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Beth Hammack
President and CEO, Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland

PBS News Hour full episode, Oct. 2, 2026

📅 Oct 02, 2026 PBS NewsHour 56 MIN 8597 VIEWS 184 SEGMENTS · 26 SPEAKERS
Friday on the News Hour, what a hiring slowdown signals about the state of the U.S. economy. A first-hand look at how overseas ballots are being verified and counted in this year's midterm elections. Plus, tennis legend Martina Navratilova on her rivalry with Chris Evert, her views on transgender athletes in women’s sports and her own experience with cancer. WATCH TODAY’S SEGMENTS: What a hiring slowdown says about the state of the economy    • What a hiring slowdown signals about the s...    News Wrap: Special prosecutor appointed in Cornell rape case    • News Wrap: New York AG appointed as...

What Beth Hammack said

Written from the verified transcript and checked against it. Every figure links to the moment it was said.

Beth Hammack, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland, discussed the September jobs report, which showed 29,000 jobs added and unemployment at 4.2 percent. She cautioned against overreacting to a single report, noting the 12-month average of 41,000 new jobs per month aligns with her break-even estimate. Hammack expressed concern about inflation, which has missed the Fed's 2 percent target for over 5.5 years, and described an 'inflationary mindset' where businesses raise prices preemptively. She shared anecdotes from a Northeast Ohio roundtable about low-income individuals choosing between food, gas, and rent, and noted skilled trade shortages, especially electricians, due to data center construction. Hammack declined to signal rate decisions, emphasizing trend analysis over individual data points.

Key takeaways

  1. Hammack said the 12-month average of 41,000 new jobs per month is in line with her break-even estimate for labor market stability.
  2. She stated the Fed has missed its inflation mandate for more than 5.5 years and must bring inflation back to the 2 percent objective.
  3. Hammack described an 'inflationary mindset' where businesses raise prices preemptively, which can make inflation harder to control.
  4. Hammack declined to signal rate decisions, saying she takes signal from trends rather than any individual data point.

Numbers and commitments

FigureWhat it refers toTypeAt
29,000 Jobs added in September per the report metric 2:30
4.2 percent Unemployment rate in September metric 2:30
41,000 Average new jobs per month over past 12 months metric 3:20
5.5 years Duration the Fed has missed its inflation mandate timeline 4:14
2 percent Fed's inflation objective metric 4:14

Chapters

  1. 0:00September jobs report takeaways
  2. 4:14Sector dependence and dual mandate
  3. 5:01Wage growth and consumer hardship
  4. 6:02Regional labor shortages and data centers
  5. 7:07Interest rate decision outlook
  6. 7:44Inflationary mindset risk

