Westwood One presents America at Night. Here's your host, McGra Milhaven.
All right, let's get right to it. Thanks everybody for sticking around. It's Tuesday night, America at Night, coast to coast. From coast to coast, we are live and we take on the stories of the day. And tonight, we've got a good one lined up for you. Looking forward to tonight. A little bit later on, do you remember the name Dr. Deborah Birx? She was the world-renowned physician who stood next to Dr. Fauci during the whole COVID-19 crisis. She worked under President Obama and President Donald Trump when it came to COVID-19. We're going to ask her what she's watching when it comes to this pneumonic plague that's going on in Russia. So, we'll talk to her about that coming up here in a bit.
Next hour, hold on to your hats. There is a New York Times bestselling book. It's a blockbuster. It's being talked about as one of the best books of the year. It's called Roll the Calls and it's the story of Ari Emanuel. Ari Emanuel is a Hollywood super agent and if anybody who watched the TV show Entourage a couple years ago on HBO, he was the character or he was the true person that they based the agent character Ari Gold played by Jeremy Piven. And it is, if you know the series, it is a funny, funny look at Hollywood. And it's loosely based on Mark Wahlberg when he went out to Hollywood and he brought his friends from back home and the trials and tribulations of friends and movie stars and gobs of money and actors and actresses and agents and movies and money and all this crazy stuff that goes along. It was a great, great series. And Jeremy Piven played Ari Gold which was based on Ari Emanuel. So we'll get into all that with him coming up in hour number two.
This first hour, I don't know if you saw this, but there is a viral video going around the internet and it's, I believe it's in Texas where there is a man named Jay Valentine. He's a veteran software technology executive and he's testifying in front of a committee about data centers. And in this viral video, he talks about how these data centers are obsolete. They're last decade's technology and that we don't need these data centers anymore. And we are spending massive amounts of money and the technology is already obsolete. It is a pretty interesting video and with all this talk about artificial intelligence and data centers, we thought we'd invite him on the show.
Now, if you remember, we had Sultan Meni on the show a couple weeks ago. He's a national security expert and a former FDIC chairman of innovation. And he worked for the CIA, worked for the FBI, worked for the NSA, he worked for the FDI, and he was dealing with cyber security. And we asked him that very question and he said the same thing. He said, 'Look, this technology is obsolete.' So hold that thought. When we come back, we're going to talk to the man who was trying to tell as many people who will listen that this data center technology is obsolete. Stay right there. America at Night. We're just getting started. Back in a moment.
America at Night with McGra Milhaven. Join the nightly conversation, America at Night with McGra Milhaven.
Okay, it's not us. Our guest is having some technical difficulties. So, we'll try and reschedule him for a later date. It's an interesting conversation about data centers and people who were saying that the technology in these data centers are obsolete. So, we'll try and get him back on in the next day or two. So, let's move on. Has anybody been following the story of Republican Senator Tom Tillis from North Carolina? Senator Tom Tillis from North Carolina has a new book out and the new book is called How to Lose Friends and Antagonize Presidents and the man is not running for reelection. He is stepping down as senator from North Carolina and he has written a book in which apparently he's unshackled from the electorate. So therefore, he's giving us his honest opinion, which, okay, you're a United States senator. You weren't giving us your honest opinion while you were still on the field of play.
Be that as it may, in this book, How to Lose Friends and Antagonize Presidents, Tom Tillis writes that the biggest regret of his career is that he decided to confirm Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. He also goes on to say that he should have stopped Robert F. Kennedy Jr. from becoming Health and Human Services Secretary in the early days of Donald Trump's second term. In the book, the retiring Republican North Carolina senator says he decided to vote for Pete Hegseth because at the time he didn't want to be a lone voice in the wilderness. Tillis does make clear that he always was skeptical of the allegations about Hegseth's turbulent management style, his treatment of women, his excessive drinking, and all of the other shenanigans that came with Pete Hegseth. Hegseth has denied all those allegations. But according to his own book, Tom Tillis says he was very skeptical of those allegations and so he voted for this man. And the only reason why he voted for the Secretary of Defense is because the United States senator from North Carolina did not want to be the lone wolf in the wilderness.
Now, think about this for a second. You're the father or the mother of someone in the armed services. These people who make these decisions hold your child's life in their hands. Okay? And every decision they make affects your loved ones. Okay? And this United States senator says he had reservations about Pete Hegseth. So much so that of all the decisions he made in his career, this one is his biggest regret. And the reason why he decided to go with a Secretary of Defense that is less than is because he didn't want to be the lone wolf in the wilderness. Think about that as a profile in courage.
Now look, if the man would have said, 'Hey, I really believe Pete Hegseth was right for the job.' And it turns out I've changed my mind or things he's done has changed my mind. But in the beginning I was really right. Okay, fine. Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone thinks somebody's going to do well. Somebody hires somebody, that happens. It happens and mistakes are made and fine. I can appreciate that. At the time I made the decision, this is why I made the decision. Okay, fine. But he's saying at the time I made this decision that this man who was going to lead the armed services, who was going to lead my son or daughter into battle and have her life and his life in the palm of his hand, I had serious questions about his womanizing, his management style, and his drinking. But I didn't vote against him because, well, I didn't want to be the one to vote against him. Are you kidding me? This is a United States senator and this is how he made his decision.
