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My dad's not a very feeling guy. He said to me the year before he passed, he said, "I'm worried about you. They're going to come for you." And it really shook me.
The number of times that's happened to me, as controversial as I am in the number of years I've been on, it's crazy. Good to see you, Rod.
How are you? How many minutes since the last time I saw you? Five minutes ago when I was on your podcast.
How many people do you think will watch both?
Oh, Bill, I have dozens and dozens of fans.
No. I got to tell you, my impression was like drunk already.
I'm going to loosen you up because we know you're a brilliant guy.
Oh, yeah. What do you drink?
I drink Maker's Mark and ginger ale because it makes my voice deeper the next day, which means I'm more authoritative.
You said that you don't teach anymore.
Well, I teach. I do an online class, but I haven't taught since COVID because, as we said, I got so upset.
Then how do you meet co-eds to cheat with?
Spit take. Put it in the spit take reel.
That wasn't even planned.
We have a real reel of spit takes. I have a healthy rule that anyone I work with or is in my class is off-limits. I just think that's a survival instinct.
What is not [__] your students or anyone you work with, Bill. I just think that's a good idea.
Generally speaking, it's a good idea.
It's a good idea. By the way, one in three... I never did it either.
One in three relationships begin at work in my companies. I've had 12 weddings. 99% of them are consensual. If you don't know how to navigate office politics to ask someone out for coffee and figure out if it's appropriate or not appropriate, you've got bigger problems. I'm actually... I think remote work has been terrible for young people and relationships.
I mean, you are associated among all America's intellectuals, and of course we're talking about a small group of people, but you are certainly among them. Nobody is thought of as more, I would say, a voice and authority on this kind of issue. I mean, as I always say, on my side they're much more credible voices on the other side. I don't know what the other side is, but I know that whenever you're on the show, I always do the same joke: Scott has been thinking a lot about little boys.
I thought you were going to talk about... I think young people should drink more.
No, no, but you talk a lot about lost boys and men, and it is true. I mean, there is a crisis of masculinity in this country. I don't know anybody who's limned it more than you or seems to really understand it more.
Well, imagine yourself. We just talked in the last show when you were on my pod about your profile at Cornell. Imagine if you had 24/7 life like porn, Netflix, thinking you could make money, right? Constant billion times a second AI trying to keep you glued to your phone. How do you think you would have dealt with that?
But since we're getting super real here. Yeah. Okay. Um, like the porn thing, I understand why porn is bad. I absolutely... I'm not blind to this at all. In fact, I said it long ago. I don't think a lot of people were saying it. I get it because I see it. I don't see like the bad stuff, but I see the ads, you know, that I could click on that.
It just looks... it's rapey. It's domineering. Um, I grew up on, you know, Playboy magazine when it was very tame. So that's not where I go. But just what's there, the porn, Scott, it's so good. And I don't see the problem why I'm supposed to hate it. I get it that it [__] up young boys. I'm not a young boy. And I can separate real sex from this sex. I'm not expecting real sex to be like this. They're two completely different categories. And I can make that distinction in my mind. I don't feel like it's a bad thing for me. I think it's just a different kind of pleasure.
Look, we talked about this before that the purists are kind of ruining everything. And what I would suggest is the following. And it's uncomfortable to say this as a guy my age. I consume porn. What I would tell young people is that you need to modulate it because I think we need to stop demonizing young men's horniness because wanting to have a relationship and wanting to have sex with someone... this does the following: it turns you into a better man.
You start thinking about dressing. You start thinking about kindness practice. You start having a rap. You try to make people laugh. You take risks. You learn how to endure rejection. And something I just [__] hate is the incel movement. Guess what? 99% of us from 99% of history have been involuntarily celibate. Welcome to the [__] work week. It is hard. No.
And the notion that you get some sort of credibility or hall pass and just back up and say, "Oh, it's women. Women are being unfair or unreasonable." Women have been unfair and unreasonable for thousands of years. And that's why every subsequent generation is taller and smarter. They're choosier than we are. And young men today...
Wait, wait. That's so interesting. Just say that again. I want to remember that. That's why we're taller and smarter because the chicks have been weeding out the losers.
For thousands of years, the... right? Isn't that what you're saying? The chocolate and peanut butter of evolutionary progress is men want to spread their seed to the four corners of the earth and women deploy a finer filter screen to pick the smartest, tallest, fastest, and strongest seed. And that's why our kids are smarter, faster, stronger than the generation before.
Then how do we explain Ryan Seacrest? No, it's a joke. I'm not... I like... I met him. He's a nice guy.