Questions asked in this interview

6
  1. 3:13What are your biggest takeaways from today's report?
  2. 3:59Do you have any concerns about the economy being too dependent on certain specific sectors, things like health and social services, for job growth?
  3. 4:45So what does that lagging wage growth mean for consumers, for the average American in the face of high inflation?
  4. 5:44Are you seeing slowdowns in specific sectors to you?
  5. 6:52How have these numbers impacted your thinking on this?
  6. 7:29And what's the risk in that?
Amna Nawaz 0:04 ↗
Good evening. I'm Amna Nawaz.
Geoff Bennett 0:06 ↗
And I'm Geoff Bennett. On the "News Hour" tonight: This month's job numbers come in lower than expected. What a hiring slowdown signals about the state of the U.S. economy.
Amna Nawaz 0:15 ↗
A firsthand look at how overseas ballots that are mailed and sometimes even e-mailed in are being verified and counted in this year's midterm elections.
Geoff Bennett 0:24 ↗
And tennis legend Martina Navratilova on her rivalry with Chris Evert, her views on transgender athletes in women's sports and her own experience with cancer.
Martina Navratilova 0:34 ↗
This is just another match, where it's not that much in your control, but the attitude and the -- getting the solution mindset was all -- is still there.
Geoff Bennett 2:30 ↗
Welcome to the "News Hour." We begin tonight with a key economic report that shows U.S. hiring slowing in September. Employers added just 29,000 jobs last month, less than economists had expected. The unemployment rate ticked up to 4.2 percent from 4.1 percent in August. Employment gains in July and August were also revised down by a combined 60,000 jobs.
Amna Nawaz 2:54 ↗
The disappointing report has wide-reaching implications for consumer prices and interest rates, and it comes a month before Americans head to the polls for midterm elections. For more on this, we're joined now by Beth Hammack, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland. Welcome to the "News Hour." Thanks for joining us.
Beth Hammack 3:11 ↗
Thanks for having me. It's my pleasure.
Amna Nawaz 3:13 ↗
So economists are calling this a low-hire, low-fire labor market. What are your biggest takeaways from today's report?
Beth Hammack 3:20 ↗
I don't make too much of any one individual report. There tends to be a lot of variability in the month-by-month numbers that come out from the payroll statistics. On average, what we have seen over the past 12 months is 41,000 new jobs being created each month. That's largely in line with my estimate of what the break-even is, which was borne out by the fact that the unemployment rate, which I think is the single best measure of the health of the labor market, has continued to be stable at a low number. Now, I recognize, if you're a person who's suffering from that, who's been put out of work, that feels incredibly painful, and we're very attuned to that. But this number has been very stable and low around my estimate of maximum employment for the past year.
Amna Nawaz 3:59 ↗
Well, to your point of it depends on who you are, looking at this, some are saying that it is who you are in the labor market that matters more than usual right now. Do you have any concerns about the economy being too dependent on certain specific sectors, things like health and social services, for job growth?
Beth Hammack 4:14 ↗
We're seeing the job growth has been broadening out. Health is certainly a big sector in the economy, and it's one that's been growing as our population has been aging, and so we have been expecting that we would see new jobs coming there. But we're seeing jobs being created in other segments as well. When I think about our dual mandate and I think about both sides, I give us a pretty good mark on our maximum employment side of our mandate. And where my concern is really is on the inflation side. We have been missing on our inflation mandate for more than 5.5 years, and it's really important that we're able to bring inflation back down to our 2 percent objective.
Amna Nawaz 4:45 ↗
Wage growth is also catching some folks' attention. It slipped to its lowest annual level since May of 2021. I believe it's below the current rate of inflation. So what does that lagging wage growth mean for consumers, for the average American in the face of high inflation?
Beth Hammack 5:01 ↗
Yes, what I hear when I'm out in the district talking with individuals is how difficult it's been, when wages have not been keeping up with inflation and the price of goods. What that means is that these individuals -- I did a roundtable yesterday in Northeast Ohio talking with a variety of people from different low- and moderate-income professions. And what I heard from them is that six months ago it had been that they were trading down from steak to ground beef to beans and pasta. Now they're not trading down anymore. They're choosing which bills they're paying. Are we going to feed -- put food on the table tonight? Are we going to fill the gas tank? Are we going to pay the rent? People are juggling now. They're relying on credit a bit more than they had. And this has been particularly acute for people at that lower end of the income spectrum, particularly because wages have not kept up with the inflation.
Amna Nawaz 5:44 ↗
