Good afternoon, and thank you both for joining us. I wanted to start with you, Brooks, and just talk about the real-world data that you're seeing, because your vitality program has more real-world health data than pretty much any other insurer that I could think of, certainly in North America and potentially in the world. So, what trends are you seeing?
Well, first of all, you might be saying, why is the CEO of a life insurance company here? Well, I'm really fun at a party because there's nothing we study more than why people die and when they die. I have a lot of actuaries that are a lot of fun, too, by the way. But no, we do it for two reasons. We see all the longitudinal data, of course, on trends in mortality, but also we, 11 years ago, started engaging our programs through wearable devices and otherwise to try to provide them with incentives and rewards for living a longer, healthier, better life. So we get all this ongoing stream of data, and I guess I would say the most striking theme for me is the information age of personal health data. I mean, I see macro trends. I can talk about causes of death if you want, between cardiac and cancer and so forth. Obviously, COVID was a blip, not a blip in terms of impact, but compromised life expectancy for a bit. But the real fascinating trend for me is the level of empowerment that we can all enjoy as consumers. Now, that creates challenges if you don't have the right context for the information. But I've got two wearable devices. I do all the — you show me a preventative screening, I'll sign right up for it, and I've got all this data now, which is really a pretty, you know, we're like in generation one of humans that have had all these inputs and facts about their own data. Now the question is, you know, how do we translate that into actionable insights, which is what we both try to do, I think.
And obviously that's why we paired you with Tom here from Oura. I did want to ask, are people actually living longer then? I mean, what's the data telling you?
Well, yeah. Yeah, I mean, we could talk about longevity. I'm sure everyone in the room knows these trends as well as I do. One of the great accomplishments of humankind is the transformation of life expectancy over the past 150 years. I mean, when the notion of 65 as a retirement age was first established in Germany, I think in 1880-something, life expectancies were 45, closing in on double that now in 150 years. That's after 100,000 years of it being 25 to 30. So, that has all kinds of profound implications we probably don't have time to get into, but we've actually evolved from thinking about just how do our clients live longer and healthier. I'm sure you've all heard about the difference between healthspan and lifespan. People have been living longer but less healthy. How do we help change that? We've injected a third word now, which is better. Longer, healthier, and better. Because I don't think our society has come to terms at all, politically, socially, otherwise, with the reality that most of us are going to enjoy — hopefully enjoy — we're going to spend decades in some form of what used to be retirement post-65. So, life expectancies have increased dramatically. You look at the tools and technology that are out there, I continue to expect them to just increase. But we also have to think not just about living longer, but healthier and, like I say, better, which means social connectivity, a whole bunch of other things.
And you mentioned a great transformation there, but also the tools, and Oura is obviously a huge tool. You've done fantastically well as a company off the back of this. You're valued at 11 billion. When's the IPO?
That's the question everyone wants to know. I'm waiting to find out myself. So, we'll let you know.
Okay. I mean, any insights? I mean, you're talking to banks about this, aren't you?
You know, we talk to banks all the time. Bankers love to talk. So, no insults meant. But, look, we have lots of options and we're actually just focused on serving our customers and trying to keep them alive. I mean, I think the thing that's really compelling about this kind of longevity question is agency and power of data is the key to unlocking behavior, because behavior change is what actually matters. You can talk about all the different therapies, and there's some interesting science on the horizon that will make a huge difference. You know, whether it's stem cell therapies or, you know, Yamanaka, all the things are going to change. But right now, the things that all y'all can do to help your lives is to do what your mother told you, right? You can eat well, sleep well, exercise, be in touch with friends, make sure you don't drink alcohol or smoke, and try and avoid and manage stress effectively. Those are the things that, you know, in the long haul will compound to make you healthy. And that's where wearables and data come in, because what they're really doing is giving you both the knowledge, which is power, and giving the incentive, which is, you know, you've got a reason to do it, obviously, to live long, but also the motivation and the step-by-step everyday habits that build health. That is the key, and that's actually why our partnership is actually really strong, because we solve, you know, two different parts of the problem.
And you solve that problem, and so obviously as a consumer that's fantastic because people have wearables, you know, be it your ring, be it an Apple Watch, something like that. Many devices are available. That said, the other side of this is the data and what happens with the data. So, hypothetically, let's say you do IPO, are you concerned that there'll be a point at which public shareholders will expect you to monetize that data more aggressively?
You know, I don't know is the answer, but I hope not. And I think we have an incentive actually to not do that. We have, by our business model, an incentive to actually take care of the people who wear our wearable because they pay a subscription, and that actually relieves us of the obligation to try and monetize that data. If anything, our obligation and our orientation is towards our customers and their health. If you want to share your data, you want to be part of a scientific study, you want to get incentive plans, you have that choice. That agency is with you. We will never do that on your behalf without your permission or your knowledge. That's just not where we are. We're more like a healthcare system in that way, which is data privacy, data control, data sovereignty. That's where we're anchored.
