I don't think Joe Rogan's some evil guy. If you're getting 82 million, you have to do a lot better.
Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher, and once again, it's time for Scott August.
That's right, Scott Free August is well underway. And for my guest co-host today, I brought in another one of Scott Galloway's heroes: comedian, television host, seven-time New York Times best-selling author, Chelsea Handler.
Oh, Kara, it's so nice to be with you. I'm so happy.
I'm so happy to be with you. I have to tell you how much comfort you guys have provided me during this administration. And yeah, I just love tuning in. I love how reasonable you are. I love how you are able to insult people but remain on good terms with them.
Some of them. Some of them, not all.
I love your pragmatism, and I just really appreciate having a safe space to tune into when I really feel distressed, because you always seem to feel like there's a sense of optimism, and I think that's because you have young children. So you have to be optimistic.
I have to be. I absolutely have to be. I actually am. I'm a student of history, so I know that all things come to an end. I'm a student of death.
I cannot wait for this all to come to an end. Let's make it happen.
Let's make it happen. And does this apply to Scott, too, or...
No, I love Scott. I have a very soft spot for Scott. While Scott can be slightly... what's the word?
What is the word? It's a brotherly kind of feeling I get from him when you want him to stop it, as you do quite often on the podcast.
Yeah. Don't be such a nitwit.
Sometimes he can have this sense of irritation, but then the minute he's gone, you miss him. You know what I mean? It's a pull-push-pull. He says things and you're like, 'Okay, come on. Stop it already. You're feeling yourself. We get it.' But then when he's gone, immediately you're like, 'I want Scott back.'
Yes, that's true. And also just for people to know, Chelsea always texts me anytime Scott says a word she doesn't like. What is the word you hate the most?
Well, it's not that. Listen, I just... when people are super educated and they use terms like 'anyways,' I find that to be problematic. I find it to be a lazy way of speaking.
Yeah. Yeah. You don't like 'anyways.'
'Anyways' is just so lazy. 'Anyway' is actually lazy. You don't just move on to the next topic. You don't even have to say 'anyway' as applause or whatever it is. But yeah, I find some words... when he says that, I just always... because Scott is so smart and I look up to him, and physically, I mean literally and figuratively. So it's disappointing when he uses it so often and frequently. And thank you for letting your audience know how I feel about it.
Well, I like grammar people. I do enjoy all your grammatical corrections and words. No, I'm not always right, but I am a grammarian. I really love language meanings and I love etymology and I love understanding words and how to use them properly. I'm learning Spanish right now, so I'm on a whole new trajectory of learning words and that. So, yeah, I respect people who really respect language because we're losing it. What is the word that you have an issue that he uses? Menacious.
Menacious. He doesn't use it correctly. He doesn't use it. It's a great word.
But sometimes he uses it incorrectly. So that's all right. It's just my wife does that. That's her word, drives her crazy because it's a word because she likes the word. It's a great word.
It is a great word. And I also am more forgiving for using a great word slightly incorrectly rather than using a word that doesn't exist.
And I like that he uses it 'mendacious.' I think that works. Okay, that one, that was a great way to do it. But, you know, Spencer Pratt just insulted Scott's intelligence, which we push back against.
I heard that on your last podcast when Scott was here. Yeah, Spencer Pratt is no longer in our zeitgeist, so we don't have to worry about him anymore.
I don't know. I think he'll be back, Chelsea.
I don't think so. I'm going to predict before the predictions that Spencer Pratt is gone forever.
Gone forever? I don't know. He was at the White House recently, but you know, so were a lot.
So were a lot of people. I saw Peter Navarro was still hanging around the White House. I was like, 'Who him again?'
Well, hopefully he was in the reflecting pool taking a swim. No, he faced down. No, he was not. Before we get into anything serious, I have to talk to you about your summer vacation because you put up a nine-slide Instagram carousel, which I loved, late last month about rules for family vacation season. Let me read an excerpt: 'Our family is dysfunctional, and that is what families are. What we need to work on, however, is manners. There is a definite shortfall of manners on this trip, and I left this trip feeling embarrassed and taken advantage of.' What happened? I love this. I love your entire memo.
