Prime Minister Rama, thank you so much for being with us on Euronews in this summit. A few months ago, you wrote an op-ed with the Serbian President Alexander Vučić in which you came up with some new concepts for enlargement. You said there's a way in which you can gradually enter the Union, sit at the table, not with the full package, but be at that table willing to give up fundamental rights of a member state. What do you expect from this summit?
I don't know. Apparently, there is a written document on the table which is a French-German document.
You think they copied your idea?
No, it's not about copying. First of all, my idea was not something that came out like light in the sky because I am in this job since some time now. And I realized in the hard way sometimes that the old way will not work. So, we need to find a different approach, but there is one piece of the puzzle missing yet which I called the Helmut Kohl piece of the puzzle. Meaning politics first and then the rest follows. We should sit around the table right away and each one has to make its own work merit-based. It's a normal thing around the table. So, let me give you an example. Ursula von der Leyen, with our leader, and who at the same time is the one that has re-engaged Europe with enlargement. She has...
You think that is credit? She has really re-engaged on that.
Yeah, because before her, the previous one said there is no enlargement.
So, she has six kids. So, the kids are around the table. And then, they have to go through exams, they have to go through school, they have to go through this and that. So, it's not them deciding anything around the table, but it's them staying on the table, it's them participating in the family life. What is missing here is exactly that. You cannot say to the kids, you have to stay somewhere in the neighborhood, and when you are ready, you will come in the family. No, you are in the family, and the family will help you be ready. So, no saying, but all together.
And in specifics, that means what? That you get to participate in European Councils, access to single market, gradually more business, more money, that...
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it means everything that is written, but around the table, not separate.
So, you're saying as Edi Rama, this no longer works for me. A summit a year, this no longer works for...
Why you want... No, for me it works even without this. Because I represent Albania. We are fanatics. We are not like the others. We are the fanatics of the EU faith. There are no fanatics anymore around. We are the fanatics. So, whatever it takes, however it goes, we remain rooted in the EU faith. You understand? So, for us, there is no plan B, there is no alternative, there is nothing. The point is how to make it work in a world that is not anymore the world of some years ago. The European Union needs to be united. United politically, then the whole thing will follow and how all these mechanisms are good.
Are you willing, or ultimately this is your goal, to put in a date, to put specific numbers? Because again, for many this is completely vague. What does this mean in terms of specifics? What are deliverables that you walk out of here and you say to Albania we have accomplished something?
First of all, what is to be saluted is that there is now a huge opening. So there's not anymore... No, no, no. It's open now. Of course, it's very open and now it's about crafting it. But the question is, will it be crafted by them only and will we still be out or not? Let's take Serbia. Aleksandar Vučić can tell the Serbs, 'I will bring you to the EU.' The Serbs will say you are a stupid person because they don't want us. If he tells them, 'I am not going to bring you to the EU,' then a lot of complications start. What I mean by that is that all around the Balkans there are forces and there are third actors that are interested to push the narrative it will never happen. They will not take you in. Look at Serbia, it's not happening because of actions and decisions taken by the government. It's not external. I took it as an example. I'm saying that there... Look at Moldova. You want Moldova? Okay, Maia Sandu is telling the Moldovans, 'Come with me in Europe.' It's not happening. The alternative is Russia. She resisted two elections. The third election maybe she will not resist anymore because the Russians can say, 'Hey, are you crazy? It will never happen.' So, no. Look at Ukraine. Bring everyone around the table with the status they have each in this situation. Candidates negotiating the process should be merit-based because it helps the countries to improve. The merit-based process is not just for Europe. It's first and foremost for us. Going through the merit-based process, we strengthen our institutions. We build democratic states in countries that have missed it for a long time. This is the drill.
And what is the risk... I feel you. I feel you very much and you're very energetic about this, but what is the risk if this doesn't happen? Because we hear there is a security need. What is the risk that there's violence again in the Balkans, that there's interference from Russia? What is the risk?
Listen, it's not about what is the risk in terms of...
Well, you talked about external forces. You talked about a negative message. What are the risks?
It's not about the risk as something that will blow. It's about the corrosion of the trust in you and the watering down of the faith in this family. So, it's something that needs to be addressed politically and it's very important for you to close the political border and say this is a family. You have no room here to spread lies and to fuel hatred against you and to tell the people it will never happen because they don't want you and blah blah blah.
The counterpoint from EU citizens would be, however, we need to make sure that they are also ready to the extent that we need them. And that means serious reforms in judiciary, separation of powers, freedom of the media.
Nobody wants another Hungary. That is a point. Nothing changes. This is very clear. Nothing changes in that regard. So, you cannot have the final day of negotiations if you are not fit. You cannot have the treaty if you are not fit. You cannot have the approval of all the member states if you are not fit. But until then, you are around the table. You are part of the European Union. You understand?
And that would be called what? Associated membership? A close membership?
They would be nothing. They would be united European Union. It is all together around the table. The grandfather, the grandmother...
But how would you call that because you're not an EU country? How would you call that?
We have to switch it. We have to change this. We have to become part of the European Union family now. And then the rest will follow like the kids, like the youngsters have to step by step become a voice around the table. Have to have step by step part in the decision-making of the family. But until then, they have to grow. They have to make the exams. They have to make everything.
Are you encouraged by this Hungarian decision now on the cluster one? This is very technical again, but the symbol and the signal is that Ukraine will finally get moving. Moldova will also get moving. Does it change that Peter Magyar is at the table?
I don't think this will be... It's good. But I don't think this will be enough for the Ukrainians. It will never be enough. I don't think it will be... For Moldova, yes. Moldova should...
How do you interpret that in this paper from France and Berlin? They referred to the Balkans and Moldova, but not Ukraine. Is that the point that ultimately this country...
I don't know. I think the best way, the simplest way, the sharpest and the boldest way is to say, 'Guys, come around the table and we'll fix it step by step, year by year for each and every one of you.' And in the meantime, look at the paper. You close the chapter, you get something. You close another chapter, you get something. But it's individual. It's not all of you at the same time. But all of you at the same time, we are together because it's politics. We are a political union. We have to talk about what we do with our common defense. We have to talk about what we do with our common foreign policy. We have to talk about how we keep balance...
But that is full alignment with foreign policy with the EU. Serbia, for example, is not applying sanctions. That would be another issue.
Again, it's... Where is the difference? Why is Serbia today around the table? Because it is a candidate country aiming to become part of the European Union. So, it will not be a mistake. It will be a great advantage for both to have Serbia around the table all the way and then to tell Serbia around the table, 'Hey guys, it's not good. You have to align.' But for them it will be much easier to align if they will finally realize that they are part of the European Union and they have to grow up in the role and to be fully endorsed by everything that has to do with the European Union.
The last time we spoke you also made a point very clear that was controversial. You said to me, 'This was a mistake that the EU is not talking and engaging directly with Russia. We need to engage with this diplomacy.' Now it's happening. Do you feel validated?
