A good designer does not work for the payday. He works for the fun. He works for his ego, for his pride to do the next big thing. And the best way to do it is to get him to do the great projects.
Hello and welcome to the CDE podcast. Today we're speaking with Luc Donckerwolke. He's the chief design officer at Hyundai Motor Group.
Hello Luc.
Doing fine. It's always great when you are in such an environment. I mean just looking at those cars that are fascinating and you think I should have had one of those.
This is like our Disneyland, isn't it?
And we have some cars down here that you've brought along that have never left Korea. Is that correct?
Absolutely. This was the first time. We've been working a long time and then we thought, is it the right moment? Is there any interest for those cars? And then with Jens when we discussed about this event, we thought it might be the right moment. I actually have another car that I wanted to bring but we have a bit of a legal issue that we could not show it outside of Korea. So one day we will bring that one as well.
Wonderful. We have a lot to talk about, a lot to talk about with Hyundai Group and also your previous roles. But just to begin at the beginning very quickly, where are you from originally and how far back can you trace your passion for cars and design?
I am a Belgian citizen. I have a Belgian passport but I was born in Peru and I grew up in Africa and South America. So until the age of 18 I had done 10 countries. My father was a diplomat. So I am basically a citizen of the world or a nomad. My life was basically segmented in different countries, a country every year, every year a new school until the age of 18 where my parents decided it was time for me to start being serious about my future and I went to Belgium for the first time, studied engineering and left immediately after to study design in Switzerland, Art Center College of Design. And then I joined the Volkswagen Group in January '92. Made all my career in the different brands of the Volkswagen Group, from Audi to Bentley, Lamborghini, Skoda, SEAT, etc. Until 10 years ago where I joined the Hyundai Group for a new second life I would say.
We were just talking to Aim from Bugatti about his early life which was extraordinary. He was a motorcycle acrobat before he was a car designer. And we were talking about how actually, you know, the more life experience you have, the better you are at your job, especially when the job is car design. So, do you think that having traveled as much as you have, having lived as many places as you have, having your background as an engineer, does all that help your work as a designer in some way?
It does because you learn to survive in every possible environment. It doesn't matter where I am. I mean most of the time I'm in three to four continents per month, and sometimes in a week. So you have to be able to adapt to the situation but at the same time not adapt too much because you're supposed to bring something new. If you adapt you don't progress, you don't contrast things. So yes, I believe that being exposed to living in countries where we had four hours of electricity per day, and having to go hunting on the weekends, buffalo, and then learning to wear shoes every day when you go to Europe and where then learning that you have to have a winter jacket. All those things are enriching, they are allowing to develop a certain survival instinct that you need every day at work I think, absolutely in life.
Yeah. Tell me a little bit about your first job as a designer. You were part of the VW group. What was that first role like? What were some lessons you learned early?
Before that I actually did a long internship. It was supposed to be an internship. It turned out to be a short contract at Peugeot in Paris. And then I realized that it was not exactly the automotive environment I wanted. So I went back to finish my studies at Art Center and then I was contacted by Audi and joined first as an exterior designer at Audi. Was involved in motorsport projects but also production projects. My boss became responsible for Skoda design and he basically took me to Prague to a design studio that was not existent. So we first had to build a design studio to be able to work and that was again one of those Boy Scout experiences. You have to learn to do everything with a pocket knife. That was actually very helpful because I could have carried on in a well organized studio doing wheel covers for a long time until the senior designers allow you to do more. But I was thrown in colder water and by having to go to a company where there was no design studio and this experience prepared me for the future to be basically having to do everything without any means at any time. Having to improvise all the time was actually something that helped me a lot.
And super helpful I imagine for your current role as chief creative officer at Hyundai Group. Could you tell me a little bit about what the day-to-day of a chief creative officer looks like?
Well, there's one sentence I always say: I design for free and I get paid for the meetings. So basically I have to share my time between having ideas, being creative, and then managing. To be honest I'm a very bad, lousy manager because as I'm saying something I'm thinking about something else already. I'm thinking about the next step. So I'm making my team crazy because I'm always, as soon as something seems to be under control I'm thinking about the next step but my team has to execute. So it's always running behind things. But it's simply first of all which continent. Last week was the US. This week is Europe. Next week is going to be UK. So it's not Europe anymore. And then the week after is going to be Korea. So it's always having different time zones and different, and funny enough independently where I am I always end up in video conference with the guys that I just left the day before. I was just there with you. I could have stayed.