Well, thank you. I want to first say that I wrote this in my last book, which came out a couple of years ago. So this is an older letter. It's not a newer letter. But what happened when I did write this letter in real time, because a lot of people were like, 'Why would you share something like this publicly?' And you know, my answer to that is always, 'Why wouldn't I?' But beautifully written. Thank you. It was post-therapy, so I definitely had some skills that I hadn't had before when writing that letter. But also, I had sent that letter to two women who were mothers to get their feedback at the time that I wrote it, to see if it was toned correctly, you know, and everything, or the tenor was appropriate. And they were both asked if they could take the letter and send it to some of their friends, and they would take my name off of the letter. And I was like, 'Okay.' And they're like, 'This is an amazing letter. You should definitely send this to your family.' So I gave them permission to share that letter. And about nine months later, I got the letter sent to me from a friend who didn't know that I had written it.
And she said, 'I just read this thing. It's so perfect. You have to send this to your family.'
I was like, 'Oh my god, it's been around the world in 30 days.' I go, 'I wrote this letter.' And she's like, 'No, you didn't.' I go, 'Yes, I wrote this letter. It's coming out in my book.'
And it's about my family, right?
And it's about my family. And because of that response and because of the realization of the impact that it had on so many people who felt similarly, I just thought, 'Oh, this will help more people than it will hurt.' My family had already read the letter, so it's old news, so we're not still upset about it.
What caused you to write it in the first place? I mean, what I thought when I heard it, I was like, 'Great.' You know, when you're throwing up... I often pay for vacations too with the family, and I'm always like, 'Why am I cleaning up?' or 'Why aren't you making your bed?' or that kind of stuff. And I use the term 'ingrates.' Everyone thinks it's funny when I say it, but I'm like, 'Ingrates, all of you.' And it kind of had that tone in a good way. What caused you to write it? Because my big thing is when my kids are not... and they are very polite to people who work for us, or we hire cleaning people, or that... if that ever happens, I lose my mind. My oldest son is extraordinarily polite to people who work for us and we hire. But it's a really big deal for me that really when I read that part, I was like, 'Oh, I don't like that at all.'
Well, that is it. That's what it comes down to. It's like, how are you parented? Who told you that you didn't have to say hello and thank you and please and all of the things? So it was just kind of like I got excited. I went a little too hard, too fast with my family. You know, I wanted to share everything I have with my family, with all my nieces and nephews and my brothers and sisters and their spouses. I was just always... I'm a generous person. I always want to share and invite them and take them on these great adventures. And I just overdid it, clearly, and they became accustomed to it. A costume brace in español. A costume bar. I just learned that word. They just became used to it without the understanding of what it costs, what it takes. It's a choice I make. I work really hard to pay for these things. And your acclimation to it is a little bit too cozy.
The acclimation is fast, isn't it? I said literally to my youngest son, 'This all he's for.' And he threw something and I go, 'Do you cost me to pay for that?' Like, you... and he looked at me. I'm like, 'No, you don't. But you will.'
No, no, but you shall. You shall be one of you will. But also, and not in a way to be like, 'I'm a hero. I'm saving my family. I'm the best.' It's not about that. It's about the way you are treating everybody and the way that you are being gracious, you know. I would never be a guest in someone's... I don't even like to be guests in other people's places or houses. It's not my favorite thing. I have a great family. We have a lot of good times. So, yeah, I'm grateful for that and I don't want to lose that and I just had to figure out how to recalibrate that so everybody's not getting it twisted.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you could just do like I do, run around the house and yell 'ingrates' all the time. So you joined us last year on Live Pivot Tour. We were in LA, and thank you for doing that. And you were about to head out to Antarctica. And that trip gave you some material for a tour you're currently on called the High and Mighty Tour. Explain your tour. It's like you added like a million and a hundred cities.
Well, we just do it in phases. So you're always adding a second leg to your tour. You know, when you're a comedian, you do leg one, leg two. So the High and Mighty Tour is a feel-good, happy vibe tour to make sure everybody knows that there are alternatives to dealing with the reality we're living in. And the biggest one being LSD and microdosing. There are a lot of... as you covered a lot in your CNN series, you know, there are a lot of alternatives to dealing with this 24-hour-a-day news cycle. And I have had to become healthy in my thought process and in the way I go about dealing with this administration the second time around. The first time, they stole my joy and they stole my life, and I let it go. And I was like, 'They're not doing that again.'
And they're 10 times worse, actually.