But if you think of... so only 40% of men have reproduced throughout history. 80% of women. In the West, it's 75% of men. So, men have more agency now than they've ever had. And also, the bar has never been lower. If you're a dude who's reasonably in shape, has a job, works out, puts yourself in the agency of strangers, you put yourself in the top 20% of men. And if you stay in the top 20% long enough, you are going to find yourself being voluntarily celibate, which is [__] awesome. I am so sick of young men complaining they don't have agency. They have more agency now than you or I had. They don't have the venues. They don't have as many places to meet. But the bar has never been lower in my...
You kidding? They have a [__] menu on their phone that's interminable. I had... who was in my homeroom class? That's what I had. They have thousands of choices. Am I wrong about that?
Well, okay. There's some nuance because unfortunately, while they have thousands of choices, 90% of those choices aren't interested in them. There is a winner-take-most environment online, as there has always been in human nature.
I agree. Look, look, the involuntarily celibate movement, the incel movement, is an excuse for guys like us where it was hard to give up. And the reality is I was involuntarily celibate for the first 19 years of my life.
No one would participate in my... could not agree more. We just didn't brag about it. We tried to keep it quiet because it was embarrassing. The last thing I wanted was to trumpet that I can't get laid. No. So you're so right. That's so... it just shows the vast difference in generations. That's their approach to not being able to get laid. Join a club. Join a club with other losers. I was trying to meet guys who could get laid and maybe I'd get a run-off. Yeah. Well, yes. Or you know something? Or I would just, you know, plot. I plotted like, how can I be attractive to a woman? Uh, you know, that's all gone when you take pride in this club you're in. And by the way, they've taken it to levels like, um, they think the government... some think the government should subsidize their inceldom by paying for prostitutes. That's been put forward as a real plan.
Yeah. I'm a big fan of paying for your own prostitutes. I think it's much better when you earn it. Anyways, but look, the whole point... typically the rewarding thing and the hard thing are the same thing. And establishing a romantic relationship that leads to a sexual relationship is really hard. And that's why it's so amazing when it happens.
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Yes, I've said this to women many times. You all think that all the other ones are complete [__] who are giving it up all the time. And I'm here to tell you they're not. Of course you want to think that because then it's like, "Oh, why? I can't find a guy. It's because these other ones are all giving it away." No, they're not. You're all basically wired the same. Yes, there are variations up to the point where, you know, trends happen to people. But generally women, I always say this, there's a reason why The Bachelor is still on. They still basically want the same thing, the majority of them, which is to find a real connection with someone of the opposite sex.
That's the default setting.
The part that's hard though is if you talk to couples who've been together more than 30 years, there's research here. 70 to 80% say one was more interested in the other. And it was always the man that was more interested. Guys want someone cute who's nice to get along with and who they find attractive, which is 70% of the women a young man meets. Women have much finer filters. But what happens is over time the man was able to demonstrate excellence. I liked how he treated his parents at church. He was funny. I liked the way he danced. He was great at work.
Considerate. He listened. He looked in my eyes.
The ultimate turn-on: he asked follow-up questions. Right.
Where do young men now demonstrate excellence? Remote work, remote school. 40% of the bars and pubs in London have closed. So to be fair, it is harder to demonstrate excellence for a man. There aren't as many on-ramps into the middle class, so they're not as economically viable. But the thing I said when I talk about programs to advocate for leveling up young people and young men, you know who wants more economically and emotionally viable men? Women. I mean, how many times have we heard, "I know all these great women," and they can't find a man. No, they can't find a man they want to date.
Exactly, Scott. We could make a lot of money with this. You know what? With your sort of professorial, great credentials and your esteem in this area. Oh yeah. I once did a really funny editorial at the end of the show. We did a fake TED talk where I taught men game, G-A-M-E, and went through all the things as basic as wear a collared shirt.
There are three... there's research here. The three things women find most attractive in terms of the mating market are: one, signaling resources, right? And we don't like to admit that, but the key word there is signal. If you don't order another bottle of alcohol at midnight and you go home because you got [__] the next day, you're signaling resources. Women like a guy who's in shape, not because they like big muscles, but it signals discipline and commitment, right? If you're just good at what you do, they think at some point you will have resources. Number two is intellect. And the fastest way to communicate intellect, and this is how you and I lost our virginity, is humor. This is my imitation of a woman or impression of a woman: I'm laughing, I'm laughing, I'm naked. If you can make a woman laugh, she will have coffee with you. I've always found that that was the only game I had was making women laugh. And the secret weapon, the AI-guided whatever the term is, missile that men don't appreciate is kindness.
