Hello and welcome to the Vergecast, the flagship podcast of multi-point audio. I'm your friend David Pierce and I'm back. Today on the show, we're going to talk headphones. While I've been out, John Higgins on our team has been writing about a bunch of really interesting new pairs of headphones and more broadly some interesting new headphone technology. So, I'm going to drag John onto the show. I'm going to make him talk about all the things he's been testing and reviewing and writing about and see where we are in the world of headphones. But first, here's everything else happening on The Verge today. This is 90 seconds on the Verge for Wednesday, October 7th, 2026.
The first reviews are out for The Social Reckoning, which is the new movie about Mark Zuckerberg, Frances Haugen, and The Facebook Files. The sentiment for the movie is actually kind of all over the place. It's at a 68 on Rotten Tomatoes right now, but I've seen good and bad, and frankly, everything in between, both for the movie and for Jeremy Strong's portrayal of Mark Zuckerberg. Like the Vulture's Charles Bramesco says, it's sort of hard to imagine this movie hitting as hard as The Social Network did all those years ago. That movie really changed the way people thought about Facebook. This one might just be too late to do that. But I do think there's another movie coming out soon called Artificial that might do it to OpenAI.
Meanwhile, Microsoft just showed off its latest Surface devices, including the Surface Laptop Ultra and the Surface RTX Spark Devkit. All this new hardware is expensive. The Ultra starts at $2,600, and it's the cheap one, but it's also impressive, and it is very much designed for people who want to develop with AI. In case you hadn't noticed, Microsoft is all in on Copilot, agents, and AI in general. Although, the Surface Laptop Ultra is also apparently the first laptop ever with built-in magnetic USB-C charging, in case that's a thing you're into.
And finally, we have what looks like some new leaks on Apple's smart home plans. The company appears to be partnering with LG to make a bunch of new devices and accessories like a smart lock, a thermostat, and a bunch of other things. Apple doesn't do a lot of blessing products made by other companies. So, I'm very curious to see how all this shakes out whenever we hear more about Apple's smart home plans, which might be next week. You can read more about all this at theverge.com. That is 90 seconds on the Verge for Wednesday, October 7th.
All right, let's talk headphones. The Verge's John Higgins is here. Hi, John.
It's good to see you. It's been a minute.
It has. It has. It's great to see you as well. Uh, I also feel like you've had kind of a busy fall and this is like I I was particularly excited to talk to you coming back because my grand theory of this moment that we are is it sort of seems like this might be the best moment ever for headphones. And I mean that like non-hyperbolically. Like I think this legitimately might be the best set of headphones available to people that we've ever had. Am I Am I crazy? I want to get into some of the specifics, but it just seems like we've had this run of great stuff coming from all corners, at all price ranges, all over the place. Is it is it as good as it seems to me right now?
I feel like it is. And it's it's strange cuz just a few months ago, I was lamenting the fact that there wasn't interesting new things happening in headphones. And I mean, I got what I wished for, right? Like the past month and a half in particular, we've had some really interesting headphones come out, um, and also just in the past week, uh, news, uh, from Bose of some interesting features being added to existing headphones.
Do you think there's something happening, like is there something in the water right now either technically or in in supply chains? Is there something whose time has come in this space or is it just kind of a delightful accident that everybody decided to release great headphones all at once this September and October?
I think it's a couple things. I think headphones have naturally been getting better and better as we learn more about, uh, how they work and what people prefer with them. So, there's just that natural improvement that takes place over time. But then everybody's like, 'Let's just do it this fall, like late summer, fall. Let's just get stuff out.' And here we are with, uh, with new headphones coming out that are, uh, that are interesting.
There is something to obviously just the it's Q4. It's the holiday season. This is when people launch these things. Like they don't call it Teptember and Techtober for nothing. But I went back to previous years and we've gone through this interesting thing over the years and you've been covering this for a long time so you know this as well as anybody where there have been a bunch of companies that have been kind of slowly leapfrogging one another all the time right and it was like Bose Sony occasionally like Sennheiser would do something great but there's this small set of headphones that are just constantly one-upping each other right and especially in the high-end everything would get slightly better but for the longest time there wasn't sort of new exciting stuff. You would just get the next model because it was very slightly better than the last model and when your headphones broke, get the next one because it'll probably be slightly better.