Now it gets worse. He also says in this book, I know for a fact there are others like me. He says, 'Republicans who agreed to go along with the early demands of the Trump team, no matter how ridiculous they were, believing that failing to do so would mean the end of their political career and who now see that things have gone way too far.' So Tom Tillis is saying, he writes that he can count at least 30 GOP colleagues. So let's assume they're senators, right? Colleagues, he's a United States senator. 30 Republican colleagues who have expressed reservations, to put it mildly, his words, not mine, about many of the president's actions in private. Then when the reporters show up with the cameras and the microphones, they have nothing but nice things to say. Really?
So when he's in the field of battle, when he's in the room, oh my goodness, President Trump's the greatest guy in the world. The minute he leaves the room and now he's unencumbered and he doesn't have to face the election anymore. Now all of a sudden, President Trump is surrounding himself with sycophants. All of a sudden now all these issues with President Trump. Really? Where were you when you were in the game? Now again, this has nothing to do with bashing Trump. This is bashing Tom Tillis. I'm sorry, sir. With all due respect, you're a United States senator. You are one of a hundred people. You are part of the oversight of the presidency. You are one of the checks and balances to hold the president accountable. And if you think the man's doing something wrong, you as a United States senator, that's why we sent you to Washington DC was to be a check and a balance on the unchecked power of a president. Doesn't matter who it is. And you decided to vote for a lesser Secretary of Defense because you didn't want to stand up and say the emperor has no clothes.
How would you like to be the father or the mother of a military man right now and read this? I would be apoplectic over the whole deal. Now look, he goes on to say that his breaking point was the big beautiful bill. And the reason why he voted against the big beautiful bill was for all sorts of reasons, including it was going to destroy Medicaid in his state. And it was a budget buster and it was terrible and it was awful and it was way too much and it was way too terrible so he voted against it. That was his breaking point. That was over a year ago. What in between then and now he's voted for all sorts of things including Todd Blanche who he had a problem with, right? He was like, 'Hey, you're setting up this slush fund for these January 6 people. I have a problem with this.' But he still voted for Todd Blanche. Again, this isn't me being upset that he voted for Todd Blanche. This is his own words saying he's upset and yet he still voted for Todd Blanche.
And then he has the audacity to say President Trump's surrounding himself with sycophants and the people surrounding him are bad news. And President Trump needs to do a better job of surrounding himself with better advisers. Hm. If there was only a governing body who could advise him of that, if there was only a governmental body who would have oversight to make sure President Trump hires the right people to advise him. If there was only some type of check and balance on the presidency. Hm. I wonder who that would be. Oh, yes, sir. That's you.
And now that he's somehow making the rounds, he was on 60 Minutes. He was on The View. He's making the rounds, puffing his chest out, and let me tell you how I stood up to the president. What are you talking about? You're basically saying you cowered in your time that your country elected you to go to Washington to stand up and do what you thought was in the best interest of this country. You are now saying they sent you to Washington and you did not do what you thought was in the best interest of this country. You did what you thought was in the best interest of you. Think about that for a second.
Now, this plays right into the conversation we had last night with Lindy Lee, the Democratic operative who told the story, right? She was again speaking truth to power. She was the one saying, 'Guys, President Biden, I don't know if you can last another four years. Do we really want to do this?' And she was slapped back. She was demoted. She was cut out of the inner circle. All because she had the audacity to talk truth to power, right? I mean, what are we doing? What are we doing in this country when we're sending people who claim, 'Oh, we're going to change Washington. Oh, we're going to change Washington. We're going to go to Washington. We're going to tell them how to really.' And then you go to Washington and you fold like a cheap suit.
I am, Tom Tillis should be ashamed of himself that when you're in the field of play. That's when you stand up and do what you think is, that's when you have the microphone. Now that he's retiring and he's leaving, now he's saying his biggest regret is voting for Pete Hegseth and you have to write in a book, make a couple bucks on the deal. Really? Really? Now is the time you say that? But you didn't come to this conclusion because of the things Pete Hegseth did. You always had reservations about him, but you didn't want to stand up and say it because you wanted to go with the crowd. I find that quite frankly unbelievable.
You know what, Marjorie Taylor Greene, she was a true believer. She went in there, she believed it, she lived it, she loved it, and at some point she became disillusioned. And now she's out telling her story. I have no problem with that. Right. JD Vance, right, called President Trump America's Hitler, changed his mind. Okay, I have no problem with that. At the time, this is what he thought. Now he's seen the light and he thinks of it this way. Marjorie Taylor Greene, this is what she thought. She gets in there, her mind changed, her point of view changed, she learned some things, all of a sudden now she's a different point of view. This guy, his point of view hasn't changed. His position in life has changed. He's now no longer a US senator. He no longer has to face the electorate. So now he's telling you the truth. And he's also telling you, by the way, the guys who are still in the field, those guys in there, 30 of them think the president's crazy, but they don't want to say anything like me because, well, they don't want to cross the guy. Really, that's what it's come to.
