Welcome to the Vergecast, the flagship podcast of weird ideas about smartphones. I'm your friend David Pierce, and I am sitting here reading this book, Apple: The First 50 Years by David Pogue. I got an advanced copy of it, not to brag, but it is exactly what you think it is. It is an epic, like 600-page tome all about the first 50 years of Apple. It's fascinating. There's so much in here that I didn't know. Like, I have covered Apple so much as a product company, but understanding what was going on inside of the company, and in particular the ways in which Steve Jobs was both unbelievably good at his job and managed to drive absolutely everybody insane all of the time. It's just fascinating. There's so much interesting sort of internal machination drama in this story. It's very good. And even if you are somebody who knows a lot about Apple, as I like to think that I am, this book is worth a read. It's the 50th anniversary of Apple starting next week. We're going to have a bunch of Apple coverage. Lots to do. Very excited about it. I got to finish this book in part so that I can do all of that coverage.
Anyway, today on the Vergecast, most of the show is going to be my conversation with Allison Johnson, our senior reviewer, about my phone journey. I've mentioned this a few times, but I've spent the last several months trying like every phone I could get my hands on. I've tried flip phones and foldable phones. I tried a phone with a keyboard. I just tried to go and see if there is something better than the phone everybody just defaults to. Right? I've had an iPhone for forever and was like, well, maybe it's time to see if it is worth the work to go get a different phone. I've had a lot of thoughts. I have done a lot of testing. I've done a lot of phone switching and I just needed somebody to bounce some ideas off of. So, I grabbed Allison and we're going to talk through where we are in the phone world right now. Also, we have a really fun hotline question about AI and vibe coding and how to think about what these tools can actually do for us. All of that is coming up in just a second. But first, I promised myself that every time I sit down to read this book, I'm going to read a chapter without getting distracted by TikTok. And so far, it's not going great, but I'm going to keep trying. This is the Vergecast. We'll be right back.
All right, we're back. The Verge's senior phone reviewer Allison Johnson is here. Hi, Allison.
So, over the last few months, I've been on this wild phone journey that I just imposed on myself because I was really bored of my iPhone 16. And unlike you, I'm not a phone reviewer anymore. So, I'm not perpetually switching phones. And I think you and I both agree that when you are a phone reviewer, it warps you slightly. And I found myself in this place of like, okay, I've actually had an iPhone pretty much as my only phone for like four years now, and that's the longest I have gone without being a phone reviewer in a very long time. And I'm just sort of bored of the iPhone. I was like, okay, I don't review phones, but also I know a lot of people who will send me phones to test for a couple of weeks. So, I just did that, called in a bunch of phones. I've tried a whole bunch of them, and I've come to you with 10 observations. These are a mix of, I would say, I have many, but this may be a six-part podcast we do, but I think I'm going to tell you, well, I'll just tell you where I landed, and then I want to get into, I have this mix of, I would say, sort of hot takes about phones that I want to gut check on, and then just a bunch of things I encountered that surprised me that I want to talk about.
Okay, so my end point, just to say the upsetting part first, I bought an iPhone.
Okay, I knew that was coming.
This is not, frankly, where I expected to land. And as of not very long ago, it was not where I was going to land. But I went out the other day and I bought an iPhone 17. It's sage.
It looks lovely. Oh, great choice.
I love the color. I am medium happy with the phone in the same way that I was medium happy with the iPhone 16.
But you got that high refresh rate screen back.
I did. You're still wrong about the always-on display, which is bad.
I love it. Did you turn just the picture off?
It's better. It is definitely better. And you can do it. So, it mostly just shows you the time now, which is what I'm looking for and what I appreciate. It's better.
It's still better on the Pixel.
But I think through these 10 things I have for you, I can start to explain to you why I landed on an iPhone. And then I want you to tell me if you think I made the wrong decision at the end of this process or not. Does it sound good?
Okay. So, thing number one, switching phones is awful. Like, awful, awful, awful, awful. And it's everyone's fault. And I don't know what to do about it. So, like, just the very first thing I had to do, and I know you have to do this all the time, I had to switch my eSIM from an iPhone to an Android phone.
Oh god. Nightmare. Nightmare process. Did it work?
