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Arthur Mensch
CEO & Co-Founder, Mistral AI

MLSS 2026 - Bernhard Schölkopf + Arthur Mensch — From language models to causal world models

📅 Oct 05, 2026 Max Planck Institute for Intelligent Systems 92 MIN 49 SEGMENTS · 2 SPEAKERS
Bernhard Schölkop is a Director at the Max Planck Institute for Intelligent Systems in Tübingen and the Scientific Director of the Ellis Institute Tübingen. Here, he discusses the use of AI as a tool for scientific discovery, including applications to scientific problems such as exoplanet search. The session also features a conversation with Arthur Mensch about AI research, the development of modern language models, and the rapidly evolving AI landscape. MLSS 2026 took place from August 31 to September 11 at the Max Planck Haus in Tübingen: https://mlss2026.is.tuebingen.mpg.de/...

What Arthur Mensch said

Written from the verified transcript and checked against it. Every figure links to the moment it was said.

Arthur Mensch, CEO of Mistral AI, discussed his journey from an MLSS student in 2017 to founding Mistral in 2023, emphasizing talent and capital as key ingredients. He praised the MLSS for its causality lessons and recalled his time at DeepMind, where he was part of a small team that recognized language as a shortcut to human knowledge. Mensch argued that AI's next frontier lies in connecting reasoning models with quantitative world models, especially for physics and manufacturing, and noted Mistral's focus on these areas. He pushed back on the idea that PhDs would be reduced to prompts, asserting that AI accelerates but doesn't replace human thinking. He also mentioned Mistral's recent fundraise and the challenge of securing compute supply, which he expects to persist for two years.

Key takeaways

  1. Mistral just announced a fund raise today, but securing compute supply remains a major bottleneck for the next two years.
  2. AI's biggest missing piece is connecting reasoning models with quantitative world models for physics and manufacturing, an area Mistral is heavily investing in.
  3. Mensch disagrees that AI will replace PhDs, saying AI accelerates but cannot delegate the thinking required for new ideas.
  4. Mistral has 200 people total with a 250-person research team, though he is no longer part of it.

Numbers and commitments

FigureWhat it refers toTypeAt
200 people Mistral total employee count metric 10:16
250 people Mistral research team size metric 10:16
10 people Size of his DeepMind team in 2020 metric 12:49
15 people Number of hires at Mistral founding with model training experience metric 14:55

Chapters

  1. 0:00MLSS memories and background
  2. 10:16Path from PhD to founding Mistral
  3. 12:49DeepMind and the language model breakthrough
  4. 14:55Building Mistral in Paris
  5. 18:30Future of AI and quantitative world models
  6. 22:04Advice for PhD students and internships

