I've spent three decades reverse engineering the human mind to show you how you can use it to know what somebody's thinking when they meet you, or if somebody was telling you the truth or lying. So, let's do something fun. Imagine that in front of you was an invisible deck of cards. Spread them out in front of you. And I want you to reach down and imagine you just grab a card at random. Now, look at it. Look at me.
Okay, close your eyes. Hold your hand out, please. Now, before you open your eyes and tell us what was that card, three of diamonds. Open your eyes. Take a look.
[Music] And it's not magic. I can't teach you this. And these secrets, these habits, they're applicable all throughout life. Trust me, you don't want to miss the rest of this.
Oz Pearlman walked away from Wall Street to become the world's leading mentalist, unlocking the skills we need to read people, win trust, spot a liar, and influence anyone.
My whole job is to make you believe that I can read minds. But here is the honest truth. That's impossible. But I read people through small, minute details. For example, we're hardwired from thousands of years that if I approach you directly with two eyes, it can create fear versus if I turn ever so slightly and approach you with one eye. That one eye is less danger. So, it's all about the smallest little nuances.
Like, think of someone, think of their first name. I got it. Five letters, isn't it? Tell us all what is their first name. Jules. So, this is a huge tactical advantage when you ask your boss for a raise or when you ask someone out on a date. And I'll explain to you what to do as well as how you form habits, eliminating that fear of rejection, and also the fast track for confidence. But the next thing is how to improve your memory, which is a huge secret to success. And I have a tip. I've repurposed the instructions on a shampoo bottle. And the first step is what 95% of us do wrong.
So, I see messages all the time in the comments section that some of you didn't realize you didn't subscribe. So, if you could do me a favor and double check if you're a subscriber to this channel, that would be tremendously appreciated. It's the simple, it's the free thing that anybody that watches this show frequently can do to help us here to keep everything going in this show in the trajectory it's on. So, please do double check if you've subscribed and thank you so much because in a strange way you are part of our history and you're on this journey with us and I appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank you.
Oz Pearlman, you're a guy who can apparently read people's minds. In fact, the book you've just written is called Read People: Proven Habits for Success from the World's Greatest Mentalist. So, for anyone that isn't familiar with your work and what you do, why did you name your book Read People? And can you read my mind?
So, therein lies the dilemma. My whole job is to make you believe that I can read minds. But here is the honest truth. I can't read minds. I wish I could read minds. That's impossible. I read people. Very different skill. This is built on the world of magic. What I do: misdirection, influence, suggestion. Knowing how people think indicates to me what they think. Right? I've spent three decades reverse engineering the human mind. I'm teaching you habits for success because the skills that I have at reading people effectively, walking into a room, taking charge, influencing them. All of the things surrounding the entertainment portion are things that apply to everyone. If you can use these secrets, these habits, they're going to lead you to success in your personal life, in your professional life, in your relationships. And that's what I've done. I think that if I had done this same playbook and not been a mentalist, I'd be successful at any field. They're applicable all throughout life.
You know, I'm pausing for one second because someone listening to this right now, I'm always thinking about the person there watching us. And why should they be watching me right now? That's my question. Who cares about me? I don't know me. They don't know me. Why should they watch this? I've studied you. That's what I do for a living. And I have something for you. And on Dragon's Den, I love when you make an offer. I love the visual of the moment where you can change someone's life, right? A founder, you evaluate their company. You make them an offer. So, this is an offer, but it's not for now. You have to stick around till the end. If you open it now, it will be meaningless. At the end of this podcast, you're going to open this piece of paper, and I think it's going to be something you will talk about for years to come.
You know what? Put it somewhere, maybe right under your mug where it never leaves our sight, and we're going to come back to this later.
I'm going to put... You know what this is? It's your future.
Don't open. You don't want to know your future yet.
And why should they stick around and listen?
Oh, because trust me, you don't want to miss the rest of this. Otherwise, you'll have to see the highlights.
Put it somewhere we see it the whole time.
Okay. So, I'll put it here or under your mug or anywhere we never lose sight of it.
Wonderful. I'll put my mug on top of it for anyone that can't see because there will be some people listening on audio. He's just passed me a white piece of folded up card and I've put it underneath my mug.