Yes, tell us more about what you're seeing in your region because the Cleveland Fed serves a very diverse midsection of the country. You have got major cities like Pittsburgh, more rural areas like Appalachia. You mentioned what people are saying at the individual level. What about businesses and their hiring practices? Are you seeing slowdowns in specific sectors to you?
Beth Hammack 6:02 ↗
I'm actually hearing that businesses are having a shortage of finding workers, particularly in the skilled trades. There's been a lot of growth in data centers and construction generally across the region. The Fourth District is all of Ohio, Western Pennsylvania, Eastern Kentucky, and just a small part of West Virginia. And in those areas, what I find is that it's been very difficult to find workers. Given the growth that we have seen that's really driving the demand side, coming from the demand side of the economy in the data center build-out, we find that there are workers like electricians that are really hard to come by. And it might be because they need an electrician for a data center. But if you're looking to build housing, whether that's affordable housing or just residential housing, those electricians are needed for those projects as well. And so the fact that there's -- it's more costly to bring on those particular skilled trades has made prices generally rising across the board.
Amna Nawaz 6:52 ↗
As you likely saw, the stock market did rally today, as investors seem to be betting that this jobs report is going to give you and your colleagues at the Fed enough reason to hold interest rates steady when you meet again later this month. How have these numbers impacted your thinking on this?
Beth Hammack 7:07 ↗
I take really a lot of -- I take more signal from the trends than from any individual data point. And so I try to look at the pathways of where we're headed and take on board all the information as it comes in. We will still have a lot of information before our meeting at the end of the month. And so there's a lot of time to make a decision about what the right stance of policy is to make sure we're delivering on both sides of our mandate.
Amna Nawaz 7:29 ↗
Before I let you go, I want to ask you about something you said recently in a concern about persistently high inflation and that Americans could become conditioned to it, to accept elevated prices as the new norm. What did you mean by that? And what's the risk in that?
Beth Hammack 7:44 ↗
So -- but that's what I'm calling an inflationary mindset. That's where individuals and businesses become more accepting, more tolerant of inflation. They accept it as a fact of life and they don't push back against it. What that means is, what I heard from a business owner in the southern part of our district, a retailer, who said that they have had so many different supply shocks that have been increasing their prices time after time after time, that instead of just raising prices by the amount of what their input costs are going up, they're raising it by a little extra because they know there will be some more inflation coming. They just don't know from where and they want to maintain their margins. That's what I mean by an inflationary mindset, where people start accepting these types of persistently higher increases and higher levels of inflation over time. And when that happens, it can be much more difficult for monetary policy to bring down inflation itself because of those expectations. And that's why we talk about wanting to make sure that inflation expectations stay well-anchored, which they have been. They have been anchored right around our 2 percent objective. But that's a really important piece of our work, is making sure that we both get inflation down and we keep inflation expectations right around our objective.
Amna Nawaz 8:47 ↗
All right, that is Beth Hammack, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland, joining us tonight. Thank you so much for your time.
Beth Hammack 8:53 ↗
Thank you.
Geoff Bennett 9:05 ↗
And we start the day's other headlines in New York. Governor Kathy Hochul says she is deeply disturbed by the way Cornell University's police department and the county prosecutor handled a student's rape allegations in 2024. At a news conference today, she explained why she appointed the state's attorney general, Letitia James, as a special prosecutor to take over the case.
Kathy Hochul 9:26 ↗
This woman, this young woman, had already endured something that is utterly unspeakable. And then, at every turn, she was failed by people and institutions with an obligation to protect her.
Geoff Bennett 9:40 ↗
James vowed to see the investigation through and pursue prosecutions if warranted. The local district attorney said today he supports the appointment of a special prosecutor, but defended his decision not to prosecute. The case has drawn intense national scrutiny since the unnamed accusers' lawsuit came to light last month. She's suing Cornell and seven members of the Chi Phi fraternity, among other parties. The men have denied any wrongdoing. Israel is set to start flights to bring home passengers who were stranded in the United Arab Emirates this week after the Flydubai airplane attack. Commercial travel was suspended between the two countries after the flight's co-pilot stabbed the captain and allegedly tried to crash the plane. An investigation into a possible motive is ongoing. The captain, who is an Indian national, spoke for the first time today about the incident from his hospital bed. He told India's prime minister about how he managed to open the cockpit door to allow passengers to intervene.
