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Hitler's cocaine addiction after assassination attempt | Norman Ohler and Lex Fridman

📅 Sep 25, 2025 Lex Clips 9 MIN 79987 VIEWS 42 SEGMENTS · 2 SPEAKERS
Lex Fridman Podcast full episode:    • Norman Ohler: Hitler, Nazis, Drugs, WW2, B...   Thank you for listening ❤ Check out our sponsors: https://lexfridman.com/sponsors/cv927... See below for guest bio, links, and to give feedback, submit questions, contact Lex, etc. GUEST BIO: Norman Ohler is a historian and author of "Blitzed: Drugs in the Third Reich," a book that investigates the role of psychoactive drugs, particularly stimulants such as methamphetamine, in the military history of World War II. It is a book that two legendary historians Ian Kershaw and Antony Beevor give very high praise...

Questions asked in this interview

3
  1. 0:03Why didn't he get into the cocaine?
  2. 5:51So combining cocaine and heroin, huh?
  3. 6:56You mean for the entire Blitzed story or?
Norman Ohler 0:02 ↗
The army was really meth-ed up. That's how you could sum it up briefly.
Interviewer 0:03 ↗
He did try cocaine. Why didn't he get into the cocaine?
Norman Ohler 0:07 ↗
He started cocaine after the bomb attack by Stauffenberg on July 20th, 1944. When this bomb went off, which actually killed a few people in the room, this was during a military briefing. Stauffenberg put a bag with explosives under the table, and the table actually saved Hitler's life because it was a good German quality oak table. So the table was so stable that the bomb explosion kind of just blew up the table, but Hitler behind the table was protected by this table.
Interviewer 0:37 ↗
Yeah, this is the closest assassination attempt, probably.
Norman Ohler 0:41 ↗
Yeah. I mean, it's very weird that it didn't succeed because he had the bomb. He put it next to Hitler. He took out some of the explosives before he went into the room. This is one of the big mysteries. Why did Stauffenberg take out some of the explosives? There's no explanation for it. But Hitler survived, but he was quite injured, which Nazi propaganda always denied. They always said the Führer was miraculously unharmed. But he was quite harmed. There were over a hundred splinters from the wood everywhere. His eardrums were blown, which was, you know, it's quite an injury, I guess. You know, he was bleeding internally, and he was shell-shocked basically. And then a new doctor comes in. His name is Keesing. Because Morell was not a... In Germany we have, well, I guess worldwide, it's the ear, nose and throat specialist, right? So an ear, nose and throat specialist from the German army called Dr. Keesing, he was ordered to come into headquarters after the bomb attack to treat Hitler's blown eardrums. And Keesing gave Hitler cocaine, because cocaine at the time was being... You know, it was used. It was not Schedule 1, you know. It had the effect that it would numb the pain, and you could use it, you would put it on a certain place where you had the pain and then it would numb that area. But Hitler had never taken cocaine before, but he got very interested in it. And Keesing writes a meticulous report about his experiences with Hitler. Alone, that report is really fun to read. It's about a 15-page report that he did for American military after the war. When he was being interrogated by American military, he described what happened with Hitler and him. And he realized that Hitler really liked the cocaine, and then he started saying, "Now give it in the nose now," and then it was a liquid that he could apply with a dab into the nose. It wasn't cocaine powder, but he could-
Interviewer 2:51 ↗
It was liquefied. Yeah, interesting.
Norman Ohler 2:53 ↗
Liquefied cocaine. And Hitler loved it, and he's just saying things like, "Finally, I can think clear again." He had this cocaine rush, which is a rush of superiority. It's a dangerous drug because you think you know more than the other. It's not a very humble drug, you know. It just increases the ego. And that actually he liked that because that was after the bomb attack, he thought everyone was a traitor. He didn't feel safe anymore in his own bunker, you know. And he was like, "Nazis..." The right wing is always paranoid. "Who's the enemy? They're behind us. They're stabbing us in the back." Hitler was this type of person. So the cocaine kind of stabilized him, and Keesing realized that this guy is a drug guy. He didn't know. He came in, he saw the Führer for the first time. He was in