It's an offer. You can't refuse. Listen guys, we're not colluding.
So, because I remember watching the Joe Rogan episode and wondering whether you and Joe Rogan had colluded to do that because it blew my mind. So, my objective today is to be completely honest with my audience. And also, if I see you do something, do you want me to say it?
Okay. Do you actually want me to say it?
I mean, I guess so while I'm here.
Okay, fine. Okay. I mean, they trust you. Why do people listen to you? Great interview questions, but they trust you. That's how you build an audience. Yeah, I'd feel bad if I duped them. And what is it that you think you know that the average person doesn't know about the human condition?
I know how people think. So, I think what I learned at a certain point were skills that are for success in life. Let me explain to you. The fear of rejection is something that I think is the number one factor between failure and success is the fear. Most people don't try to achieve their goals because they're fearful of what will happen if they fail or they set themselves up for failure instead of for success. What do I mean by that? When I was 14, I'd walk up to a restaurant. I talked my way into getting a restaurant gig because I've been doing magic tricks since I was 13. And I started learning by iterating what makes people when I walk up to them comfortable with me, what makes them uncomfortable. I started learning how people think. And it's down to the smallest little nuances.
I learned that if I approach you directly, the same way that animals fear you when they see two eyes versus if I turn ever so slightly and approach your table at an angle, you only see one eye. We're hardwired from thousands and thousands of years of avoiding predators. That one eye is less danger. Animals aren't as fearful of you. So I walk up to you, I create time limits. I learned quickly that if I walk up, the first thing someone thinks is, 'Oh my god, is he going to be here long?' The next thing is, 'Do they even know this kid's working here? Is he any good at this? Oh god, I need money. Do I have to tip him? I didn't bring cash.' All of these thoughts that go through your minds. They're known as heuristics. It's how we deal with our life every day. And if you can know what somebody's thinking, not to perform a mentalist trick, but know what they're thinking when they meet you or when you ask your boss for a raise or when you ask a girl or a guy out on a date, knowing that is a huge tactical advantage.
And specifically, how would you do that? What would you say?
What I would say is, in my mind as a mentalist, what I do most is prepare. I prepare in advance for what will work, what won't work, and all the troubleshoots in between. Plan A, B, C, D, all the way to Z. So in that situation, every time I learned something new, I learned quickly that people didn't know if I was working at the restaurant. Am I just some kid who walked up to you? Well, who is this? So I walk at an angle so they know I might be leaving soon. I'm one foot in, I'm one foot out. I would then say to you, did you hear what's going on tonight? It's your lucky day. Right away, that's a different thing. That's a dopamine hit. That's the same way when your phone buzzes. That's why we're hooked. Who texted me? What does this say? Is this a like? Is this a comment? That's that lottery. By me saying to you a question that denotes positive energy without a yes or no, you don't have a way to stop me. If I said, 'Hey, do you want to see me do magic?' No. Get out of here. Boom. We're done. Asking people questions that are open-ended, that are inherently positive, almost always generates a great response. Did you hear why it's your lucky night? Oh, why is it my lucky night? And I say, 'The owner brought me in as a special treat to do something amazing for you.' So now listen to this. The owner, they know I'm working there. The owner brought me in. I know the owner. Social value, social currency, as a special treat. That means you don't need to pay me money. They've paid the bill. Amazing. And then to show you something amazing. So I've given you no point at which to say no. I've given you very few angles to think anything but positive. And I've done this all in hopefully less than 10 seconds. That's the intro. Now, you better have your A-game. I better have a trick that's going to blow them away and capture their attention.
So, let's just pause there for a second because I think everybody, whether you're a content creator or you're working in sales or you're interviewing people to join your company, what I heard there was you created this like positive curiosity gap.
Where immediately, and that's also what MrBeast does at the start of his videos. He hooks instantly.
I think it's like a positive curiosity gap where you need that gap closed. And you said in that case, 'They brought me in. Have you heard what's happening tonight? It's amazing. You've brought me in as a treat to do something amazing.' Immediately I need to know what this is. What is this? And I don't want you to leave. And then you'd blow them away somehow.
