Hey everyone, Edson here. We are launching our own ProfG Markets YouTube channel this Monday. So, please go subscribe now to ProfG Markets. That is where you will find all of our content starting next week. You will not find it on the Profy Pod channel. So, go subscribe. The link is in the description. Thank you and until then, enjoy this episode. Today's number, 49%. That's how much more likely AI chatbots are than humans to validate a user's action, even if it's deceitful, illegal, or harmful. True story. I asked my ex-wife what she wanted for Christmas, and she said, "A divorce." And I said, "That's way too [__] expensive."
I'm doing all right. Um, I'm in New York. Um, yeah, I'm doing okay. How are you doing?
Well, that was fascinating, Ed. Uh, we don't talk about me enough. Um, okay. I'm doing great. I'm headed to Florida on Thursday. I'm going to take some time off. My kids are coming with me. They'll get to see their friends. And yeah, I'm super excited. I'm going to Los Angeles uh to get more projects going that will soon be cancelled.
Yeah. Or TV talk. My book has been optioned, Notes on Being a Man. And it's either going to be a documentary or a...
Yeah, there you go. It's either going to be... I can mock my failure in Hollywood. You cannot. It's either going to be which you like better, a documentary on young men and the challenges they face, including solutions, or an original scripted series that's sort of an R-rated Wonder Years.
Original scripted series. Louis Theroux already did it, and he did it better than anyone could.
Yeah, this would be a little bit different. Have you seen The Manosphere?
I have. I thought it was one of the best documentaries I've seen in years.
Well, let's talk about that. What did you take away from that?
Honestly, I think my biggest takeaway was the fact that there is an entirely different media ecosystem that is flourishing beneath a lot of people's noses. And I mean, I thought Louis, the way he conducted himself was excellent, and I thought that he, the way he exposed what is happening and the messages that are being put out there by these guys was excellent. But I honestly, I think the big takeaway, what I loved about it, is that he shined a light on how huge these guys have become. And most people don't really know the names of these people. They don't really know who Justin Waller and Sneako and H3Ticky are. But I mean, thousands, hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of young children love these guys. And so what he did was he showed like this is exactly what is happening. And he didn't, you know, he didn't really mince words about it. He literally went into the... he, as the documentary says, he went inside of it and he showed us what's really happening there. I thought the way he did it was just excellent. Even the way that they showed how the live streams work and the comments streaming in and how things get reposted and clipped up and repackaged, like it was really a lesson on how media works today in a way that I think a lot of people could honestly benefit from. The manosphere starts off positive. The fact that there's a group of people or thought leaders trying to speak to young men, I think it's a positive thing and it starts fine. Be fit, be action-oriented, take responsibility for your life, initiate action, and then it just comes off the tracks. It's all about money. It's all about dominance. It's all about the grift. It's all about misogyny.
Um, which is really a shame. But I have another theory I want to lay on you as a young person, and maybe we'll get Claire's reaction. So, 80% of women under the age of 30 now don't have a kid. And I don't think it's because they've decided they don't like kids. I think it's because they're having trouble finding economically and emotionally viable partners. And also, there's less venues for men to demonstrate excellence. And I think one of the ways that men demonstrate excellence, and bear with me right now, I think that the lack of bars, the lack of venues, the lack of people going out, I think that young people... I think we should have tax subsidies for places that offer dancing. I'm convinced that one of the venues for mating is when people dance. And now nobody dances. I just read an article saying the number of times a person under the age of 25 dances is off 60% because they're worried about being filmed and mocked, and that people aren't drinking as much so they aren't dancing. And I remember, I go back, you know, everything is anecdotal here, but I remember in college the initial stages of flirtation were dancing with somebody, and that we need more dancing in young people's lives. Anyways, Ed and Claire, more dancing. Could that be a solve here?
I think that's one of the problems, but there are way more problems.
I'm not suggesting it's the solve.
You said tax subsidies, right, for places that offer it. My idea is to have subsidies for third places, and that is a place we don't work or sleep, where young people get together in the company of each other for no other reason than to do something together.