And I would just put an exclamation point on that and say, I will tell anyone that will listen, heck yes, I'm going to monetize your data, but I'm going to monetize it to your own benefit. I'm not going to sell it to third parties or do any of those things, but I'm going to use your data to help you live a longer, healthier, better life by being able to play back insights from your wearable, from your latest labs or what have you. I'm going to let you in on a secret that among the people that care about you living a long healthy life, you got friends, families, maybe a pet, your life insurer wants you to live a long healthy life right up there with them. You know, there's $22 trillion dollars of life insurance in force on Americans right now. That'd be the largest GDP of any country other than the US. So, the life insurance industry is hugely motivated. So, we can use that data to provide informed — and then with AI coming, we may or may not talk about AI, but the ability to provide hyperpersonalization and nudges around the things that people can and arguably should do to live a longer, healthier life. So yes, I'm going to monetize it, but I'm going to monetize it by having our customers live longer, which, by the way, we're well aligned on that, right? I think most of you want to live a longer, healthier life, and I want you to too.
But can you tell us a bit more about that hyperpersonalization that you just mentioned? I mean, so for example, with your scheme, you already have a situation where you incentivize — it's like a rewards system, isn't it? It's like, you know, amassing air miles, that kind of thing. So you incentivize types of behavior. What other kind of innovations are you looking to roll out? What are you doing in terms of nudging people?
Sure. Well, the personal is — I mean, you could all think of the obvious ways one would personalize here. We all in this room have a slightly, in some cases substantially, different path to a longer, healthier, better life. Some of you may be living with a chronic condition. Some of you may have inherited something. Some of you, whatever. My number one barrier to a longer, healthier life is poor sleep. And when we think about right now, our program provides points for an array of healthy things. You get a certain number of steps, you get points. You buy healthy foods at the grocery store, you earn points. And we're connected to all these things. You go for a colonoscopy or mammogram, you get points. But right now, unless you're a person living with diabetes where it's customized, or over 80 where it's customized, we're all going to get the same number of points for the same things. And what our program needs to be doing is saying, 'Brooks, it looks like your biggest problem is a lack of sleep.' And right now, the program offers me, you know, five points for getting a sleep score of 85, thanks to Tom. You might as well offer me five points for summiting K2 without oxygen, right? Like, I'm not going to get that right now. So, what my program needs to do is use this data and say, 'Okay, Brooks, it looks like this is your biggest challenge. Here's some tips and education,' which the ring provides me as well, by the way. You get that to 70 in the next three months and I'm going to give you 500 points. I'm going to give you a gift card to Amazon, whatever it might be. So per — and someone else who's dealing — someone else might maybe used to be more physically active, they're less. How do we tailor a set of incentives around that? I can take it to the absurd level. We offer healthy food recipes to all of our customers. If we know that you only ever buy squash and zucchini at the grocery store, why are we serving you a healthy food recipe for corn and lima beans or whatever? It's sort of absurd, but I mean, talk about hyperpersonalization right down to recipes. Physical activity. Tom gets his physical activity by rowing. I get it by walking. Why am I sending him things on 5Ks if I know he likes to row? So, sorry to go on so long, but no, no, it's okay. Limitless examples of personal, and far more sophisticated than that, by the way, down to what screenings you might want to take and so forth. I mean, I think this is where AI really comes in.
Yeah. Right. AI has this sort of property of being able to really kind of understand somebody, their context, to kind of meet them where they are and actually weirdly provide some kind of like level of accountability and support. And we see this in our data when people use our AI and they're asking questions. It actually — they feel like they have a relationship with someone who cares. Like we literally ask people and say, 'Why is it that you use the AI?' And they say, 'Well, because it's infinitely patient. It's infinitely empathic and it knows everything about me and will talk to me about anything I want.' And the thing is, you think about the properties of the best coach who actually changed your life or changed the direction of your life. Those are the properties, the same properties. And that's bending the curve of behavior is the hardest part of this whole equation. It's the hardest thing to do is to get someone to change their behavior. And the way doctors do it is they say, 'Yeah, you're going to die soon if you don't.' And the thing is, if you're having that conversation with your doctor, it's too late. You have to actually both be preventative, meaning change behavior before it's like urgent, before you have an emergency, and have to be predictive. You say this is where you're headed, and you know maybe if you don't get off this course, it's not going to go well for you, so you have to get off that course. And that's where we excel actually at — you know, Oura is really, its power is prevention, change in behavior, and prediction.
And information. Like, I'm sorry, but I have the — it's not a new theory, but you know, what do they say? What is not measured doesn't change, or something. And even if you've got the best concierge doc in the world, you're not interacting with your doctor all that much. I interact with this darn thing every morning when it holds me accountable on a sleep score, and it absolutely changes your behavior.