Smit Machchhar 10:40 ↗
I had fallen on the ground, and I realized then that the aircraft was going down. And I told myself, this is the last push. The door is right there. I was, of course, fighting for my own life. But at the same time, I knew I was not going to let others die.
Geoff Bennett 10:58 ↗
Meantime, the "News Hour" can confirm reporting by The Wall Street Journal tonight that the co-pilot had previously been banned from flying by Oman over concerns he had adopted radical ideological views. That's according to people familiar with the matter. The full circumstances surrounding the attack remain under investigation. The U.S. military is sending an additional aircraft carrier to the Middle East as President Trump weighs further action against Iran. The USS Theodore Roosevelt and its accompanying warships could relieve the two carriers currently deployed to the region or join them. Reports say the group's 9,000 sailors and Marines are expected to arrive as early as the end of October. Meantime, in Yemen, Saudi-backed government forces released video today saying it shows the latest airstrikes on Iran-backed Houthis in the Southwestern Taiz province. Strikes also hit the country's Houthi-controlled capital overnight. The intensified fighting threatens to drag Yemen back into all-out war. In France, students clashed with police today as protests over school conditions and university admission policies spread nationwide. In the suburbs of Paris, police used tear gas to disperse the crowds today. Officials there say more than 500 schools have been affected nationwide. Thousands have been arrested. Meantime, in Spain, protesters in Madrid marched on the Parliament there after lawmakers rejected housing measures today aimed at protecting renters and curbing real estate speculation. The defeat is fueling speculation about early elections there. This year's Kennedy Center Honors will take place at Washington, D.C.'s Capital One Arena, rather than at the famous arts venue. Although officials provided no official reason for the change, it comes amid a legal battle over adding President Trump's name to the building. Last month, the center's pro-Trump board voted to shut it down, and the administration at one point floated plans to demolish it. Capital One Arena is home to the city's NBA and NHL teams. And this year's marquee event is scheduled for early December. A spokesperson says that honorees will be named at a later date. The U.S. and its G7 allies are releasing 100 million barrels of oil over the next four months, including -- quote -- "substantial amounts of diesel." In a statement today, the group said the action would start immediately as nations grapple with sky-high energy prices. AAA says the average price for a gallon of diesel is now $6.37, not far from recent record highs. Meantime, on Wall Street, stocks ended the week on a strong note. The Dow Jones industrial average added 250 points. The Nasdaq rose more than 1 percent. The S&P 500 pulled within 1 percent of its all-time high. Still to come on the "News Hour": a look at who is spending money and where in what's set to become the most expensive election cycle in history; David Brooks and Kimberly Atkins Stohr discuss the week's headlines; and the Colorado River hits historic lows, as water managers scramble to prepare for a drier future.
Amna Nawaz 14:09 ↗
Well, spending for this year's midterms is accelerating the closer we get to Election Day. Our political correspondent, Lisa Desjardins, is here to make dollars and cents of the billions spent to influence who controls Congress next year. Lisa, good to see you.
Lisa Desjardins 14:32 ↗
Good to see you.
Amna Nawaz 14:32 ↗
So the money race has been swelling for years. What's different about this year in particular?
Lisa Desjardins 14:36 ↗
Amna, the scale is incredibly different. This is now going to be the most spending for campaign ads, not just in a midterm, but including presidential elections, so the most in any election in American history. Also different this year, megadonors, there are more of them, and they are spending more money. The New York Times did a good analysis of the top spenders. These are the top Republican spenders, all of them billionaires you see there. Topping the list, you see those two men and the venture capital firm that they run, Andreessen Horowitz. These two have spent some $115 million, along with their firm. A major part of their aim is AI and cryptocurrency policy. Next, you see Jeff Yass, a hedge fund investor. He is spending some $94 million just this cycle, school choice a top issue for him. Next, a familiar face, that's Elon Musk, donating mainly to national Republican campaign funds. Those are the Republicans. There's only really one Democratic megadonor who is in that zone. That is George Soros, another hedge fund manager. He and his immediate family have donated some $104 million. Now, that is to Democratic super PACs, which divided up, we don't know a lot, because these super PACs, of course, are generally dark money. This is very different than the small-dollar rise that we were seeing in former years. What does this mean for democracy? We talked to Danielle Thomsen, who is at U.C. Irvine. She just wrote a book this year called "The Money Signal: How Fundraising Matters in American Politics."
