectors. One question: what's the role of Hy24 between France and Spain? Or do you act as a catalyst? Because I know that you are being a catalyst for...

Very efficient catalyst as you can see, because the backbone is moving very fast between France and Spain. We are trying in fact to pass those messages to the French policymakers to tell them this is a fundamental help for you. It's also going to help the nuclear industry because you will have an arbitrage tool between renewable, nuclear and the rest. It's going to release the pressure you have because even if it's not enough, rebuilding 10 or 15 reactors is a massive financial, industrial and policy challenge for them. So having a bit of hydrogen coming to release the pressure is good, is going to enable to competitively decarbonize some of our chemical platform. So we're trying to pass a message. We had Arturo come to do a couple of messages to the key people of the, I would say, the palace and the other key ministries. We're also trying to explain what we understand to our Spanish friends and colleagues. We are, as you know, co-investor in Enagás. So we are very, it's fundamental for us because first we have many projects together and part of the future of those developers, Enagás and others, is this export capabilities because 2 million ton, it's 20 gigawatt. And so if we don't make that happen, it's not good for Spain, it's not good for Europe, and it's not good for us.

Okay, time is running because of the agenda. We just have 10 minutes. So, please, one final takeaway.

I think that for Spain and for France, playing the European hydrogen game is in fact the best way to expand the horizon of their energies. And it's only benefits, but just they need to now get their act together because the pressure around us, the competitiveness of the other geographies is just gigantic. You will hear I guess later today on China. If we, we cannot continue just to take six years to deliver regulations, that's not possible. So let's move as you...

Thank you.

Christina, director of the political.

CEO Hydrogen Europe, Francisco Flor.

Good morning. We have what, 25 minutes has been produced the time. I'm quite happy to moderate this panel, this session. The title, as it's good to remember, is Europe committed to renewable hydrogen to promote competitiveness and decarbonization. Then I feel that in the previous session, particularly in the conversation with the vice president, the scene has been set up already. So we can go and deep dive and elaborate on the visions that three persons representing the European Commission, the operators, and the complete industry are here. So I try, in these cases I try to start with the conclusions and by the aim, just in case we don't have time for that. And I'm saying that our goal is then to deliver strong messages about Europe's unwavering commitment to renewable hydrogen with a particular focus on the urgent need to transpose the hydrogen and decarbonized gas market package into national legislation. And with the conclusion also taking from what has been said before that without infrastructure there is not a hydrogen market, and the Commission's continued support for these networks is essential. And the final remark I usually just deliver here is the hydrogen infrastructure, the building of hydrogen infrastructure is a no-regret option. It's a no-regret option. So let's go ahead. We start, we try to have a couple of questions each. Start with Christina, just the vision from the Commission and just to elaborate on how will the hydrogen and decarbonized gas market package into the national transposition accelerate the green hydrogen.

Thank you. Thank you very much, Paco. And before starting, I would like to thank Enagás, Francisco, and Arturo for inviting DG Energy once again to the fourth day of hydrogen and renewable hydrogen. Thank you very much. It's difficult for me after having listened to our Executive Vice President Teresa Ribera, but from my perspective, DG Energy, I think that it is more clear than ever how producing, as the vice president said, homegrown energy is relevant and is very relevant in the current geopolitical context. I think that we'll have to dedicate maybe one whole day to elaborate on the current geopolitical context, but it's clear that the dramatic experience on our energy dependencies, Arturo, you mentioned Russian gas and how after three years we are now getting rid of this gas, so we need more than ever homegrown energies. The president of the Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, she mentioned basically renewables and nuclear, and obviously hydrogen is essential in an energy mix by 2050 when we want to achieve decarbonization. So hydrogen, I have been said here in previous interventions. So we need hydrogen for transport and for those sectors that are very difficult to abate. And how the Commission has supported this market, I think that there are three main layers of support that is very important to highlight in this session today. The first one is that we are the first continent that we have adopted a complete regulatory framework, and this obviously gives predictability to investment. There is no investment if we don't have a solid regulatory framework, and this is the experience that we see in other international partners. The second point is financing. We understand that for a market that is still nascent, even if every day, every year we have more progress, but we need to support financially this market, and this is a commitment that comes from the Commission but also from member states. If we look into the Innovation Fund, the Hydrogen Bank, the Connecting Europe Facility, today we count with more than 38 billion euros supporting the hydrogen, the low-carbon hydrogen market in the European Union, in particular renewable hydrogen. And the third element, that is something, is a mechanism that we have developed in the Commission very recently, is the multi-energy product platform, including hydrogen and its derivatives, ammonia, e-fuels, that consists on giving more transparency to the market. So to put together the producers of hydrogen and the buyers in order to have more information about who will be the offtakers in the European Union and how to match these offtakers with internal domestic production of hydrogen in the European Union but also production from third countries. So I think that the three layers give, in my view, a very complete framework that makes sure that from the European Commission there is no doubt on the very strong support that we want to give to renewable hydrogen in the European Union.

Thank you, Christina. Now to Kristoff. Kristoff, as presented, is the chair, the president of the European Network of Hydrogen Operators, and is an operator, an important operator in Germany. 40 companies are roughly speaking in the association, so that the full European panorama is in the association. Then for you, first question is about what role should the future European hydrogen network and corridors, like for instance H2Med, we are here, play in building this competitive market?

