Good evening everybody. Welcome to Lemon Live at Five. Thank you so much. On time. Pretty much on time. So there you go. First order of business, like and thumbs up. It affects the algorithm. You know the score. More people become aware of our conversation, our channel. And it is true. Absolutely true that that happens. Make sure you do that. Let us know where you're streaming from and we're going to get to it because we have a very big show for you. Wait till you see who our guest is. And this is what we're going to talk about. We're going to talk about Jasmine Crockett.
Right. Look, Jasmine Crockett knows how to get attention. She knows how to get people talking. She has been doing it since she was in Congress. As a politician, she knows how to do it. She built a national profile by being loud out there. I don't mean that in a negative way. Confrontational and unapologetic. She pisses off Republicans and sometimes she even pisses off Democrats too, depending on who you ask. Crockett is exactly the kind of fighter American politics needs, or the other side is she is constantly creating controversy that becomes bigger than whatever point she was trying to make. There is almost no middle ground with Jasmine Crockett and now she's done it again. This time it isn't Donald Trump. It isn't some Republican she's going after in a congressional hearing. It's Chris Brown. I'm talking about the singer, the entertainer, Chris Brown.
Because over the weekend, Crockett walked onto the stage at a sold-out AT&T stadium in Arlington, Texas. During Chris Brown and Usher's concert, Texas State Representative Venton Jones was there with her. Crockett honored both artists with congressional record recognition for their contributions to music and culture. And just to be clear, so you know what this means, Crockett did not give them an award that had been voted on by Congress. Members of Congress can submit tributes recognizing people and accomplishments for inclusion in the official congressional record. It is ceremonial, but it still carries the name and prestige of the United States Senate. So, Crockett told the crowd, she said, "Right now, we are experiencing black joy to the highest level." And then she praised Chris Brown, called him a real one, and embraced him on stage. And almost immediately, the reaction exploded on social media and elsewhere.
Usher did not create much controversy. It was a decision to include Chris Brown because for a lot of people, Chris Brown cannot be separated from what happened in 2009 when he pleaded guilty to felony assault after attacking Rihanna. The police photographs are still painful to look at. Not from last night, but they're still painful to look at. He was 19 years old then. Look, Chris Brown is 37 now. And the question of how long someone should be defined by the worst thing that they did, that's a real one. Brown's history did not end with Rihanna's case, though. He's faced additional arrests, lawsuits, and allegations involving violence in the years since. Most recently, he pleaded guilty in Britain in connection with the 2023 nightclub assault. So when people say that he made one terrible mistake as a teenager and deserves a second chance, others point out what came afterwards and they say that that story is more complicated than what people are letting on.
And there is something about a black woman serving in Congress standing beside Chris Brown and calling it black joy that has angered, quite frankly, some black women in particular. They've reached out to me. You should see some of the comments on the thing that we dropped about it and some of the things we hear on the street. Roxane Gay and other critics have asked why Brown's musical success was worthy of congressional recognition when his history includes violence against a black woman. Now, Chris Brown has millions of fans, legions of fans. He sells out stadiums. People have continued buying his music and going to his concerts for years. Crockett was standing before tens of thousands of Texans who were already there to see him. She may believe that his career, his audience, and the fact that he is still performing at that level are part of the culture and deserve to be acknowledged. She's not publicly explained her reasoning since the criticism began. We asked her. We hope she comes on and talks to us about it. She hasn't explained why she did it since the criticism began and her office declined requests for further comment.
But there is another political question hanging over Crockett and it has nothing to do with Chris Brown's music. They want to know where is James Talerico. Some people remember Crockett ran against Talerico for the Democratic nomination for the United States Senate. She lost the primary and endorsed him, but she still has not campaigned alongside him. She has said that she plans to focus on Democratic candidates further down the ballot and she has started doing that. She has. She's been out there working. She recently endorsed Leticia Plame-Plummer for Harris County Judge and political experts in Texas have said that helping candidates in local races could also increase turnout and indirectly help Talerico. So maybe that is her strategy. She thinks that's the best strategy to help win back Texas. That may be her strategy and she has every right to make that decision. Still, critics saw her on stage at AT&T Stadium and they asked the obvious question. You have time to appear before tens of thousands of Texans at a Chris Brown concert, but you have not appeared alongside the Democratic nominee for Senate. That's what they're asking.