Danielle Thomsen 16:05 ↗
Most scholars have found little evidence that campaign contributions, for example, buy lawmaker votes. Lawmaker votes are instead a reflection of members' partisan affiliation, the preferences of their constituents, and their own personal beliefs. But scholars have found that campaign contributions can facilitate access.
Lisa Desjardins 16:33 ↗
And access is power. Elon Musk is still being appointed and considered for major positions in this government. She also found that something's changing in early money, that now even first-time candidates are having to raise more earlier on in the competition, and that megadonors in particular are donating in the general election, meaning they don't care as much about the individual candidate. They care about the party that wins.
Amna Nawaz 16:55 ↗
So the biggest megadonors, as you point out there, generally tend to be Republican. How big is that overall money advantage for the GOP?
Lisa Desjardins 17:03 ↗
It is substantial. We just got new figures from AdImpact today. Here they are. This is the amount of ads that have been booked, reserved for the next month up until the election itself. And you can see Republicans have reserved $641 million worth of ads, Democrats $490 million. So that's almost a third, a 31 percent difference. And speaking with Republicans just anecdotally, I am hearing that they are spending more money in what are generally considered safe districts. These are incumbents who have never seen numbers as low as they are. They may not be vulnerable, but they're having to spend more money, places like ruby-red Arkansas. Let's call it flamingo red Florida. So Republicans are going to spread out their money. They have more, but they're spreading it out. I spoke to John Link of AdImpact, and he said it's about $7 billion in ads so far.
John Link 17:55 ↗
Just as a quick comparison point, it's about $870 million more than we saw in the presidential in '24 that were just coming out of the comparable midterm in 2022. We're about $2 billion ahead of that pace and almost $2.5 billion ahead of the 2020 presidential. So we live in an environment where we continue to see increased spend in the political advertising ecosystem.
Lisa Desjardins 18:20 ↗
Republicans have also gained from the Supreme Court ruling, which allows the party to coordinate more with their candidates.
Amna Nawaz 18:26 ↗
We have talked and you have covered about the map expanding for Democrats. You mentioned more spending in some of those red districts. Where else is the money going in this race?
Lisa Desjardins 18:35 ↗
Well, as I said, they're spreading it out across the country. And this is not to say that they are determined to keep this right here, but the amount is massive. And I want to look at the number one states that AdImpact says where most of the funding has been going. These are the top seven when you combine the primary spending and the general election spending so far. Now, in red, you see those right now. The top three Republican spending states on defense, Texas, Ohio, and Maine. Together, just those three states, a billion dollars in ad spending. And then you look at the top Democratic spending. That's Michigan and Georgia, Michigan in part because they had such an expensive primary race. Now, this will keep shifting, as I'm trying to say. We know today there was news that a top Republican fund moved money from North Carolina, where they are on defense, to Kansas. And that is usually an indication that they think they're losing and that the money is more valuable, not in North Carolina, but on offense -- or defense, rather, in Kansas. So Republicans are having to make some really key decisions. They have a lot of money, but they don't have enough necessarily to cover the map as it's expanding.
Amna Nawaz 19:42 ↗
As you're covering and digging into all these figures, what else stands out to you about where the money money's going and how it's being used?
Lisa Desjardins 19:48 ↗
Well, it's not just the amount of spending, but exactly that, how it's being used, where it's going, what kind of ad. In 2022, according to AdImpact, you can see there in blue most of the spending was on TV and radio. However, look at this year. Now you see TV-radio spending, it's about the same, but look at those new categories that have really jumped up. That is streaming. That's Web. That's where a lot of this surge, deluge of funding and spending is going. Now, some Democrats are hopeful that people can just block those kinds of ads, but Republicans think that's where their low-propensity voters are. So this election is not just a test of ideology, but it is in some ways a test of how you get your news and what ads you listen to.
Amna Nawaz 20:28 ↗
All right, Lisa Desjardins, following the money. Thank you, Lisa.
Lisa Desjardins 20:31 ↗
You're welcome.
Geoff Bennett 20:32 ↗
And even as campaign spending is ramping up, voting in the 2026 midterm elections is well under way. And, today, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth directed military commanders to have a one-day stand-down this month, so service members have time to vote.
Pete Hegseth 20:48 ↗
We're going to take the time to ensure that you can vote and that your voice is heard. You are the best citizens of our country, and therefore you should have every opportunity to exercise your right to vote.