I'd blow them away. But the lessons to be learned from there are things that I've used for the rest of my life. And they apply so much to today's day and age where what is the currency of our time? Attention. This very moment that someone's listening and watching can allow you to blow up a business. We have never been in an era where having a phone can allow you to become a global superstar, to launch a business. It's like 100 years ago this didn't exist, this option. So knowing how to connect with people on an emotional level and then knowing what does your audience want. That's what I learned early on. I'm just knowing how people think and using that to entertain them.
And how much of it is based on my body language? How much of it is based on how I behave? And I say that because the audience, you know, they're all professionals working in their careers and they're very keen to better understand people through observation. Whether it's their team members or whether it's clients or whoever it might be. So, I'm wondering if there's anything I can learn to be a better observer of the people in my life.
Absolutely. So, for my performances, let's break this down. I'm an entertainer. That's what I do for a living. And now, after many years, people ask me, 'How do you do it? How do you do it?' I've realized you don't want to know how I do it. You don't really. If I were to guess, let's do something fun. You have a deck of cards.
Let's just sweeten the deal. These are your cards, correct? I've not touched these. There's no magic trick involved. These are all cards.
Here's what I'd like to try for you. Put them down in front of you, please. You've mixed them up. Do you want to mix them some more?
Please mix them as much as you'd like.
Just say that because I just saw...
No, don't say a word. Okay, there you go. The moment I touch those cards, my brain flips a switch and goes, 'This is a magic trick. That's what I know. Oh, I know that archetype. I'm not touching those cards. I couldn't care less about those cards.' Imagine that in front of you instead was an invisible pack of cards. Stephen, this is where I changed gears where years ago I spent hours and hours learning sleight of hand. Pick up the invisible deck, please. Just pretend. Just like that. And I want you to spread them out in front of you face down. You can't see them. And Stephen, you close your eyes. You reach down. And here's the part where we can't collude because they're invisible and you don't know what you're about to do, much less me. And I want you to reach down and imagine you just grab a card at random, face down. Do it for me now, please. And stop right there. Freeze. Have I told you what to do at this moment? Have I said anything? Is there any way that you could know what card you just picked in your hand or I could know or any of this?
No. This is spontaneous, impulsive, and in the moment. It's the gold standard for what I do. Don't say a word. Look at it. Look at me. Just think. The cards are red. They're black. There's the hearts, the diamonds, the clubs, and the spades. There's the number cards. There's the big cards. Ace, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, Jack, Queen, King. Close your eyes. That's it. I'm going to take these cards that are next to you. Oop, sorry. And I'd like you to keep your eyes closed if you don't mind. And this is not a card trick, but I want a visual for your audience. Hold your hand out, please. And hold it as if you were holding one card in your hand. Keep your eyes closed. Do not open them. I'm going to place one card in your hand. Close your fingers and freeze right there. Before you open your eyes, tell us what was that card.
Open your eyes. Take a look.
It is very, very difficult for me to understand how you do that.
Now, here's the question. So, I tell you this. If I were to teach you that you could do it, it would take you quite some time and you'll learn. And it was a narrowing down of a lot of options into one, which is a lot of what I do. I limit your options and I read what you are giving off because there's no magic trick. There's no sleight of hand involved in this. Are we in agreement? This is an invisible deck. You took out a card. Let's put these away. But here's where I would say what's applicable is knowing how to read people more effectively in your life. Not for the sake of a trick, but knowing what they're actually thinking.
Now, if you're watching this and you said you're a business person, you want a tangible takeaway for body language. You ask yourself, was there a body language thing? Was there something that you did specifically? Was there a flex of an arm? Was there a twinge of an eyebrow? Was there something that you can see?
There are definitely markers. But what I would describe to people is for a lot of people, they want to know a core thing. Is someone interested? Yes or no? And is someone lying? Yes or no? If you could know those two things, I think that opens up a world of possibilities. How many major moments of your life had to do with if somebody liked or was interested in what you were doing, be it in sales or business or personal, or if somebody was telling you the truth or lying? The best way to learn if somebody's lying to you is learning their benchmarks. Let me explain to you what that means. Meeting somebody one time, it's very hard to know things about them. One-time transactions, you can't really gauge who they are as a person. But how many people in your life do you meet once? Few. Most of the people you meet, you meet often. So a lie detector machine, have you ever been lie detector machined?