All right, I agree with all that. But man, when you have to... Here we go. Here we go. When you have to have coffee first, you're kind of a [__]. Okay, that's what the kids do now. They don't drink. I know. They're [__]. I have never had coffee with a woman in my life except after we had sex. That's just... I'm not doing the coffee phase. I'm sorry. I'm not... I think a lot of kids... coffee is... it's not fun. It's just...
Something else I think you'll agree with. I think men should always pay for everything. I could not agree more and I always do. And by the way, you're talking about signaling. I swear to God, I've never done this because I was signaling. I only did this because I was a lucky person, worked for a generous network, and as I said on your other podcast, I have no expensive hobbies or tastes. So, I've accumulated enough money that I can tip really well, right? You know, and when girls see you tip with 50s and hundreds to doormen and valet and waitress, it's very impressive. And I'm not trying to be impressive. It just is because of exactly what you show: kindness. It shows a lot of... it's like a [__] man-tooth, you know, beating the other man-tooth. Is that an animal? A man-tooth.
Every mammal has a courtship process, whether it's birds throwing their feathers or kangaroos hopping around to demonstrate excellence. A woman's fertility window is about 25 years. A man's is 55 years. Her time is more valuable. Also, it's not paying for her, it's compensating because for her to walk in the door cost her 300 bucks between Sephora and waxing and the clothes she has to buy. In addition, the downside of sex, which most men are hoping is part of the dating process, is much greater for women than for men. Her time is more valuable. It cost her more to show up. I've said to my son, my 18-year-old son who's just started dating. He's like, "Dad, that's so Boomer." I'm like, "You pay for everything when you're in the company of a woman." And he's like, "That's so Boomer." I'm like, "Okay, just know this. I don't care what we're going to get [__] for this. I don't care what any woman says. Don't ever expect to kiss anyone who you let pay."
I could not agree more. And it should be that way. And I'll tell you why it should be that way. I'll tell you why that is actually intellectually defensible and appropriate. You should pay because there's much higher chance that the person in this relationship who's going to be a rat is the man. The person in this relationship who's going to be a scumbag, it could be the woman, but it's much more likely going to be the man. And that's why the men should pay. So, you're apologizing upfront.
I'm not apologizing. I'm just stating a fact. That is absolutely a fact. When they had Ashley Madison, the cheater website, it was like 12,000 women and 28 million men. And the 12,000 women were [__] trying to get... So, it was... please. And just, you know, men do worse things to women than women do to men in the aggregate. They just do.
So, more violent. I am not against the fact that men should pay. And again, it just is. It's human nature. Don't make a political mess out of everything. It just is. Get on with the next thing.
Yeah. And if a woman asks a man out and you want to pay, how about it? But I think generally speaking, it just makes sense to show some chivalry, demonstrate valor, and say, "I appreciate your time. I want to pay for this."
Yeah. You want to get laid or you don't. You know, I mean, make up your mind. Okay, that's it. I'm with you. So, but I'm telling you, we could make a lot of money like opening up a chain. I'm seeing a chain of how to get laid, like just seminars or something in the strip mall where you know, you and I, all we got to do is make one video which we show and then once a year we show up at all the local branches and we give a pep talk. And I'm telling you there is a need. And how do people make money? Scott, you know, you're an economic whiz. When they see a need in the market, what more need in the market is there for instructing men to actually get women because they don't really want to be...
Yeah. But this is part of the grift of the manosphere. But by the way, you say we should work together. If I had your hair, I'd be pulling number four for the Democratic nomination for president right now. Seriously, we don't need to make more money. We need to change the world.
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Do you really think that's true? They always said that a bald man couldn't be elected president. Adlai Stevenson did not do well. Dwight Eisenhower did not have a thick furry head of hair. He got...
I think Gavin Newsom is going to be our president. I think we're a looksist, sexist, racist country and I think the Democratic... the only thing I'm fairly confident about is that the Democratic nominee will be a straight white man over six feet tall.
Do you think in general the country is racist and sexist in 2026? That characterizes us in a general way.
Well, okay. I don't see any reason why Secretary Clinton lost to Donald Trump other than sexism. I think if she'd had a dick, she'd be our president.
I mean, I'm a fan. You know, I always thought Hillary would be good. She's one of the most sort of common-sensical people I've ever seen in politics.
Confident, smart, centrist.