I'm shocked that this is not a bigger story. Absolutely shocked this is not a bigger story. The book he writes is called How to Lose Friends and Antagonize Presidents. The book should be called The Emperor Has No Clothes and I Chose Not to Call It Out. That's what it should be called. I saw the emperor had no clothes and I went along with the crowd. A lone voice in the wilderness. Holy mackerel. That, my friends, is the opposite of a profile in courage. All right, there's my rant for the day. We can talk about it in hour number three with phone calls, text messages, all straight ahead.
Listen to this. We're now starting to hear more and more information about this new Russian plague. What do we know? What don't we know? We're going to talk to a woman who absolutely knows. She was all part of the Trump administration and the response to COVID-19. We'll talk with her coming up here in just a moment. America at Night just getting started. Back in a moment.
This is America at Night with McGra Milhaven. This is America at Night with McGra Milhaven.
We were introduced to our next guest during the COVID response. She was the White House Coronavirus Response Coordinator. She's a world-renowned physician, diplomat, and public health expert. She now currently serves as the CEO of Armada Pharmaceuticals and she's also a senior fellow at the George W. Bush Presidential Center. Dr. Deborah Birx. Doctor, welcome to America at Night. Thanks for joining us.
So, a lot of people have PTSD when you talk about this Russia story and the plague. Tell us what you're watching and what you see and what you say when asked. What should we be worried about when it comes to this new Russia story about this woman dying in this hospital?
Well, my biggest worry is we don't have transparency yet again. So, from the original mayor's account, this woman we apparently got, the mayor is the one who really announced that this was a lab accident, that there was a broken test tube. I mean, let's just step back and understand what that is. Even with a broken test tube, this laboratorian should have been in full protective gear. When you're working with this level of class agents, you need to be in full protective gear. So there's a real question, how does she actually get exposed in the laboratory? But that timeline of let's say this actually did happen on September 25th and the incubation period is five, six or seven days, she got sick right at the right time for pneumonic plague. And then if this second case for which there are rumors of a reported death that meets the timeline of exposure when she came in sick September 30th or October 1st and may have exposed additional individuals and if that case is true then this all could be related but we're all speculating at a time in the 21st century where we should know immediately what she has and there should be full transparency about what happened in the laboratory.
I'm just reminded if any of your listeners go to the Pennsylvania or Texas or South Carolina website and look at the public health and community reports, they can see immediately all the measles cases, everyone that's been reported, who's been hospitalized, who's died, and that's transparent. It's open. It's on every single state website. Anyone in the country can go and look at this. And we're trying to piece together what could be happening in Russia, just like we were trying to piece together what was happening in China back in November and December of 2019.
So, are they allowing the World Health Organization in? Are we just relying on Russia? Are they playing ball? Or are they being secretive?
I think we're relying exactly on, you know, China. Like China in 2020 reporting to the WHO that there was no human-to-human transmission when they're locking down communities. They're locking down hospitals and I mean it's so we're all watching and trying to get information out of social media at a time when we should be openly exchanging. The whole world is depending on countries being transparent about what's happening in their country and what potential infectious diseases they have. All of these incidents continue to break trust and really alert I think Americans in general that we do need a better system where Americans can really depend on the US and its like-minded countries having an independent way to find out and get information about these kind of events. Because if you look at the WHO website, it's just reporting what Russia says.
The WHO should be that organization, should they not? They should be the one to go in and to expose the truth and to release it to the public, right? That's what that organization was supposed to do.
Well, and they could have been there a week ago. So, that is exactly, and you're absolutely correct. That is how the World Health Organization was to function. That a country would call them up September 25th or September 30th when this woman first got sick. Now, let's remember this is a young woman and this is a tragedy for her and her family. But there's no way a 27-year-old should die from an unknown pneumonic, in other words, in your lungs event without knowing what it is. And so, yes, normally the WHO would fly in, they would have a press conference, they would say, 'I'm here in Russia. We've investigated this case. This is what we think it is. We're waiting on the autopsy report and we'll have another news conference as soon as that is available.'
You know, imagine in this world today that we said to our countries, well, Russia says they only have 20 nuclear missiles, so we're just going to believe that. No, we always said, okay, we're going to trust but verify. We actually have eyes in the sky to know exactly where nuclear missiles are. We know what the counts are. Yes, there's some transparency and disclosure, but we validate it. We're not doing that with these infectious diseases. We're just believing what countries are saying is happening rather than an independent team going in and validating what's actually happening.
Dr. Deborah Birx, our guest. So really, in a sense, everything we know is what they're telling us. And you as a scientist, you as a doctor, you as somebody who has been in the room is saying, 'Look, yeah, fine to trust them, but we need to verify this.'
Exactly. And that's what the World Health Organization has been set up to do, but they cannot do their job if they can't immediately deploy and go into countries and find out exactly what's happening.
Yeah. I think when we get reports where the mayor and maybe it's often those early reports are from government officials are actually the correct ones and then they occasionally get silenced. And so if the mayor's report was correct, the actions that Russia has been taking are suggestive that they're concerned that this is a deadly infectious disease. You don't quarantine a whole hospital. You don't quarantine a whole laboratory unless you're worried that there is something really potentially deadly that others could have been exposed to and they're worried about potential spread to others. So they may be doing the right thing, but they're not being transparent about why they're taking the actions that they're taking. And so that always leads to more questions than answers.