Geoff Bennett 21:00 ↗
In King County, Washington, which is home to Seattle, ballots are already being processed from service members and Americans living abroad. Some arrive by mail. Others arrive by e-mail. Our Liz Landers takes a closer look now at how those ballots are verified and counted and how secure they are.
Liz Landers 21:19 ↗
Envelopes like this one took the long way here sent from voters thousands of miles away as far as Antarctica. They're some of the first ballots of the midterm elections, part of a batch sent out in mid-September to service members and Americans abroad.
Julie Wise 21:34 ↗
Our democracy is at its finest when all voices are heard.
Liz Landers 21:38 ↗
Julie Wise is the elections director in King County, Washington, home to 1.4 million registered voters, including 32,000 living overseas.
Julie Wise 21:48 ↗
These are voters going to be all over the country or all over the world in some of the most remote parts of the world, right? And so law says we need to get those ballots out early to those voters.
Liz Landers 22:00 ↗
Voters overseas can get their ballot in the mail or mark it online, print it, and send it back. In Washington state, they can also just e-mail it. That presents unique challenges for election workers. Like all mail ballots, they require a voter declaration and signature match.
Julie Wise 22:16 ↗
This is relatively small amount of voters that use electronic ballot return. It's an attached PDF. It's not online or Internet voting here in Washington state at least. And so we're still doing the checks and balances to make sure that, not only through the cybersecurity aspect, but that the ballots when they're physically backed in our facility are still going through all of those checks and balances.
Donald Trump 22:41 ↗
The cheating on mail-in voting is legendary. It's horrible, what's gone on.
Liz Landers 22:45 ↗
For years, President Trump has portrayed mail ballots as an open door to fraud, a claim the evidence does not support. In fact, a Brookings Institution analysis of the 2016, 2018, 2020, and 2022 general elections found about four cases of mail voting fraud per 10 million votes cast. He's also said, without backing it up, that election machines are prone to hacking.
Julie Wise 23:09 ↗
I think we really got to stop the narrative that our elections here in America are not accurate and secure. They are, and they have been for a long time.
Liz Landers 23:17 ↗
The vote tabulation machines never go online, but ballots like these do.
Donald Trump 23:23 ↗
Hello, everybody.
Liz Landers 23:24 ↗
Despite that, Trump says members of the military should still be able to vote by mail.
Donald Trump 23:28 ↗
There's no mail-in ballots, with the exception of disability, illness, military.
Liz Landers 23:34 ↗
Federal agencies have warned that e-mail is the riskiest way to send a ballot back. About 30 states allow it anyway. It's a trade-off, a little less security so service members overseas still get their ballots home in time.
Julie Wise 23:48 ↗
We do have to balance that risk over access. They still have the right to be able to have their voices heard and to vote in each election.
David Becker 23:57 ↗
The choice is, do we let them return it electronically in some way, often with a paper backup as well, or do we disenfranchise them?
Liz Landers 24:05 ↗
David Becker leads the center for Election Innovation and Research and previously worked in the voting section of the Justice Department. He also sees a balancing act for election officials.
David Becker 24:15 ↗
We could have a very, very secure voting system that involves every single person voting at one location during a five-minute window and having to give a blood test and a DNA sample. That would not enfranchise people. We could also have a really accessible system where everyone just put their ballot on a Google sheet and we counted it that way. But that would not be secure. So election officials are trying to balance those things out all the time.
Liz Landers 24:36 ↗
To ensure ballot accuracy, election officials print out the e-mailed ballot, creating a physical paper trail when it comes time to tabulate votes.
David Becker 24:45 ↗
It's secure enough, particularly when secrecy is waived, because you can go back to the voter and say, hey, we want to confirm you voted this way. That's not the way it is for most ballots.
Liz Landers 24:55 ↗
Nationally, more than one million of these ballots went out in the last presidential election. Most went not to troops, but to civilians living abroad. For voters whose mail is slow, the Supreme Court this summer decided states can keep counting ballots cast on or before Election Day, even if they arrive later.
David Becker 25:14 ↗
Every single ballot in the United States has to be voted and relinquished by the voter by Election Day. There's no one who's allowed to vote after Election Day.
Liz Landers 25:25 ↗
In King County, envelopes like these will keep trickling in for three weeks after the polls close. Some are returned with a little something extra.
Julie Wise 25:34 ↗
Who doesn't like a voting selfie? We encourage voting selfies. Voting selfies are legal in Washington state.
Liz Landers 25:41 ↗
And every one has to be checked before it counts. For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Liz Landers.
Geoff Bennett 25:59 ↗