awe. And a drug wreck was approaching him. And as soon as he had some cocaine in his system—this was the summer of '44—he had already taken a lot of opioids and a lot of drugs. So he, and a lot of these dubious hormonal concoctions which led to autoimmune diseases in Hitler, maybe he even had Parkinson's. Morell basically turned him into a physical wreck. Keesing also writes about this, like he's trembling before he goes into the room for the first time where the Führer is. And then there's like an old guy in a blue kind of pajama, kind of coming up to him and shaking his hand. "That's the Führer," you know. And Keesing is totally shocked because, you know, the destiny of the German nation, the whole of Europe, everything is like—hangs on this guy, you know. And then whenever he takes cocaine, he's a little bit better. But the cocaine had the problem that Keesing was more of a, at least later in his discussions with the U.S. military, he described himself as a conscientious guy. He's like, "I became... I had problems giving Hitler more cocaine." And-
Interviewer 4:54 ↗
Yeah, and I'm sure Hitler could have sensed that.
Norman Ohler 4:57 ↗
And then Morell started disliking Keesing because Hitler spent more time with Keesing than with him. And there was this—this, what I call the doctor's war ensued. 'Cause Keesing then tried to get rid of Morell because Keesing could suddenly see that Hitler was receiving a lot of drugs. He was taking cocaine with Keesing. Keesing left the room. Then Morell would come in and give him Eukodal opioid intravenously, which is the speedball effect. Cocaine and an opioid, you know, at the same time. That's like, that creates a really crazy high. But that's a high that's not stable anymore, you know. That's a high that you... That's like at the end of your drug career. You take the speedball.
Interviewer 5:44 ↗
So a speedball is a combination of a stimulant—
Norman Ohler 5:46 ↗
Right.
Interviewer 5:47 ↗
—and a depressant. Cocaine and heroin.
Norman Ohler 5:49 ↗
Opioids are depressants.
Interviewer 5:51 ↗
Yeah. So combining cocaine and heroin, huh? Wow... Oh.
Norman Ohler 5:57 ↗
I've never had a speedball, but I think it's the most hardcore drug experience you can have, you know. And Hitler had this in the summer of 1944 for quite some time. And then the doctors really fought for influence over Hitler. And Keesing teamed up with Himmler, head of the SS, and basically said to Himmler, "This Morell guy..." And Himmler was really suspicious of Morell obviously, because Morell was spending so much time with Hitler. There's no control. Himmler was a control freak. "What is he actually giving to the Führer? The Führer doesn't look good anymore." So Keesing was trying to get Morell out. Maybe because he wanted Hitler to have better health. Maybe he wanted to have the job himself. He certainly tried to get rid of Morell, and it came to like, a high noon situation, like the duel between the two doctors. It's, by the way, why I think it's completely insane that Hollywood hasn't bought the rights yet. Alone, this doctor's war.
Interviewer 6:56 ↗
You mean for the entire Blitzed story or?
Norman Ohler 6:58 ↗
Yeah, of course.
Interviewer 6:59 ↗
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's really... I mean, some of the greatest movies... I mean, like, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.
Norman Ohler 7:05 ↗
You can do a drug movie on the Nazis.
Interviewer 7:08 ↗
You know, one of my favorite movies, probably Downfall, which is Hitler in the bunker, which does, I guess... Does Downfall have a drug—
Norman Ohler 7:15 ↗
No.

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APA

Ohler, N. (2025, September 25). Hitler's cocaine addiction after assassination attempt | Norman Ohler and Lex Fridman [Interview transcript]. Lex Clips. CEOInterviews.AI. https://ceointerviews.ai/interview/3054902/

MLA

Norman Ohler. "Hitler's cocaine addiction after assassination attempt | Norman Ohler and Lex Fridman." Lex Clips, 25 Sep. 2025. Transcript, CEOInterviews.AI, https://ceointerviews.ai/interview/3054902/.

BibTeX
@misc{ohler2025_3054902,
  author       = {Norman Ohler},
  title        = {Hitler's cocaine addiction after assassination attempt | Norman Ohler and Lex Fridman},
  howpublished = {Interview transcript, Lex Clips. CEOInterviews.AI},
  year         = {2025},
  month        = {sep},
  url          = {https://ceointerviews.ai/interview/3054902/},
  note         = {Speaker-attributed transcript with timestamps}
}