Now, being on that stage was itself an enormous political platform. Most of the people in that stadium probably did not spend their Saturday nights at campaign rallies. A lot of them are not watching cable news or reading political newsletters every morning or tuned in to this show every single day. Crockett had walked into a stadium filled with people politicians are always claiming that they want to reach and they heard her. So the question is what did she do with that opportunity? The video that went viral is not about voting. Crockett did not mention Talerico or use the moment to promote the down ballot candidates. She says that she wants to help them, at least in the video that we saw. Now, the message people saw was Chris Brown, congressional recognition, and black joy. So, maybe there was more said that did not make the viral clip. Maybe Crockett believed appearing at the concert was enough to show people that she is present in their community and understands their culture. But once she brought the congressional record onto that stage, the appearance became more than a celebrity meeting or a politician enjoying a concert. It is the prestige of her office formally recognizing both men and people are entitled to question that judgment.
Okay, so these are a few conversations tangled all together that we want to discuss here. So I want to bring in now Jason Lee from Hollywood Unlocked. Jason, I appreciate you joining us. This is a, I think it's a tough conversation and there is nuance here, but for some people it is black and white. So, Jason, by the way, I must say, is a dear friend of Rihanna and so I want to talk to him about all of it. Jason, thanks for joining us. How are you doing? What do you think of Jasmine Crockett giving a congressional recognition to Chris Brown?
I'm a dear friend of yours. I'm a dear friend of Congresswoman Crockett. I'm also an elected official, so I understand all the different nuances. It isn't black and white. I'm black and white, and some people look at me and tell me I'm Spanish. Everything ain't what it looks like. And you know what's so crazy? The next thing they're going to say, "How dare she have her midriff showing?" Because she can't be a baddie and be a congresswoman and be a smart attorney and be somebody who's not running for office. By the way, let's talk about how the Republicans gerrymandered her district to get her out so they can decide what the race looks like. Let's talk about the Democratic party getting behind Talerico behind her back when they should have stayed out of it and let the two fight for the seat and then got behind whoever won. And let's talk about the fact that she shouldn't feel in servitude to anybody when she's not a candidate. She can show up when she wants to show up to support who she believes in. And what I love the most is that this elected official used an opportunity to get on a huge stage in a stadium filled with thousands of people who may or may not even be interested in voting for Talerico or may not even be looking at the politics. And now here we are on the Don Lemon Show, two black gay icons talking about politics in the midst of a pop culture debate.
And as I said though, many of the people that she reached out to, or at least that heard her there, they're not necessarily paying attention to cable or political discussions or whatever, but they were there at that concert and she may have reached some of them. Now, I didn't see, I don't know the whole transcript. I don't know what she said. Do you know if she talked about that? If she encouraged people to vote or whatever at this event? Do you think that she made the most out of this? Because I think in some ways it could be pretty smart for her to be there to talk to, as I said earlier, a group of people that politicians, Democrats say they want to engage with, but they just don't do it.
Yeah. What I mean, I wasn't there. Obviously, I saw my team at Hollywood Unlocked post the clip, the same clip that you're referring to. And the thing about this world that we live in is everybody looks at a clip and then it's headline news, right? Every time that Jasmine has come to my award show, she's come on my show, she's come on your show, anytime she's anywhere, she talks about the issues important to Americans and in particular black Americans too. Every day she's on the hill fighting for democracy, she's doing that. I think that because it's Chris Brown, because sometimes he can be a polarizing individual. Just even in your intro, you mentioned that I'm Rihanna's friend. Me and Rihanna talk every other day. We don't talk about Chris Brown. She has three kids, a man, she's all over the world. She just celebrated one of her kids' birthdays. She ain't thinking about Chris Brown. She forgave him a long time ago. What we're dealing with is a country and a world that doesn't believe a black man is worthy of redemption. The same redemption they give the president who's a criminal in charge every day. And the same redemption that we're all denied every chance that people get. People have moved on, at least in the inner circles of the Chris Brown Rihanna saga, but the world seems to be stuck in a place that they can't get out of.