Yeah, I love the idea. I also think some of the best clubs in New York are the ones that don't allow phones on the dance floor for exactly that reason. I mean, I think partying has just been ruined by phones and concerts have been ruined by phones. It's kind of sad to go to them these days and everyone just has their phone out recording the situation instead of just living in it.
Yeah. Instead of being in the moment. Yeah.
Yeah. Instead of being in the moment and meeting people. So clubs that have phone-free dance floors I think would be a good thing to encourage. All that said, we have our guest in the lobby. Are we good to move on?
All right, let's bring him on. We spent a lot of time on this podcast talking about where young people are struggling, and relationships are near the top of the list. Fewer young people are getting into relationships, and even fewer are getting married. The shift is dramatic. 60 years ago, more than 75% of 25-year-olds were married. Today, it's less than 25%. So, instead of asking why relationships are breaking down, we brought in someone who sees firsthand how they fall apart. James Sexton is a divorce attorney who spent his career on the front lines of failed marriages, making him uniquely qualified to tell us what not to do. He has been an attorney for 25 years and has earned a place in the top 1% of family law attorneys practicing in New York. So, James Sexton, thank you very much for joining us on Profy Markets.
Thanks so much for having me. Great to see you guys.
So, I'll start with a question here. Something that we often talk about on this show is the fact that money seems to be a big problem in relationships. Some people say that it's the number one issue that married couples fight about. And we've also seen that it's actually the second leading cause of divorce behind infidelity. I'd just be curious to get your perspective: to what extent has money and money management played a role in the divorces that you've seen over the course of your career?
Yeah, I mean, money is a tremendous piece of the puzzle. I think it's not just the money itself, but it's also what the money comes to symbolize for people. You know, I think people who grow up with economic insecurity, money comes to symbolize all the things they didn't have in their life. So, it becomes, you know, money is a symbol of security. Money is a symbol of, you know, peace and tranquility, safety, a feeling of not being so afraid. So I think, you know, when that gets threatened, it creates tremendous distrust between parties. When people lose their jobs, when there's economic instability, when technological innovation changes the job landscape, that has a tremendous effect. I mean, there's a high correlation between men losing their job and the divorce rate. Um, because there's a significant hit to a man, you know, as men being defined in many cultures as being, you know, the provider, the protector. Feeling like as a result of factors beyond your control, you've lost your job, you know, is a tremendously difficult experience for anyone, but certainly for men when they're defined in their role as a provider. And then you see second-order effects that come from that. Substance use issues as a coping mechanism. You know, men being disincentivized to, you know, participate in genuine things like therapy. That might be a better solution than trying to pour whiskey on the shame. So, you see money underneath all these things. But I always try to say to people, even when you're talking about infidelity, we want simple explanations for the complex problem of a divorce and the breakdown of a relationship. But I think, you know, people go, you know, get divorced the same way they go bankrupt: very slowly and then all at once. And so no single raindrop is responsible for the flood, but all of these little things add up. And then there is some final indignity, some final moment, whether that's infidelity, whether that's financial impropriety, um, that, you know, really is the straw that breaks the camel's back. And, um, you know, I see that both with when I used to represent, you know, the cop and the teacher and all they really have is a 401k and a house. And now I represent billionaires and they have some of the same problems. You know, there's just no... if a hundred million isn't enough, 500's not going to be enough. If a billion's not enough, 8 billion's not going to be enough. Um, and I think that has, you know, a lot of second-order effects on relationships.
James, it's really good to see you. I feel as if I know you. I see you so much on TikTok. The algorithm consistently says you'll be interested in what this guy has to say. Um, so you see couples on the back end after it's gone south. Uh, do you have kids, James?
I do. You and I both are fathers of sons. I'm a little further down the road. I have a 26-year-old and a 28-year-old.
So, if you had... I would imagine at this point you're asked on the front end for advice around how to avoid ever seeing you or your colleagues. You've talked really eloquently about some of the red flags in a relationship. If you were to advise people who are thinking about getting married and say, and by the way, I don't expect any of them to listen. I find that when people are in that situation, they don't listen. By the way, I have found it is a no-win situation to tell your friend not to get married because they get married anyways, but they tell their spouse that you told them not to get married anyway. So, what are the two or three red flags you would say you really want to be mindful of if you're thinking about getting married, in a partner or in the relationship more broadly?