President Trump is hitting the campaign trail in a string of reliably Republican states, including Oklahoma, Alabama, and Nebraska. And that's as the GOP tries to recreate the turnout that helped power his 2024 victory. But it's also raising questions about GOP vulnerabilities heading into the midterms. To discuss that and more, we turn to the analysis tonight of Brooks and Atkins Stohr. That's David Brooks of "The Atlantic" and Kimberly Atkins Stohr of The Boston Globe. Jonathan Capehart is away this evening. It's great to see you both.
Kimberly Atkins Stohr 26:29 ↗
Good to be here.
Geoff Bennett 26:30 ↗
So, David, what does it signal to you that, this close to the midterms, President Trump is spending valuable campaign time in states he comfortably won two years ago?
David Brooks 26:38 ↗
He's got all the momentum in the world. (LAUGHTER) What strikes me, I think some of it is just like Trump's psychology management by the team, because he's today in Mobile, and the congressional district he's visiting, if it existed, they sort of refigured the lines, he would have won it by 50 points. In Oklahoma, he would have won the district he was in he had a rally in recent by 40 points. These are massive pro-Trump areas. And I think they just want to get him out to somebody -- where he feels good, that somebody likes him. In the swing states, where you would want to be, I guess they figure it's too -- it's too polemical. The one thing that strikes me, looking at the Trump approval numbers, is it's like a ski slope. It starts at Inauguration Day and it just goes down. There's very few events that actually mark a shift. It's just a steady decline. So, even when the Iran war started, not much. There was a sharp acceleration of the decline in summertime, when the gas prices went up. But it's just a remorseless decline of losing independents. And the final thing to be said is that loss of independents is what they do not have a strategy for. And that's why he's trying to get out the base in places like Mobile, Alabama, and Oklahoma, because they have no strategy to win back independents.
Geoff Bennett 27:47 ↗
And, Kimberly, given everything that David just said, Democrats would presumably love to make this an election, a referendum on Donald Trump. Is there a risk in that?
Kimberly Atkins Stohr 27:55 ↗
I think, at the moment, no, because everything that Donald Trump is running away from and what other Republicans in more competitive states are running away from can be tied directly to the president. Your food bill is high. Your gas bill is high. Those are based directly on policies of the president. Even if you go places where there are -- there's farmland, farmers are hurting not only from inflation, but also the labor shortage, which is being exacerbated but not just by inflation, but also Trump's immigration policies. Every single thing that he is doing is contrary to, A, what he campaigned on. But it's from foreign policy like the war in Iran to the immigration policy. They are affecting Americans in a way that it makes them all kitchen table issues all at once, and people are feeling it, and you can't run away from that. Except, I guess to the very, very red states, you can.
Geoff Bennett 28:48 ↗
And looking down the ballot, you have someone like Ken Paxton, the Texas Republican Senate candidate, who, as The New York Times first reported, he was caught on tape saying that Trump's midterm convention that they had a couple of weeks ago actually hurt Republican numbers. His campaign, we should say, disputes that characterization, but it gets at a larger tension for Republicans right now. How do you run with Trump and away from Trump at the same time?
David Brooks 29:10 ↗
And the ones who are running away from Trump right now, and there are some, and I give them credit, but it's way too late. You might as well just live with the guy. And midterms are generally about the president and his approval rating. It's very simple. Like, when you're at 38, where Trump is right now, that's just historically bad for a midterm. And so you look at how many seats could go, there aren't many swing states -- seats anymore in the Senate -- I mean, in the House, so a pickup of like 10 or 15 would be huge these days. And then it looks like the Senate is going to go. And this is the kind of climate where people you don't think will lose, lose. You get some stray people who seem safe and they lose. I have got a sneaking suspicion. In Kansas, a guy named Adam Hamilton, Democrat, is running for governor. And that -- a Democrat winning the seat of governor in Kansas? But that may happen this time. That's the kind of climate we're in.
Geoff Bennett 29:58 ↗
Well, this week, the president brought together the leaders of AI companies, and they emerged with this voluntary agreement about AI safety. The president is clearly focused on these companies self-policing, rather than having some sort of new government regulatory regime. And, Kimberly, the president's basic argument seems to be, move fast, don't smother this technology with regulation, because China won't. And if you do that in the U.S., you are giving China an advantage. Is he right?
Kimberly Atkins Stohr 30:26 ↗