This year, it feels like we've had not only all of these companies launching kind of all at once, which is new and unusual, but also it feels like there's a bunch of new technology that we've just sort of figured out. And I'm particularly curious how you feel about noise cancellation because it seems to me that not that long ago, who has the best noise cancellation in like a high-end set of headphones was a big and important question and was a reason to buy one over the other because some really sucked and some really didn't. Now, it sort of seems like every time you turn around, pretty much everybody has good noise cancellation. That if you want like a good set of headphones to wear on the plane to make the plane less loud, you're sort of spoiled for choice now. Like we we've just figured out noise cancellation in kind of an incredible way basically.
Yeah. And that like that was the main leapfrogging like you were talking about, right? It was, um, Sony would come out with the XM4 and then Bose would come out with I think the next one was the QC45 and then Sony would up them again with the XM5. And it was them going back and forth, uh, for headphones and then Apple would come out with the Max or actually that was before cuz that was once every 16 years Apple makes once every I mean that's that's their market, right? Um, but but they were pushing it with with, uh, earbuds significantly, right? So, we got to the point there's only so much noise you can block. Also, before it starts just feeling weird in your ears.
Um, I have colleagues, uh, that refer to this as eardrum suck where you put it on and the when when the noise cancelling activates it actually feels like this strange sucking sensation to your ears. Um, because you're losing some of the ability to, um, balance what's happening outside with what's happening within the ear cup. So it for some people it can feel really, um, disconcerting.
Yeah. If it's really strong and everything is just kind of getting to be really good because other companies that might not have the millions of dollars to put into the research, um, or the time that Bose has put in. I mean Bose is the noise cancelling company, right? But they're able to learn from that and purchase some of that technology to put into their headphones that they wouldn't have been able to, uh, research on their own. So, everybody's is getting better. Uh, to the point where, as you said, that's not the reason necessarily to get headphones anymore. I mean, if you want the best, you're going with a Sony, you're going with a Bose. If you want it to work with your Apple stuff as best as possible, you're going with the, uh, with the Max 2. But, um, yeah, that's not the defining factor. That's not the leapfrogging anymore. Everybody makes headphones that do, you know, noise cancelling really well.
And down into, um, you know, Anker Soundcore stuff does a good job. I mean, you can get into $40 and $60 earbuds from companies like EarFun that have been around for a few years and make bargain level products that have great noise cancelling as well as other features and good sound and all that sort of stuff. So, uh, it is it's pretty remarkable where we've come from just three or four years ago.
Yeah, I have this pair of headphones that I bought from the TikTok shop. This company, Pickin or Pikun or something. They're they're literally the most egregious knockoffs you could imagine of the AirPods Max. And in almost every way, they are vastly inferior except noise cancelling at which they are great. And it it's just it is one of those things that was a really eye-opening moment for me. It was like these $40 obvious knockoff headphones have perfectly adequate noise cancellation. And it was like, oh, this is great. So, to that point though, is there a new arms race? What what do these companies have left to fight about and compete on and try to one-up each other for, especially at the high end of the market? Is there anything left?
I think it's adding features that maybe have been newer. Uh, one of the ones that I've been most excited about over the past few years is Auracast.
I was going to ask you about Auracast. Okay, good.
Yeah. So, just for people that aren't aware of what it is, it's I think the easiest way to think about it is it's a way for your headphones to connect to an open broadcast in the same way that your car stereo connects to an FM broadcast. Uh, it's not as far range, but what can happen is if you're at the airport, like the the the big, uh, examples are an airport or a lecture hall or, um, or even at home, you can do it with some TVs like LG and and Samsung include it with some of their TVs, although they don't promote it as much as I would like. Uh, but what it does is you it transmits out an audio signal, an audio broadcast that an Auracast-capable, um, headphone can then connect to.
And it's not like multi-point where you can only get a couple, you know, you can only connect to a couple things at a time. Any number of headphones that support Auracast have the ability to connect to a, uh, a broadcast. So, you're at the airport and they're broadcasting out the, um, uh, gate announcements, which are very difficult to to make out, at least for me.
Of course, right? That's my experience every time. Was that my gate? Was that the gate? Who Who is that for? And, uh, I'm I am already stressed about travel. So, adding the stress of not knowing what the announcements are is another thing.
But then you can get those announcements directly to your headphones and be able to hear clearly what's going on. Uh, if you are in a lecture hall and the, uh, professor has an Auracast microphone, they can broadcast that directly to your headphones so you don't miss anything that you might need to learn for the next final. Um, it's great for accessibility and people that have difficulty hearing or difficulty picking out what they need to hear from a noisy environment. At the gym, you can put those on, get the audio from the TV, you know, stuff like that and block out with your noise cancelling, block out all of that music that you might not want to hear.