Questions asked in this interview

6
  1. 7:38So Arthur, maybe we can first start and you can tell us a little bit about your experience when you were an MLSS student. What do you remember?
  2. 10:00How did the thought mature to found something in France?
  3. 12:12You were like almost an adversary team in the company, or did you have to argue for this, or it was just an experiment, or how did it feel to be doing that?
  4. 14:31And then did you find these ingredients in Paris, or can you just tell us a little bit more about how that happened?
  5. 17:20Is it just about scaling what we have now, or what are the crucial ingredients?
  6. 21:14What advice can you give to PhD students nowadays in choosing their topics?
Speaker 0:23 ↗
Okay. Hello. Hello everybody. I'll do it like this. So you might be surprised to see me here. I'm not Zanap. So Zanap, it turned out in the end, through various complexities in family etc., couldn't make it. And at the same time I heard some complaints from people to me and say, why don't you speak at the Tübingen summer school? So we thought we can address both issues in one and I'll give you one talk here and it's going to be special, not in terms of the content, well at least I don't want to claim that, but also since you will get not just me but an additional surprise visitor if everything works out in the talk. So don't fall asleep. I'm using this as an excuse to motivate you for my talk, don't fall asleep, something interesting might happen. And the talk, it's actually good that it's in the second week because it builds upon some things that you've already learned about, but it tries to put it in a broad perspective and maybe also connect it a little bit to scientific applications.
So I've called it a tale of spurious correlations. So I think you've all seen this kind of examples. So this is an example where people trained a neural network to detect so-called pneumothorax, where the lung collapses, and they built this system, wanted to apply it to new incoming patients, and it didn't work. And they noticed that it had worked very well in the training set, didn't work on the incoming patients. Then they started to analyze what the system was looking at, and then they noticed that it was looking, for instance, at this area here, which is an area, I don't know if you can see it, where the doctors insert a little tube into the lung of the patients to let the liquid flow out. So this means pneumothorax patients, they come in, they get diagnosed, they get their little tube inserted into the lung, and then they take X-ray pictures, and then they train on those X-ray pictures. Now clearly for the incoming patients, they wanted to do the diagnosis in the first place. So there was no tube in the lung. So we had a different distribution, and so from that point of view, the tube appeared, or it was correlated with the pneumothorax, but it's not causal for it. So this correlation, it appeared in the training set but not in the test set. It was not a robust correlation. So that's one example of something that can go wrong, or one example of something that people call a spurious correlation.
Now, some people would argue, or people, the current scaling trend seems to suggest that we don't have to worry about all these things as long as we scale up our models far enough, they're going to learn about causality magically. So for this reason, I want to show you some images of where you still find spurious correlations in current foundation models. And this is an image of the Ebbinghaus illusion. So if you look at these two orange discs, then you will notice that the left disc looks a little bit bigger than the right disc. And in fact, they are the same. So you can, if you want, you can measure with your fingers. But it's because they're surrounded by other discs. Now suppose you're a foundation model. You're trained on the internet. You're trained also on images, and the images appear with captions, and maybe you've seen some images like this alongside with a caption that explains the illusion. Now you could learn something from this. You could learn different things from it. For instance, you could learn whenever I have orange discs surrounded by blue discs, those orange discs are the same size. Now, that would be a stupid conclusion. It would be a spurious correlation because clearly it's not going to be robust. And if you test it on images like this, and this is an example that two of our students have come up with, test it on images like this, then if you fall for the spurious correlation, then you will think these orange discs are the same size. And in fact, this is what language models tend to do. So here it says both orange circles are actually the same size, and it even recognizes the correct illusion, the Ebbinghaus illusion. And I found this a lot of fun and tried out multiple illusions. So maybe you've seen this illusion, so this length is the same as this length, although they look different. It's related to a certain prior in 3D perception, or this is a straight line even though it doesn't look like it. Now let's exaggerate those illusions as well. So this is an extreme version where the two segments, so this segment and this segment are clearly not the same length. But again it says this is the Müller-Lyer illusion, those are the same length, or here it says this is actually a straight line. And finally this one is also grossly exaggerated. They're clearly not parallel. It says they are parallel. I showed it to someone last week and they were asking, well you were using 40, what about the more recent model? So this morning I ran it on Fable and he says, yeah, this looks like the cylinder illusion. And so what's actually on the image? Where does it say anyway? So I don't want to read the whole thing, but it even gives some explanation what it feels like when you look at this, etc. But it still falls for this kind of spurious correlations.
Now, spurious correlations, they sound like a bad thing, but if you model them, if you understand them, they can also be a good thing. And that's an example from astronomy. And I'm going to use this as an excuse to show you several examples from astronomy, several examples of machine learning in astronomy. And maybe just to connect this also a little bit to what Jeb Batista was saying in the first week. So it's, I agree, it's non-trivial. If you think all of AI now is about who builds the best language model, then it's non-trivial to compete with companies that have millions of GPUs. But AI is much broader. AI is also about what are the future algorithms, and AI currently and very excitingly is about what you can do in the sciences by using AI. So it's like in astronomy when the telescope was discovered, you could get a telescope and make new discovery, or when the telescope was around, you could make lots of new astronomical discoveries just by applying the telescope. And I think we're a little bit in the situation now. So here we're going to apply it to the problem of exoplanet search, and we will do this on... it's easier. Okay. So this is actually a good time for our surprise visit before I get into this topic, and we're going to switch the screen now and have maybe 15 minutes of a conversation with our surprise guest. And let's see, let's see if this works. Hello. Can you see me?