10 times worse. But my joy... my joy is not for sale and it's not up for grabs. And also, it's a responsibility as a comedian, and I say this very seriously, to provide a really good time for other people while we're all dealing with this. And so I take that as a professional responsibility. One of my many professional responsibilities is to make sure people are having a good time, to remind people about humanity. When you're sitting in an audience next to a stranger that you've never met and you're laughing so hard that your shoulders are rubbing, that's a great reminder of the fact that we're all in this together. But you don't ignore it either. You're not a bummer. And second of all, you are kind of a real news junkie in a lot of ways. Like you do pay attention to everything, pretty much.
Yes, I do. But I don't let it drive me in the way that I let it drive me into a hole the first administration, right? You know, so LSD is the answer to this, or what?
Well, that is one answer, to be honest, Kara. Microdosing LSD. You know, I moved into my house in Whistler. I bought this little ski chalet in Whistler when COVID happened and I had to escape my family. And I bought this little chalet on FaceTime because I wanted to learn how to ski. I'm like, 'If the borders are going to shut down, I'm going to go skiing and make something good out of this horror show.'
You're going to Maria von Trapp this thing.
Yeah. So I get into this house that I rented in Whistler, and I mean, sorry, that I bought, right? I get in and there's a manila envelope waiting for me. And on the manila envelope, it's from the previous owners, and they were like, 'We were so excited when we found out that you were buying our house that we wanted to give you this gift. We make this.' And I opened it and it was 300 microdoses of LSD. And I was like, 'Uh, finally I had found my real family,' you know. Like I'm like, 'This is why I love Canada. They're so civilized.' You know, people hear LSD and they think about the '70s. It's not like that anymore. It's therapeutic. It's helping people with PTSD. It's helping vets. So I'm very about, you know, finding ways to make things better when they seem... coping.
Yeah, absolutely. We all know alcohol is terrible for you. So there are other alternatives out there, as you've discussed and I've discussed. So did you enjoy the LSD?
I hand it out to anyone who will take it. I bring it around people at my shows. I mean, it's all around. So nothing gives me more pleasure than giving someone medicine and saying, 'Report back,' and then following up with my patients.
Yeah. I'm not going to say which one of my children had tried LSD in my house, but it didn't last long, I can tell you.
Well, I think you've spoken about that before, and let's just hope it's not the four-year-old.
Yeah, it's not the four-year-old.
Well, you're going to always have a child like that. When you choose to have so many children, Kara, someone's going to go off.
One's going to go off. They're all pretty good right now. They're all so far so good. Let's talk a little bit about your podcast because here you are on a podcast, Dear Chelsea, which you started a few years ago and now streams on Netflix. And by the way, which Scott predicted about a month before that happened, he predicted that iHeart podcasts were, or you know, a bunch of podcasts were going to go and be on Netflix, right? This is the full podcast network with iHeart that you have bought a bunch. Talk a little bit about that. What's the business strategy behind that? And is it because you saw how much money Joe Rogan was making and figured you could do better than 82 million?
I don't make $82 million a year. I don't think I've ever made $82 million a year. If that's the right figure for Joe Rogan, and Mike, first of all, I want to thank you for bringing up Joe Rogan because I want to clarify that, or actually expound on that. Joe, like, I don't think Joe Rogan's some evil guy. You know what I mean? I don't think that... I've known Joe.
Explain what happened. Explain what happened so people know.
They were releasing how much money podcasters were making, and it said Joe Rogan made $82 million. And I commented something about that's a lot of money for something to do with the misinformation, or being misinformed. And I don't think Joe Rogan is like enemy number one. I just feel like... I know because I've looked into this, and you know, there's so much research about it that this whole manosphere and this whole environment that is built on social media, it's like you go in through one portal and these young boys are being fed over and over and over again this information. So you go into Joe Rogan, who's got the biggest platform in podcasting and has, you know, is pretty responsible, has one of the biggest factors in getting Donald Trump elected, has this platform, and it would really behoove us for him to use that for good in this moment when there are so many people who are, you know, former Trump supporters who are ready to admit how horribly wrong this has been going and how horrible this administration has been in multiple ways. You know, there's Dave Smith, there's Sean Strickland, those guys who were former Trump supporters, but there's also really great guys that are standing up for the rights of women, that are standing up for the rights of the LGBT community, that are standing up for people of color that you wouldn't... that would seemingly be Trump supporters. There's people like Trey Crowder, John Russell on Instagram, Brian Andrews, and I want to shout these guys out because they are sending such positive messaging and they are talking about this. You know, we're going to get Todd Blanche. He's going to be confirmed, and he's going to overturn Roe v. Wade. We're all sitting around, all these men who have these powerful platforms are sitting around watching this happen to women, to communities that you could instead be supporting. You don't have to turn over a whole new leaf. It's just about being a decent human being. You know, if I make a comment about Joe or one of those guys, you know, Joe Rogan can lead. He's not the worst version of anything. He's just trying to be... I think he's genuinely trying to find out information. But when you do mess up, like, come on, you know, that leads to guys going to the Fresh and Fit podcast. That leads to guys going to Andrew Tate, which is the worst version of that. But I'm not comparing him to Joe. It's not the same thing. But you get in this algorithm, and there have been so many studies that show that these boys...