Well, look, I did Man on the Street that I'm going to play. You know that I do a lot of that because I like to talk to people. I'm going to play that a little bit later, Jason. But, for the most part, especially the men, they were very forgiving and some women, but some of the women were not forgiving. And I don't know if you've seen the comments. And look, the comments are like, you know what, everybody has one, right? Everybody has an opinion about it. But if you look at Roxane Gay and others too, and look, even quite frankly, some people, women on this staff, black women, they're not happy about Jasmine Crockett, I got to be honest, standing next to Chris Brown and giving him some sort of commendation. They feel, especially if they had been abused or they know people who've been abused, they feel it's a slap in the face.
I understand. And I'm somebody who was abused as a child. I'm somebody who was molested. I'm somebody who was shot. I'm somebody who's been victimized with other traumas that have hurt people close to me. But I also have worked through a lot of my trauma. And I think that all of us as individuals and us as a country and all the things need to start working through our trauma. I don't think Jasmine Crockett taking a moment to acknowledge two superstars, regardless of what you feel about their past, they are superstars in an arena with thousands and thousands of voters, to take an opportunity to take advantage of a moment to acknowledge them being in their city, which is driving economic interest, but also allowing them to talk about the importance of, you know, voting or other things that are important to her cause. The real issue here is people are mad that Jasmine is not allowing them to prop her up for the Democratic party and put her to work. It's almost like talking about a prostitute. Get out there and do your job. Get on that corner and go out there and talk to them voters.
I was like, where is Jason going with this?
I'm going to tell you, she's a congresswoman and she ain't nobody's hoe. And I'm sorry, the fact that they expect to pimp her out whenever they want. Nobody's saying, "Why isn't Barack Obama out there knocking on doors? Where's Michelle Obama? Where's all these other people?" She ran for a seat. She lost the primary. And so her job technically is done. Anything she does beyond that is her choosing to do it for the Democratic party.
Okay, I feel you on that. And she is a grown ass woman. She can make her own decisions. But traditionally in politics, people will, you know, they'll concede. I call you, I endorse you, whatever. Congratulations. And then at least they might make a tacit, you know, maybe a mild effort to campaign for you. Maybe they look, what's his name? Ted Cruz did phone banks for Donald Trump and Donald Trump said that, you know, he had something to do with Kennedy's death and called his wife ugly. You know what I'm saying? There are things that people expect in politics and there's, I mean, I think it's right to ask why hasn't she been seen with Talerico? And if her answer is, "That ain't my job." That is her job. That ain't her job.
Don. Don. Traditionally, you see a reporter on the carpet. You say, "Hi, how you doing? What you wearing? Who you looking to see tonight?" It ain't tradition that you go in the party and find out that they got roped up by the police and arrested by the president. That happened to you. Tradition is out the door. We live in a world right now where the president tore down the East Wing, bombed kids in schools in Iran, stole a president and his wife out of his sleep, went to war and spent billions of dollars, changed the Gulf of Mexico to Gulf of America, told Canada that they were the 51st state, and now saying what? I am not trying to hear nothing about tradition. Jasmine Crockett do what the hell she want to do. By the way, I love the little cinch waist and I love the fact that she had her face beat. And you know what? What black women are really tired of more than anything, more black women are tired of people telling the black woman that it's her job to keep the house moving no matter what the sorry ass man they got at home does to them. The Democrats did Jasmine wrong. What the Democrats should have done when the Republicans gerrymandered her out of her seat, what they should have done is double down on her and double down on a black woman. But you know what they're never going to do in this country? Double down on a black woman. We saw what they did to Kamala. We can go on and on and on. So, I don't blame her for doing what she needed to do because we wouldn't be talking about Jasmine Crockett right now or voting in Texas. By the way, vote for Talerico even if Jasmine don't come to work to tell you to do it. Who cares? Jasmine doing what Jasmine want to do. Not mad at her.