I want to get back to that and how they're responding inside their own country and what we believe they're doing and what we know they're doing. But they keep saying that the plague is treatable if you get antibiotics soon enough. So the fact that this woman died, what does that tell us? One, you didn't get the medicine soon enough, but what does that tell us? Is it really the plague or is it something else or is it science fiction of some type of genetically modified form of the plague? What are we thinking?
Well, these are brilliant questions. Truly brilliant questions. They're questions I've been asking myself because when you look at what this laboratory was working on, they were working on NIPA, other very deadly infectious diseases. So yes, there were multiple deadly infectious diseases that they were working on. Some of them cause symptoms very close to that. But all these days later with 21st century capacity, we should know by molecular analysis what precisely this was. So the fact that a young woman dies and they're saying what it isn't but not what it is is pretty concerning to me. So I think then you're starting to raise the questions. Well, yes, Yersinia pestis is responsive to antibiotics. We do have plague in the United States in New Mexico. We have been treating people in the past. What it says to me, okay, now a lot of the Russian labs are military labs. They're doing military research often in these laboratories. And so this raises even more questions. You know, were they trying to genetically modify one of these deadly infectious diseases? Did they modify Yersinia pestis to make it antibiotic resistant? I mean these are the kinds of questions that happen when people are not transparent.
So it's in Russia's incredibly best interest to say this is what it is. This is what has happened. This is what we're doing to contain it. And we believe, and because there's really no direct flights from Russia to the United States, it's not the United States at risk. It's but yet another example just within the last few years of governments not being completely transparent when all of us as a global population rely completely on governments being transparent about their infectious diseases in their country.
Dr. Deborah Birx with us for a couple more minutes. You remember her from the White House Coronavirus Response Coordinator back in the early 2020s. The fact that the lab is in the middle of Siberia. Who puts a lab in the middle of Siberia? Unless, of course, you're writing some type of science fiction novel where some virus escapes the lab.
Well, often these labs that work on these highly infectious diseases were in these remote areas. You know, obviously 20, 30 years ago there was a lot of work on in bioweaponry across the globe. After Bratislava there was kind of a détente of how we would deal with bioweapons between the United States and the Soviet Union and a lot of agreements on how these would be contained, how they would be handled and what people would work on. But there hasn't been really openness since then. And so I think you're raising that great question. I think that is in every public health person's mind. If it was run-of-the-mill Yersinia pestis, why don't they just say it?
Because other countries like the United States have experience with bubonic plague. We have experience with Yersinia pestis. Why didn't she respond? Didn't she get antibiotics? Now I just want to be clear. Pneumonic plague is very fast-moving. So if she presented and didn't get antibiotics immediately, individuals, even young individuals, can die within 24, 36 hours. So but Russia does have these antibiotics. They are standard of care. So they're not sexy new antibiotics. They're antibiotics that we've had for quite some time and have been highly effective. And so when you hear about the death, when you hear a rumor about a second death that meets the timeline of the secondary exposure, then it starts raising more and more questions. I want to reassure everybody who's listening though, there's no definitive risk to anyone in the United States. The definitive risk from my perspective is yet again we've been blindsided.
Dr. Deborah Birx, what are you looking at? What are you watching for? What are you anticipating? And take us through your mind as you watch this story. What are you waiting for the next shoe to drop? What are you looking for?
I'm waiting for them to tell us what this young woman died from. Because until they actually tell us that, we're guessing. Now maybe they will never tell us. I mean, for weeks, weeks and weeks, China covered COVID. They did the same thing with SARS. So that was in 2000 and 2003. So countries are reticent to report on infectious diseases but it puts the entire globe at risk and countries that are closer and communities that are close. I mean I'm sure the communities that are surrounding this are very nervous. And we owe it to them to be transparent about what happened in the lab and why a young woman in her late 20s succumbed to some unknown condition that we're calling a pneumonia-like condition. I mean, this is, the longer this goes on, the more people will speculate, the more that there'll be theories and conspiracy theories about what exactly is going on. It's in everyone's best interest for countries to be transparent.
Dr. Deborah Birx, she's a world-renowned physician, diplomat, and public health expert. She now currently serves as CEO of Armada Pharmaceuticals. She's also a senior fellow at the George W. Bush Presidential Center. Professor, doctor, thank you very much for your keen insight. Keep your phone on. We reserve the right to call you back at any time.
Always. Thank you for your questions.