Yes, it goes from one thing to the next.
They did this study where they gave boys... they had blank phones and they assigned them, you know, made them seem like they were teenage boys' phones. And within 23 minutes, they're fed women-hating content, how terrible women are, women are ruining your lives, these people are taking your jobs. This is... and it's just hate, hate, hate, vitriol, vitriol, vitriol. And so I would just love for these guys to come full circle and be like, 'Hey, actually we don't hate women. We don't want women's rights to be taken away.' Like that shouldn't be controversial, you know? Like we're obviously... the tenor of things has gotten... So you want him to do better. You want... I think he knows better now. If you're getting 82 million, you have to do a lot better, right? That comes with a big responsibility. I take my responsibility pretty major. Yeah. When people are watching my stuff or my comedy or coming... maybe they're getting fed things on being an independent woman, you know. Ooh. Like I know that's also a problem for a lot of these guys, but it shouldn't be. Why is that a problem for you?
He doesn't seem too bothered, which means he is bothered. He said he's hugged you every time he's seen you. Apparently, that's the test. And quote, 'I don't know what's going on, but it has nothing to do with me.' He said that. I don't know if you know that.
Okay. Well, that's nice, but you know, it does have something to do with him. And I don't hate him. But you know, like to speak to that, you know, I make that comment and my DMs are filled with people who are trying to get on this dating matchmaking site I'm doing, and men defending Joe Rogan's $82 million and calling me a [__] and a [__] and using the n-word and that I'm an... like it's so vile. Like I wish he could see that that represents a portion of the people that are listening to him. We don't need to be talking to women in this way, and we need to be denouncing that behavior. So it's a larger issue, obviously, you know.
Yeah, you're making a salient point. That's a lot of money for someone who isn't vetting his information as well as he could be.
And if I have made $82 million at any point in my career in a year, I would love someone to tell me.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, they're very sensitive. I'm like, 'Oh, for goodness sake.'
I know. And you're not being a [__] dog. I know. I know.
Get a [__] dog. I don't know what to... In fact, don't get a dog. You don't deserve a dog.
But listen. Listen. I am so used to men telling me to shut the [__] up. I mean, they've been telling me to shut the [__] up since I started talking.
So it's okay. You only embolden me. I don't believe I'm a [__]. So sorry. You didn't get me.
Well, not in the bad way of a [__]. Just in...
In the best way, or the best [__] ever. You've launched this full podcast network with iHeart and Netflix. How do you... talk about your business plans? What is the point? What are you doing here? How do you look at the business given...
Great question. I mean, my business acumen is not up to snuff. Let's be honest. I've been very lucky and fortunate, and I move quickly. Like, if there's an opportunity that I like and I want, then I'll go for it. This opportunity came to me. I've had a great experience with iHeart. It was important for me to also give platforms to other comedians. I just launched a podcast for Yamana Saunders called You're the Problem with Yamana because I was sick of listening to her complain. So I thought it would be great for her to have her own podcast. And I have another one coming out in a few months for another person that I think deserves a platform. And so that was a big element. The other element is the podcast has been really successful, which has been a great surprise because I'm giving advice on the podcast, which is silly, and its intention was silly, but it has actually turned into quite something quite serious at times. People call in for real life advice, and it makes a lot of sense because, you know, who better to give advice on a subject that has nothing to do with your personal situation, who's got no emotions involved? You know, not like my advice is always flawless, but I'm going to have an opinion, and I have a strong one, and I am kind of a sister vibe. You know, I always want everyone to kind of take a leap of faith and make the jump and leave the bad work vibe or leave the bad relationship and ask for better stuff for yourself. You know, you kind of have...