Okay. So, that was easy for you to do. You can say that, right? So, the thing that folks are going to say, and again, they're going to say if Talerico loses, well, Jasmine didn't, but and it ain't her fault, right? But what is on the line right now when you said that traditional things are out the door, what is on the line is the battle for the heart, the soul, the democracy in this country. And I think everyone, regardless of where you stand, of what you ran for, should be rooting for the person in Texas to win because what happens if they don't? Then we're stuck in this possibly for 10 more years. And I can't take much more of it. So, and so I think people are just like, "So, everybody, please do what the Republicans do. Get on board and get the Democrats in office. Do whatever the hell you can."
I understand. And you know what? Oh, and you know, as you were talking, I go, "Oh, you know, Don, because Don, you and I are going to be at CBC this week and we're going to be talking to a bunch of folks about the importance of the black vote and that." But the Democrats have to start understanding that they're playing chess and Donald Trump is playing battleship. This is a whole different game right now. And the Democrats got to do a better job of not cannibalizing their own. Jasmine Crockett is a star in the Democratic party. What she has been able to do in galvanizing young people, people of color, women, the bad beat built, bleached blonde. She is somebody who has taken a moment and turned it into a movement. And what did they do? They said, "Nah, you're not enough. We going to get behind the white boy and we're going to push the white boy across the finish line. And guess what? You're going to be a good old Mammy and you going to back him up if he gets in." They're going to talk about her whether he wins or whether she loses. It's all going to be her fault because everything always falls on the black woman right now.
It's not going to be her fault. They're going to talk, but it's not going to be her fault.
They are going to blame her. They're not going to credit her if she gets behind him and he wins. And they're going to blame her if she doesn't get behind him and he loses. Either way, she can't win. And it's nobody's fault but the Democrats because they allowed what happened to her in Texas to happen. The one thing the Republicans do, Don, better than the Democrats right now is they fight for theirs. They will fight, lie, steal, kill, destroy for their party.
That's true. There you go.
Yeah. But you know what they do though? Even the people they hated. Now you and I are both old enough to remember 2016 when every single Republican said, "Donald Trump can't be our nominee. I can't stand him." Including Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio and everybody. Kellyanne Conway who ran his campaign said we cannot have this man. She was the super PAC leader for Ted Cruz. She said he built his business on the backs of poor people. We can't stand him. Kayleigh, JD Vance...
JD Vance, Hitler, right? What is her name? Kayleigh McEnany was a never-Trumper of sorts before she became a supporter of Trump and on and on and on. And guess what they all did? Kellyanne ended up being his campaign manager helping him to win.
Ted Cruz is answering phones and carrying his water.
And they hated him. He kicked their asses. And not only did he kick their asses, he talked about them. He said his wife was ugly. But they still said both...
I'm going to tell you what they do. I'm going to tell you what they do. They come out that Oval Office wiping their mouth like Monica Lewinsky every Tuesday. And you know what? That's why their party's going to lose. That's why their party's going to lose. And you know what? That's why we're up here talking about a losing failing party. And you know what? I refuse to take an invite to the crazy house. All of this is nuts, you know. And so, yeah, when I see them play it back, you know, and all of them continue to get richer. You know what? I'm really mad about the fact that Barack Obama, Barack Obama, Barack Obama. By the way, I saw Monica Lewinsky at lunch one day eating a salad and I was just hoping she wasn't having ranch. But look, here's the deal. At the end of the day, Don, Barack Obama could have never done any of this.
As your dog runs out, my dog is like, Jason is off the chain today.
Now, think about it. Think about Barack Obama. This is what this whole conversation is about for me is lifting the veil of racism in America. Right? If the veil was ever availing down the East Wing, putting horrible comments under pictures of presidents in the White House, desecrating the image of our country around the world. This is what this party has done. So, we're talking about Jasmine Crockett. The real issue here is people just want to have this eternal disdain for Chris Brown. He's a superstar. He is talented and he is worthy of redemption. And everybody, including Rihanna, that everybody says they care about has moved on. You know, the other thing I think about is every time they bring up her name in this conversation, what aren't you thinking about how you're revictimizing somebody who survived a traumatic experience? Why are you bringing up her trauma for your own entertainment?