Thank you very much. Dr. Deborah Birx with us. Couple of interesting things. I thought she was really interesting, right? Everyone says, 'Oh, a test tube broke.' You're thinking you're in science class and the test tube broke and it's the beginning of Spider-Man the movie. No, she makes the point these people are in full lab suits and this is highly contagious and this is highly scientific and they're all in their protective gear and if a test tube breaks, well, that doesn't make any sense. That's a really, really, really good point. She also mentioned the World Health Organization and how that's the organization that was set up to go in and be that international independent organization so they could then sort of assist and get the word out and so on and so forth. But remember President Trump's first day back in office, he signed an executive order that withdrew the United States from the World Health Organization. And they were not happy with the way the World Health Organization handled the COVID-19 pandemic originating in Wuhan, China. And they decided to pull out the funding to the World Health Organization. That was an executive order by President Trump. So, we'll see if that happens to boomerang on the administration. But as of now, right, it's official. One scientist has died and Dr. Birx is waiting to find out what she died from and that is going to tell her a lot. Interesting stuff. Dr. Deborah Birx and we all remember her from the COVID-19 news conferences. So, it was nice of her to come on and give us her expertise. America at Night. Back in a moment.
Live from coast to coast. This is America at Night with McGra Milhaven. This is America at Night with McGra Milhaven.
All right. Let's see here. From the text lines. Here we go. From British Columbia. It's so refreshing to hear a voice like yours stand up to the people that sweep big things under the carpet. Thank you very much. Let's see here. Here's another one. BG from New York text in, trust Trump. God bless America. BG. Let me say, oh here's another one from Daryl in North Dakota. Hey McGra. How about my Vikings? They're going to kick their way to the Super Bowl. They have the goat kicker in Reacher. Hasn't missed a field goal and kicks them from 50 yards and beyond. Must have taken lessons from Chuck Norris, who could have kicked them out of this world and into the next universe and returned as a meteor. Yeah, you bet. If he's as good as Chuck Norris, he is a good kicker.
I've got a couple of Super Bowl tickets that I won't be using. I purchased them after week one after the Jets won their first game. I was convinced the Jets were going to the Super Bowl. So, I have a pair of Super Bowl tickets that I will not be using now that the Jets are one and three. I'm still not rooting for the draft pick yet. I'm still rooting for the Jets. I still think they can at least second half of the year, second quarter of the year, start to turn things around a little bit, a little bad luck, right? Play a little better together. Start to settle in a little bit. We'll see how it goes. All right, stay right there.
Next hour we're going to talk to Ari Emanuel, the man who inspired the TV character Ari Gold on Entourage is out with a new book. He is the Hollywood super agent. It's an incredible story of a man who suffered from massive dyslexia to overcome that and to rise from the mail room to become one of the power brokers of Hollywood. The book is called Roll the Calls and it is a blockbuster and we're going to talk with him all next hour. Our executive director, Alex Hinton, our engineer tonight is Richard Good. I'm Mr. Milhaven and this is America at Night on Westwood One.
Westwood One presents America at Night. Here's your host, McGra Milhaven.
Hey, so President Trump says that he'll no longer use taxpayer funds to fund his multi-million dollar pro-Trump ad blitz as we race towards the midterm elections. Everyone's talking about this, but no one's mentioning this part of it. Now, he said that he's no longer going to spend government money, taxpayer funds for the ongoing ads going forward. But he also says that he has no plans to reimburse the federal government for the ads that have already run. That's according to the White House official today. So he's not going to use
taxpayer funds going forward. He's going to direct his super PAC to spend the money, but he's not going to reimburse the federal government going backwards. There's only one problem with all of this, and I haven't heard anybody talk about this.
I'm certainly no expert when it comes to campaign finances and how all these rules work, but I do know that a candidate or a political office holder cannot direct their super PAC in how to spend their money. So when President Trump says, "I'm going to direct my super PAC to spend money on these ads going forward," he's not allowed to do that. Or should I say, other elected officials are not allowed to do that. President Trump can do anything he wants because, well, he's President Trump. So I looked and I was like, "Well, wait a minute. Where shouldn't isn't this sort of a thing where like he can't direct it?" And this, I mean, other elected officials have gotten into some serious trouble over, you know, working too closely in coordination with their super PAC. And this falls under the jurisdiction of the FEC, the Federal Election Commission, which would hold hearings and then figure out if anything was wrong or any shenanigans were, you know, being dealt with.
Well, it turns out the Federal Election Commission doesn't have enough commissioners to hold any meetings. So there's not a quorum. So there's no quorum for the Federal Election Commission, which would hold public officials responsible for breaking the rules or skirting the rules when it comes to direction of their super PACs, in which President Trump just said, "I'm directing my super PAC to pay for these ads going forward." He's not supposed to do that. Not that anybody cares anymore what the rules are, but I just thought I'd make a mention of it that, hey, when he says he's directing a super PAC, he's not supposed to be saying that.
Anyway, on with the show. Stay right there. He is considered one of the most important people in Hollywood. He knows everybody and he is a dealmaker. He's in the green room. His name is Ari Emanuel and he has written a blockbuster New York Times bestselling book. It just came out. Roll the Calls, a memoir by Ari Emanuel, is our guest next. It's chock full of great Hollywood stories. Stay right there. You're going to enjoy this one. Ari Emanuel and the book Roll the Calls next on America at Night. Stay right there.
Coming to you from the heart of the nation. This is America at Night with McGra Milhaven.
Even if you miss the show when it's live, you can be a part of America at Night. Call in any time of day and let McGra know what you think. Leave us a voicemail at 844-2 McGra. That's 844-262-4729.