And you want to create a network too of others, right? It's actually... that's a great idea. It's a powerful thing to have more. I think about that now.
Yeah. It's called the Dear Chelsea Network. And I just... Yeah. So podcasting has been a great gift. I mean, we're basically circling the drain here because it's the new, you know, talk show. So now they're doing a talk show for, you know, $20 million less than they were doing it, and nobody has to do hair and makeup. Great. I guess everyone's happy. So I'm fine with that.
They can be bus. Do you like being on Netflix? Is that an interesting...
I mean, I've had a long relationship with Netflix. So Netflix feels like a home for me in many ways. All my specials are on Netflix except one is on HBO. I mean, I did my show on Netflix. I did my documentaries. So yeah, I mean, Netflix is a very good place for comedians to be, and I've had a good long relationship with them.
Yeah. Yeah. You know Obama's going to have a podcast about him reading what books he reads.
I know. I had the same feeling. It's all about his books. I'm going to say yes. Yay.
I know. Listen, I'm not mad at anything Obama does except...
I know. I know. I know. I'm like, could it be a little angrier or something? Could it be a little more?
I'm sure he's angry. I'm sure he is very mindful of not betraying his anger and...
I guess... and dumping it on us.
Yeah. You know, I don't know. I don't know. I feel like he could do something besides books. I feel like there's a place for him. People seem to like him. That kind of thing.
I don't know. I don't know. Give advice maybe or something like that.
Let's get some real news now. Even though it sounds like something out of a movie or a Taylor Swift concert. A reported Iranian assassination threat against Donald Trump prompted an elaborate decoy operation. During his trip to Turkey last month, Trump boarded the old Air Force One in front of cameras. He ditched his new Qatari-gifted jet to ride on the legacy plane for old times' sake, as he put it, which was untrue. But shortly after boarding, he left one plane for another plane. He was secretly smuggled off the second plane in a catering truck and taken to a smaller military plane, which he flew home. Meanwhile, reporters and even some White House staff took off on Air Force One, believing Trump was on board, and were basically sitting ducks without being told of the assassination plot. So it was a decoy. That's what they called it. What did you think about him getting smuggled out in a catering...
Well, first of all, I love the idea of him being in a catering cart. I mean, this is a great way for him to bring back Trump Shuttle, his failed bankrupt airline.
Oh, yeah. And make it a catering cart with wings. That should be his next.
But I love it. I love it because first of all, he survived two assassination attempts, so why not just play Russian roulette? I mean, you're bulletproof, right? Let's go for it. See what happens.
The idea that he... I saw his clip of what he said to the reporters after, like, 'You're on a date. This is a very dangerous job.' Maybe while he bailed on them and was like, 'You guys,' which of course he would do at any time. But that's so fake bravery, and then he jumps into the...
I mean, no, I don't think anyone believes Donald Trump is brave at this point, you know? I mean, that's all gone out the window. Maybe some people still believe it, but yes, I love the idea of him riding around in a catering cart, hopefully on his knees to duck for cover, you know. It's just such a circus.
Yeah. I was trying to think this morning before we started, like, what would be more ridiculous than what we're watching? And I was like, would Snooki, you know, from Jersey Shore, or would one of the housewives, the Real Housewives, be more ridiculous? It's like, no, actually they would be more sensible.
Yeah, they would. They would. The fact that he cut and run on people and then didn't tell them that they were a sitting duck to me is...
They were decoys. They were decoys for this terrifying president, which is really...
I mean, but that's so him. That's like his whole staff watches him operate in this way and then thinks that they're going to be saved by him. It's so silly. You know, these... the den of incompetency that surrounds him is just like... I love how they think that there's a long game. What is the long game in this, right? There isn't one. He just wants to save his own skin. He's always done that way. Remember when he went under the bunker when people were protesting outside the White House? He went deep in the bunker like he's scared of people. He's scared... Well, the Iranians are terrifying. At the same time, doing it this way is just so typical of him.
I just can't believe we're in a war with Iran and we're walking around like... I grew up believing that if we went to war with Iran, that would be nuclear and the world would be over. So the fact that we are... how... six months into this war.