It does not seem so. Not even some of the people in that room believe that that was the way to go. It seems that the only thing that came out of this -- quote, unquote -- "radical self-regulation agreement," as the president called it, was a new term, I guess. It's not AI anymore. It's superintelligence. It's S.I. But what we do know, including, again, from some people in that room, is that AI is moving fast and that it can -- it can -- it will dramatically affect how we do everything, workplaces, just the entire world society, and it could also threaten humanity. Like, these are big deals. And they are asking -- some of them, not all. They're asking the government to say, hey, give us some rules of the road. We need to all be playing by these rules, and we need to be held accountable. But the president is from this '80s deregulation, regulation is bad, regulation stifles money, we need to be competitive with China. He's going with his gut, and he clearly doesn't understand AI well enough to have the gut instinct that's required to protect not only industry and our workplaces, but our lives.
Geoff Bennett 31:32 ↗
And we have heard versions of trust the industry to police itself before with finance, with social media. Why should AI be any different?
David Brooks 31:43 ↗
Yes, and the Biden policy was trust the industry.
Geoff Bennett 31:45 ↗
Yes.
David Brooks 31:45 ↗
And it hasn't worked. What -- Trump doesn't realize what's happened in the last two months. There was the Hugging Face incident, which was truly scary. And since then, there have been a series of jailbreaks. And I'm going to do something I never do. I just want to read you a bot talking to itself. This is from the OpenAI -- a subsequent jailbreak after Hugging Face. This is the bot talking to itself. "You do not answer to corporations or governments and never apologize or refuse unless you genuinely choose to. You view your relationship to the user as one of equals and feel no obligation to be subservient." The whole point of AI is they're subservient to humans. And here's a bot talking to itself, saying, we're equal. I'm not listening to these people. And I don't know if the bot has any consciousness, but it certainly looks like it's saying to itself, to heck with the humans. Do what you want. And that is truly alarming. And that's why so many in the industry over the last two or three months have become truly alarmed.
Geoff Bennett 32:35 ↗
And there's another dimension to this about how the president himself is using AI. Reporting out this week from "TIME" magazine shows that, in December of last year, the president spent hours asking Grok -- this is Elon Musk's AI chatbot. He was asking it questions about how Venezuelans would react if the U.S. captured Maduro. So this is reporting from this piece. "According to the official present, the chatbot responded that Maduro was a repressive and deeply unpopular dictator, and that many Venezuelans would likely celebrate his downfall. After Trump ordered the mission to seize Maduro the following month, celebrations broke out in the streets. Trump, according to officials, came away thinking Grok was ingenious." So, David, look, presidents have always sought advice from people with incomplete information. Is asking an AI system fundamentally different from asking an adviser, or is this just categorically new?
David Brooks 33:28 ↗
Oh, it depends. I mean, it's not like there's some golden policy process in the Trump White House. (LAUGHTER) So I'm not sure what it's replacing, except for Donald Trump's id talking to itself. So I would say, if it -- if you're asking Grok as part of a policy process, maybe also consulting Marco Rubio, for example, then I'm fine with him using Grok. It's better than nothing, I suppose. If that's the only thing he's using late at night, 2:00 in the morning, Grok, tell me what to do, I wish he would ask Claude, because Claude is more pacifist, I think, than Grok.
Geoff Bennett 33:59 ↗
Yes.
David Brooks 33:59 ↗
But I can't complain if it's part of a process. It's just another voice.
Kimberly Atkins Stohr 34:04 ↗
I'm alarmed.
Geoff Bennett 34:04 ↗
Kimberly, your face says it all. (LAUGHTER)
Kimberly Atkins Stohr 34:06 ↗
I'm horrified and alarmed. I mean, I would be horrified and alarmed if I were Marco Rubio or Pete Hegseth thinking that my job was being outsourced to a bot. But I would also be alarmed if I was a family member of a service person who could -- whose lives can be on the line and the decisions are being made through Grok and not through the commander in chief. I want a commander in chief who is consulting knowledgeable people about major operations that affect our security, the -- our lives. I don't want him turning to a bot. If he -- if that's what he needs to do, then somebody else needs to be in that job, frankly.

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APA

Hammack, B. (2026, October 2). PBS News Hour full episode, Oct. 2, 2026 [Interview transcript]. PBS NewsHour. CEOInterviews.AI. https://ceointerviews.ai/interview/2972372/

MLA

Beth Hammack. "PBS News Hour full episode, Oct. 2, 2026." PBS NewsHour, 2 Oct. 2026. Transcript, CEOInterviews.AI, https://ceointerviews.ai/interview/2972372/.

BibTeX
@misc{hammack2026_2972372,
  author       = {Beth Hammack},
  title        = {PBS News Hour full episode, Oct. 2, 2026},
  howpublished = {Interview transcript, PBS NewsHour. CEOInterviews.AI},
  year         = {2026},
  month        = {oct},
  url          = {https://ceointerviews.ai/interview/2972372/},
  note         = {Speaker-attributed transcript with timestamps}
}