So it's simply about my team is actually trying to squeeze in meetings that allow me to give my inputs, and it doesn't matter if it's design inputs or if it's all inputs that are required to execute for instance the hospitality concept of the next 24 Hours of Le Mans where we invite VIPs. What do we do with the VIPs? Do they fly in with helicopter or not? So this is also part of what my team has to do. And it's all about going back in time all the time because I'm trying to project myself in the future for the design projects. At the same time I have the daily business which pulls me back to today or to next year. So it's always going from three years forward to today then to next year then back to three years further. Every month I have design presentations for the three brands in Korea. So I have to be updated. I have to give my inputs. I have to say no we do it like this or we don't do it like that. I prefer model A and model C. Let's do that. This is the long term. Then I have to basically go back to today and manage things that are basically related to the next event which is happening. For instance, we have an event in France in two months. So it's short-term, long-term, short-term, midterm all the time. And at the same time which continent and with whom, what audience, who is talking, and also being diplomatic and non-diplomatic. Diplomatic if you're talking about business, also different attitudes towards the cultures I'm talking to. If I'm in Korea I have to moderate my thinking. If I'm with my designers I can be more expressive. Let's say I can speak more French and swear and scream. No. But it's all adapting to different environments, different time zones all the time. And it's great. There's never a dull moment. And again, it's having to have different caps. When I'm at Hyundai, I'm basically looking at Hyundais. Then I have to forget about what I saw at Hyundai and put my Kia cap. And then I put my Genesis cap and I always have to kind of like turn the page. The same thing. And when you do a project, forget about it. It's the next one that matters. Don't try to rest on your laurels and capitalize on what you have done. Great. It doesn't matter as a designer. It's like having exams every day. So it is a very chaotic and very full time. At the same time I need my rest and I need my time to think. For instance driving this morning in the night, four hours, perfect time to think alone in the car and to kind of like put things back in place. So I need those moments. I need sometimes to forget and I think the day I think my career will be successful the day I don't need any telephone or email anymore.
We just install a little chip into your brain and you do it all with thoughts.
It's an interesting thing about being a designer. It's a creative role but if you're really good at it eventually you end up quite senior which becomes a more managerial role. Do you feel like you still get to scratch that creative itch? Obviously, you're not sat there sketching all day quite as much as you once were. Do you still feel that you get to kind of creatively satisfy yourself on a regular basis in this role?
I will never be satisfied. I mean, if I was satisfied, I think that would mean I would not be able to question myself and to do the next step. But it is the design part that interests me. The rest is important because I want things to be done right and also I am expecting a lot of efforts from the team and I cannot abandon them. I need to support them. But it's always the next idea that I'm looking for. I am enjoying my time when I'm designing something, when I'm sketching something, and I always have my sketchbook with me which never leaves me. People got used to seeing me sketching during meetings knowing that I can listen and sketch, and actually it's a better way for me to listen if I sketch. At the beginning, people thought I was not showing respect or whatever, but people got used to that now. There was a time where people were trying to get my sketches after the meeting. But I'm a designer clearly, that is my, if I cannot design anymore, I will stop. It is the only thing I'm good at. The rest I'm trying to be good enough. But I believe that this is the way I can bring something, I can be useful to the organization. It's the only way to see myself in the mirror as well is by bringing new ideas, by trying to find new ideas and that's the only thing. When I had the honor of being nominated president two and a half years ago I was worried about losing the creative aspect and I told him I need to utilize this power to support design. It's the only reason for me to accept that because otherwise I don't see myself as a president of a car company. I'm a car designer. I never wanted to be a boss and actually I refused jobs many times because I wanted to carry on being a designer. When I was at Lamborghini and I was told to take over a design studio with 45 people I said no I'm not interested I want to carry on being a designer. And at one point they told me now stop playing, you have to, you know, it's time to grow up.
Exactly, time to grow up.
And I learned to do that and I learned to be creative through my designers and to take pride into the achievements of my designers but it was difficult. And you know for me, I can only be happy if I can still see myself as a designer.
Absolutely. Well, you've been at Hyundai Group for close to 10 years now. During that time certainly two of the brands, Hyundai and Kia, have undergone the most extraordinary transformation in terms of brand perception. How much of that is down to great design do you feel?
It's a very valid question. I think the first, and it's not a political answer, but there are great designers everywhere. Generally if you have a great designer coming to the streets it means two things: you have good designers and you have good management. Most of the companies fail in doing a good design because the designers are not supported or not given the right responsibility or the right amount of power. If you have a good designer and you have a good management then you have dynamite. We have the chance. It's the first time I had this after a long career of fighting to get designs on the road where I have a chairman that challenges me. He's, every time we do three projects, three models, and he will always take the more challenging one, not the safest one. That is where I am happy where I am because I have management that basically says go further, move on. And the transformation from Hyundai Kia would have not happened without that. From the first day he told me put design upside down. Do whatever it takes to change the design of Hyundai and Kia. And it was, you know, it's a license to kill. It's something that you never have normally. Normally you join a company, and I joined quite a few, and you expect them to do a little bit of magic but don't disturb. Here I was told do whatever it takes. And this is what allowed to first design the processes, design the team, and design the DNA. So it was the three things that allowed us to do this transformation and again it's never going to be finished. My goal is now to make sure that we have enough firing power. I'm always concerned of the amount of projects we do and I'm always concerned about burning my people out because you cannot believe the rhythm of which we're going.
I mean this year how many new electric Kias, it's extraordinary. So many new models.
