Thank you for accepting my invitation to talk about our first budget every month, the one for housing. You are at the head of the largest real estate developer in France, Nexity. The difficulties of the construction sector have put many house-building projects on hold. There are lifelong projects for some French people that they had to give up on. Is it starting up again?
It's starting up a little bit on the homeownership side, thanks to lower interest rates and the zero-interest loan. On the other hand, and I've been saying this for three years, investment in real estate remains completely at a standstill. People are no longer making the project. Developers? Yes, because basically, the Pinel scheme masked the fact that real estate investment in this country is overtaxed. It's not profitable today to buy housing to rent to a family. This is a major problem for this country, and it hasn't been resolved. Two years ago, Elisabeth Borne said that in the next finance bill, we would take measures and it would be a treated problem. We're at the same point. They're ending the Pinel scheme while the problem is on the table, and that's major for our sector. We really need investment—when an individual decides to invest in housing, there has to be a return for them. It's normal that it's worth it.
But it's a real warning you're giving this morning, because the consequences are terrible for households, for families looking to house themselves, to be able to rent an apartment or a house. The warning still hasn't been heard. We imagine that in the current budget context, it will be even less so.
The warning has been heard. I think that I was with the mayors of France last week, and we clearly see a real awareness among mayors that the private housing stock is shrinking, and therefore we have even more people at the entrance to social housing. So I think the consensus on this subject exists today, but we really need to address this issue. Valérie Létard told us there might be a temporary measure on donations, but we need to address the fundamental problem of this overtaxation. We don't want exceptional measures; we just want to be treated like other investments, so that families can also find housing, because at the end of the chain, that's the question.
Is construction starting up again?
Well, there's no reason for it to start up again right now. Anyway, if we sell better now—which has been the case over the last two months—we'll see the effect of this recovery in six months to a year. You know that the real estate sector is very, very slow. And for now, we're seeing job destruction in the construction industry. But honestly, I said it two and a half years ago—I was on this set two and a half years ago and I said, 'Watch out, given what I see today, here's what's going to happen.' I must say that, roughly speaking, what I told you two and a half years ago is unfolding calmly, and in the proportions I had predicted.
One point is that the zero-interest loan until now was quite restricted. It seems it's going to be opened up again, extended to the whole territory and to new houses that had been excluded from it. Is that a very good signal for you?
Well, I think first of all it's a very good social sign. I was very shocked by that measure because it basically told French people living in what are called 'relaxed zones' that they no longer had the right to a zero-interest loan to buy new housing. That was a terrible signal we were sending to part of the territory. We were sending a second terrible signal by saying we no longer support first-time buyers in individual houses, who were, for the most part, very modest buyers coming out of the social housing system. I found the measure socially terrible. So I think it's a very good measure. We need to treat French people across the territory fairly and equitably.
Does that mean that the model of the individual house, which had been decreed four or five years ago, notably by the housing minister who at the time said this model is outdated, behind us—does the government today finally realize that it remains an important dream for the French?
Of course it remains an important dream for the French. I think we need to trust the mayors. We've clearly seen the demand from mayors for individual houses; it's not at all the same as five years ago. That is, there's more mix between collective and individual housing. The individual houses are smaller, land consumption is much more restricted. So let the mayors do their job; they're already constrained by the SRU law. And for pity's sake, let the French dream of homeownership and the life they want.
The notary fees will increase for everyone except first-time buyers. Does that remain a good signal?
Me, honestly, this announcement—my jaw dropped, I can't say otherwise. We clearly see that the French, as you said earlier, have had their real estate plans blocked for two years. Frankly, they count every euro to become homeowners, and suddenly they're told, 'We're going to tax you more.' I don't understand this measure. I don't understand it.
You don't understand it. I'll ask the question later to the Minister of the Economy, since I'm receiving Antoine Armand. On the question also of this political situation: we heard Michel Barnier say that if the budget wasn't voted, it could become like Greece, in a way. We also learn that since yesterday, France is borrowing at the same interest rate level as Greece.
