I've realized over time that like I'm fundamentally like a sales guy.
You are. We all are. That's the other thing. Go with that. We all are. I don't care where you are. You got to sell yourself to get your job. You got to sell yourself to do your job.
Well, that's such an important point. And I've actually done little courses with students about pitching.
Because it's like you are always pitching all the time.
Absolutely. Like I love there's all these great clips from Mad Men of Don Draper making these pitches and it's like you realize that when you're going, you know, even if you're not pursuing a sales job, you have to sell your prospective employer, the person that's thinking about hiring you.
You have to sell your boss on the opportunity to try to do that thing that's going to head to the promotion. Like you're selling, you're always selling. You're always needing to be at the most basic level. I sort of feel like you really have two paths in every decision in a way. It's not the only way to think about things. Persuasion or coercion. I know this is the most libertarian way to talk about this, but there is like you can either find a way to sort of apply pressure,
All the way up to theft with a gun, which is I know the libertarian typical like that's just theft. Or you can try to persuade somebody, convince them that they should do something with you, for you in exchange for what you're going to do for them.
Yeah. Does sales make us better people, do you think?
Well, it can. Like anything. It's again, it's another tool. It's another vocation that can help us if it's done well. You know, does it make you a better person? If I'm really genuinely trying to serve you and provide value for you in whatever capacity that is, whatever I'm pitching, if I'm trying to do that for my employer, I'm trying to help my employer be better. Yeah, it makes a better person because I'm thinking outside of myself. Will I get a commission? Sure. There's a level of enlightened self-interest, but I'll have more income longer term if I do this well. If I'm on the service side, not the coercion side. You know, if I'm trying to make a repeat sale, you know, if I have the opportunity to have somebody come back again or create good satisfaction for my company or my business, whatever it may be. So I think anything... I think it's up to your attitude. Anything you're doing, do it well and grow in it. Whatever it is, you know, look what you're doing here. You do it well. You're growing. You're learning. You're expanding.
You're trying. We all are. But look at what you've accomplished. Look what you've done in other areas in your life. You know, it's because you've approached it with this mindset. The way I view it is that you've approached it with a mindset of how do I serve others? How do I provide a service? How do I fulfill the promises I'm making? And how do I learn and grow so I can do it better next time.
I think part of why I want to talk about sales is that in so many ways, what you just articulated is the moral case for free enterprise.
It's like a buddy of mine, Ley, is the first person in my life that said it this way. He may not have coined it. He probably didn't, but he's a smart guy. He basically said capitalism is the only moral system because it is the only one that requires you to give before you can receive. You have to serve. It's why we call it customer service. You have to serve in order to be served. And it's like it's very rare to encounter people that intuitively understand that. It's weirdly unintuitive even though sales put you on the front line of this. Especially like if you're a... I used to wait tables. I actually waited tables in college at Trump Marina. It was Trump Castle. It was the hotel in Atlantic City. Every so often I'd see Donald Trump walk back and forth. This was in like '99.
So this is long before even the TV show. Like, being a waiter is really a hard job to do well.
Absolutely. They got all these tables and everybody's got their thing and oh my gosh, if it's breakfast, everybody has their coffee and their bread and their toast and they want it rye and they want it dry and it's like...
And you're in the service business. Absolutely. That's what you call it. It's the service business. Is that how you think about free enterprise? What's the macro lesson for you about the free enterprise system?
Yeah. Well, the macro lesson for me is that it's an exchange. It's a free exchange. It's a free market. You know, I can buy that or I cannot buy it. I can go to your place of business or I cannot. I have decisions and choices and I'm going to go if you provide me the value I'm looking for. And if you do that better than the other alternatives that I have. So, you're always in there having to sell yourself and create value. Business, that's why I come back to you. Business on a whole is a social good because you can't be successful at business if you're not providing value ultimately. You might get away with things for a couple years, but you're not going to be able to build something of value long term if you're not providing value by this product or service that you're selling. And so in many ways, if we apply the principles of free enterprise to charity or if we apply them in other areas, and if you think of free enterprise not only in the business context but you think of it in the personal context, from the community context, I am free to find whatever solution I can find that adds value for somebody else. And if I can do that, I'll probably get rewarded in some way, shape, or form. And that will encourage me to create more and better solutions for people. And so I'm a huge advocate for free enterprise. You know, that's what happens rather than coercion or rather than limiting the options that people have.
So we, you know, Amway opened in Ukraine I think in 2000 and it was not too far past Chernobyl. There was a few people still there who remember and I remember being in Kiev with some of the folks who were working there who lived in the east, in Eastern Europe, and they telling the stories of how they would, you know, they were limited. They had no option for what to buy or what to get and especially in food. And they said, you know, this year the Czechs forgot to grow the beans. I can't remember the exact, but it was something like, you know, they did a terrible job. This is what the government told them. The Czechs forgot to grow the beans, so you're not going to get beans. But your government loves you so much, we're going to get everybody an orange for Christmas. And I said, 'Really?' They said, 'Yeah, really.' That's what it was. So, you know, apparently someone had to coerce the Czechs to growing the beans. Obviously, they either weren't good at it or they didn't like it or whatever the case may be. Again, I may have that wrong, but you get the principle.