I am very much a believer still in marriage. I think the value that a good marriage adds to someone's life is just beyond measure, and I think on every level. Um, but I think marriage is like the lottery. You're probably not going to win. But if you win, what you win is so good that it would be really difficult to argue you shouldn't, you know, buy the ticket. And unlike the lottery, you can actually do things to improve your chances of success in a marriage. And I think the red flags are actually sort of the counter of what I would see as what you need to do for the marriage to be a successful and stable one. And I think, you know, you're a divorced man. I'm a divorced man. Like, we learn from my mistakes. I have to step on the rake in order to learn how to do something well. And I think sometimes people who've been divorced or have shepherded, you know, hundreds if not thousands now of people through a divorce, we get a very unique view of, okay, here's where people get things wrong. I think big red flags are the things that draw us together are sometimes things that in the long term are going to be hard for us to navigate. So, you know, you may love the fact that you're this disciplined, focused, really, you know, like OCD person and she is, you know, more like, you know, free and easy. It's a barefoot-in-the-park kind of a thing going on. You know, in dating, like, you help her be a little more serious. She helps you be a little lighter-hearted. Man, that feels so good when you're dating somebody. But when you marry someone, those habits and those, you know, that polarity that brought you together, it might start being something that's antagonistic and it's going to start creating long-term issues. Because again, marriage, it's such an odd thing, modern marriage, because we've really packaged it as this person's your best friend, best roommate, best co-parent, best financial partner, best travel partner, best companion animal partner. Like, it's a long list, you know? If I was talking to you about a chef and said, you know, José Andrés is an amazing chef, would you be like, well, but can he farm? You're like, well, no. Like, those things have to do with food, both of them, but it doesn't mean like if you're not good at one or you're automatically good at one, you'd be good at the others. So, I think, you know, not being mindful of how the polarity that drew you together might have long-term difficult effects. So, that would be red flag number one. Red flag number two would be the inability or the fear. Like, if you feel a real fear about talking to this person about issues between the two of you, that's a huge red flag. Like, you are going to have disagreements with your partner. You're going to have to navigate difficult conversations. When I talk to people about prenuptial agreements, you know, very often people will say like, "Well, I'm just, you know, I don't want to have this uncomfortable conversation." And I want to say to them, if you don't feel comfortable having an uncomfortable conversation with this person, you might want to choose one of the other 8 billion other options because you're going to have to have difficult conversations from time to time. And I guess a third one, you know, would be... you're sort of, you know, act like it's a little contrary to each other, right? Are a little contradictory, but I think two major mistakes people make when they're getting married is thinking that if I marry this person, they're never going to change. They're going to stay the way they are. Like, this is so great. It's going so well. I want it to stay really good, so I'm going to marry them because that will be like the wall we build around this thing, the fortress that'll keep it safe. And I just don't think that's honest. I don't think you can have a long-term relationship with someone, have the changes, the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune that everybody has in their life. Um, and conversely, thinking that marriage will change a person is another big problem. Like, they are going to change, but they may not change in the ways you hope they would as a function of marriage. Like, you know, he drinks a little too much now, but once we get married, if we have kids, he'll stop that. You know, he works a ton now, but once we get married, he'll make more time and he won't push it so red line. Like, I think sometimes the things we think are going to change don't, and the things we hope won't do, and that leads, unless there's good communication, that leads to a lot of disappointment.
So, just a follow-on here. So, Ed's girlfriend is much higher character, much hotter than him. Is that a problem? Sorry, couldn't resist. I've been waiting.
I mean, listen, playing above the rim is excellent. That has been excellent. I've been waiting for 10 minutes to say that. So, let's talk about... let's say that things work out and in a moment of weakness she agrees to marry him. Give them advice. What are two or three best practices during the marriage that make it less likely they'll be in your office?
I mean, you know, Ed, first of all, what I'll say is Scott and I are proof of the fact that thank God for good women with terrible taste in men. That's right.
That is something you... bad vision. That is a good thing. Okay. So, yeah, when you're playing above the rim, realize you're playing above the rim. So, that's a good thing. Um, but what you know...