The book is called Roll the Calls and it's a memoir from a man who is the executive CEO of a company called TKO. It's a sports and entertainment company but is much more than that. The man's name is Ari Emanuel. Ari, welcome to America at Night. Thanks for joining us.
Ari, I've heard you talk about this and a big part of this book is your dyslexia. And you wrote the book, as you say, for children and parents who have dyslexia, and you have overcome it, your handicap, whatever you want to call it, to become a major, major star in Hollywood. Talk for a moment about how it affected you and how you got over it, and what would you tell parents who have children suffering from dyslexia?
Well, I think you actually, there's two reasons. You know, there's lots of reasons that I wrote the book, but two of the reasons is, you know, parents have always come up to me and recently, whether it be, you know, when I'm, I've done LA the last couple weeks, a bunch of interviews on TV, and, you know, people on screen and off screen that either had dyslexia or have children that had dyslexia have all come up to me and, you know, sometimes, and I understand this having kids that are dyslexic. I know what my parents went through. You know, there's a, it's heartbreaking. One, it's heartbreaking to see your kids if they have dyslexia struggle and you would do anything to help them. And you have to realize that they have to go through the struggle to get there. But that's hard for any parent and it's emotional. Two is a parent that has dyslexia and hands it over to their kids. You would never want to give your kids any problems, but you actually, that's, that's the form of dyslexia. And then I just got a text this morning from a gentleman who has had his own issues with dyslexia and other things and the struggles he's gone through, how he's handled keeping himself healthy and all the things. My story is reaffirming his story and he's learning stuff from me, what to do and what not to do. And those are great. That actually makes me feel great that these things are having effect on people. I've gotten many, many stories like that that people are texting me and sending me messages saying what the book has done for them. So my story is my story. Hopefully this gives people some reassurance as parents and the process of like having to, it's okay for your kids to struggle because coming out of it, if they do go through the struggle and they do learn how to read, even if it's slowly, they get a lot of grit, emotional endurance, which is really powerful for the rest of their lives. And kids that have dyslexia, I think, and I think I have it, you know, you have like if you're blind or you're deaf, your senses are in different ways. One, you have better EQ. You have a lot of other skills. You see the world differently. You kind of, you're a free thinker. And those are good things. And take that out of it. As much as I would have loved to have not had the struggles, there are incredible benefits to going through it.
If you didn't have dyslexia, would you have been as successful as you are?
I don't know. I don't, those, I, you know, here's what I know. I had dyslexia. My mother was an incredible woman to kind of got me through it and me doing the work got me through it. I have, I do think differently than people that are reading the linear. And I do have, I think, a different set of how to read a room and how to read people that has been completely advantageous. Not, not in kind of like a weird way, but it like, I, I just, I have different skills than other people that read. And, and I also know how to work with people that I don't have their skills, they don't have my skills, and just making sure that you can work with people to kind of get to the next level has, has been beneficial to me. And one of the things that dyslexia lets you do and teaches you, it's okay to have partners and have people that help you and you help them as opposed to I have to do everything. I have to get all the credit. That's not the case.
Yeah. You, you, you still suffer from it today, right? It isn't something you get over like a broken arm.
I'm one of the, I'm, I'm one of the slowest readers you'll ever meet. Reading out loud and listening to words, I, I, I is, is almost difficult. When I'm giving a speech, I have to practice it for three weeks every day, practicing and practicing. So, so it almost comes as if it's memory. So, yeah. And I, I, I almost read everything, articles, thank God for audio articles, books, all on an audio app. So, it's been, yeah, that, that's how I read now.
The book is called Roll the Calls, a memoir, Ari Emanuel. And if the name sounds familiar, yes, the character from Entourage, Ari Gold, was based on our guest, Ari Emanuel. We'll get to some of that later. I want to go all the way back to the beginning, Ari. You decide you want to become an agent. You don't have any in Hollywood and you ultimately get hired in the mail room at CAA. And tell me that story. How many phone calls did you make to finally get hired at CAA?
So, I was working in New York for mainly a kind of a book agent for a theater guy by the name of Robbie Lance. And this guy who was in the theater business, Bob Duva, and he realizes he wasn't, he was in his late 70s, early 80s, he wasn't going to grow his business anymore. And he turned to me and I was working on the Tennessee Williams, Lillian Hellman, and Dashiell Hammett estates for the theater business. And he turns to me, he says, "You should go to Hollywood. You'll make a lot of money. You'll be very successful." And he said he set up one meeting for me to go into the mail room at CAA. And I had one or two other meetings in Hollywood. And the hot place was CAA. And Mike Ovitz and Ron Meyer and Bill Haber were like the agency. And they had had a great television business. And they had Mike Ovitz to create an unbelievable new kind of form of how to package movie business. And how you get started back in the day was you entered the mail room and you would be, unlike now you could digitally send a script, you would be delivering scripts and everything, driving them to people's houses. And they paid you a base of about $200, $250 a week, and you would then also make 15 cents a mile on how many miles you drove. And so when I went out and got an interview, the gentleman said to me, because I was like 27, I think it was, he said, "You're too old. Most of the people were 21 just coming out." And I'm like, "Too old? Like what are you talking about?" And I just pounded him with calls. And he finally, I don't know after how many calls? A lot of calls. He finally said, it was like on a Thursday or Friday, he said, "If you can get out here by Monday, you have a job in the mail room." And I just started and that was in '88, '87, something like that. And off to the races we went. And you know, it's how you learn the business. You kind of like delivered package. You read all these scripts. You read contracts that were going back and forth. And it was one of the, everybody had done it. You know, Ron Meyer was in the mail room. Mike Ovitz was in the mail room. David Geffen was in the mail room. That's how people learned the business. And then you get on a desk and then you became a, if you're good, you became a baby agent. And that's what I did until, you know, I started this company Endeavor in 1995.