Yeah, thanks Francisco. I think it's not what should they play, I think the question is what will they play, and they will play a very essential role. And especially H2Med will be, as one of the most advanced hydrogen corridors in Europe, will play a very important role. If you think about the system for the hydrogen economy, this will be, the import corridors will be the veins of the whole system, or maybe to be more precise, the arteries of the system, and therefore have a very central role. Because if you think about why do we do all this with the hydrogen, it's because hydrogen is an energy vector where you can move energy easily and very efficiently, cheaply via large distances, and you can store it. This only makes sense if you have the necessary infrastructure for it. And I think it gets even more and more important because as we heard before, we started with the ideas, okay, if you want to move around energy all over Europe, it's a question of a European market, you have a larger market which is more efficient than lots of small markets, the let's call it typical European market rationale. Then the next argument was, and still is valid, sustainability. So we want to decarbonize the industry, and therefore this market, this very well-connected interlinked market is necessary. And I think, even though it has been mentioned before, it can't be stressed enough, looking to the last two, three years, the topic of resilience, of energy sovereignty has really gained of importance. And maybe we are here in Spain where it's not as present, but when talking to the other TSOs, especially more to the east of Europe, if I talk to my Finnish colleagues or from the Baltic states, energy resilience and the topic of homegrown energy and not being dependent on somebody else is there a completely different materiality as you might see it here in the let's call it far west. And you already mentioned ENNOH, so only a few words what's ENNOH doing now. It's 36 hydrogen network operators, mainly the TSOs from 26 countries. So every country from the European Union joined there. Only Malta is still a little bit reluctant, but they are lacking a gas grid and therefore for them it's pretty small, it's not really a topic. But everybody else is sitting around the table. And Pascal already asked for kind of architect designing this European grid. As you know, I think we are the platform for this architecture because we are bringing together all the different hydrogen network operators for a joint planning and as well in coordination with EU institutions like the EU Commission but as well with ACER. We make it happen that we have one view, one grid, one design. And besides the planning, I think the operational issues, it's called grid codes, sounds very technical, but that's the daily doing, how can this work. Especially I see colleagues from Spain, colleagues from France here. I would like to remind what about the railway tracks. If you don't start right in the beginning taking care of these small operational details of these interoperability and even the network code interoperability sounds very bureaucratic. On the other hand, we don't want to end up with railway tracks in adjacent countries with different widths and therefore not to let this happen with the hydrogen. That's as well a task of ENNOH.

Thank you. Thank you, Kristoff. Next is Jorgo. Jorgo represents an association, the European association where you gather 600 or more companies along all the value chain. So you know very well what happens here. You are considered as the champion of the hydrogen, the rock star of the hydrogen, or even some other things that are said about you. In fact, I was scared about moderating this with Jorgo because you may say Jorgo, hello hydrogen, and he can fill the rest of the day and the phone today. But he promised that it's also quite, can be very concrete. And then with just a couple of questions allowing you to say whatever you want is what happens usually. First question is...

Thank you, and I call you by your nickname Paco. Thank you very much. I would like to start with a big thanks to of course Enagás and especially Arturo. These changes, ladies and gentlemen, don't happen by coincidence. They don't happen without people, without persons, without personalities, without characters. Arturo is the real rockstar because Arturo... and I will tell you why. The Spanish people here in the room know that he has won big awards as a writer. He has written historical books about Hannibal, about the Hannibal time. These are books about power, about networks, about space, about alliances, about resilience. And it describes what happens ever and ever again in history. And this what you describe centuries ago is the case today. I heard a lot in this room about resilience. You have a historical view on it, but you live it every day because nobody else, it takes courage. It takes a lot of things to build all this. The fourth hydrogen day, especially Ivana mentioned it, in a time where everybody is negative, where we hear from the Commission, maybe we gave too much money. He insists and he gave the most important job to build the most important part. This is the barmen thing to Paco. So you guys are my real heroes. You describe heroes in your historical books. But let's say it clearly. If you don't take resilience as the obvious thing as it is and just talk, we fail. Let's take the Spanish example. What happened last year? Last year was a year where there was a political debate about a blackout, but there was a blackout. It was not Eastern Europe and it was not cut of energy supply. It was too much energy supply of a certain way of energy. So our job is not just to continue things. We all talk about urgency, urgency. I love to hear this in Spanish, but it's really urgent. I lived a blackout last weekend that was very local. We saw in Berlin five days in Berlin, capital of one of the biggest industrial countries, and you cannot fix it. So resilience is much more than just talking about a little bit of defense and a little bit of security of supply. It's bringing not the best technology but the right technologies together in a system to let electrons and molecules work together. And it's not easy. And the Spanish example shows us that we need to work upon it. Not ideologically. I saw the debate here in Spain. It was a little bit politically ideological. No, we don't need that. We want to have homegrown energies like Commission President, like Teresa Ribera said. But we need to manage them. And you describe in your novels that sometimes it's the periphery that becomes more important than the center. And this is the case. Iberia, Iberian Peninsula is a periphery of Europe, but it becomes the powerhouse of green hydrogen. My ancestors come from Greece. I would wish that they would have the same vision. They don't. They now found gas and oil and they have the help of the Americans. They will make their way. Spain is insisting and this is courageous and this needs more support. By the way, the other periphery is the Nordics. So we have two big areas in Europe, Iberian Peninsula and the Nordics that will help us to bring homegrown energies to us but it needs to be connected. Last word Paco and then I stop.

I told you, never disappointing.

On Monday we had, I had the opportunity and the honor to be part of this North Sea summit. So Spain is not part of it. France is participating. So France was there very strong. However, they want to ramp up by 120 gigawatts until 2030 the windmills. Super. By the way, in 2030 they curtailed a quarter of the energy they curtailed. So we pay something which is then lost. This would not be the case if you mix, if you mesh so to say the technology. So electrons and molecules. That's what you are advocating here. That's what we need to do much faster. And by the way, but I say that in the second, all these wind turbines are built by steel. And what green steel means for you as the basically the transmission system operators because you need customers, I'll come up with it later on. Thank you.