You know what we didn't do today? We had someone had the picture of her right after and I'm like we're not putting that up there because we don't want to retraumatize her. If you want to, because Chris Brown has had the incident in the UK or whatever. All right. Put up a mug shot of him that happened.
Put up his housekeeper whose dog just chewed her face up and got all that money. There's other images out there if you want to, but why are you revictimizing Rihanna? Let that woman live in peace. She's had three kids, a man, a successful career. She even performed at the Super Bowl, pregnant and all, flying over the crowd. But you're going to bring up her image because it's really that fake rage, that fake pain that people want to feel in order to continue to create a discussion for attention. Nah, we're not doing that. And you know what? Chris Brown's a star. Jasmine Crockett is a star. You're a star. I'm a star. Get out and vote. Get rid of the Republicans. And Democrats, you still got to do your job when you get back in control because you guys have been failing the party, too.
There's a message that when you and I talked today that I want to get across, but I know if you can just give me just a minute. I want to play this for you, Jason. I know I'm going to try to have you off as close to the right time as possible, but please just be understanding of this. So, I want to play this because I want you to hear the reaction and then I want folks to hear what you said to me earlier. Okay, here's a reaction from the street.
Do you know who Chris Brown is?
Chris Brown? Hell yeah. Who don't know who Chris Brown is? Woman beater.
He beat women, do he not?
Boy, it's the wrong Chris Brown.
No, it's a Chris Brown. That was back in 2009.
Yeah, that was a minute ago and we forgave him for it. But yeah, he beat up girls.
Yeah, Rihanna.
So, he just got a recognition from Congress. What do you think of that?
Uh, now you know what? I can't separate the man from the artist. He is a great artist. He is talented as I'm sorry if I can't curse y'all, but uh good.
Uh he is talented. I mean, yeah. I mean, yeah, artistry. Yeah, for sure. That's the right move.
He just got locked up in like UK or somewhere for throwing a bottle at somebody.
Yeah. At what point is redemption where you stop bringing up the past for everybody?
When you've seen that their actions, it goes like this for everybody. When you accept an apology, you accept an apology for changed actions. He has shown changed actions. We haven't heard him in the media again about no domestic violence in how many years? He was really young back then. That's when he first came out. He's almost 40 now. I think we need to drop it.
But he has done stuff. I mean he's in the cases.
Everybody, exactly, everybody got cases. My daughters love Chris Brown.
Do you know Jasmine Crockett, the congresswoman?
Okay. So she gave Chris Brown congressional recognition this weekend. And what do you think of that?
Uh Chris Brown deserve it. Don't you think? He's a very good entertainer. You know, a little trouble some years ago with the what's her name? Rihanna.
But he's a good kid. I think he's good. He deserve it.
Do you think that there is a double standard between, you know, how white guys or black guys or white people get redeemed?
Absolutely. I mean, I think the black community gets crucified and nailed on the cross for every single thing while meanwhile we turn our cheek or forget that our president is a racist, does misogynistic things and we overlooked that and put him in office to run the country. So, where do we draw the line really?
You heard that. And let me play this before you answer. Let me play this. This is what you were talking about. This is a couple years ago. This is Rihanna and Chris Brown. Just so you know, when you said you're friends with Rihanna, obviously, and she's moved on. You can go ahead and roll it, Andy. But this is Rihanna in the white walking across. She goes over, she hugs Chris Brown. Chris Brown sits down. She hugs some other folks with him. Since she gives him another little like kind of tap, she's moved on and forgiven him.