So a lot of people make phone calls and if people made as many phone calls as you say you made in the book, they would get arrested, there would be brought up on charges. There'd be restraining orders. How were you able to make enough phone calls and yet navigate the system so they weren't completely put off by you?
Well, here's what I would say to you is if you're just calling people and like not being self-deprecating, not being funny, not being kind of understanding the ridiculous nature of your act of never giving in and making, even though they're not taking your call and not returning, just keep on pounding away, but you're bringing levity to it. Yes, that would be called stalking. But I also realize you have to be an advocate and you have to sometimes you have to force your will onto such and so there's a dynamic in that. Now there's a perfect example. This is not making phone calls, but I was on a, how I met my partner, who's the president of the company, Mark Shapiro. We're on a plane flying back on a Friday night to the West Coast from New York. It's like the 3 or 4:00 United flight. And in first class, there's only two aisles. And there's two seats, a middle seat, and two seats. And this guy right to my right is typing away. And I'm reading. He's typing away. I'm reading. He's typing away. And this is going on. He's typing with his two index fingers for three, four hours. And I'm now done with all my reading. I've read scripts. I've read articles. I've made my notes. I've done everything. And there's a guy sitting next to him to his right at the window. And I finally can't take what he's doing. And again, this is the perfect example. If it was now, they would have landed the plane and handcuffed me and put me in jail. I go to the guy sitting next to him at the window. I go, "Get up and sit in my seat." And the guy looks at me like I'm... I say, "What do you not understand? Get up and sit in my seat." Mark Shapiro is typing still and he's like looking through his eyes. The guy gets up like I can't even believe I did this and I sit next to Shapiro and I turn to him and I go, "What are you doing?" That was 17 years ago. He tells me he's the president of ESPN. He's doing the president's report for Bob Iger and Michael Eisner. We become fast friends. We're talking every Friday. And you know, that's just being like curious, an advocate for yourself, crazy, all that's me. That story is me and how I've just, whether it be a phone call or a relationship or, you know, I wrestled when I was in high school. I just wrestle the world every day. That's my life.
The book is called Roll the Calls, a memoir. Ari Emanuel, our guest. The book, there's so many stories and so many stories that you're the fool. You're, you, the book is littered with mistakes you made. Why would you write a book and tell all the tales on yourself, you know?
So, I had one of the great writers with me, this guy J.R. He wrote the Agassi book and he wrote a Shoe Dog by Phil Knight book and he wrote a beautiful book about himself called Tender Bar.
Which, by the way, in terms of full disclosure, is my cousin and I have more stories to tell you about J.R., but continue on.
So he said about, I don't know how many years, and he goes, "Are you willing to tell the whole side of both sides of this penny?" And I said, "Yeah, why wouldn't I? I mean, I don't like stories that are like, here's what I did and then I went to do that. You know, there's no straight line to success." And I said to him, the best way for people to understand and get something out of this book, tell all the bad stuff. I'm okay with it. Because I am definitely not perfect. I've made a lot of enemies. I've made a lot of mistakes. I've battled pretty hard. And in the end, it's worked out. And I don't believe in legacy. So I'm not afraid of having a bad conversation about myself or situations or things I screwed up. And after we've been going at this for 10 years, I wanted to paint a true picture of what one's life is. Everybody has their own. And as opposed to one of those biographies, autobiographies that is like, "Oh, I'm just perfect." I'm definitely not perfect. And I think people get more out of the book if you have an honest conversation of the good, the bad, and the ugly. One of the great Western movies of all time.
Ari, hold that thought. The book Roll the Calls, an instant New York Times bestseller. When we come back, he is the man who helped inspire the character Ari Gold from Entourage. And we've got to ask him about Larry David when he officiated his wedding. A classic Hollywood story. America at Night. Back in a moment.
You're listening to America at Night with McGra Milhaven.
Be sure to follow us on Facebook at America at Night.
It's an instant bestseller. Roll the Calls, written by our guest Ari Emanuel. Ari, it's in the book, so I'm not telling any tales out of school. So you're at the, you're in the mail room at CAA and you decide to leave and to...
No, no, no. I was at that point an agent. I was in the mail room. I became an assistant to this guy by the name of David Tenzer. Then I worked for Bruce Viniker and then on the weekends helped out Bill Haber and was right next to his desk. But I had become a baby agent.
And you're going to leave. And you're going to leave and you go in and have a conversation with the legendary Mike Ovitz.