Smart. Yes. Centrist. Um, yeah. Um, but I also see why she lost, why she rubs people the wrong way. If she had... I'll give you an example. Um, because I remember covering it. She went into coal country. And she made a statement that was exactly what, if you're a rational person, you would want someone to say about this issue, which is, "You coal miners, you know, you've done this country an incredible service. We needed coal to make our country grow and run and blah blah blah, heat our homes, but you know, we found out it's bad for the environment and now we want to move on and we want to do that and also help you, whatever it is." They took out like the one part that made it sound like she was throwing them under the bus, which she wasn't. Who wants to be a [__] coal miner? First of all, the worst job in the world we're trying to save. Why? Because you're not getting enough black lung. So instead of going back there and saying, "Yeah, I said it and I meant it and you [__] who are trying to twist it, that's not what I'm saying and stop," she just backtracked and did what Democrats always do and pussied out and said whatever she said. It was like, you lost already. Trump says a thousand things that are worse, but he never apologizes for any of them.
Just doubles down. But I would argue that's one of the terrible things about... Yeah, it's terrible. All right. So, I mean, the idea that you can't learn from a mistake and evolve and say, "I was wrong," being disqualifying. Also, I do think that Fox turns its sights on whoever they think is going to be the Democratic nominee and devote 24/7 to just shit-posting that person. I think they're doing it to Gavin now. They're starting to turn their sights on Ocasio because they see he might be a threat.
But this has always been thus. This is not new that the Republican machine and on the other side the Dem... I mean, that's what the game is, you know. I mean, they create ads that will make you hate the other person. If you ask me what I think the bottom line problem is, it's hate. There's just... everyone is just so hateful of the other side. Yeah. You can't... I know this as a stand-up that if you make the crowd hate you, you can say the funniest thing in the world, they will not laugh. Yeah. And it's the same, I think, in politics. If they hate you, you could have the greatest plan, the greatest idea, the thing that's actually going to make lives better. Doesn't matter. I hate you. I hate you. And so I'm going to oppose that and try to sink it and kill it and kill you. That's where we're at. That's what we have to try to step back from. But I don't know how you step back from that. There's also the problem like in the Middle East. It's like, how do you get people who have been killing each other for 75 years to...
Yeah, I think that... I like, we're gonna need a bigger boat. But I don't think people realize how much we've been manipulated by the social media algorithms that immediately want to identify us as far left, far right, and want to tickle our sensors by convincing us, right? Our enemy isn't Russian soldiers pouring over the border in Ukraine. It's your neighbor who has the wrong political sign in his front yard, right? And it's coarsening our discourse. It's treating us... I have some friends who supported a mayoral candidate here that I was critical of. I was critical of all of them. And he was very upset with me. And I said, "Boss, you got to separate your friends from your politics. Otherwise, you're going to lose 50% of your friends." And going back to dating, do you remember the political leanings of anyone you dated in your 20s and 30s? We didn't talk about it. It's yet another reason why young people aren't hooking up. You're right.
I mean, it just didn't matter. It wasn't our identity. Now it's become your politics or your identity. And if I disagree with your politics, then you're not wrong. You are wrong. I may be paraphrasing what you've said. But all of a sudden, it's like we can't get along because your identity is your politics. I don't like your identity.
Oh, no. I say it all the time and you're so right. I don't remember what anybody's politics were. And this is especially virulent now because the politics of young men versus young women is so different. It's highly likely that the woman... and by the way, they're both ill-informed. Right. Okay. So I'm not being sexist. Nobody knows anything. I think men generally take a slightly bigger interest in politics, but they're morons too. So, like the woman is just going to be like, the Republicans are... it's like saying Hitler, you know, and trust me, I've had people compare me. Uh, so they're like unthinkable. So, if the guy voted for Trump, it's just... that's just not even... It's like he's a Nazi. It's a deal-killer. It's like he's a cannibal. It just... and you know, the guys, of course, being guys, are much less concerned about something like politics getting in the way of [__]. Mhm. Like I was like that when I was young. No, I would have changed my political party if I thought it would have got me. I would have said if she could say I'm a Nazi. I had a Mondale poster in my fraternity room. It still didn't work. Yeah.
Look, but actually young men have changed less politically than women. Women have gotten more progressive. I think a lot of it's because they see an attack on their bodily autonomy, which I think is justified. And I think there's a trope or a myth of young men being these knuckle-dragging MAGA. Most young men believe in bodily autonomy. Most young men believe in equal rights. I think the manosphere gives the general media and the public a false impression.