So the way they work is they have to ask you questions beforehand to set your benchmarks. They have to check and they see, 'Tell me an honest answer. Is your name Steven Bartlett?' Yes. They look at your indicators to see what honesty looks like. And then they look to see, 'Tell me a lie.' And now they try to compare the two to each other. So, what I do when I watch people and observe is I try to see what do they look like when they're telling me the truth. And these are fun things you could try at home. See when somebody tells you a story, how many details do they insert? What's their cadence, right? How do they speak? You can tell when people are lying more often than not if you observe them often. You can see it. Do they add more details? So you can try to find fun ways that seem to be white lies to see what do they do when they lie versus what do they do when they tell the truth and then start to trust your instincts more.
I think a lot of things that I do, I've unlearned bad habits. I think that when we were growing up most of us had much better BS detection systems. When you're 2, 3, 4, you know if your sibling's lying to you. You know if people are lying to you very well. You're kind of very young and there's an instinct involved that I think is akin to when I play ping pong. I can't think about my shot. I just do the shot. I don't know how I did it. My body just goes into motion. So when I'm performing, I am... the way people always ask me, 'Are you doing this in every moment of your life?' No. It's tiring. I'm focused, hyper-focused on what you're doing and the things that I'm watching that will give away certain elements. And I'm influencing you. There's misdirection and I'm guiding you in a certain position, in a certain way to what I want you to select.
Say I was trying to sell you something. Sure. We're doing a presentation. I'm a marketing agency owner and I would like you to buy this marketing campaign from me instead of this one or no campaign. Sure. So, what are some things you could tell me that I should be thinking about or doing if I'm selling to you to make you buy what I would like you to buy?
Number one rule, I call this channeling your inner mentalist. It's not about you. It's always about them. That's been the number one secret to my success. I shouldn't have been... I've been on all different networks doing what I do. On CNBC, I've been on there dozens of times. That's the financial network. How many other magicians or mentalists have ever been on that network? Zero. It doesn't make sense. That's a serious network. They do finance. Why are they bringing me on? Because I tailor my presentations to the viewer. I don't think about myself. A card trick is about me. Me doing something related to stocks and bonds and dividends and interest rates. That is fascinating the person watching. The same way if I go into a room with football players, I make everything structured on football. So I challenge you that when you make a presentation like that, are you just thinking about you or where can you highlight the attributes of what is this person missing? What's wrong with what their status quo is? What are you missing? Listen to your consumer. Listen to your client. Listen to your audience. They will tell you. They will give you the answers to what you need to give back to them. So many people when they approach someone else, they approach with the following: 'How great am I? How great is my product?' Bum bum bum. It's all about me, me, me. This needs to be benefits-oriented language. All of it should be you. 'I want to make your life easier. I want to make this migration to our platform seamless. What's currently bothering you? I want to know all the things that are your moments of resistance. What's resisting you from saying yes?' And every time you tell me one, I want to be prepared to check that off.
That's so funny you mention that. It's, 'I know you want no downtime. Here's how we can ensure no downtime.' Right? You want to anticipate what they're going to say the same way a mentalist does. But in this case, you're not guessing cards or numbers or names. You're guessing the thoughts of what's keeping them from buying your product. And is that a practice per se? Would you like if this was, you know, if I was pitching to you and you're the CEO of Uber and I want you to work with my agency. Before I go into that meeting, you know, you talked about preparation earlier on, do you write down or just think about the rebuttals or the person that you're contending with and then try and tailor the presentation to a set of sort of ideological ego factors that you believe that person's coming into the room with?