Six months at least. Yeah.
And with no end in sight because he's, you know, he's an embarrassment. He has no idea what he's doing. Snooki would actually be able to probably end this war in a more efficacious way than he would. And he won't end it now. He doesn't care. We're running out of weapons, aren't we? Running out of munitions.
Yeah, we're running out of munitions. Yeah, that's Pete Hegseth's problem. That's why he did it.
Did you see him? That was amazing. Wiping his nose and then...
I know. They're all on drugs. They all are wiping their noses and sniffling, sweating. They're all so gross. It's almost like... it's not like he hired people that weren't competent. He hired the most incompetent.
Right. Absolutely. Each...
Each position, the Pete Hegseth, the Kristi Noem, the Dan Bongino, like all of these people are just... it's... Yeah. So it's so hard to... I mean, I've been spending a lot of time out of the country, and people are just... they feel so sorry for us.
Yeah. What do they say to you, Chelsea? They just are like, 'Oh my god, what are you guys thinking?' Like, it's so amazing how looped into America every other country is. I was in Norway and way up in Bergen, and they're like, 'What is happening?' And I was like, 'I don't have any explanation for you. I can't tell you except we suck. Like, I don't know what else to say.' Like, it's really hard when they see it, and they're just perplexed in the extreme. Like everywhere I've gone abroad, it's like that.
Yeah. I went into this conference and I was listening to these European leaders talk about Trump, and they were talking about the EU and how, you know, like you have to get 28 countries to agree on something, on a measure to like stand up to him or do something, or you know, even with Ukraine and Russia, and you have to get 28 countries to agree, right? And like that's almost... how's that going to happen, you know? That's what... And so Europe, when I thought, 'Oh, they'll stand up against Trump,' and now we know we do. The president of Spain has said stuff. There's other people that have said stuff. The woman president of Italy, or the prime minister. Is she president? She's a president, right?
And you're supposed to know this.
She's prime minister. She's prime minister.
Prime Minister. You know, but as a coalition, it made me understand why Europe isn't stronger against Trump in a more cohesive way.
They're doing more than many people in this country, let's just say.
Let's go on a quick break. When we get back, we'll talk about, speaking of incompetence, RFK Jr. and the right-wing media's future.
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Chelsea, we're back. I'm going to play something for you. It comes with a trigger warning.
Hi, I'm Robert F. Kennedy Jr., your HHS secretary. Welcome to the Real Food Show. Thanks to President Trump, we flipped the food pyramid and put real food back where it belongs, at the center of the American plate. I'm traveling across America, connecting with renowned chefs to show families how to cook delicious, nutritious meals with real ingredients, all at affordable prices. America, it's time to eat real food.
There you have the dulcet tones of RFK Jr.'s new cooking show. Do you think it's going to be a hit? You had a real estate beef with him too. But and then this week, of course, the vaccines, the childhood vaccination schedule, which most parents will be ignoring, at least in certain states.
Yeah. Most people just ignore.
I mean, the only positive thing about this is that maybe with so much food in his mouth, we won't be able to hear him talk. I mean, he is... who asked for this, first of all? Who wants to watch sautéed roadkill? My experience with Robert, like if this is anything like my experience buying my house from him and Cheryl Hines, which I didn't know I was doing because it was a blind trust and I was buying in a blind trust, blah blah blah. If it was anything like that experience, this show will cost $5 million to subscribe to and $20 million to get the video to play, right? And the taxpayer will pay for it.
Yes. Of course. Of course. And we don't need our heads of departments or heads of health and human services on TV shows. Why? That's also not... nobody's asking for that. Nobody's asking to hear him talk more.
Mhm. He likes to talk. He's running for president, you know.
Well, good luck with that.
Well, then you'll be living in the ex-president. You don't live there, right?
He's not going to win. Nobody will listen to that voice. Nobody's down for that.
Except for Cheryl Hines, I guess.
I guess she seems to like it.
Another... the most unqualified person for the job. Another person that shouldn't be doing this job, not only doesn't have but shouldn't be anywhere near health and human services, is running the department. And now some people who are uneducated about vaccines are going to listen to that. There will be people that will listen to it. Of course, there's a lot now, and they feel, well, he's trying to deliver on his promises to wreck everything. But also, yeah. And that's another point, you know, that Trump is going to tear everything apart on his way out.