It worked after I both called a person at Verizon and they were like, "Do you have another phone I can call you back on?" And I was like, "Who says yes to that?" Like, "No, I have the one phone. What are you talking about? Like, this is my phone. I have the phone from you. What do you want from me?" And they were like, "Oh, I see." I had to have them call my mom to authenticate the account. So, I literally had to message my mom from my computer while my phone was off in order for her to authorize them. It's insane. So, it's this like 36-hour process just to change my eSIM. And then I complained about this on the show and I got messages from people who work at Verizon who were like, "Yeah, we know it's awful."
Yeah, they do. They should feel bad about it.
And I suffer through it. So, that's why I'm like, I'm on eSIM. I guess I'm going to have this iPhone for a little bit.
Yeah. No, it's really true. And I think there is something about the pain of switching phones that is part of the lock-in of it, and even from Android to Android, right? So once you get on to Android, the switching process is much easier.
So the first phone I tried was the Motorola Razr Ultra, the flip phone, because I was like, maybe this is the time when flip phones are for me. They're not, which we're going to get to. But that switch was awful. And then I switched from the Razr to the Pixel and moving the eSIM there was like two taps. Couldn't have been easier. Terrific times. But the process of moving all of your stuff, even though that's getting easier, still takes a while, whatever. But like you have to go and you're logged into some things but not others. You have to do this horrible process of trying to transfer like WhatsApp data and Signal data and that breaks in a bunch of ways. One for me is like I have run out of downloads on some books on Kindle because I have to go in and manually redo this every time. So, it's just like there is this unknowable amount of things you have to do every time you set up a new phone that with each of these it took like most of a week before it felt like I was just seamlessly using my phone.
How do you do this all the time? You do this all the time.
I do. So my secret is I kind of just YOLO and I don't worry about the messaging apps. Like I just lose all my messages every time I switch phones.
It's so annoying. My friends are so annoyed because I'll text them and be like, "Dude, I don't know. Where's this show tonight? Like, who bought the tickets? It's somewhere. This information is on a phone."
Yeah. They're like, "Scroll up, Allison." And you're like, "I can't. I literally cannot."
They're used to it. They understand that this is how I operate. Yeah. And my method, I think, is a little different because I want to make sure I'm not like bringing some baggage from the previous phone to the current phone. So, I just like clean slate, set everything up from scratch, which is worse and like better in some ways. I have the password manager. My life would be over if I didn't have the password manager to just like autofill everything. And yeah, that's just kind of how I live my life. There's like an awful two hours where I'm like logging into stuff and inevitably it's the parking app. I end up on a street in Seattle downloading the parking app and my husband's like, "Oh my god, we have to do this again."
And you have to download it and then you have to log in and then you have to check your email for the verification thing and God only knows what notification settings you have on your phone so you'll know whether the email came in or not. And then you have to go back and that may or may not have worked because these apps don't talk to each other very well. Like, it's just the number of times you're in an app and then you go to the email client and then you click on the verify link and it opens the browser instead, like nightmare. And there's so many things and part of me is like, okay, I'm not sure I actually think it's a better answer to have all of that stuff so bundled together that I get a new phone and everything is just magically logged in in there. Like, there are security issues with that that I think are probably real and valid. But it really, like, switching phones is awful.
Yeah, it's so awful. I've been so desensitized and I like offer therapy to my friends when they're like, "It's time to switch phones." I'm like, "You got this."
And I had the fun experience of being at the Apple store buying the new one that I bought. And I wound up basically just deciding to go through the process at the store, right? Normally like I buy the thing and go home and do it myself. And this time I was like, "I'm a normal person now. Let's do it with the Apple representative." It took two hours and it was not a good time. But I got to watch a bunch of people go through this and there were a bunch of people who had come into the Apple store just to update their software. And they're there because I think people are like, when I make this change, something is going to break.
And I'm kind of like, you're probably right about that.
They want to be in a safe space when it happens.
Totally. And I think the fact that that is the case and that's how people feel about getting new devices and new software is such a damning critique of the state of all of these things.
Yeah. Like I truly, I got to the point where I planned to do this with more phones. I wanted to like really go down the rabbit hole of Android phones and I got to the point where I was like, if I have to do this stupid Signal transfer one more time, I'm going to lose my mind. Okay. So that's thing number one. Thing number two, you and I have talked about flip phones and fold phones a lot, and I think I've figured out what's wrong. I think, okay, flip phones have a software problem, and foldable phones have a hardware problem. I think foldable phones are still too big. They're still too clumsy for a lot of things. I've been using a Pixel Fold and the thing where you can't functionally open it with one hand and still sort of, it's just awkward in a way that I don't think is right and they have durability problems. The camera is not usually as good. Like this thing, if you could just make it a little smoother and a little better, I think the idea of it's more screen would be more compelling to me because it is more screen and I like the more screen. I do more than I expected, honestly.