Yeah, Auracast is one of those things that not that long ago I I kind of poo-pooed as sort of a solution in search of a problem, right? Neat idea that you can connect a bunch of headphones to a thing, but what is this really for? And I think what you just described strikes me as exactly right where it's it's the kind of thing that will be a killer app in a thousand tiny little pieces, right? That you can just some people might have one specific thing like my example of this is, uh, I have a newborn child who sleeps a lot but is also very disturbed by the action movies that I like to watch at two o'clock in the morning while she's like feeding on top of me. And being able to like sit next to my wife and have us both wear a pair of headphones and watch TV is like an honest-to-god life-changing technological use case right now.
And not everyone will have that particular use case. I I I spend a lot of time now finagling the Roku private listening thing through my phone, which like kind of works. But it is this thing that if you can just make the technology work more seamlessly, I think there's actually a lot of stuff you will start to see once a feature like Auracast is supported everywhere. So it's it seems to me like it is totally a solution in search of a problem until it's everywhere and then we might see a lot of cool stuff start to happen. And it does seem like pretty quickly all these companies are starting to adopt it which is awesome.
Yeah, it's it's the adoption that's the issue, right? Cuz you need you need the ability to receive it in the headphones, but you need places to actually be broadcasting these signals, right? And it's like if one in 10 people who come in are going to have an Auracast set of headphones, who cares? But by the time you have most of the major brands supporting it, it becomes essentially everybody is covered, which I think is really cool and feels like it's coming.
Yeah. And the TV thing at home at night, I think, is one of the best use cases for everybody. And it's a it's something that like Sonos is trying to to do with their new Ace, uh, Ultra headphones, uh, by adding the ability, uh, or they had them on the on the original Ace, but, uh, being able to, uh, swap get connect to your TV audio from a soundbar.
A shockingly difficult problem in the world given all the technology we have, but it is it's cool to see that slowly starting to get better. I do want to come to the Sonos headphones because they're they're one of five models here that I'm going to ask you about specifically. But before we do, there's one other category I think is interesting, which is these open-ear headphones, which not that long ago felt like a very sort of niche thing. They were like the the Shokz open-ear ones that you wore with the headband. They were for runners. Now it feels like this is a really sort of completely mainstream new kind of headphones that are showing up. What do you make of open-ear headphones by the sudden explosion in models of this kind?
Well, when you're working out outside in particular, when you're running, you need to be able to hear what's around you just for safety. Uh, and for a while, you know, one of my favorite running headphones, uh, or series of of running headphones, or I should say earbuds, uh, were from, um, Jabra. They made fantastic, uh, workout, uh, either running or or, you know, at the gym or something. Uh, and then they pulled out of the consumer, uh, earbuds market.
I was just about to say Jabra is one of those names that I remember like 20 years ago shopping for and I have not heard the name Jabra in some time.
It's been I want to say, uh, three years or so since they completely pulled out of consumer earbuds. Uh, they're they've re-entered into sort of like work hybrid earbuds, things like that. Uh, but they were focusing on hearing aids and and assisted listening. Um, but that sort of those were great and it sort of left a void. But those were also, you know, you put them in your ears and they either have a wing or they have like a grippy surface to keep them in there when you're running down the street. Um, a lot of people don't like the feeling of stuff in their ears. You know, it's not.
I'm one of those people. Yep.
Well, I mean, you're you and so many others and it makes sense to not want to jam something in your ear and then you're worried about it. Um, you talk about like the the ear pressure and that sucking feeling like I get that feeling when I shove something all the way into my ear canal. Uh, and especially with things that feel a little flimsy and you feel like you have to like really shove it into your skull for them not to fall out of your head.
I hate that. I have always been team AirPods over team AirPods Pro for that exact reason. Yeah, it makes sense because they more sit in instead of or sit on your ear as opposed to really in. They're semi-open.
Exactly. And I think this is why I'm so excited about the rise of open-ear headphones in general. They just feel like they solve that problem for me in a really exciting way.
Yeah. And you know, they there was the bone conduction, uh, solution that was around and is still, you know, being used. Uh, now they use what what marketing terms call air conduction, which is, you know, just how sound works.
Sound. I was just going to say, I'm no scientist, but I'm pretty sure that's what sound is.
It's unbelievable. Um, but yes, the fact that they sort of sit around your ear so they're not coming off. I haven't found any of these open earbuds where I've felt an issue like they're gonna they're going to fall out. Uh, specifically the clip ones too. Um, but they're just they're shooting the sound into your ear. So are you getting as good sound quality as you would get with something that is actually securely in your ear? No. You can't get that sort of bass response. You can't get the separation from the ambient noise that's happening outside. Um, but as I, you know, you don't necessarily want that. You want to be able to hear what's happening around you. And these allow you that they allow you to hear music. They are secure. It it it solves a lot of the problems that people have when it comes to workout headphones. Or if you're going down the street and you just want to be aware, you're walking at night.