Right? So I write down everything. Literally, one chapter in that book is all about how taking notes has changed my life. So at every show and through every interaction that I ever have with somebody, I write down... I had a show last night, a show the night before. I will write down... I have a shorthand to make it quicker, but I will write down everything that I did, everybody that I met, things that I remember about them. And I will do this immediately when I finish the show. If I might have a meet and greet and photos, the moment it's done, you'll sometimes see me in an Uber in my hotel and I'm writing furiously everything while it's still in my mind and fresh because information is power. And the number one thing that people care about is themselves, their family, their friends, their career, right? All of us are the star of our own movie. You're the star of your movie. I'm the star of my movie. Right here, the person, man, the camera is star. Everybody else is supporting cast. So, think of it this way. If you can remember things about that person, not creepy. What if they told you something? Last night I met somebody. She has two children. They're three and five. Her oldest son absolutely loves this one YouTube star. They live... I know where they live. Like she just shared a lot of details with me that in her mind are kind of like Snapchats. They vanished. They didn't vanish to me. So now that I've written those down, I might see her in a month, in a year, in a decade. Do you know how great that feeling is to somebody when you remember things they told you? It's like winning the lottery. It's literally like you get to do a magic trick like I do, but people give you credit.
I will remember at shows who hired me for the show. Oh, they know this person now. We have a chain. We have a referral link. I might see them again. I guessed their ATM pin code three years ago. It was 6124. I now know that. I bump into them there and I don't have a supernatural memory. Another part of the book is how to improve your memory, which I think is also a huge secret to success in life that people don't realize. We have phones now. We think our phone does it for us. That's not true. And I say to him, I go, 'John, I sure hope you change that pin code from 6124.' He is blown away. Stephen, do you understand? That's not a trick. I wrote it down. There's no... I'll tell you exactly how I did it. All I did was take the time to review it before I got there and made him feel special. And do you know what he's going to do? He's going to talk about that moment for years to come. I've created a memory. If you can create memorable moments for others, they will remember you and they will spread the word to others. And that's how you... whatever you do in life, what you do for others is what's going to eventually propel you to success. I would say give gratuitously. But the more gratuitous you give, there's this funny way in the world where the universe bounces back and the more I do for others, they want to do the same for me.
If you were to make that really practical for me. So you have a shorthand book which you write in every time you meet someone to keep details.
You can do it in your phone. I do it in my phone. So I have calendar entries. Let's be very clear. Let's give you brass tacks. I will write in... if you look at my phone right now, the event last night, set list. I wrote down the name of the host, his wife. They have three children. They have twins. Like everything about this is very fresh in my mind and I'll remember it for a day but then it will kind of dissipate. Which tricks did I do? What happened in the tricks? What were funny moments that were off the cuff? Who did I meet earlier that day? I met somebody and again I'm writing all this stuff down because that information is power. That information, the longer you hold it, it's a coupon with no expiration date. And when you serve it up to that person, in fact it's the reverse. The longer you hold on to it, the more impressive it is. If I met you yesterday and you told me your favorite color is magenta and I say it to you tomorrow. Not that exciting. But in two years if when I meet you and we see a car I go, 'Stephen, that's your favorite color, magenta, isn't it?' Not as a trick, just there in your mind. Dopamine. How did you remember that? You're touched that I remember that about you, right? That's what people care about. People think about again their family, their friends, their faith, their business, all of that. The more that you can make someone else shine, the better it happens to you. Everything is about... my whole act is geared towards making other people look good.
I was thinking about this quite a lot and I actually posted on my LinkedIn this morning about the paradox of small things. And what I said in the post, it's reflecting on Jimmy Fallon. I was on his show this week and he mentioned that we have this tradition at the end of the podcast with the guests. It's a small thing that we do at the end of the show. And the fact that he remembered it and told his audience about it and he said it brought him to tears made me realize that actually the small things in life that we often overlook, like remembering someone's name or as you said their family or some sort of intricate personal detail, they're so powerful because most people don't think they matter. That's it. So when one person in your life remembers a tiny detail about you that kind of matters to you, even your name is something that matters to you, it's so shockingly rare that it's so shockingly powerful because most people think it's so unbelievably petty. And this is I think the paradox of small things, that they're actually in fact really big things.