Yeah. Did you use the Z Fold 7 is my question?
I didn't. Samsung wouldn't send me one because you have one. Like, if I'm just being honest, that is what happened. They were like, Allison already has one.
All right, I'll bring it to the East Coast next time I'm there.
But I also ruled out Samsung at the beginning of this because, just to be perfectly blunt, Samsung's take on Android is not for me. Like I get that it's for lots of people and there are lots of good reasons to like Samsung phones, but the way that One UI works on top of Android just feels like a mess to me and I have never liked it and I still don't like it now. So I didn't even go very far down the road with any Samsung device, but I did try to get a Z Fold 7 because I know you love it and they wouldn't send me one.
So that's on the foldable side. I think, you know, I keep saying there's no killer app for it and I still kind of believe that, but I can open it up and it is bigger to read on. It is cooler than I thought. It just is like, I enjoyed having a big screen more than I expected. But the trade-off of what it's like to actually use the thing didn't quite feel worth it for me. On the flip side, this is the right phone hardware. This is the Motorola Razr Pro Ultra. I love the hardware of this phone and I get absolutely nothing out of using it.
Well, so it's like you open it up and everything is like too tall and the keyboard's kind of wacky and nothing's in the right place because everything is still up at the top of this very tall phone and it just doesn't quite work. And then you close it and it treats it like it's a completely different phone on the outside. So it's constantly asking permission to use an app on the external screen and like, buddy, it's my phone. What are we doing here? And then you go to respond to a text message and it opens up the keyboard and then you can't see the message anymore and like, it's as if no one at Motorola ever closed the phone when they were developing this thing and it drives me absolutely insane. But I look at this and I'm like, there is something about this and the like quick bits of information that it gives you and the stuff you can do with it propped up like this on a table taking pictures, like there is stuff here that works for me. It's just none of the software makes any sense there.
Yeah, it's wonky. And if you can believe it, Samsung's is even wonkier. I guess maybe that's a surprise. Motorola is at least like, we'll let you opt into opening an app on the outer screen, you weirdo. It's going to look all strange, right? Samsung makes you download Good Lock, which is an adventure.
Yeah, I know. I mean, I think I like the flips and tend to be a person who's like, I'm willing to deal with a little wonkiness. And yeah, the texting experience on the outside screen is not ideal and I don't want to write all of my texts that way. But I do do that thing where I'm like, I will actually respond to the text because it's just an option right there and I don't have to like dive into the phone and come face to face with everything. I'm the worst for like, I'll see a text and think of a response and send it in a week when I get around to it.
Yeah, probably never. A lot of nevers for me.
It's great. Yeah, my friends all love that too. Yeah, that's I think one of my favorite things, the camera, being able to prop up and use the outer camera. And the texting from the outer screen are kind of my favorite things, but that was not enough to move the needle for you, it sounds like.
Like again, those are good examples. There just need to be 50 more of them for this form factor to really work for me. And it's like there's just so many little tweaks to bits of the operating system that don't exist. I also found I tend to hold the phone like this, kind of grabbed in my palm when I'm just using it closed. I have brought up Gemini by accident maybe 45,000 times in the process of doing that. Just constantly, it's just right where your finger is and then it's like, oh, I did Gemini again over and over and over and over again.
Okay, observation number three. This is just, I need a gut check from you on this. Purely anecdotally, but I get maybe 10 times as many spam calls on an iPhone than I do on Android. It was shocking to me how many of them went away, particularly when I was using the Pixel. And then I like switch back to the iPhone and boom, there's this one, it's like a company that calls wanting me to donate blood that calls me like twice a day. Just gone for weeks thanks to the Pixel and now suddenly back on the iPhone like... Android is better at this.
They are. Yeah. And I think in iPhone settings they've provided more things, but you kind of have to, I could be wrong, I don't spend tons and tons of time on iOS, but you can opt to have like all unknown calls just disappear and go away. Or like numbers that aren't...
Right. Yeah, that always scares me a little bit where I'm like, well, maybe someone's going to call me from daycare from a weird number and my kid is bleeding and I need, I don't know. Yeah. Things like that kind of scare me.
Yeah. The Pixel and Android in general just seems to be smarter about like either just straight up labeling it with a big like, this is probably spam, don't worry about it. Or just like not bothering you at all, which is good.