Yeah, I would agree with that. I think that's true. Yeah. And some of them are far left. Oh yeah. I mean, that's... I mean, there's lots of young men who are wearing kaffiyehs on campus and there's that too. Yeah. By the way, they sometimes are both so dumb that they agree. Like Hasan Piker, you know, he likes Stalin and so does Nick Fuentes.
Well, that's... but you said this. I think the biggest threat to America is not climate change. I don't even think it's income inequality, although that's right up there. I think it's extremism and I think the algorithms are saying there's no room in the middle. No one understands you. Everyone will hate you. So pick your team and you've got to go dark red or you've got to go incandescent blue. And what's weird is when you know something is a really bad idea is when these two come together. They come together on anti-Semitism. They come together on isolationism.
Uh, this Scholier who's going to be a congressman, she's about to be the biggest star the Republican party has ever found. They're going to run her ads over and over. She's against race mixing, which puts her right with, you know... I hadn't heard that one. Oh, yeah. She's against race mixing. She doesn't like it when men of color get with privileged white girls, right? So, not race mixing. That's... That's funny. That's my favorite porn. See, you said you do. That's my favorite genre.
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You said you do.
Uh, I've tried to modulate it because I think young men...
So how do you... I heard my justification. I don't think it interferes with a regular sex life. It's super good now. I mean, I remember when it was really not that good and it was on VHS. It's pretty good now. So the fact that there's like... And by the way, I've said this on my show, it's sad to me. It says a lot about the educational system that I can endlessly scroll through like Pornhub. Here's the videos that are available and it looks like every single girl in this country who didn't go to college is sucking dick for a living. It's not OnlyFans. This is not OnlyFans. I mean, there's that too. I've never been on OnlyFans. Yeah. Either. Right. This is just Pornhub. If you... you can scroll endlessly and there's an endless amount of women who are, you know, 18 to 30 or what have you, 35. And how many women are doing it? When I first watched porn, there was like six porn actresses.
Well, there's some scary stats. In certain areas, lower-income cities, one out of three women under the age of 30 who would objectively identify as in the top quartile of being attractive are on OnlyFans. Basically, OnlyFans is a transfer of wealth from lonely men to women who don't have a lot of economic options.
I call it the masturbation economy. This economy runs on masturbation. Also, there's a huge semi-pro economy, and that is women with real jobs, women who are living in cities where they can't afford to live because inflation is so out of control, and they have a dude in their life, usually an older man, who...
might be paying their rent, and it's become normalized. So, the economics drive everything. But back to porn, what I would tell young guys, it's really difficult to tell a young guy not to engage in porn. I don't know if that's realistic. What I would say is modulate it, because being horny, having the mojo to endure rejection is one of the keys to meeting somebody. It is hard to approach a stranger and develop those calluses. And the reason I went on campus every day,
calluses, I get it. But the reason I went — I went to college is a mile from here. The reason I went on campus at UCLA was because I was hoping, in the back of my mind, I wanted to see my friends. And I thought there's a decent chance, a small chance, but a decent chance I'll meet someone, invite her on a date, and maybe someday have a relationship and sex. And that motivated me to go on campus.
So, you quizzed me on your podcast.
At the same time, I think if you're in a relationship, you need to modulate your consumption of porn because I think expressing desire, affection, and sexual desire to your partner is key to a healthy relationship. And if you're on porn too much, that mojo and that desire starts to diminish.
Just don't jerk off days you're going to get laid.
You know, see, this is why we need to work together.
You say it like the professor and then the monkey.
You keep it real. [laughter] There you go.
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By the way, the manosphere has been selling this, saying this is how you become a man. Unfortunately, it comes off the rails and they start talking about dominance and a Lamborghini and being just a creep.
Who — who says this? Who's talking about...
Oh my god, the manosphere. Everyone from...
Oh, like Andrew Tate and — Oh, I know. I saw the documentary on it.
What'd you think of that? Who did it? Some...
Justin — uh, um, not Justin Theroux. Uh, Justin Theroux's cousin. Justin's a friend of mine.
Yeah, you're right. Louis Theroux.
Louis Theroux.
Okay. Okay, it was a good documentary, but — and no knock on Louis Theroux, but you know, um, he goes around talking to these, you know, really sculpted, beautiful-looking, uh, manosphere guys, and they're all, but I can see why the chicks are them and not Louis Theroux. It's all I can think going throughout the whole...
You watch the whole thing and think, 'This makes sense.' [laughter]
They go too far. But it's like, if I was a chick, come on, we are animals. It would be that douchebag and not...
I think a lot of women would like a filmmaker who, like Louis Theroux, actually...
Really? I guess we know different...