I think one step I think is really important is to talk when you're not fighting about, hey, at some point we're going to disagree on something. What does that look like for you? Do you need a minute? Are you somebody that like, give me a minute so the emotion of it calms down and maybe we sleep on it, we'll talk in the morning. Or are you the, "Hey, we got to figure this out right now. I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight if we don't work it out right now. Like, I need you to engage with me on this because I can't let this sit and fester." The time to have that conversation is when you are in that place of abundant goodwill and deep connection to each other. And you, because look, this is a job the two of you signed up for, the job of loving each other, the job of being the other person's person. Like, marriage is fundamentally you're my favorite person. Like, there are 8 billion in the world and you're my favorite one.
What more beautiful four words could someone say than you're my favorite person? And what more beautiful four words could you hear someone say and know they mean than you're my favorite person? Like, that's the most lovely sentiment. And if I had a toast for you at your wedding, you know, it would be I hope 50 years from now, one of you, when you're losing each other, because every marriage ends, it ends in death or divorce. And I hope yours will end in death. That's a weird thing to say to a human being, but I hope it does. I hope what you'll say to each other is, "This person helped me become the most authentic version of myself, and they're still my favorite person." And that's the greatest blessing you could shoot for. And I think the way to do that is to not be afraid to talk about, hey, when we disconnect, what's the best way to reconnect? The other thing is I think that, look, man, we have all these gadgets, all these reminders, all these little watches and whoops and all the things we all use, you know. I don't think there's anything wrong with, you know, every day just taking a minute to remind yourself, hey, her, like, keep her in your line of sight. You know, we're busy people. We're hardworking people. We got a million things going on. We're spinning all kinds of plates. And any woman who's signing up for someone like you or either of us, they're doing it for, you know, a reason. They know we're as advertised. But take a minute. Take a minute to just, because right now you're still trying to close the deal. You know, you're still trying to impress each other. You know, and I think that if you can keep a little piece of that, like, what does it take to send her a text message that just says, "Hey, I was in the coffee shop and that song came on that, you know, it makes me think of you." Or, you know, "Hey, you know, it was so fun on the couch watching TV with you last night. I'm so glad I have the prettiest girl in the world. You know, I caught her eye." What does that take? 30 seconds. That is the equivalent of her sending you nudes. Like, that is for her. Like, that's flowers. Like, you just sent a dozen roses if you send that, you know, and it's a lot cheaper and it's a lot easier and it's something that again, if you make a point of just, you don't even have to tell her that you put a reminder in your phone, but put something that just reminds yourself to just that little bit of connection because it's really easy for all of us to say, "All right, I've got that. Thank God, you know, I found my person. I can focus on these other million things now." But take the time, like, take the time to just keep that little bit of connection, that little bit of gratitude, that reminder that this is your person. Um, I think that's a giant piece. And then the last thing I would say is, um, you know, I think it's really important to be able to share with each other. Again, I like things that are a practice. So, I would say build into your week, you know, once a week just have like a walk and talk or send each other an email, whatever works for the two of you in your dynamic. What are three things I did this week that, you know, made you feel loved? What are three things I did this week that maybe I could have done better? What are... make it fun. What are three things I did this week that turned you on? Like, I have to tell you, you'll be shocked. You'll be shocked. They won't be the things you thought. Like, it won't be, oh, you had to have eight-pack abs. Like, it was something like, "Oh, when the dog was running around and you wiped his paws off in the mud, you looked so sweet that you were..." that turned you on? Like, what? I've been doing my obliques in the gym. Like, what was that? You know, and the truth is, like, never stop exploring that connection. I think that's so easy, so low percentage. It's free. That's why you don't hear about it because it's free. You don't have to buy anything. You don't have to get an app for it. Like, there's nothing you have to do except that little bit of connection. And I'm telling you, I think that keeps... that'll keep you connected to each other, keep you communicating with each other. If you add in that piece of what's something that I could have done better this week, then I think that starts to create a space where both of you feel like you can give each other pointers because I tell you, like, I'm 53 years old. I've been in therapy 20 years. I understand about 70% of this guy and I'm in here, you know, like, so to think another human being I'm going to be able to navigate them perfectly. Like, you're kidding yourself. That's insane to think. So I think there's real value in creating habits of connection and communication.