Well, think about how many small things if you were to look at your life and just have these little roads, these like fork in the road where one path led to this. And I have those moments where in my life where somebody said one thing to me sometimes off-handed, they don't even remember it, and it changed the course of my life. And there's like little moments. I had one. So I worked on Wall Street. I didn't think that you could be a magician or mentalist. It's crazy that it never even occurred to me as an option. But at one point I had... there's two moments, but one of the big ones is I'm doing something for the CFO of my company, Merrill Lynch. He does not know that I work for the company. And I used to do this magic trick with sleight of hand where I take five $1 bills. I hold them, I snap, they turn to hundreds. It's amazing. It's a great trick. And at that moment, he's an Australian guy. And he goes, he goes, he goes, 'We need you working here, mate.' And everyone laughs. And you know, it's a joke I've heard a hundred times, a thousand times. And I go, 'It's funny, sir. I do work here.' And he thought it was a joke. I broke character a little. I go, 'No, no, seriously. I work at 95 Green at your global technology services department.' And he looked at me, he goes, 'What are you doing working here?' And that moment to him, I assume was nothing. It was forgotten moments later. But that moment changed the course of my life because there was like a switch in my mind that was, what am I doing working here? You know, where you kind of like can visualize your future? Is this my path? Is this what I'm going to do forever? Or am I going to decide that you live one life and I'm going to go for it? And I think for a lot of people who are listening to this, I'm not saying to quit your job, but you ask yourself, look in the mirror, is this what I want to be doing? And I think for a lot of people, they might want more. Whether that's their own business, whether it's to climb the rung of a ladder. And it's that moment that somebody can change your life and take action and decide, I'm going to do it, but also formulate a plan, be effective and smart in your execution.
And in your case, you know, leaving Merrill Lynch to go and become a mentalist is quite a leap.
Huge leap. Everyone thought I was crazy. Same with Derren Brown. No one said to me, 'Oh, this is a great idea.' Even though I've got to tell you the truth, most people were very happy for me. But behind closed doors, I think they thought this kid, you know, he's nuts.
You kind of were nuts because statistically, probabilistically, the chance of you becoming a quote-unquote successful mentalist is extremely low.
But I mean, like there's probably like a handful of mentalists that earn a lot of money. I would say it's a very low number.
But here's the question you should ask yourself. Why not you? That like the framing of that is always, of course there's statistics, but why not me? And so I think the way you think in your mind, the voice in your head that tells you that loop determines things. So it's all about setting yourself up for success rather than failure.
How much of being a mentalist is understanding human behavior versus everything?
I don't even know how to answer. It's literally that's... I'm a student of the human, like how people behave.
But the practice of it, because Derren Brown is, I consider him a friend. And if I've learned anything from him, and I do think he's the most incredible person on and off camera, it's that much of his work is making you think the trick is happening here.
But actually, the trick is happening over here. And he's misdirecting you to focus on my left hand and the trick is taking place in my right hand.
That couldn't be more true. That's exactly it. But that is knowing human behavior.
I don't want to say controlling because it sounds very devious, but I'm controlling your attention and your thoughts. I'm guiding you in a certain way to either select what I'd like or to give away something that you feel you have not given away. Should we do a fun example?
Do you know off the top of your head how many episodes you've had of this show?
I think it's roughly 500, I believe.
So, close your eyes. I want to make this a visual game. You're in this room of all different people that you've looked at, you've seen, that you respect, okay? Some of them could have been guests on the show and then you get a tap on the shoulder. You turn around, you look at this person, and it's somebody you've met before.
And they say something to you. They've said it to you before, and you get deja vu, and it's something impactful. It left an impression on you. Is that a fair assessment?
And that inherently right there, boom, that makes you think of another person. I don't know whether... I don't think they mentioned this other person, but something about that takeaway or that thought or that moment of clarity or wisdom made you think of someone else in your life. It was connected to them. This next person, person number two, I'm calling. They jumped over. Open your eyes. When was the last time you had spoken to that person? Person number two.
Today. Okay. Let's lean into this. Think of their first name. Count the letters to yourself. Don't say it.
And somebody you know well, you've spoken to them today. I watched your eyes. You went up, up, up, up. Five letters, isn't it?
You asked me how I do it. You said, 'Do I study people?' You just gave it away yourself. There's five letters to choose from. There's 26 in the alphabet. Pick any letter in this person's first name. Mix them up a little.