The problem — the only — the only thing I thought was a little bit off about that, and I thought it was really well done, was that the manosphere — there are actually some positive attributes of it. It says start, take care of yourself, be fit, be action-oriented, approach women, try and get an economic plan. It starts off fine. The problem is it then goes to dominance and weirdness...
...and choking and like all this...
...and women as property. It becomes really unhealthy.
It's — you know what it sounds like?
And most of it's a grift.
Yeah. And you know what it does sound like? The Taliban.
That's what it sounds like.
You think that's the ultimate manosphere?
Well, isn't Andrew Tate Muslim?
Yeah. I mean, I'm just saying...
I don't think you can blame Islam for Andrew Tate. I don't think we can blame them. I think that's more capitalism.
I don't think you can blame them. But that the ideas about women...
...try to deny that they don't fit. They fit in some ways.
Look, I — I — I'm not — I — I admire what you've talked about in terms of the left has no — has lacks a lot of credibility when they refuse to talk about the gender apartheid that is rampant in many of these nations that are — that are theocracies. I think that's absolutely true. I think the manosphere is a function of lonely young men looking for an answer, looking for someone to say, 'I see you.' And then the profit incentive and the ability to go online and say these incendiary things and say, 'Blame women for their romantic problems. Blame immigrants for their economic problems. And you'll solve all of these problems if you just sign up for my cheap one-day-only $9.95 crypto university on how to trade Bitcoin, right? And if you just listen to me, you're going to get laid and you're going to have a Lamborghini.' It's basically a grift. It's economic. I would argue it's more capitalist than any religion, but it's — it's, um...
...but it's similar to why — how religion works and why it works. You know, people are living lives of quiet desperation in every generation, in every possible way.
They're susceptible to solutions.
Yeah.
Very susceptible. We — I mean, I guess we've all done it. You can — you think of an example in your — when you were young and dumb that you fell for something?
Oh gosh, what didn't I fall for?
Well, see, what I admire — quite frankly, I would have liked to have done what you did. I wish I had the confidence to do what you did. I thought that being an investment banker would impress strange women and my mom. So, I got a job in investment banking. I didn't even know what it was, but I thought that society would find me impressive if I got a job working at Morgan Stanley. And I quickly figured out I was terrible at it and they didn't like me and I didn't like them. And so I went back to business school. Had I had more confidence at UCLA, I would have gone into the entertainment industry. But the thing that freaked me out about the entertainment industry — I was at ZBT, like, you know, a ton of people went into the entertainment industry. And when they would come back and I would see their success, it was entirely uncorrelated to their talent. And that is — and most of them were behind the camera, agents, writers, but at least for the 10 years, the people who I would have guessed would have been successful weren't always. And some other people hit it so big, so fast, and I'm like, 'That guy.' Whereas in something like investment banking, I knew if I thought if I work hard enough and I'm fairly smart, eventually I'll make money. I mean, what you're saying about show business is true. Anybody can hit it.
Staying power on the top level.
It's generally not — it's mostly the cream does rise to the top. But yes, there is a lot of in the middle and anyone — anyone...
...if you really insist on being in show business...
...it will find a place for you. You know, you — you may lose your dignity and you're naked and afraid or you're — I don't know, on some reality show or whatever you're doing, but you know, you can get in front of a camera.
I think — I think it's increasing. My understanding is only 23% — uh, I'm — excuse me, 83% of SAG-AFTRA union members didn't qualify for health insurance because they made less than $23,000. Of course, my understanding is as the industry contracts and it's more about creators — maybe we're — I'm not — I'm defining the industry too narrowly, but I've said this for a long time: economic prosperity is inversely related to how sexy an industry is.
Well, and show business — those are the worst odds in the world. Yeah.
My example is always look at any movie.
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Go back 10 years to any time and look at the credits at the end of the movie and you'll recognize the first three names and then there's 25 other names who were in that movie from 1985 and they all thought they were going to have a career and be stars and none of them — you have no idea who they are. They just — they got in a movie, it didn't go anywhere. They — that's the percentage of people for whom this business is good for...
...is very low. But of course, they see all this. Who do they read about in the tabloids and see on TV? It's the people who are, you know, it's Rihanna going to Ibiza again tonight and with an entourage and people taking pictures and, you know, that's what you know. And boy, you know, this country — it does adore fame. It just — it's the old, you know, thing that Warhol said about everybody will be famous for 15 minutes. That was one of the more prescient things anybody ever said because with social media...
...yeah...