Um, maybe not you or I, but if you're a woman walking at night, you want to be able to hear what's around you.
Totally. And you might still want the the idea just the look of being separated from from people so they don't bother you as well. Um, so I think they they serve a few different things. Um, and you know, are they the best sounding things in the world? No. Will they be the best sounding things in the world? No. Are they fine? Yep. Right. I mean I've walked around with them. The Sony ones are pretty good. Um, but, uh, yeah, I I'm happy with that series of stuff that's come out and that there's now a solution for people that want to work out that don't want to jam things in their ears.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm really bullish on that category in general for for all the reasons you said and because I think increasingly there are a lot of people who just kind of leave a headphone in, right? Like I think it is so societally normal now to just have a one headphone in, which is still weird to me. I mean, I don't know if I like that. I'm also like an old man yelling at clouds right now, but like I don't just take them out.
I can tell you from experience, we're going to get a lot of emails on both sides of this argument. Um, and please know that I hear all of you. Uh, but I do think that that thing where I can I can get enough information, right? I can hear the podcast. I can hear the Siri response or the Gemini response. You have that little bit of latent connection without being a completely immersive thing I think is a is a really cool and good use of this kind of technology. I still think most of them look stupid. Like the ones that just clip on your ear just look weird to me. It does not feel to me like we have solved this form factor. But if you if you find the ones that you're like, 'Oh, these don't look like weird bad earrings.' Um, I'm very excited to hear about them.
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Before I let you get out of here, I I want to I want to run through five of the specific models that you've talked about, and I want you to just give me kind of the let's steal the Netflix rating system, which is, you know, thumbs up, two thumbs up, or thumbs down. Uh, okay. Which to me is the only good rating system that exists anywhere. And someday we'll get deep into my feelings about that. Um, but I think there's a bunch of interesting models out there right now and I just want to kind of get your temperature on a bunch of them. Does that sound good?
All right. Uh, let's start with the Nothing Headphone One Pro, which I think are a very unexpected and new kind of thing from this this upstart headphone brand, Nothing. What do you make of these?
Um, they surprised me. I'm going to be honest.
Okay. Uh, one, I was surprised they used the stupid Apple bra case idea.
What if our case accomplished nothing and looked stupid? Is that what you're talking about?
I mean, if you're going to steal from Apple, why are you stealing them? But beyond that, they have the Nothing look, right? I mean, that's one of the things I think Nothing does really well is they separate themselves apart from other headphones by having a very distinct and cohesive look across the line. So, kudos to the design team on that. They're also really comfortable. Uh, they they sound they sound good. Um, I'm going to be updating my, uh, my review of them actually with with a score. But I, uh, I like for the most part how they sound. I like that I can do a bit of tuning for my preference, uh, in a way that, um, is just less harsh on the highs. Um, but they, uh, and they come with this interesting mode where it's called flat EQ that they worked with, um, a studio in London and it, uh, the idea is it's for mixers so that they can, uh, flatten out the EQ.
I haven't done measurements for it. I haven't seen measurements for it. I'm waiting for sound guys to do their measurements because they do great great measurements. Um, so I'm curious as to how flat it actually is. Uh, but for those that are looking for that, I think it's an interesting way to just flip a switch, literally, and get a different, uh, sound. So, um, I will I I'm definitely a thumbs up for me. Uh, two thumbs up is is a real high bar.
I agree with that for me when it comes to headphones. I'm curious if any of these are going to get two thumbs up from you actually, which I'm I'm excited to get into here. But I I think I think I agree and I think it's been cool to see Nothing which has done a really good job with cheap earbuds. Like for for $100, you'd be hard-pressed to find a better set of earbuds than what Nothing has made the last couple of revs. So, it's it's cool to see them playing around at the higher end this way, too.
I know that's the high end.
Definitely high end, unfortunately. I mean, they're right up against Sony's. They're right up against Bose.
They're right up against Apple Max on sale on significant sale.
So, um, next on my list, the Sonos Ace Ultra. A somewhat confusing set of headphones at this moment. Uh, how are you feeling about them?
I think they're the Ace headphones that they should have come out with two years ago.
I think that seems right. Like, what if we did the Ace but correctly this time? Seems like kind of the answer.