They've done a song together. They have moved on. She is living her best life and he is on a worldwide tour with another huge superstar Usher right now, living out his dream, doing a phenomenal job. I love that you talk to all those different black people because it really is important to me that we hear most of those people. Well, three out of four said, "Let's move on. Let's talk about the first guy, cuz he's reminiscent of the real issues in America." One, he ain't got no real dental plan. Obamacare is under attack by the Republicans. You could look at the separation in his teeth and know that he don't know where to go and get those things fixed. That's number one. Number two, his intellect and how he spoke. Education's under attack. He hired a woman from WWE to be over our Department of Education. Obviously, he's a failed product of our public school system. And I think that when you talk to certain people, everybody in the world has an opinion. But it was that second person you spoke to, that black woman, that said it great. He ain't had a domestic violence situation in a long time and allow the man redemption and to move on as a black man. I think of the time that when I chose to honor Jonathan Majors at the Impact Awards and people lost their mind, my agency, everybody was all up in arms and I asked them the question. I said, "When you get off the call, go and have a meeting with the team and answer this question. When are black men, when are black people worthy of redemption?" And then call me back. They didn't call me back. And we saw how that played out. So yeah, you know, I think that this fake rage for a woman that is forgiven, who's moved on with her life, for a man who's tried to move on with his life is just about people rage baiting each other, dealing with their own trauma, and refusing to acknowledge that Chris Brown is still, in spite of all the hate, a superstar.
Okay, one more thing. Does he make it harder from keeping it going?
Like for having cases? Like I said, I should know.
Yeah. Well, I mean, damn, you're like the biggest criminal on this show right now between you and I. Like, hell, I'm in office. You actually have a court date, Don. The fact that the president attacked you. I was telling somebody the other day, this is the most amazing, beautiful gift for you to get arrested by the president of the United States. I wish I was there with you. We could have been like Bonnie and Clyde. Anyway, um, okay.
More like Thelma and Louise, but go on.
Louise. Yeah, that's right. Okay. Here's the deal. Does it make it harder? But think about this, right? This kid who I knew Chris when he was like 18 years old and watched him before, after, and all the things the world reminded him every day, you ain't going to be, you're not deserving, you're this, you're that. And I can't, with my own millions of followers, it's one thing to be that young in the middle of your developmental stage to be a superstar and to be the poster child of every abuser in the world and reminded every day that you're not worthy of anything and then fall into drugs and then have the wrong people around you and all the things. I think about his mother Joyce who I used to go to lunch with who was fighting for her son's life, who was fighting to save her son. I think about a person who lost the love of his life. Yeah, he's had trauma that he's had to deal with. But when I see him performing right now, Don, I actually think about like, yo, this is the Chris Brown who was emotional performing the Michael Jackson tribute, who looked up to somebody that he wanted to be at some point, and because life happened and mistakes that he made, he's not been able to achieve that level of superstardom yet. And I just think that he should be given an opportunity to live out the best years of his life. And back to Jasmine though, Jasmine is a badass congresswoman and I love the fact that she is using her platform to mix politics and pop culture.
Have you, I texted her this morning, she texted back and...
We talked about you. We talked about you this morning.
Don, you know damn well, Don. Don, you know damn well when you and I talked, I called her first thing. I said, "Are you mad at Don?" She said, "I love Don." No, she had seen the text. And then when she saw the text and then obviously, you know, I got the receipt. I said, "Send me the message so I can know the conversation." Yeah. I mean, no, she's surprised at the reaction, but I think her response was appropriate. She was like, "Yo, I took the biggest stage in my city to talk about the importance of the election and the things that she talked about the moment."
Does she understand some of the reaction at all? Does she understand some of the anger and why some people would feel? Cuz I would understand. And I would say, I understand why people feel that way. I get it. But here's why I did it. Do you know what I'm saying? And because it's not, I don't think everything is black and white. And that's the message that we talked about. But go on. I'll let you go ahead and finish your...
Yeah. No, we didn't talk about acknowledging people's frustration. I think people, voters, people in general have the right to feel however they feel. I think it's all about context. It's not like her and her girls went out for a drink and then popped up on the stage with Chris Brown letting Usher put cherries in her mouth. I think we have to put context around this, right? When you have a tour like that roll in your city, there's such an economic stimulus to your city that that is an important thing to acknowledge and then on top of that to be able to take the stage and to share a message with voters when nobody else can do that. Talerico wasn't there. You know, where was he at? Knocking on doors, phone banking, I don't know. But we're not talking about him. We're talking about her because she's that girl. And if everybody wanted to talk about her, they should have talked about how to keep her in her district and to help her get across the finish line instead of serving up Daddy Trump and whoever he thought would be the better person to beat with the Republican party.