...you know, anybody can have some level of followers. It's not like there's this stark demarcation between the famous and the not famous. It's like this just crazy amounts of people have some level of fame. If you have a million followers, I mean, that's somewhat famous. It's one reason why we have so much trouble with community because we don't all follow the same people. We — I don't know who the — the people who are 22, who they're getting their news from. It's probably not me.
Yeah. The long tail is pretty — pretty long. My — I mean, it's interesting in surveys, young people would rather be — if given the choice of being famous and rich, now a decent number, even sometimes the majority of young people would rather be famous.
Yes. And my father said something to me right before he passed. By the way, I think the reason I'm so nervous when I go on your show — I'm very nervous — is I think my dad's watching. My dad will only watch two things. He watched the Toronto Maple Leafs and he watched your show. So whenever I go on your show, I think my dad's watching me.
Anyways, but he said to me the year before he passed, he said, 'I'm worried about you.' And my dad's not a very feeling guy.
And I'm like, 'What's up?' And he said, 'The key to happiness in America is to be rich and anonymous. And you're losing your anonymity.' And it's a threat. They're gonna come for you. And it really shook me because I think that I've gotten caught up in a little bit of fame and I have just the right amount of fame. People are nice to me. People recognize me.
And the thing I can't get over and the reason why I would...
...I would say the same about me.
The reason I would really like mandatory national service is I can't get over how awful people are online. And I equally am in just as much disbelief around how lovely they are in person. People say the nicest things, introduce you to their kids, want a picture...
...and it's not like when you walk into a room, there aren't people in that room, at least in my case, probably yours, who don't like you. They just don't come up to you.
Yeah. They keep it to themselves.
They keep it to themselves.
The number of times that's happened to me, as controversial as I am and the number of years I've been on, it's crazy how few times that's ever happened. Like less than two hands' worth.
You're right. The people who come up to you are the people who like you. And for me, I mean, this was — my Mark Twain speech was all about the fans. It's like, you know, I never had the media. I never had the show business establishment. What I had was the fans.
They got me. And the things they say to me are like, 'Oh, okay.' That told me, 'Yes, people are understanding what I'm doing here, not the media.'
We're on — I'm curious if you get this because I don't have nearly the footprint you have, but we're both sort of similar on the political spectrum. And that is, I think of myself as a raging moderate and now in 0 to 100, I like to think I'm at 50. And do you get this? I get constantly people come up to me and say, 'While I don't always agree with everything you say...
...I appreciate you make me think.'
And I'm like, I don't always agree with what I say. 10 minutes after I say some, I go, 'God, that was stupid. What was I thinking?' Um, yeah, people really do appreciate the person who is willing to be in the middle and willing to adjudicate every issue that comes along by the issue. I always say this to the younger people who are like, 'Get off the lawn' person and 'you're boomers' — like, that's not an argument.
That's actually a prejudice.
That's a prejudice. That's not an argument. Engage with the idea. Is the idea of what I'm saying wrong? If it is, tell me why. We can have that discussion. But don't just say you can't talk because you're old. Or yeah, imagine if it's, 'Oh, you can't talk because you're black or a woman or gay.' It's ridiculous. I...
But the place we differ a little bit. I'm an ageist. Um, and I think also biology is ageist. And I think a lot of the world's problems can be reverse-engineered to a system that rewards incumbency. And we end up with people with their finger on the button who are in a hospital somewhere and clearly can't speak or operate and that people just won't leave the stage.
Yeah. But the — the price of that is that you throw out with the bathwater people who are absolutely smarter and better because they still have their marbles and they've seen it all. There's no substitute for having seen things before. You see patterns. That's — that's why being older is the great saving grace: wisdom. And wisdom just comes down to that. 'Oh yeah, I saw that when I was 22 and it me hard. I saw it again when I was 30. I still quite hadn't got it through my head. Oh, but now I'm 40. Mm-mm. You're not going to fool me on that again.' And that in...
...as a president is a great quality.
Okay. A 65-year-old has seen enough and seen a lot. An 80-year-old needs to see their grandkids more and have their driver's license taken from them.
Obama — he's probably 66 now, 65.
Okay. So, and he's certainly got all his marbles. Um, my favorite president really in a long — like, I don't know, Lincoln or somebody who did some great...
Um, I thought he was a true centrist. You know, I thought the biggest mistake the Republicans ever made was trying to, you know, portray him as a leftist because he wasn't. And it just made you look like racists, which some of you are. Okay? So, say he's 10 years from now and he's no different because he's not obese.
He's not going to be the same person in 10 years. Bill, our brain shrinks 1% a year from 45.