What happens now at that point? One of my guys I used to play basketball all the time with was this guy Jeff Jacobs. And he was a friend. Like we hung out a lot. And he was an assistant for this guy Lee Gabler. And I pick up the phone. I think it was President's Day weekend. I picked up the phone on Monday night. I said, "Listen, I'm going in." This small company had started called Inner Talent where people had broken off from ICM, CAA. And I said, "I'm going to go in tomorrow, just letting you know, I'm not going to tell them that I told you that I'm leaving. I'm joining Inner Talent." And he was like, "Why?" And I said, "Listen, you know, I just wanted to have my own path." He calls me that Tuesday morning and tells me that he had to tell them. I was like, "Why?" And he just said, "I had to." Well, ultimately, he got promoted right away. So he used me to get promoted. And two, when I'm walking in Ovitz's office, he already knows. He knows. And I mean, I can't describe, Mike Ovitz is on Mount Rushmore. The guy was incredible. And I was scared of having this conversation with the most powerful guy in the movie and television business. He says to me, you know, "I can't talk to you right now." I, like a fool, close the door and then I reopen and I tell him, "I'm going to be back in 10 minutes and you're going to deal with me." Then I come back 10 minutes later. I'm in the office. There's the office manager, which is in the book, and this gentleman by the name of Lee Gabler and Mike Ovitz sitting down there on his right and left side. And he kind of goes off when he tells me that, you know, I'm not going to make it in this town, threatening me kind of. And I'm like, I had no move, but I don't like being threatened by anybody. And so I just stand up and I grab this chair with my hand. I pick it up, not over my head, like right shoulder. And I said, "Are you threatening me?" It was my only move. It was the craziest thing. I don't know what came over me. I then, we just like stared down, put the chair down, walked out, and went over to Inner Talent. And that was, yeah, it was crazy.
But did, because he was, Mike Ovitz is Mike Ovitz at that time. I mean, he was in the business. He was like the ruler. Did you, what did you learn from that? Did you learn to sort of...
I mean, that's the madman theory when it comes to foreign policy.
Yeah. I mean, sometimes when you have no more moves, sometimes the only way to get the opponent off their game is you got to like go crazy. And I went crazy. So there's...
With no, I didn't know what to do.
And I didn't know why I did it. I just did it. It was my move.
Are you afraid you are creating a whole lot of Ari Emanuels out there for the next generation of agents?
Here's what I hope the book does. I hope like when I came out to Hollywood, I had plan A. I didn't have plan B. I didn't have plan C. I just had plan A. You better make it here. I think sometimes now, first of all, kids have, I'm going to do this. I'm going to be an influencer. I'm going to do influencer. I'm like, there's multiple plans. I just had with my best friend Pete Berg, who was trying to be a writer, director, actor. We had plan A and we just had to go for it. And I hope also, it's okay to say, I want this for people starting in any business. I want to be the best. And to do that, they have to realize, and hopefully one of the things in the book that they realize is there's a lot of sacrifice you have to make, physical, emotional, you know, relationships, what it takes. And I hopefully I lay them all out in like stark terms about what it takes to be successful. And it's not always pretty. I mean, physically it's hard. I mean, one of the things that in the book I only realized after J.R. told me stuff that took place in the three-week, four-week span. I don't know how I got it done physically, emotionally, but that's what it takes, you know, between family, work, relationships. And I screw it up a lot. And that's, but in the end, it worked out. It's now like, as much as back then I thought it was insanity, I didn't realize the timing, it turned out to be a great story.
And there's lots more to get to. The book is called Roll the Calls, a memoir. Ari Emanuel, our guest for a couple of more minutes and a couple of more stories. One of the reactions to the book, it's an instant bestseller. And the overwhelming reaction to the book that it is inspirational and/or motivating. I don't know if you actually realize that, but you're motivating people just not to join the movie business, but all walks of life, people are being motivated by this book.
Well, that's sweet. I mean, I'm getting some interesting, I keep on checking in. J.R. keeps on telling me, you don't realize what's, people are pulling their own motivation, reactions to that that is inspiring them to do whatever it's going to do. That's fantastic. And I'm so happy about that. I didn't expect that. I think it's an indication of what a great collaborator J.R. is. And people are calling me, clients. They didn't know all the stuff that I went through. They're loving the book and the comedy and the sorrow. And so whatever anybody gets out of it that helps them kind of expose themselves and be honest with themselves that they can move forward. That's exactly what I wanted the book to do.
The book is called Roll the Calls, Ari Emanuel, our guest. We have to talk about Entourage because it was such a great HBO series. And in the book, some of the funniest parts of the book is Jeremy Piven plays you, portrays you as Ari Gold. So it's the real life, it's the fake version of you on...
He never talked to me. We didn't really know each other at the time. He was incredible.
Incredible. Like incredible.
Take me through. I'm only up to season two. I finished season two. Tonight I start season three actually. And because back in the day it was on Sundays. I didn't want to watch the show with Mrs. Ari at the time. Yeah. Because she would ask me questions. The show, because of the situations, would give me anxiety. So I never did. Now it's actually, I get to look at it. I laugh at it. It's funny as hell. I don't get as, I'm not as anxious. Yeah.
