CEOInterviews.AI
Start App

Hitler's last days in the bunker | Norman Ohler and Lex Fridman

📅 Sep 23, 2025 Lex Clips 10 MIN 235448 VIEWS 24 SEGMENTS · 2 SPEAKERS
Lex Fridman Podcast full episode:    • Norman Ohler: Hitler, Nazis, Drugs, WW2, B...   Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/cv928... See below for guest bio, links, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc. GUEST BIO: Norman Ohler is a historian and author of "Blitzed: Drugs in the Third Reich," a book that investigates the role of psychoactive drugs, particularly stimulants such as methamphetamine, in the military history of World War II. It is a book that two legendary historians Ian Kershaw and Antony Beevor give very high praise...

Questions asked in this interview

4
  1. 0:02What do we know about the very end?
  2. 3:24Maybe he's like, he didn't do his taxes for so long because he always had to treat Hitler, and then he thinks like, 'No, what am I going to do?
  3. 5:04Did somebody try to talk to Hitler about this? Like, what about Eva Braun?
  4. 7:23What do we know about Hitler's sex life? It's like not known, right?
Interviewer 0:02 ↗
What do we know about the very end? Hitler in the bunker, the moments, the days, the weeks, the months leading up to the suicide, all those kinds of things.
Norman Ohler 0:15 ↗
It's quite well documented because people at the time were keeping diaries and writing about it, writing about the experiences. Also, Morell wrote quite a bit about what happened in the bunker. One thing that changed was that Eukodal was not available anymore. So the drug that Hitler actually had become physically addicted to was suddenly not available anymore. This had to do with the bombardment of the Merck company, the factory, in December 1944. British bombers destroyed the production facilities.
And there's a report of Morell, the overweight person, riding on a motorcycle through bombed-out Berlin from pharmacy to pharmacy, basically going into the pharmacy trying to score Eukodal, and he couldn't find it anymore. It was nowhere to be found. And that's when Hitler goes into withdrawal.
Interviewer 1:18 ↗
What I find surprising is that he didn't use another opioid, because morphine was available all the way till the end, but he never kind of made that switch then.
Norman Ohler 1:27 ↗
Like he doesn't also, he didn't realize for a long time that he becomes physically dependent on a drug, that he becomes a drug addict. But this realization happens in the last weeks in the bunker, because Goebbels, he understood it, and Goebbels wanted that bedroom, the second bedroom. So he said to Hitler, 'Do you understand what's going on, that Morell turns you into a drug addict?' And he does, like, and at one point he realized what Goebbels is saying is true because he felt the withdrawal. He was shaking and he felt like... and Morell is like giving him weird stuff in the end, like one time he gives him harmine, which is an MAO inhibitor, which is part of ayahuasca actually, because he still had that in his doctor's bag. It hadn't been used yet. So he gives him that, which also creates some kind of a weird high, but you know, Hitler at one point realizes really what's going on.
This is late April, so very late in the game. And there's a few reports of what actually happens. Like some say that Morell has to kneel in front of him and that Hitler puts a gun on his head and says, 'You've been making me addicted to opioids. Get the hell out of the bunker.' For sure, he fires him that day, and Morell is described as being in tears like leaving the bunker. He gets one of the last planes out of Berlin. He has a research lab in the south of Bavaria close to the Berghof, and he makes like one of the last or the last plane out of Berlin.
Interviewer 3:05 ↗
He survives.
Norman Ohler 3:06 ↗
Yeah. And he goes to this research lab, and this is like May 2nd, 1945. He has like a little apartment in his research lab. His wife is still in Berlin. He's like all alone, and he starts doing his taxes, and that kind of shows you that he was probably insane at that point. You know, he's just totally out of touch.
Interviewer 3:24 ↗
Why would you do your taxes? Maybe he was bored, you know? Maybe he's like, he didn't do his taxes for so long because he always had to treat Hitler, and then he thinks like, 'No, what am I going to do? You know, I'm just going to do my... at least I'm going to do my taxes now.' Very German thing to do.
Norman Ohler 3:37 ↗
He's just a strange character. I mean, you tell this... I would put that in the movie for sure. Him doing his taxes.
Interviewer 3:43 ↗
That's how the movie ends.
Norman Ohler 3:45 ↗
Well, then the Americans move into Bavaria, liberate Bavaria from National Socialism, which was a great job they did there. And so I'm also thankful not only to the Red Army, but also to the American forces. Really very thankful that they... because National Socialism was hard to beat. It was a beast, you know. It was hard to beat. So they capture Morell and they interrogate him, and he actually lives for another two years in American custody in Germany in a military prison. And after these two years, his health's really bad. He has heart problems, and the Americans dump him in front of the Munich train station in a much too small kind of uniform jacket, like probably an American uniform. And he's like lying on the pavement in front of the train station, and a half-Jewish nurse walks around there, finds him, and he says, 'I'm like...' it's really like in a movie, 'I was the personal physician of the Führer.' She's like, this is 1947, Germany's in ruins, and she brings him to a hospital. His wife comes from Berlin for the last time. They meet in the hospital at Tegernsee, a beautiful lake in Bavaria, and then he dies. So that was the end of Morell. So we know pretty much what happens in the end.
Interviewer 5:04 ↗
Did somebody try to talk to Hitler about this? Like, what about Eva Braun? Has anybody close to him tried to talk about... well, did... well, that at the very end, but you would imagine maybe the generals or friends or inner circle. I mean, the reason I mentioned Eva is because, you know, like personal and people close to him.

11 more exchanges in this transcript

Sign in free to read the rest of this interview. No card required.

Sign in to read the full transcript

Cite this transcript

APA, MLA, BibTeX
APA

Ohler, N. (2025, September 23). Hitler's last days in the bunker | Norman Ohler and Lex Fridman [Interview transcript]. Lex Clips. CEOInterviews.AI. https://ceointerviews.ai/interview/3054896/

MLA

Norman Ohler. "Hitler's last days in the bunker | Norman Ohler and Lex Fridman." Lex Clips, 23 Sep. 2025. Transcript, CEOInterviews.AI, https://ceointerviews.ai/interview/3054896/.

BibTeX
@misc{ohler2025_3054896,
  author       = {Norman Ohler},
  title        = {Hitler's last days in the bunker | Norman Ohler and Lex Fridman},
  howpublished = {Interview transcript, Lex Clips. CEOInterviews.AI},
  year         = {2025},
  month        = {sep},
  url          = {https://ceointerviews.ai/interview/3054896/},
  note         = {Speaker-attributed transcript with timestamps}
}