You know what? It's okay. Maybe some people had so much extra. So, so I'm 70. You're saying in — in 5 years I'm done. I'm cooked. I'm done.
No, you're not done. But you — I don't think you should be able to run for president.
I'm not going to. So you don't have to worry about it.
I — I think if — if people want to tune in for a show and listen to you and redefine — but if you can't be a pilot at 65...
Let me ask you this. If...
...we're going by what the FAA...
If every world leader over the age of 75 decided to leave the stage, would the world be a better or worse place?
I don't know. It's a case-by-case basis. I am a believer in the individual. I think it's a terrible idea to tell people at a certain specific age — an arbitrary age — that they are unqualified. They may very well be the most qualified.
Should we have tests? Should we have cognitive tests, physical tests?
Should Mitch McConnell be able to hide away?
Should Senator Feinstein have stuck around and women? Should Ruth Bader Ginsburg? You got your answer. Tests. There's the — there's the right compromise. Yes. Tests. If — if they don't pass the test, if you take the test and you can't put the square peg in the square hole, great. We'll throw you out.
I mean, this is the problem. This is where democracy is working too well because old people vote and they keep voting more old people into office who keep voting themselves more money. Young people don't vote. The average age of an American is 38. The average age of an elected representative in Congress is 62. They don't understand new technologies as well. They don't bring the creativity and dynamism. And quite frankly, I'm not sure they're as worried about the debt as a young person is. And also, can they really relate to the struggles of a single mother in her 20s? Our electorate is a cross between the land of the dead and the Golden Girls. It is way too goddamn old. And...
...yeah, I mean, that's true, too. I mean, you know, um, do I pine for Steny Hoyer to stay on the job forever? No.
I mean, it's Charles Grassley. What is he, 94?
Yeah, Charles Grassley. I mean, but again, these are not people to mourn. But that's not the example that I thought was pertinent, which would be Obama.
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Say in 10 years. Yeah.
Um, we've changed the law because we seem to be moving in that direction and Trump changes it. He — he says, 'Okay, third term,' and the Republicans, because they go along with anything no matter how unconstitutional...
...okay, so you can have a third term.
So this takes 10 years to work through and there we are in 10 years, Obama's 75 and he is offered the — you know, he — he can now run as the Democratic candidate. Um, given the test, if I heard him speak, if he sounded like the old Obama...
Okay. So, should we lower the age limit? You have to be 35. Why have we decided a 34-year-old can't run for president, but an 80-year-old can?
Scott, are 34-year-olds idiots?
No, they don't have — it doesn't have to be 34. That's true. But I mean, you know, considering they did that in an age when you lived to be 38?
I think it was a pretty ballsy thing to do. And I think it was — it spoke of their common-sense wisdom that it takes a minute...
...to mature, especially since it was only men running.
Yeah. But does it take centuries?
You know, you know what I think actually would be appropriate? Women can run at 25 because they do mature faster and men should wait till 35. I really believe that's true.
That's an interesting thought. I mean, it'd be hard to pass the legislature, but I do think that that reflects...
...actually, men — supposedly men's prefrontal cortex catches up at 25, but basically a senior in high school, a senior girl who's applying to college against a senior boy is competing against a 10th-grade girl.
I'm an expert on women in their 20s. You may know the book 'Learning Scott,' but I'm telling you, I know this. And like women, they go through a certain period of like wildness and experimentation. And it's usually the college years, right? By the time they're 25, they're over it. They're not like guys. They don't want to have wild ways. You know, it's like girls just — girls just want to have fun. And you know...
Where you really see it, Bill, and you don't see this because you don't have kids. My 15-year-old will have his class over. The boys are dopes. They're — they're fine, but they're dopes. They don't look you in the eye. They're just kind of there. There are some 15-year-old girls in my — my son's class that could be the junior senator from Pennsylvania. 'How are you, Mr. Galloway?' First off, they look 15 going on 30. They're incredibly mature, incredibly articulate. The weird thing actually, they don't know if it's pesticides or hormones, but the gap in maturity between boys and girls is actually broadening. Boys' testicles are descending later. Girls are menstruating earlier. The — the — the maturity gap is actually widening. Anyways, I — I don't mean I'm an ageist. I think on balance, if we're going to test doctors, if we're going to test pilots, let's test our politicians.
So, I told you my — you asked me what — what... So, you're married?
The same woman your whole life?
Uh, not my whole life, but we've been together 22 years.
When I was very young. Yeah.
I see. So, this is the second marriage.
So, we're going back to the beginning of the century.