Yeah. Yeah. I got back to near 100% just answering the phone every time it rang on Android, which has not been the case on iPhone for years for me. Yeah, it was just fascinating. Okay, next one. Gemini is so much better than Siri. It is astounding. And it kind of changes the way I use my phone. Like I found myself doing things with the voice assistant that I would never even think to do on the iPhone because I would just assume that it's broken. Like the joke now is you do things, you're like, you know, hey Siri, what's 2 plus 2? And it's like, would you like me to ask ChatGPT? It's like, well, this is, what are we even doing here? So, I have just sort of switched my brain off on all these things that I might do. You know, instead of like going to Chrome and Googling something to get information, just asking Gemini for that piece of information. Siri is so bad at these basic things that I don't do them anymore. And they slowly started to creep back. Like, I use Gemini a lot on Android to control the phone, to do things, to open apps, to find stuff in the Play Store. Like, it is a good orchestrator of your phone in a way that Siri just never has been. And I think that might be for me the biggest single advantage of Android over iOS at this point.
Yeah. And it's wild because we've seen it happen in real time. Like Gemini was not great at first and there was a lot of stuff it could not do. But like in the true Google fashion, they've sort of like fixed things and added things gradually. Putting personal intelligence in the mix has like kind of blown my mind where like a year ago I would argue with Gemini like about where my flight was taking off and it would be like, no, no, no, you're leaving from San Jose. I'm like, it is in my calendar. You can read my calendar. I don't need to do that anymore with Gemini. And it changes how you think about like finding information on your phone or just you're wondering something and you know you can ask it. I find myself like when I switch to iOS, I redevelop that muscle in Android where I'm like, I'll just ask Gemini or this is a Gemini thing. And then I look at the iPhone, I'm like, no. Like I can download Gemini, but I try to give Siri the benefit of the doubt and it just, no. No.
Even if you asked Siri to open Gemini, there's like, it's like 60-40. It wouldn't work.
Oh my god. I didn't even think of doing that.
Yeah. Speaking of which, actually, you've been using a feature I have not yet gotten access to on any of my devices, which is the task automation stuff, which feels like that's the next step of this certainly for Gemini and also in theory for Siri. How is that going? Are you actually doing stuff on your phone just by asking Gemini to do it?
Yes, it's going. I am both like, my mind is kind of blown because it's the thing we've been promised. You can ask Gemini like, order me a pizza and it's going to open the app and do the thing for you and it works on a phone that I'm holding in my hand that isn't like in a keynote. It is wonky. It will sometimes fail at things. It's slow, like painfully slow if you watch it. Yeah. But the key things to kind of remember, like it's sort of in beta first of all and whatever. It's designed to work in the background. So you tell it, like my use case is I'm running around the house trying to put socks on my kid and pack all the snacks and do all the things. I frequently want to order a Starbucks at that point. That is the time for this feature is to be like, "Hey, order me that thing for pickup from my Starbucks" and it will do it. It's wild. Like, you can watch the phone use the phone. So I'm existing in two states of like, I don't want to oversell this thing. It is a little wonky and limited right now, but also like, holy crap, this is the future, you know? I say like, "Hey, I have a flight tomorrow. Schedule me an Uber to get me there on time."
And it had a follow-up question I had to answer, but it did it and it like did it right. I'm like, "Oh my god, that is very cool."
Yeah. I was actually thinking about the food example. For whatever reason, all the restaurants near me use the Toast app for pickup and stuff. So I have basically just like a run of every takeout order I've ever done in Toast. And just the idea of being able to be like, "Order me the usual from The Junction, which is the coffee shop down the street." And it's like, just take the, I try to take the kids to daycare so I can just sort of pick it up on my way home. And if I could just say that to my phone instead of having to put them in while with one hand scrolling to find the recent orders and do it, like that's the kind of thing that is a relatively small task, but if I can just offload the 12 taps, it instantly makes my life better.
Yeah, it sounds ridiculous. It sounds like an extreme first-world problem, but once you do it and you see it, you're like, "This makes so much more sense than the way like tapping around the phone." I ordered a Starbucks coffee from the wrong Starbucks when I was at the JFK airport. I ordered a coffee a thousand miles away. I welcome a robot doing that for me. Like...
Every time I go to the Starbucks app, it still defaults to California because that's where I lived when I set up the Starbucks app. We're doing great, everybody.
You live there forever now.