We can hear you already. Now we can see you. So I would like to introduce to the audience, this is Arthur Mensch, whom we had been in contact about whether he can join us for a little while here. And the excuse for doing so was that he's an MLSS Tübingen alumnus. He was here before, sitting on your side of the room, different building at the time. So we're very happy that he's here now, and he's one of the people really moving European AI also at the frontier. So Arthur, maybe we can first start and you can tell us a little bit about your experience when you were an MLSS student. What do you remember?
Arthur Mensch 8:22 ↗
Yeah. So good afternoon everyone and sorry to crash into the Milky Way. It seems that I replaced that screen. And so great pleasure to meet you all, and sorry I'm also wearing a tie today because I have a few things to do this afternoon. I was at the machine learning summer school in the summer of 2017. And so at the time I had to, it was basically two months before the transformer release. And at the time we actually had a few sessions already on deep learning and on natural language processing with transformers, not with transformers but with attention. So attention already existed at the time. And I also remember quite a few lessons on causality, which is not something I explored enough, I would say. And so for me it has been a great experience to be in Tübingen in particular. I remember a lot of very nice bars that you can go to. Surprising amount of bars that you can find in such a tiny city, I should say. And it's been a great place also to meet a lot of people that are still in the field and that I think have been at the forefront of different progress in research on the transformers, in particular on scaling, all of these things. And today, well I guess not, I'm fortunately no longer a researcher, but I do have very fond memories of the time when I was a researcher.
Speaker 10:00 ↗
So maybe we can talk a little bit more about what happened to you afterwards. It would be interesting to understand when did you notice you want to build a company that uses transformers? What did you do in between? How did the thought mature to found something in France?
Arthur Mensch 10:16 ↗
Yeah. So I was a third year PhD student at the time. So in 2017, and I was working on functional magnetic resonance imaging to do a prediction of what people would think thanks to brain images. And using that as a way to understand how the brain was working. And at the time I was doing a little bit of deep learning in that domain. It was a bit early. It was mostly factorizing matrices. So it was not that nonlinear. And I did then two years of postdoc in mathematics and optimal transport. And then that's the time when I got into natural language processing. And that brought me to DeepMind in 2020. That was the year of GPT-3. And DeepMind was a bit lagging behind. And so we were in the small team that was kind of pushing that idea that it was maybe a good path to make very strong intelligence systems. Which we did, and spent two years and a half there. Worked on the scaling of these things. So making sure that when you put more training flops to the problem, you make better models. And I think that has been the name of the game ever since. And in 2023, I decided to create Mistral, which is because we knew that it was too important to technology to leave it only to the US industry. And that's how we got started. So that was three years and a half ago now. It feels like yesterday because it's been quite packed with events ever since. And now we were a 200 people company and operating many different places, and we have a 250 people research team, and I'm no longer part of it, but they work very well.
Speaker 12:12 ↗
So it's very interesting, you're telling you were part of a small team at DeepMind that started this in there. So DeepMind was previously or originally known for a different kind of approach to intelligence that was more about building it from the ground up, trying to understand perception and action and not immediately language. So maybe that was a more sort of neuroscience inspired approach. So how did it feel? You were like almost an adversary team in the company, or did you have to argue for this, or it was just an experiment, or how did it feel to be doing that?
Arthur Mensch 12:49 ↗
We were a 10 people team at the time. And I think it grew over time because people realized it was quite an important opportunity. DeepMind has always been pretty heavy on reinforcement learning. And at the time it was on actual talk problems. The good thing with language is that it's actually a very good shortcut because it's already a pretty big compression of human knowledge in itself. And if you take it and you compress it further, you get a lot of intelligence. Whereas if you only rely on signals coming from the human world, they are not very compressed and so you need to spend a lot of compute on them. So I think that's the shortcut that was a bit missing in 2020. We pushed it, and then in 2023 the two things were not connected together. So you would train a large language model, you would not be using reinforcement learning at the time because you were doing pre-training and then a little bit of alignment and supervised fine tuning. But reinforcement learning was not done at scale. I think that changed actually, the two branches of machine learning merged in 2024, and we have been able to make language models much better by training them on reinforcement learning environments ever since. At the end of the day, I think the reason why it proved to be a great enabler is that it was a shortcut to human knowledge. You got access to everything that was ever produced in terms of human content. Not everything, but a lot of things. And by compressing it, you actually get a fairly good world model. And once you have a good world model, it becomes much easier to do reinforcement learning on tasks and on language tasks in particular.
Speaker 14:31 ↗
Yeah. So when you started Mistral, so it was you and a few other people, I think some of them also from FAIR and from the Llama team. And so you had, I guess you needed a certain set of ingredients to have a chance of being successful. And then did you find these ingredients in Paris, or can you just tell us a little bit more about how that happened?

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Cite this transcript

APA, MLA, BibTeX
APA

Mensch, A. (2026, October 5). MLSS 2026 - Bernhard Schölkopf + Arthur Mensch — From language models to causal world models [Interview transcript]. Max Planck Institute for Intelligent Systems. CEOInterviews.AI. https://ceointerviews.ai/interview/2985466/

MLA

Arthur Mensch. "MLSS 2026 - Bernhard Schölkopf + Arthur Mensch — From language models to causal world models." Max Planck Institute for Intelligent Systems, 5 Oct. 2026. Transcript, CEOInterviews.AI, https://ceointerviews.ai/interview/2985466/.

BibTeX
@misc{mensch2026_2985466,
  author       = {Arthur Mensch},
  title        = {MLSS 2026 - Bernhard Schölkopf + Arthur Mensch — From language models to causal world models},
  howpublished = {Interview transcript, Max Planck Institute for Intelligent Systems. CEOInterviews.AI},
  year         = {2026},
  month        = {oct},
  url          = {https://ceointerviews.ai/interview/2985466/},
  note         = {Speaker-attributed transcript with timestamps}
}